Power Flarm Display

[SteveB_Z5]

I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability?

Thanks,
Steve

[kd6veb]

Hi Steve
I have had a portable PowerFlarm mounted with Velcro on the glare shield above the instrument panel in my glider. It is mounted at a height close to that of my eyes and is carefully orientated so that there is the least brightness attenuation when using Polaroid glasses. It is very very marginal because of the small screen and the tiny characters and symbols and in my opinion much inferior to the original Flarm used in the rest of the world.
There are other issues but I won't go into them here and now.
Would I purchase a new PowerFlarn if I lost my old one? No I would buy a Zaon MRX PCAS which I used for 3 years before installing the PowerFlarm. PowerFlarm is a work in progress which is progressing extremely slowly. I am not convinced in its present incarnation that it could be or is a viable product. I have kept mine because I would truly like PowerFlarm to be successful but I think they have got themselves into deep water biting off more than they can chew. I would like to be proven wrong but I don't think so.
Dave

[Darryl Ramm]

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 7:35:17 PM UTC-8, kd6veb wrote:
> Hi Steve
>
> I have had a portable PowerFlarm mounted with Velcro on the glare shield above the instrument panel in my glider. It is mounted at a height close to that of my eyes and is carefully orientated so that there is the least brightness attenuation when using Polaroid glasses. It is very very marginal because of the small screen and the tiny characters and symbols and in my opinion much inferior to the original Flarm used in the rest of the world.
>
> There are other issues but I won't go into them here and now.
>
> Would I purchase a new PowerFlarn if I lost my old one? No I would buy a Zaon MRX PCAS which I used for 3 years before installing the PowerFlarm. PowerFlarm is a work in progress which is progressing extremely slowly. I am not convinced in its present incarnation that it could be or is a viable product. I have kept mine because I would truly like PowerFlarm to be successful but I think they have got themselves into deep water biting off more than they can chew. I would like to be proven wrong but I don't think so.
>
> Dave

Dave, c'mon that is largely hubris, PowerFLARM has had teething problems and slower getting to market than anybody wanted, but it is a viable product as is. It is really the *only* viable product in the USA that helps provide effective glider-glider traffic awareness/collision avoidance (much better than transponder/PCAS ever can do).

It was not clear what the the original poster wants the PowerFLARM for - e.g. for glider-glider collision avoidance, for GA traffic PCAS, for 1090ES data-in, or what. But if its for glider-glider collision avoidance then there is not much point making a comparison to a Zaon PCAS device. Maybe in Dave's case his use of PowerFLARM really is as a PCAS only device, but that is not what most other folks here are really going to be wanting from the PowerFLARM.

If its purpose is for Flarm collision avoidance with other gliders, then there will hopefully be other gliders in the area already equipped with PowerFLARM -- so hopefully an opportunity to look at the displays installed in those. And everybody's eyesight is different, best to look at the real thing.. And make sure you understand the different screen modes--e.g. tryign to spot regular traffic vs a traffic alert display. All described in the manuals available online. http://powerflarm.us/manuals-software-updates-and-release-notes/

Darryl

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:42:27 PM UTC-5, SteveB_Z5 wrote:
> I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability? Thanks, Steve

I found the 57MM round display to be very hard to read due to small print.
Since I have a ClearNav, I connected to that and it is fine.
Others with young eyes may have different experience.
UH

[K]

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 4:42:27 PM UTC-7, SteveB_Z5 wrote:
> I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve

I flew a season with a PF portable (No range issues and better audio) and I would advise against a display in the panel. Perfectly readable in sunlight. Currently purchasing a brick and plan on the LX-Nav display to be mounted on the edge of the glare shield.
I'd like to see the PF people get their act together and resolve issues better.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Dec 9, 4:42*pm, SteveB_Z5 > wrote:
> I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. *What do users think of the display? *Sun and shade readability?


The Power FLARM core (brick) does not have a display. You may need to
say what display you are considering.

Also, don't just ask about display visibility, you also need to
evaluate whether the audio alert is adequate to perform intended
function.

