Drunk pilot news video & ATC audio

[Doug FM]

Hope ATC never has to describe me as "orbiting like an idiot"!

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/video/013004_video_pilottape.html

[Marco Rispoli]

"Doug FM" > wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
> Hope ATC never has to describe me as "orbiting like an idiot"!
>
> http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/video/013004_video_pilottape.html
>

With all the undeserved bad rep GA is getting recently (like the CBS
report)... that's what we need: some stupid DANGEROUS stunt.

I honestly hope this guy pays for it. At the very least I hope they'll never
let him in a plane again.

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
I SOLOed!! You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[Larry Fransson]

On 2004-02-03 11:05:54 -0800, "Marco Rispoli" >
said:

> I honestly hope this guy pays for it. At the very least I hope they'll
never
> let him in a plane again.

I seem to remember reading a thread here recently that said his certificate
had already been revoked. That means they won't *let* him in a plane
again. He may, however, still manage to *get* in an airplane again if he
really wants to.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

[Marco Leon]

The other guy from the LaGuardia/Statue of Liberty incident was up and
flying on Sunday. Can the FAA pull your ticket right away or do they have
to go through some sort of process?

Marco

"Larry Fransson" > wrote in message
news:2004020311474316807%newsgroups@larryandjennyn et...
> On 2004-02-03 11:05:54 -0800, "Marco Rispoli" >
> said:
>
> > I honestly hope this guy pays for it. At the very least I hope they'll
> never
> > let him in a plane again.
>
> I seem to remember reading a thread here recently that said his
certificate
> had already been revoked. That means they won't *let* him in a plane
> again. He may, however, still manage to *get* in an airplane again if he
> really wants to.
>
> --
> Larry Fransson
> Seattle, WA




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[G.R. Patterson III]

Marco Leon wrote:
>
> The other guy from the LaGuardia/Statue of Liberty incident was up and
> flying on Sunday. Can the FAA pull your ticket right away or do they have
> to go through some sort of process?

They can do an emergency suspension of your certificate immediately. Then they
have a few days to decide what they want to charge you with. They then notify
you, and they may ask for your side of the story. The first hearing has to be
held within 30 days. Either you or the FAA can appeal the decision of that to
an administrative law judge, and either you or the FAA can appeal the judge's
decision to the NTSB. Their decision is final.

In this case, they will go for violation of the reg on alcohol, the one about
busting the class-B, the catchall about reckless operation, violation of the
ground clearance regs, and possibly violation of the reg against acrobatics,
depending on how much (if any) that Lear pilot was exagerating. They can probably
find a few more if they really work at it.

I think there isn't a snowball's chance in Hades of him flying again as anything
but a passenger on a commercial airline.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[Richard Russell]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:47:44 GMT, Larry Fransson
> wrote:

>On 2004-02-03 11:05:54 -0800, "Marco Rispoli" >
>said:
>
>> I honestly hope this guy pays for it. At the very least I hope they'll
>never
>> let him in a plane again.
>
>I seem to remember reading a thread here recently that said his certificate
>had already been revoked. That means they won't *let* him in a plane
>again. He may, however, still manage to *get* in an airplane again if he
>really wants to.


I can't verify this information, but the Philly local news reported
that the FAA suspended his certificate. I hope that they meant to say
revoked.

By the way, on the video we heard him announce left base for 28. That
runway has a right pattern because of the power plant. If you look at
the nice picture in AirNav for KPTW you'll see why. After what he did
I guess that's nitpicking but add it to the list of things he screwed
up.
Rich Russell

[Jay Honeck]

> By the way, on the video we heard him announce left base for 28. That
> runway has a right pattern because of the power plant. If you look at
> the nice picture in AirNav for KPTW you'll see why. After what he did
> I guess that's nitpicking but add it to the list of things he screwed
> up.

Not to defend his action, but the FAA would have to bust every third biz jet
that landed in Iowa City if they started enforcing the recommended traffic
pattern procedure.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[EDR]

What makes you people think someone has to have a pilot's certificate
to fly an airplane?

