Importing a used glider from Europe?

[Terry Pitts]

All,

I've been looking at the adds at Wings and Wheels for the last year. I've often looked at ads here in Europe and thought, "Why can't I find this XYZ be in the US?" The sudden "ah ha!" moment came yesterday as I was looking at ads on Tim's website and saw a glider with German registration.

I've looked at the FAA's website. From a registration perspective it doesn't look awful, but what are the issues/implications associated with bringing a glider from Europe to the US? I realize I have to find a way to ship it. Instruments need to be converted to knots, feet, etc.

The basic target would be an older club class glider (LS1, DG100, Cirrus, etc.) in the low to mid teens range. That seems do able in Germany. Then add shipping. Etc.

It's hard to tell without taking some notes and doing some math, but it looks like comparable gliders are cheaper in Europe than in the US. Is that a supply and demand thing - lots more gliders here than in the US? If prices are higher in the US for a comparable aircraft, maybe I could fly one for a few years and break even?

I know Winter and other companies make instruments for the metric and US markets. Is it easy to get the faces changed? Worth doing some sort of maintenance at the same time?

Is it worth the effort?

Lots of questions, I know. If you have experience or advice on this topic, please share.

Thanks.

Terry

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:49:54 PM UTC-5, Terry Pitts wrote:
> All,
>
>
>
> I've been looking at the adds at Wings and Wheels for the last year. I've often looked at ads here in Europe and thought, "Why can't I find this XYZ be in the US?" The sudden "ah ha!" moment came yesterday as I was looking at ads on Tim's website and saw a glider with German registration.
>
>
>
> I've looked at the FAA's website. From a registration perspective it doesn't look awful, but what are the issues/implications associated with bringing a glider from Europe to the US? I realize I have to find a way to ship it. Instruments need to be converted to knots, feet, etc.
>
>
>
> The basic target would be an older club class glider (LS1, DG100, Cirrus, etc.) in the low to mid teens range. That seems do able in Germany. Then add shipping. Etc.
>
>
>
> It's hard to tell without taking some notes and doing some math, but it looks like comparable gliders are cheaper in Europe than in the US. Is that a supply and demand thing - lots more gliders here than in the US? If prices are higher in the US for a comparable aircraft, maybe I could fly one for a few years and break even?
>
>
>
> I know Winter and other companies make instruments for the metric and US markets. Is it easy to get the faces changed? Worth doing some sort of maintenance at the same time?
>
>
>
> Is it worth the effort?
>
>
>
> Lots of questions, I know. If you have experience or advice on this topic, please share.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Terry

I've known it done several times. There's a fair amount of red tape involved
in cancelling the old registration and creating the new one, but it's doable.
Shipping is a few grand. The airspeed and altimeter have to be replaced since
the gearing is different (hands travel a different amount). I think a fair part
of the price difference these days is that the Eurozone isn't doing as well
as the US economically so the demand is suppressed over there.

Another approach to looking for a plane is to send a mass mailing to current
owners of models you're looking for. My plane, for example, sat in a hangar
for 15 years without flying. I'm positive no ad was carried all that time.
You can also contact people like M&H that do sailplane repairs and restorations -- they often know of planes that might be on the market but haven't listed yet.
I got my plane through a similar mechanism.

Matt
ASW-19

[Eric Munk]

- Winter instruments in metres are easy to sell via Segelflug.de for
realistic prices.
- Uras.gliderpilot.net will often yield non-metric instruments for
reasonable prices.
- Whatever you do: GET YOUR GLIDER AN EXPORT CofA BEFORE SHIPPING! If you
don't, you're likely to have a technician flown in from the country of
glider's origin. Very expensive and a lot of hassle.
- Customs usually uses bill of sale prices for duties.
- Get an export license plate for the trailer if the trailer has its own
license (which it has in some countries). Makes importing it so much
easier.
- Go for a glider with stickered registration or painted on in
cellulose-based paint (dissolves in acetone). Sanding off any
PU-registration can be time and money consuming.
- European gliders tend to have a very thorough AD status, so normally
should not be a problem re mod status, but check with your local technician
for paperwork issues before buying.
- Get somebody local to give you an objective look at the condition of the
glider before buying. (or combine with a trip to EUrope!)

