avian pilotage

[Gary Drescher]

According to Reuters today, British scientists tracking homing pigeons with
GPS transmitters discovered that the pigeons don't return home by celestial
navigation. Instead, they follow roads. Closely. Prof. Tim Guilford: "It
is striking to see the pigeons fly straight down the A34 Oxford bypass, and
then sharply curve off at the traffic lights before curving off again at the
roundabout."

[Morgans]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:7fAUb.184353$sv6.949999@attbi_s52...
> According to Reuters today, British scientists tracking homing pigeons
with
> GPS transmitters discovered that the pigeons don't return home by
celestial
> navigation. Instead, they follow roads. Closely. Prof. Tim Guilford:
"It
> is striking to see the pigeons fly straight down the A34 Oxford bypass,
and
> then sharply curve off at the traffic lights before curving off again at
the
> roundabout."
>
>
Do they follow the same route that took them away from home?
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/04

[Peter]

Morgans wrote:

> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> news:7fAUb.184353$sv6.949999@attbi_s52...
>
>>According to Reuters today, British scientists tracking homing pigeons
>
> with
>
>>GPS transmitters discovered that the pigeons don't return home by
>
> celestial
>
>>navigation. Instead, they follow roads. Closely. Prof. Tim Guilford:
>
> "It
>
>>is striking to see the pigeons fly straight down the A34 Oxford bypass,
>
> and
>
>>then sharply curve off at the traffic lights before curving off again at
>
> the
>
>>roundabout."
>>
>>
>
> Do they follow the same route that took them away from home?

The article I saw,
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/05/1075853987030.html indicated
that they only use the IFR (I Follow Roads) method on routes that they flew
multiple times, but that "pigeons use their own navigational system when
doing long-distance trips or when a bird does a journey for the first time."

[Gary Drescher]

"Peter" > wrote in message
news:1%AUb.188465$nt4.791175@attbi_s51...
> The article I saw,
> http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/05/1075853987030.html indicated
> that they only use the IFR (I Follow Roads) method on routes that they
flew
> multiple times, but that "pigeons use their own navigational system when
> doing long-distance trips or when a bird does a journey for the first
time."

Cool. The version I'd read was truncated and omitted that detail.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Gary Drescher wrote:
>
> According to Reuters today, British scientists tracking homing pigeons with
> GPS transmitters discovered that the pigeons don't return home by celestial
> navigation. Instead, they follow roads. Closely.

Interesting. Pigeons were used during the two World Wars to send messages from the
continent to England. What method did they use to cross the channel?

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Morgans wrote:
>
> Do they follow the same route that took them away from home?

Not likely. During WWII, the French underground and British spies used pigeons for
messages. The birds were flown in in Lysander "moonplanes".

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>Morgans wrote:
>> Do they follow the same route that took them away from home?
>
>Not likely. During WWII, the French underground and British spies used
>pigeons for messages. The birds were flown in in Lysander "moonplanes".

And you could just see them all hanging around resistance air fields
hoping to hitch a ride back.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Software planning seems to be based on denying plausibility.
-- Graham Reed

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, G.R. Patterson III wrote:
> Interesting. Pigeons were used during the two World Wars to send
> messages from the
> continent to England. What method did they use to cross the channel?

Pigeons probably have a mix of navigational techniques, just like we do
when flying. When over land, I'll follow and use ground features, but
when crossing the Irish Sea, I'll use dead reckoning or GPS. Pigeons
probably do the same (except for the GPS bit, and I'm not sure what
they'd use for the compass :-))

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Dan Luke]

"Gary Drescher" wrote:
> pigeons ... follow roads.

That doesn't mean they're using pilotage. The pigeons are carried along
the roads in cars to the release points. How would they recognize a
route from the air they had traveled (and probably not seen) only on the
ground?

Birds are capable of magnetic navigation.
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF3/345.html
Most likely the pigeons are able to sense and store the route they
travel to the release point, and then retrace it home.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

[Peter]

Dan Luke wrote:

> "Gary Drescher" wrote:
>
>>pigeons ... follow roads.
>
>
> That doesn't mean they're using pilotage. The pigeons are carried along
> the roads in cars to the release points. How would they recognize a
> route from the air they had traveled (and probably not seen) only on the
> ground?
>
> Birds are capable of magnetic navigation.
> http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF3/345.html
> Most likely the pigeons are able to sense and store the route they
> travel to the release point, and then retrace it home.

But it was reported that the 'follow roads' navigation was *not* used on
the first flight home. It was only used when the birds flew the same
course repeatedly allowing them to learn the pattern of roads.

[Gary Drescher]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Gary Drescher" wrote:
> > pigeons ... follow roads.
>
> That doesn't mean they're using pilotage. The pigeons are carried along
> the roads in cars to the release points. How would they recognize a
> route from the air they had traveled (and probably not seen) only on the
> ground?
>
> Birds are capable of magnetic navigation.
> http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF3/345.html
> Most likely the pigeons are able to sense and store the route they
> travel to the release point, and then retrace it home.

You raise a good question. It's conceivable that the pigeons identify
landmarks from the ground that they can recognize from the air. But not
having read the road-following study itself, I can't really discuss it
intelligently. Offhand, though, I'd be skeptical that a stored magnetic
route (fly heading 053 for 220 meters, then 072 for 570 meters...) could be
precise enough that the pigeons would stay above a road and turn at
intersections, even following rotaries. (And the pigeons would need a
source of distance information, as well as heading information--perhaps
derived from timers and accelerometers, or visual cues.) A system
incorporating both pilotage and magnetic tracks is certainly a possibility.

--Gary

> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
> (remove pants to reply by email)
>
>
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

Pigeons have been put on trains/boats/planes and carried for
hundreds/thousands of miles, including overwater... When released thay
usually find their way home...

I <personally, not due to any published articles> feel that their magnetic
field sensing is far more sophisticated than simply saying, "North is
thattaway"... I suspect that they sense magnetic patterns analogous to the
way that our eyes do with reflected light - pattern recognition that allows
you to walk to the front door and put your hand on the knob - and our ears
do, in that we can track the sound of the dripping faucet... They live in a
world of rippling, flowing, magnetic currents that they sense and track,
like following the echoes of the faucet through the house at night...

denny

"Dan Luke" > wrote in > Most likely the pigeons
are able to sense and store the route they
> travel to the release point, and then retrace it home.

[Robert M. Gary]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message >...
> "Gary Drescher" wrote:
> > pigeons ... follow roads.
>
> That doesn't mean they're using pilotage. The pigeons are carried along
> the roads in cars to the release points. How would they recognize a
> route from the air they had traveled (and probably not seen) only on the
> ground?

The article I read said they basically fly like us. When they cross
the ocean or fly home after being driven somewhere they use a
combination of things (their brains are sensitive to magnetic field
and they seem to know where the sun is and should be). However, if you
ask them to fly the same path over and over they get lazy and shut off
the "GPS" and just follow the roads. That makes sense, that's how I
fly. I don't use the GPS to fly around the local area.

It also makes sense because other animals work that way. A dog finds
his way home by following the roads he's familiar with. There is no
reason to believe birds who fly the same path all the time don't do
the same.

-Robert