[John Galban]

"Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in message >...
> The other guy from the LaGuardia/Statue of Liberty incident was up and
> flying on Sunday. Can the FAA pull your ticket right away or do they have
> to go through some sort of process?
>
They can do an "emergency revocation". Basically, they send you a
letter ordering you to surrender your cert. either by mail, or at a
FSDO. As I understand it, that's what they did in the case of the PA
pilot. Don't know about the NY guy.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Ricky Robbins]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:58:40 GMT, EDR > wrote:

>
>What makes you people think someone has to have a pilot's certificate
>to fly an airplane?

But this someone did, in fact a commercial. If I found the right one
(and I think it is), he has (copied from FAA search):

DOI : 03/23/2001
Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT

Rating(s):

COMMERCIAL PILOT
ROTORCRAFT-HELICOPTER
INSTRUMENT HELICOPTER
PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND

You can read about it, in order, here: (and here and here)

http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_04a/leadnews/186506-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_05a/briefs/186583-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_06a/briefs/186637-1.html

Ricky

[Marco Rispoli]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
>
> What makes you people think someone has to have a pilot's certificate
> to fly an airplane?

You make a good point but you have to consider that if they take his license
away:

1 - all the money he invested in training will be gone to nothing
2 - he can only fly in his dreams and flight simulator

Can he fly a plane without a license? He can steal one (I don't think you
can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid student license and you
definetly can't rent one ... people with more knowledge in the FARs can
elaborate here).

But now you are not talking about breaking into Bravo airspace anymore
(which is bad enough). You are talking about a criminal act (stealing). That
goes beyond the scope of this subject ... since the guy may be an idiot but
is probably not a criminal in the traditional sense (even if you could argue
that being an idiot IS a crime).

One more thing: this is the Northeast. I have the impression that things are
a bit more controlled around here. There's radar coverage everywhere and
airports are crowded and more under control.

If you are thinking about other areas of the country that are more laid back
and isolated then maybe he can still fly and even keep on going his
commercial business (unlikely in my opinion) illegally and not get caught
.... perhaps. I have never really been out of the Northeast ... so I
wouldn't know much about this.

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
I SOLOed!! You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[Morgans]

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote

(I don't think you can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid
student license >
> --
> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA

WRONGAMOONDO !!!!!!!
--
Jim in NC


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[Roy Smith]

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote:
> Can he fly a plane without a license? He can steal one (I don't think you
> can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid student license and you
> definetly can't rent one ... people with more knowledge in the FARs can
> elaborate here).

There is nothing that says you can't own an airplane if you don't have a
pilot's license.

> One more thing: this is the Northeast. I have the impression that things are
> a bit more controlled around here. There's radar coverage everywhere and
> airports are crowded and more under control.

Well, the controlled airports are under control, but the uncontrolled
ones aren't. There are plenty of uncontrolled airports in the
northeast. Still, to the best of my knowledge, the controllers at NY
Tracon can't see if I've got a piece of paper in my wallet or not.

Certainly, if you rent from an FBO or club, somebody's going to want to
see your license, medical, BFR endorsements, etc. But if you bought
your own plane, the odds are you could go a lifetime of flying without
anybody ever asking to see any paperwork. I'm sure there are plenty of
people flying around without licenses, on expired medicals, etc.

[EDR]

> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote
> (I don't think you can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid
> student license >

> In article >, Morgans > wrote:
> WRONGAMOONDO !!!!!!!

Lots of non-pilots buy airplanes and hire others to fly them.

So, a person can buy an airplane without a pilot's license, AND fly
that airplane without a pilot's license.

I knew an old timer who had lost his medical. He owned a private
airport. He told his wife, "It's my airplane, it's my airport, I'll fly
if I want to!"

[EDR]

In article >, Roy Smith
> wrote:

> Certainly, if you rent from an FBO or club, somebody's going to want to
> see your license, medical, BFR endorsements, etc. But if you bought
> your own plane, the odds are you could go a lifetime of flying without
> anybody ever asking to see any paperwork. I'm sure there are plenty of
> people flying around without licenses, on expired medicals, etc.

Years ago, when I was a wee lad, my father would take me flying.
When he died a few years ago, I asked my mother if I could have his
pilot's certificate. She couldn't find one and I don't think he ever
had one.