Enjoy,

Eric

At 18:10 20 November 2012, wrote:
>On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:49:54 PM UTC-5, Terry Pitts wrote:
>> All,
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I've been looking at the adds at Wings and Wheels for the last year.
>I've=
> often looked at ads here in Europe and thought, "Why can't I find this
>XYZ=
> be in the US?" The sudden "ah ha!" moment came yesterday as I was
looking
>=
>at ads on Tim's website and saw a glider with German registration.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I've looked at the FAA's website. From a registration perspective it
>does=
>n't look awful, but what are the issues/implications associated with
>bringi=
>ng a glider from Europe to the US? I realize I have to find a way to ship
>i=
>t. Instruments need to be converted to knots, feet, etc.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> The basic target would be an older club class glider (LS1, DG100,
>Cirrus,=
> etc.) in the low to mid teens range. That seems do able in Germany. Then
>a=
>dd shipping. Etc.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> It's hard to tell without taking some notes and doing some math, but it
>l=
>ooks like comparable gliders are cheaper in Europe than in the US. Is
that
>=
>a supply and demand thing - lots more gliders here than in the US? If
>price=
>s are higher in the US for a comparable aircraft, maybe I could fly one
>for=
> a few years and break even?
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I know Winter and other companies make instruments for the metric and
US
>=
>markets. Is it easy to get the faces changed? Worth doing some sort of
>main=
>tenance at the same time?
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Is it worth the effort?
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Lots of questions, I know. If you have experience or advice on this
>topic=
>, please share.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Thanks.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Terry
>
>I've known it done several times. There's a fair amount of red tape
>involv=
>ed
>in cancelling the old registration and creating the new one, but it's
>doabl=
>e.
>Shipping is a few grand. The airspeed and altimeter have to be replaced
>si=
>nce
>the gearing is different (hands travel a different amount). I think a
>fair=
> part
>of the price difference these days is that the Eurozone isn't doing as
well
>as the US economically so the demand is suppressed over there.
>
>Another approach to looking for a plane is to send a mass mailing to
>curren=
>t
>owners of models you're looking for. My plane, for example, sat in a
>hanga=
>r
>for 15 years without flying. I'm positive no ad was carried all that
time.
>You can also contact people like M&H that do sailplane repairs and
>restorat=
>ions -- they often know of planes that might be on the market but haven't
>l=
>isted yet.
>I got my plane through a similar mechanism.
>
>Matt
>ASW-19
>

[Bill D]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:49:54 AM UTC-7, Terry Pitts wrote:
> All,
>
>
>
> I've been looking at the adds at Wings and Wheels for the last year. I've often looked at ads here in Europe and thought, "Why can't I find this XYZ be in the US?" The sudden "ah ha!" moment came yesterday as I was looking at ads on Tim's website and saw a glider with German registration.
>
>
>
> I've looked at the FAA's website. From a registration perspective it doesn't look awful, but what are the issues/implications associated with bringing a glider from Europe to the US? I realize I have to find a way to ship it. Instruments need to be converted to knots, feet, etc.
>
>
>
> The basic target would be an older club class glider (LS1, DG100, Cirrus, etc.) in the low to mid teens range. That seems do able in Germany. Then add shipping. Etc.
>
>
>
> It's hard to tell without taking some notes and doing some math, but it looks like comparable gliders are cheaper in Europe than in the US. Is that a supply and demand thing - lots more gliders here than in the US? If prices are higher in the US for a comparable aircraft, maybe I could fly one for a few years and break even?
>
>
>
> I know Winter and other companies make instruments for the metric and US markets. Is it easy to get the faces changed? Worth doing some sort of maintenance at the same time?
>
>
>
> Is it worth the effort?
>
>
>
> Lots of questions, I know. If you have experience or advice on this topic, please share.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Terry

I've known it to be done easily and not so easily. At a minimum, the glider should arrive in the US with an export airworthiness certificate and documents showing the previous owner's registration was surrendered for the purpose of export. A bill of sale with both the old owners signature and the new owners signature as well as selling price helps. That's not comprehensive document list so I suggest dealing with a trusted broker in the originating country. Their fee is worth it.

A bad case was a Twin Astir imported in an owner to owner DIY buy-n-ship deal. It arrived with current Dutch airworthiness and registration certificates which didn't get the new owner far with the FAA. IIRC, straightening that mess out took almost a year.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:49:54 AM UTC-7, Terry Pitts wrote:
> All,
>
>
>
> I've been looking at the adds at Wings and Wheels for the last year. I've often looked at ads here in Europe and thought, "Why can't I find this XYZ be in the US?" The sudden "ah ha!" moment came yesterday as I was looking at ads on Tim's website and saw a glider with German registration.
>
>
>
> I've looked at the FAA's website. From a registration perspective it doesn't look awful, but what are the issues/implications associated with bringing a glider from Europe to the US? I realize I have to find a way to ship it. Instruments need to be converted to knots, feet, etc.
>
>
>
> The basic target would be an older club class glider (LS1, DG100, Cirrus, etc.) in the low to mid teens range. That seems do able in Germany. Then add shipping. Etc.
>
>
>
> It's hard to tell without taking some notes and doing some math, but it looks like comparable gliders are cheaper in Europe than in the US. Is that a supply and demand thing - lots more gliders here than in the US? If prices are higher in the US for a comparable aircraft, maybe I could fly one for a few years and break even?
>
>
>
> I know Winter and other companies make instruments for the metric and US markets. Is it easy to get the faces changed? Worth doing some sort of maintenance at the same time?
>
>
>
> Is it worth the effort?
>
>
>
> Lots of questions, I know. If you have experience or advice on this topic, please share.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Terry

Export C of A and clearance from the foreign registry. The glider mentioned by another poster flew on an experimental airworthiness until cleared by an LBA compliance letter. Still a hassle. Last time I looked, it still had metric instruments on board, but that's been a while.