Andy (GY)

[[email protected]]

Steve,

I started with a Butterfly 57mm display, but it is severly limited on menu choices and usability in-flight. The display on my Butterfly was quite dim which made the small text harder to read.

I switched to the FlarmView by LX. It's much brighter and you have a lot more options on how you want to configure the display and all the options are available in flight. In my opinion the FlarmView is a significantly better choice. The only minor drawback is that it's not designed to go into a 57mm panel cut out. I simply made a small bracket and it's directly in front of a spare 57mm instrument location. The text on the FlarmView is still small, but the resolution of the better quality display screen makes it easier to read. The size of the two screens is basically identical. One BIG advantage of the FlarmView is the ability to assign a contest number to an "unknown" FLARM target on the fly. If you use the Butterfly, you can NOT edit the ID in any way other than the convoluted database download, upload and pray method of the Butterfly. With FlarmView if you see an unknown FLARM target you can select that target and then enter the contest number for that target and you're DONE. FlarmView will also accept the FlarmNet data, but you have to do a simple conversion of the data first. Another simplification is that you can remove the mini SD card and add the FlarmNet data to the card and it doesn't require a RadioShack project of making your own custom data transfer cable which is currently required with the Butterfly Display.

Anyway, enough said. Go here to see the FlarmView Display.

http://lxnav.com/products/flarmview.html

Paul at Cumulus has the FlarmViews.

Mark





On Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:42:27 PM UTC-6, SteveB_Z5 wrote:
> I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve

Steve,m

[Paul Remde]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the nice review of the LXNAV FlarmView. It is a very nice
product. But, to clarify one point you made below, there is no need to
convert the FlarmNet file. I suspect that you must have downloaded the
wrong file. You need to use the one on the FlarmNet web site that is
formatted for LXNAV products.
Details are available here:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/lxnav.htm#LXNAV-FlarmView

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

wrote in message
...

Steve,

I started with a Butterfly 57mm display, but it is severly limited on menu
choices and usability in-flight. The display on my Butterfly was quite dim
which made the small text harder to read.

I switched to the FlarmView by LX. It's much brighter and you have a lot
more options on how you want to configure the display and all the options
are available in flight. In my opinion the FlarmView is a significantly
better choice. The only minor drawback is that it's not designed to go into
a 57mm panel cut out. I simply made a small bracket and it's directly in
front of a spare 57mm instrument location. The text on the FlarmView is
still small, but the resolution of the better quality display screen makes
it easier to read. The size of the two screens is basically identical. One
BIG advantage of the FlarmView is the ability to assign a contest number to
an "unknown" FLARM target on the fly. If you use the Butterfly, you can NOT
edit the ID in any way other than the convoluted database download, upload
and pray method of the Butterfly. With FlarmView if you see an unknown
FLARM target you can select that target and then enter the contest number
for that target and you're DONE. FlarmView will also accept the FlarmNet
data, but you have to do a simple conversion of the data first. Another
simplification is that you can remove the mini SD card and add the FlarmNet
data to the card and it doesn't require a RadioShack project of making your
own custom data transfer cable which is currently required with the
Butterfly Display.

Anyway, enough said. Go here to see the FlarmView Display.

http://lxnav.com/products/flarmview.html

Paul at Cumulus has the FlarmViews.

Mark





On Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:42:27 PM UTC-6, SteveB_Z5 wrote:
> I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of
> the display? Sun and shade readability?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve

Steve,m

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Dec 10, 10:08*am, wrote:
> Steve,
>
> I started with a Butterfly 57mm display, but it is severly limited on menu choices and usability in-flight. *The display on my Butterfly was quite dim which made the small text harder to read.
>
> I switched to the FlarmView by LX. *It's much brighter and you have a lot more options on how you want to configure the display and all the options are available in flight. *In my opinion the FlarmView is a significantly better choice. *The only minor drawback is that it's not designed to go into a 57mm panel cut out. *I simply made a small bracket and it's directly in front of a spare 57mm instrument location. *The text on the FlarmView is still small, but the resolution of the better quality display screen makes it easier to read. *The size of the two screens is basically identical. *One BIG advantage of the FlarmView is the ability to assign a contest number to an "unknown" FLARM target on the fly. *If you use the Butterfly, you can NOT edit the ID in any way other than the convoluted database download, upload and pray method of the Butterfly. *With FlarmView if you see an unknown FLARM target you can select that target and then enter the contest number for that target and you're DONE. *FlarmView will also accept the FlarmNet data, but you have to do a simple conversion of the data first. *Another simplification is that you can remove the mini SD card and add the FlarmNet data to the card and it doesn't require a RadioShack project of making your own custom data transfer cable which is currently required with the Butterfly Display.
>
> Anyway, enough said. *Go here to see the FlarmView Display.
>
> http://lxnav.com/products/flarmview.html
>
> Paul at Cumulus has the FlarmViews.
>
> Mark
>
> On Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:42:27 PM UTC-6, SteveB_Z5 wrote:
> > I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. *What do users think of the display? *Sun and shade readability?
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Steve
>
> Steve,m

The Butterfly hardware is very nice. The screen is quite clear and
very readable if you have 20/20 vision or glasses like in my case.
There is great potential to this display if the firmware is updated
e.g. font a big bigger. I actually like the hardware and it is bright
enough for me.

By the way PCAS range of PowerFlarm brick improved somewhat with the
latest firmware update but it is still not where it should be. I
tested the latest update in the middle of November and I found some
targets showing up early while others showing late. I found the PCAS
antenna position to be extremely important in getting better
performance but there is still work that PowerFlarm needs to do. It
seems to me there is still a software issue.

[Jim[_32_]]

On Monday, December 10, 2012 8:24:23 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:42:27 PM UTC-5, SteveB_Z5 wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability? Thanks, Steve
>
>
>
> I found the 57MM round display to be very hard to read due to small print..
>
> Since I have a ClearNav, I connected to that and it is fine.
>
> Others with young eyes may have different experience.
>
> UH

I have the Butterfly rectangular display and find not only is the print unreadably small but the audio is next to nonexistent too. In full disclosure I have senior eyes and ears too but even with glasses the type is too tiny to be useful. Like Hank found, interfaced to my ClearNav the PF Brick is fine.

[Morteza Ansari]

Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display. Unfortunately neither the manufacturer nor PowerFlarm folks think this is a problem. The best answer I got was "this is not a problem, don't use polarized glasses"!!! I don't have that problem with any other avionics.

[bumper[_4_]]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote:
> Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display.

Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center.

Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win!

bumper

[Richard[_9_]]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote: > Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display. Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center. Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win! bumper

The latest Firmware Version of the Butterfly display is out 3.01

It has:

New Features:
• Nondirectional traffic is shown permanently (PCAS)
• Supports PowerFLARM® CORE
• NEAREST-Mode, always automatically shows nearest target
• Units con"gurable
• Enhanced Menu
Improvements:
• Better stability with many received targets
• new dynamical menu for future extensions.
• 3.0.1: Better font readability

I just saw an ADS B target the fonts are much larger and readable.

You need a special cable to update the firmware.

Make the cable instructions and get firmware at

http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/index.php/en/support-english

or send to your dealer or Craggy Aero.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Morteza Ansari]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote:
>
> > Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display.
>
>
>
> Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center.
>
>
>
> Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win!
>
>
>
> bumper

Well, not sure I entirely agree with that. I am pretty sure there are alternate solutions to that though I am not an expert by any stretch of imagination:

http://www.maclife.com/article/news/displaymate_takes_gadgets_and_polarized_sunglasses

With that said, note that all their literature and pictures on their docs/website show the display mounted in horizontal layout which is orientation that does NOT work. This is opposite of how they actually installed the polarizer filter and seems more like a bug advertised as a feature!