He took flying lessons when he was in high school, then went into WW2.
While in Thailand, one evening he "borrowed" a British L-5 on floats.
It was a hour drive from the base into Bankok, or 15 minutes by air. He
and a buddy got in the airplane and took off and landed in a canal in
Bankok. They got the parts they needed, got back in the L-5 and headed
for home. It was dusk, with sufficient visibility to see. He cut the
power and glided in to land in the canal by the base. When the floats
touched the side of the canal, they egressed back to their quarters.
The Brits complained, my dad's CO said he couldn't prove it was my
father, but advised him not to do it again.

When I was young, my father would rent planes all the time with just a
checkout. If people know you, you can still do the same thing now.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Richard Russell wrote:
>
> I can't verify this information, but the Philly local news reported
> that the FAA suspended his certificate. I hope that they meant to say
> revoked.

The news is almost certainly correct. The FAA can suspend a certificate on an
emergency basis immediately and without warning, but they need to hold a hearing
to revoke one. That takes time.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Not to defend his action, but the FAA would have to bust every third biz jet
> that landed in Iowa City if they started enforcing the recommended traffic
> pattern procedure.

You can't enforce a reccomended traffic pattern.

[Newps]

Roy Smith wrote:

> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote:
>
>>Can he fly a plane without a license?

Lots of people do.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Marco Rispoli wrote:
>
> I don't think you can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid student
> license and you definetly can't rent one

Well, you *can* own one, but the courts can take steps to prevent you from using
it if there's good reason to believe that you intend to fly it yourself. The FAA
has in the past obtained court orders to padlock aircraft owned by people whose
certificates were revoked. Care to bet on whether they'll do it this time or not?
Care to bet on whether a PA judge will take longer than 5 seconds to issue the
order?

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[C J Campbell]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
|
| I think there isn't a snowball's chance in Hades of him flying again as
anything
| but a passenger on a commercial airline.
|

Gee, I wouldn't want to him to even be on the same airliner as me.

[C J Campbell]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
|
|
| Marco Rispoli wrote:
| >
| > I don't think you can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid
student
| > license and you definetly can't rent one
|
| Well, you *can* own one, but the courts can take steps to prevent you from
using
| it if there's good reason to believe that you intend to fly it yourself.
The FAA
| has in the past obtained court orders to padlock aircraft owned by people
whose
| certificates were revoked. Care to bet on whether they'll do it this time
or not?
| Care to bet on whether a PA judge will take longer than 5 seconds to issue
the
| order?
|

So what the heck? He just cuts the lock and flies off to another state where
he won't be recognized. Maybe Alaska.

[C J Campbell]

"Doug FM" > wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
| Hope ATC never has to describe me as "orbiting like an idiot"!
|
| http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/video/013004_video_pilottape.html

It is really too bad that he did not run into the nuclear power plant. It
would have been an interesting experiment to see just how much damage he
would have done to the thing.

[Larry Fransson]

On 2004-02-03 19:11:56 -0800, Roy Smith > said:

> I'm sure there are plenty of people flying around without licenses, on
expired medicals, etc.

And more than one person with no valid pilot certificate has been hired to
fly an airplane. There is the famous story from (I think) Eastern
Airlines, and in the interview for my previous job, the boss asked to see
my certificate just to make sure I had one, then related a story about how
he had once hired a guy and didn't discover until the guy was in training
that he didn't have a certificate.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

[Cockpit Colin]

> They can do an emergency suspension of your certificate immediately. Then
they
> have a few days to decide what they want to charge you with. They then
notify
> you, and they may ask for your side of the story. The first hearing has to
be
> held within 30 days. Either you or the FAA can appeal the decision of that
to
> an administrative law judge, and either you or the FAA can appeal the
judge's
> decision to the NTSB. Their decision is final.

You sem to know a lot about this ...

.... perhaps TOO much about this? ;)

[EDR]

In article >, G.R. Patterson III
> wrote:

> Marco Rispoli wrote:
> >
> > I don't think you can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid student
> > license and you definetly can't rent one
>
> Well, you *can* own one, but the courts can take steps to prevent you from
> usingit if there's good reason to believe that you intend to fly it yourself.
> The FAA has in the past obtained court orders to padlock aircraft owned by
> people whose certificates were revoked. Care to bet on whether they'll do it
> this time or not?