Complete logbooks, especially if TC'd. Euro sellers are very will to provide copies of all repairs, AD's and SB's, and current W&B.

Reserve an N number in advance.

Trailers can be a hassle. New models need DOT compliance tag. Over a certain age this doesn't apply. An import broker may be helpful here. Private sale documents are not complex. Commercial sale documents are more extensive.

http://www.segelflug.de/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi is one place to shop Europe. You might also check out www.gliderpilot.net

There is no import duty on gliders into the US.

Had a few shipping quotes last year. It was far cheaper to ship a container all the way to Denver from several European ports than to ship to a US port and recover by road. IIRC, you are headed to Georgia, so ports are closer. You may do okay with container or RO-RO. Professional packing services may be required as a condition of insurance. Talk with actual shipping agents, not those that you find on Google. Could be a European agent will get you a better deal. VW Transportion in Wolfsburg used to be good for glider trailer transport, but I think they've been taken over recently and their quote was higher than anticipated. I used Wallenius Wilhelmsen www.2wglobal.com several years ago. I see they call in at Brunswick, GA, from Europe..

Frank Whiteley

[Dave Springford]

We often import gliders in Canada (from the US or Europe) and as long as you do your research with the FAA as to the requirements for import, it will go smoothly.

In Canada, I offer an import brokering service to help people with the paperwork and get their glider flying as quickly as possible. Between club and private gliders, I have done over 10 imports of new and used gliders in the last 5 years and as long as the process is followed things go well. And, we do not have the option of the experimental category in Canada, all gliders need a C of A!

As for metric instruments, Winter ASI's and VSI's can be converted to imperial for less than 100 Euro each, much cheaper than replacing them. Altimeters cannot be converted, but a new United Altimeter will run about $900.

[Jock Proudfoot]

At 01:11 21 November 2012, Dave Springford wrote:

> we do not have the option of the experimental category in Canada, all
gliders need a C of A! >

. Gliders which do not have type certification in Canada are licenced
under something called -
"CAR Standard 507.03 (5)(b) - Ex-military Aircraft"
This turns out to be pretty much the same as EXPERIMENTAL

Cheers ...Jock

[Eric Munk]

>A bad case was a Twin Astir imported in an owner to owner DIY buy-n-ship
deal=
>al. It arrived with current Dutch airworthiness and registration
>certifica=
>tes which didn't get the new owner far with the FAA. IIRC, straightening
>t=
>hat mess out took almost a year.
>

It was actually on a German CofA, but bought from Dutch owners who flew it
German registered. No Export CofA inspection had been done before shipping
(they had a tight deadline on delivering it to the docks). It then was a
question of either flying in an LBA-approved inspector to do it Stateside,
or get the LBA to produce a letter of conformity (which I think is what
happened). First one is quick but expensive, second takes longer but is
cheap. No Export CoA inspection means no Export CoA, means no US CoA (just
a valid European CoA will not do for importing it into the US).
Deregistered the aircraft is a paperwork issue only, and can be done at any
time from anywhere.

DIY import is no problem or hassle, but take time to get it right first
time and save a lot of hassle.

[Bob]

On Nov 20, 10:49*am, Terry Pitts > wrote:
> All,
>
> I've been looking at the adds at Wings and Wheels for the last year. I've often looked at ads here in Europe and thought, "Why can't I find this XYZ be in the US?" The sudden "ah ha!" moment came yesterday as I was looking at ads on Tim's website and saw a glider with German registration.
>
> I've looked at the FAA's website. From a registration perspective it doesn't look awful, but what are the issues/implications associated with bringing a glider from Europe to the US? I realize I have to find a way to ship it. Instruments need to be converted to knots, feet, etc.
>
> The basic target would be an older club class glider (LS1, DG100, Cirrus, etc.) in the low to mid teens range. That seems do able in Germany. Then add shipping. Etc.
>
> It's hard to tell without taking some notes and doing some math, but it looks like comparable gliders are cheaper in Europe than in the US. Is that a supply and demand thing - lots more gliders here than in the US? If prices are higher in the US for a comparable aircraft, maybe I could fly one for a few years and break even?
>
> I know Winter and other companies make instruments for the metric and US markets. Is it easy to get the faces changed? Worth doing some sort of maintenance at the same time?
>
> Is it worth the effort?
>
> Lots of questions, I know. If you have experience or advice on this topic, please share.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Terry

Be VERY careful to make sure the glider is INSURED during the
transportation across the ocean. A few years ago a friend purchased a
glider from Europe, paid for the insurance, but the seller didn't get
the $$ to the insurance company, and in a storm the container went
overboard. Purchaser was SOL.