Starting a club

[Casey Wilson]

Hi all,

Which of these myriad rec.aviation.nnnn forums is best for questions (and
answers) about starting up a flying club?

Casey

[Jim]

If you're a member, AOPA.org has info on starting a club in there membership
area under airplane ownership.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> Which of these myriad rec.aviation.nnnn forums is best for questions
(and
> answers) about starting up a flying club?
>
> Casey
>
>

[Casey Wilson]

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> If you're a member, AOPA.org has info on starting a club in there
membership
> area under airplane ownership.
> --

Yeah, got that. I was sort of hoping to dialogue with some real folks
out here and get a variety of responses.

[Jim]

..owning may be better than .piloting
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If you're a member, AOPA.org has info on starting a club in there
> membership
> > area under airplane ownership.
> > --
>
> Yeah, got that. I was sort of hoping to dialogue with some real folks
> out here and get a variety of responses.
>
>

[Paul Folbrecht]

Well, if you .own you can .pilot all you want.

Jim wrote:
> .owning may be better than .piloting

[Robert M. Gary]

I was involved in an effort to start a club from the remains of one
that died. I had a HUGE advantage in that I had a list of 100 members
of the old club to call on. However, it still didn't work out well. I
wanted to buy the Aerobatic plane of the old club and have it in the
club. I already own a Mooney so I wasn't looking for a daily flyer.
However, I found that renters (or at least the group of these guys)
are really, really, really cheap *******s. I heard comments like, "We
should be able to operate the Decathlon for $40/hr". Christ, you can't
operate a J-3 for $40/hr. When the time came to put up, I figured 15
or so people could buy in for $2k each (the old club was asking $30K
for theirs and it was in good shape with a near new engine, but fixed
prop). Hell, I spend more than that in gas for my Mooney a year.
However, the cheap *******s never come up with any money. In the end I
decided I'd be better off putting up around $10K and just getting some
partners (some of my best aviation experiences have been with
partners, its a wonderful way to own an airplane). In the end, I think
most people that are willing to help start a club really want a bunch
of cheap piece of crap Cessna 172s that they think they can operate
cheaper than an FBO. (an FBO usually has a huge advantage since they
are usually able to average 100/hrs a month per Cessna).


-Robert



"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message >...
> Hi all,
>
> Which of these myriad rec.aviation.nnnn forums is best for questions (and
> answers) about starting up a flying club?
>
> Casey

[R.Hubbell]

On 1 Feb 2004 10:06:41 -0800 (Robert M. Gary) wrote:

> I was involved in an effort to start a club from the remains of one
> that died. I had a HUGE advantage in that I had a list of 100 members


The fatal flaw? Using the same list of members from the failed club.
Seriously you'd have been better off starting fresh. The failed-100
were the cause of the failure so it was probably not an HUGE advantage.
More like a HUGE anchor.


FBO rentals are usually scary. Clubs if run properly are better
maintained.

Look at the http://wsvfc.org



R. Hubbell


> of the old club to call on. However, it still didn't work out well. I
> wanted to buy the Aerobatic plane of the old club and have it in the
> club. I already own a Mooney so I wasn't looking for a daily flyer.
> However, I found that renters (or at least the group of these guys)
> are really, really, really cheap *******s. I heard comments like, "We
> should be able to operate the Decathlon for $40/hr". Christ, you can't
> operate a J-3 for $40/hr. When the time came to put up, I figured 15
> or so people could buy in for $2k each (the old club was asking $30K
> for theirs and it was in good shape with a near new engine, but fixed
> prop). Hell, I spend more than that in gas for my Mooney a year.
> However, the cheap *******s never come up with any money. In the end I
> decided I'd be better off putting up around $10K and just getting some
> partners (some of my best aviation experiences have been with
> partners, its a wonderful way to own an airplane). In the end, I think
> most people that are willing to help start a club really want a bunch
> of cheap piece of crap Cessna 172s that they think they can operate
> cheaper than an FBO. (an FBO usually has a huge advantage since they
> are usually able to average 100/hrs a month per Cessna).
>
>
> -Robert
>
>
>
> "Casey Wilson" > wrote in message >...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Which of these myriad rec.aviation.nnnn forums is best for questions (and
> > answers) about starting up a flying club?
> >
> > Casey

[Andrew Gideon]

R.Hubbell wrote:

> FBO rentals are usually scary. Clubs if run properly are better
> maintained.

This is not necessarily correct. For one thing, clubs aren't required to do
the 100 hour; rentals are.

But beyond that, there's a mentality to be found at either an FBO or a club.
Either can let things slide, or not.

I've seen fairly dramatic differences between FBOs. One where the gear was
something I'd never take into IFR (and, in some cases, non-local VFR), and
another where I'd no concerns at all.

I expect that the same diversity exists in clubs, but I lack the experience
of this myself. The club to which I belong does a good job, I think, but
for some items deemed too small to warrant taking a plane "off the line"
for unexpected maintenance. I haven't always agreed with that decision,
but I do understand that my priorities may be different than others'. The
people responsible for maintenance have to try to find the proper balance
between the priorities of all the members.

- Andrew

[Casey Wilson]

"R.Hubbell" > wrote in message
...
> On 1 Feb 2004 10:06:41 -0800 (Robert M. Gary) wrote:
>
> > I was involved in an effort to start a club from the remains of one
> > that died. I had a HUGE advantage in that I had a list of 100 members
>
>
> The fatal flaw? Using the same list of members from the failed club.
> Seriously you'd have been better off starting fresh. The failed-100
> were the cause of the failure so it was probably not an HUGE advantage.
> More like a HUGE anchor.
>
>
> FBO rentals are usually scary. Clubs if run properly are better
> maintained.
>
> Look at the http://wsvfc.org

Hi,

My firewall freaks out for some reason and won't let me go to the
above URL. What is the gist of the information on WSVFC?
For the moment, we are starting from scratch. There is no active FBO
at KIYK, Inyokern, California, nor is their an active club. The few
co-ownerships and partnerships are closed tight and the only rental aircraft
is a tired C-150.
The unanimous conclusion (there are three of us starting this out) is
the minimum aircraft is a Cessna 182 with a comprehensive IFR panel
including GPS. I'm lobbying for an autopilot but I may have to relinquish
that wish for an older model airplane to keep the buy-in within range. Seven
members would probably be our top number.
We would like to buy the airplane outright to keep from paying
financinc -- although we heard we could get a 6-3/4% loan up to $50,000 for
80% of the purchase price. I haven't shopped so I don't know if that is a
good rate. You tell me.

Casey

[R.Hubbell]

I responded over in r.a.o. just because I'm old fashined I guess.
Something about trying to maintain a reasonable net attitude and
adhere to the charters of these fine groups that are read by so
many all over the world.


R. Hubbell