But they help pilot certificates. That is different from not having a
certificate. Rules of evidence apply (as I understand it, based on
stories in the Southern US).

> Care to bet on whether a PA judge will take longer than 5 seconds to issue the
> order?

Probably easier now under the Patriot Act. They can do anything they
want.

[Richard Russell]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:11:56 -0500, Roy Smith > wrote:

>"Marco Rispoli" > wrote:
>> Can he fly a plane without a license? He can steal one (I don't think you
>> can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid student license and you
>> definetly can't rent one ... people with more knowledge in the FARs can
>> elaborate here).
>
>There is nothing that says you can't own an airplane if you don't have a
>pilot's license.
>
>> One more thing: this is the Northeast. I have the impression that things are
>> a bit more controlled around here. There's radar coverage everywhere and
>> airports are crowded and more under control.
>
>Well, the controlled airports are under control, but the uncontrolled
>ones aren't. There are plenty of uncontrolled airports in the
>northeast. Still, to the best of my knowledge, the controllers at NY
>Tracon can't see if I've got a piece of paper in my wallet or not.
>
>Certainly, if you rent from an FBO or club, somebody's going to want to
>see your license, medical, BFR endorsements, etc. But if you bought
>your own plane, the odds are you could go a lifetime of flying without
>anybody ever asking to see any paperwork. I'm sure there are plenty of
>people flying around without licenses, on expired medicals, etc.

I have never had a situation arise where I had to prove that I had a
certificate. Of course, I never rented from anyone other than the FBO
where I trained. I can easily see how someone that had access to a
plane could fly indefinitely without having a valid cert.
Rich Russell

[Larry Fransson]

On 2004-02-03 22:01:52 -0800, "C J Campbell"
> said:

> It is really too bad that he did not run into the nuclear power plant. It
> would have been an interesting experiment to see just how much damage he
> would have done to the thing.

Judging by the amount of damage we've seen a 172 do to steel & glass office
building, I'd have to say that the damage would have been minimal had he
hit the containment building or one of the cooling towers. Had he hit the
power transmission lines coming out of the plant, *that* would have been a
spectacle.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA
E-mail address changes regularly to thwart spam.

[Newps]

EDR wrote:

>
> Probably easier now under the Patriot Act. They can do anything they
> want.

Patriot Act has nothing to do with it. This is a no brainer case.

[Marco Rispoli]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
>
> > "Marco Rispoli" > wrote
> > (I don't think you can own a plane if you don't have at least a valid
> > student license >
>
> > In article >, Morgans
> wrote:
> > WRONGAMOONDO !!!!!!!
>
> Lots of non-pilots buy airplanes and hire others to fly them.
>
> So, a person can buy an airplane without a pilot's license, AND fly
> that airplane without a pilot's license.
>
> I knew an old timer who had lost his medical. He owned a private
> airport. He told his wife, "It's my airplane, it's my airport, I'll fly
> if I want to!"

I stand corrected.

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
I SOLOed!! You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[Gene Seibel]

If they ever describe me that way, it won't be because of alcohol. I
don't touch the stuff. Fling is too important to me.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.


"Doug FM" > wrote in message ogers.com>...
> Hope ATC never has to describe me as "orbiting like an idiot"!
>
> http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/video/013004_video_pilottape.html

[G.R. Patterson III]

EDR wrote:
>
> But they help pilot certificates. That is different from not having a
> certificate. Rules of evidence apply (as I understand it, based on
> stories in the Southern US).

I'm sure there's a typo in there, and I don't understand what you mean, but I can
assure you that, if an FAA inspector appears before a New Jersey judge and states
that he has reason to believe that a person intends to fly his plane on a revoked
certficate, that's all the "evidence" the judge will require. There will be a prop
lock on that plane that day.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[G.R. Patterson III]

C J Campbell wrote:
>
> So what the heck? He just cuts the lock and flies off to another state where
> he won't be recognized. Maybe Alaska.

Well, there could easily be many cases of which I have not heard, but the guy that
tried that at Solberg got chased and crashed when he ran it out of gas.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[gross_arrow]

Larry Fransson > wrote in message news:<2004020322035116807%newsgroups@larryandjennynet>...
> On 2004-02-03 19:11:56 -0800, Roy Smith > said:
>
> > I'm sure there are plenty of people flying around without licenses, on
> expired medicals, etc.
>
> And more than one person with no valid pilot certificate has been hired to
> fly an airplane. There is the famous story from (I think) Eastern
> Airlines, and in the interview for my previous job, the boss asked to see
> my certificate just to make sure I had one, then related a story about how
> he had once hired a guy and didn't discover until the guy was in training
> that he didn't have a certificate.


i seem to remember ernest k. gann describing such an incident in
"fate is the hunter". (if you're into flying, that is a "must read").

g_a

[G.R. Patterson III]

gross_arrow wrote:
>
> i seem to remember ernest k. gann describing such an incident in
> "fate is the hunter". (if you're into flying, that is a "must read").

"Captain Dudley". Had the equivalent of a private pilot's certificate. Flew for
American until they figured things out. Then landed a job with another airline,
blew an approach, and crashed, killing most of the passengers. He finally committed
suicide.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[C J Campbell]

"Gene Seibel" > wrote in message
om...
| If they ever describe me that way, it won't be because of alcohol. I
| don't touch the stuff. Fling is too important to me.
| --

You like a little fling once in awhile, Gene? :-)

[Peter Duniho]

"Larry Fransson" > wrote in message
news:2004020406002816807%grewsnoups@larryandjennyn et...
> [...] Had he hit the
> power transmission lines coming out of the plant, *that* would have been a
> spectacle.

Nah...he would've just gotten strung up. Remember the guy who wound up in
the wires over at Boeing Field? And those weren't even high-tension power
lines.

[Andrew Gideon]

Richard Russell wrote:


> I have never had a situation arise where I had to prove that I had a
> certificate. Of course, I never rented from anyone other than the FBO
> where I trained. I can easily see how someone that had access to a
> plane could fly indefinitely without having a valid cert.

It's been a while, but doesn't the AME check the certificate? And doesn't
the FBO ask about a medical every few years?

Andrew

[Richard Russell]

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:28:08 -0500, Andrew Gideon >
wrote:

>Richard Russell wrote:
>
>
>> I have never had a situation arise where I had to prove that I had a
>> certificate. Of course, I never rented from anyone other than the FBO
>> where I trained. I can easily see how someone that had access to a
>> plane could fly indefinitely without having a valid cert.
>
>It's been a while, but doesn't the AME check the certificate? And doesn't
>the FBO ask about a medical every few years?
>
> Andrew

I would suspect that the same fellow that is willing to fly without a
cert is perfectly willing to fly without a medical, thus no
crosschecking opportunity there. My FBO has never asked me for
anything, but I'm familiar to them and they trust me. I would expect
to have to provide those documents if I went somewhere else.
Rich Russsell

[Robert M. Gary]

Roy Smith > wrote in message >...
> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote:
> Certainly, if you rent from an FBO or club, somebody's going to want to
> see your license, medical, BFR endorsements, etc.

I've yet to have anyone ask to see my "license". I've been asked for
my medical and once for my BFR. I've never been asked for the required
endorsements.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

Its as stupid as the pilot insecurity rules. If they think you are a
terrorist they revoke your certificate. If you area a terrorist you
think (WTF!) and go about your plans. If you are a regular guy you
spend a bunch of money appealing where you can't even see the
evidenance against you. If someone really is a terrorist and they
really do have bad plans, go down and arrest their ass, don't putt
around pulling tickets! In real life you'd probably have to spend
money appealing through the FAA process (and losing of course because
you don't know the evidence against you). Once you've exhausted the
FAA appeals process you can file an injuction in federal court. That
would be a pretty easy one to win because of "due process". Clearly
the FAA hasn't used "due process" by not letting you see the evidence.
The courts have ruled that "due process" applies to all agencies and
all cases (its not just a criminal thing, its used all the time
against the EPA).


-Robert


"C J Campbell" > wrote in message >...
>> So what the heck? He just cuts the lock and flies off to another
state where
> he won't be recognized. Maybe Alaska.

[Gene Seibel]

Only when I'm flying. ;)
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



"C J Campbell" > wrote in message >...
> "Gene Seibel" > wrote in message
> om...
> | If they ever describe me that way, it won't be because of alcohol. I
> | don't touch the stuff. Fling is too important to me.
> | --
>
> You like a little fling once in awhile, Gene? :-)

[Joe Morris]

Larry Fransson > wrote:

> On 2004-02-03 19:11:56 -0800, Roy Smith > said:
>
> > I'm sure there are plenty of people flying around without licenses, on
> expired medicals, etc.

Lots of them. Many years after I got my license (1966) I discovered
that the CFI who gave me about 2/3 of my primary training had lost his
medical certificate long before I became his student. (And he wasn't a
particularly good instructor either, which I quickly discovered after
flying with some really good CFIs.)

Joe Morris

[Tom|420]

C J Campbell wrote:

> "Doug FM" > wrote in message
> ble.rogers.com...
> | Hope ATC never has to describe me as "orbiting like an idiot"!
> |
> | http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/video/013004_video_pilottape.html
>
> It is really too bad that he did not run into the nuclear power plant. It
> would have been an interesting experiment to see just how much damage he
> would have done to the thing.
>
>

Actually the only damage would have been to the painting and the grass.

Nuclear power plant are designed (and tested) so that such accident
would cause any damage. I have seen a video of a plane sent into a
replication of the walls (several feet thick) of a nuclear plant. For
the simulation the plane was not really flying, it was rolling on a
train-like track at a speed similar to a flying (and falling) aircraft,
and it looked like to be a dual-engine way larger than a cessna. Result:
the plane was about 1 inch thick and the wall undamaged.

If a plane happens to crash into a nuclear plant and actually go through
the walls, I sure don't want to be close enough to experiment the result.

[Larry Fransson]

On 2004-02-06 00:13:45 -0800, Tom|420 > said:
>
> If a plane happens to crash into a nuclear plant and actually go
> through the walls, I sure don't want to be close enough to experiment
> the result.

Probably not as bad as what you're thinking. Once you get through the
containment building's walls, you have to get through the reactor's
shielding. There are probably two levels of shielding - one well
outside the reactor vessel itself, and another immediately surrounding
the reactor vessel. There will be at least several inches of lead and
steel in that shielding, and quite probably a couple feet of water or
other hydrogenous material. Then you have to break into the reactor
vessel itself, which is also made of some sort of metal a couple of
inches thick.

Anything with enough energy to do all of that will cause a lot of
damage no matter what it hits.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA
E-mail address changes regularly to thwart spam.

[C J Campbell]

"Tom|420" > wrote in message
.. .
| >
| > It is really too bad that he did not run into the nuclear power plant.
It
| > would have been an interesting experiment to see just how much damage he
| > would have done to the thing.
| >
| >
|
| Actually the only damage would have been to the painting and the grass.
|

True, but it would have been fun to watch those who are permanently freaked
out to freak out even more. "He hit the power plant! My God! If he had been
just 15 times the size of a Boeing 747 and going mach 10, he might have
chipped some of the concrete! We need to close all the plants! We need to
close all the airports! We need to bury ourselves in mile-deep bunkers!"

[Andrew Gideon]

C J Campbell wrote:

> We need to bury ourselves in mile-deep
> bunkers!"

Quietly agree, and point the way to the bunker. Close door. Seal door.
Problem solved.

- Andrew

[Dave Stadt]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
online.com...
> C J Campbell wrote:
>
> > We need to bury ourselves in mile-deep
> > bunkers!"
>
> Quietly agree, and point the way to the bunker. Close door. Seal door.
> Problem solved.
>
> - Andrew

Politicians first, then lawyers, then more than likely the problem will be
solved as long as the doors lock from the outside.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom|420" > wrote in message
> .. .
> | >
> | > It is really too bad that he did not run into the nuclear power plant.
> It
> | > would have been an interesting experiment to see just how much damage
he
> | > would have done to the thing.
> | >
> | >
> |
> | Actually the only damage would have been to the painting and the grass.
> |
>
> True, but it would have been fun to watch those who are permanently
freaked
> out to freak out even more. "He hit the power plant! My God! If he had
been
> just 15 times the size of a Boeing 747 and going mach 10, he might have
> chipped some of the concrete! We need to close all the plants! We need to
> close all the airports! We need to bury ourselves in mile-deep bunkers!"
>
Stop It!!! You sound like my mother-in-law!!