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:44:06 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote: > Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display. Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center. Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win! bumper
>
>
>
> The latest Firmware Version of the Butterfly display is out 3.01
>
>
>
> It has:
>
>
>
> New Features:
>
> • Nondirectional traffic is shown permanently (PCAS)
>
> • Supports PowerFLARM® CORE
>
> • NEAREST-Mode, always automatically shows nearest target
>
> • Units con"gurable
>
> • Enhanced Menu
>
> Improvements:
>
> • Better stability with many received targets
>
> • new dynamical menu for future extensions.
>
> • 3.0.1: Better font readability
>
>
>
> I just saw an ADS B target the fonts are much larger and readable.
>
>
>
> You need a special cable to update the firmware.
>
>
>
> Make the cable instructions and get firmware at
>
>
>
> http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/index.php/en/support-english
>
>
>
> or send to your dealer or Craggy Aero.
>
>
>
> Richard
>
> www.craggyaero.com

Richard,

I just downloaded the update but the update instructions are a little vague, at least to me. Only the Butterfly end of the 'special update cable' is shown - what's at the other end? DB9 serial connector, USB connector, or what?

Frank (TA)

[Richard[_9_]]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 3:45:24 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:44:06 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote: > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote: > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote: > Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display. Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center. Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win! bumper > > > > The latest Firmware Version of the Butterfly display is out 3.01 > > > > It has: > > > > New Features: > > • Nondirectional traffic is shown permanently (PCAS) > > • Supports PowerFLARM® CORE > > • NEAREST-Mode, always automatically shows nearest target > > • Units con"gurable > > • Enhanced Menu > > Improvements: > > • Better stability with many received targets > > • new dynamical menu for future extensions. > > • 3.0.1: Better font readability > > > > I just saw an ADS B target the fonts are much larger and readable. > > > > You need a special cable to update the firmware. > > > > Make the cable instructions and get firmware at > > > > http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/index.php/en/support-english > > > > or send to your dealer or Craggy Aero. > > > > Richard > > www.craggyaero.com Richard, I just downloaded the update but the update instructions are a little vague, at least to me. Only the Butterfly end of the 'special update cable' is shown - what's at the other end? DB9 serial connector, USB connector, or what? Frank (TA)

Serial Port on a PC is the rest of the story.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Dec 12, 8:32*pm, Richard > wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 3:45:24 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:44:06 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote: > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote: > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote: > Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display. Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center. Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win! bumper > > > > The latest Firmware Version of the Butterfly display is out 3.01 > > > > It has: > > > > New Features: > > • Nondirectional traffic is shown permanently (PCAS) > > • Supports PowerFLARM® CORE > > • NEAREST-Mode, always automatically shows nearest target > > • Units con"gurable > > • Enhanced Menu > > Improvements: > > • Better stability with many received targets > > • new dynamical menu for future extensions. > > • 3.0.1: Better font readability > > > > I just saw an ADS B target the fonts are much larger and readable. > > > > You need a special cable to update the firmware. > > > > Make the cable instructions and get firmware at > > > >http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/index.php/en/support-english> > > > or send to your dealer or Craggy Aero. > > > > Richard > >www.craggyaero.comRichard, I just downloaded the update but the update instructions are a little vague, at least to me. Only the Butterfly end of the 'special update cable' is shown - what's at the other end? DB9 serial connector, USB connector, or what? Frank (TA)
>
> Serial Port on a PC *is the rest of the story.
>
> Richardwww.craggyaero.com

I think I need to go to a museum to get a PC with a serial port :)

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 12/12/2012 3:27 PM, Morteza Ansari wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote:

>
> Well, not sure I entirely agree with that. I am pretty sure there are
> alternate solutions to that though I am not an expert by any stretch
> of imagination:
>
> http://www.maclife.com/article/news/displaymate_takes_gadgets_and_polarized_sunglasses
>
> With that said, note that all their literature and pictures on their
> docs/website show the display mounted in horizontal layout which is
> orientation that does NOT work. This is opposite of how they actually
> installed the polarizer filter and seems more like a bug advertised
> as a feature!

Recently, I tried buy non-polarized clip-on or flip-up sunglasses for my
prescription glasses. There hundreds, but all were polarized. Does
anyone know where non-polarized clip-ons or flip-ups can be found?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Ramy]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 3:27:21 PM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > bumper
>
>
>
> Well, not sure I entirely agree with that. I am pretty sure there are alternate solutions to that though I am not an expert by any stretch of imagination:
>
>
>
> http://www.maclife.com/article/news/displaymate_takes_gadgets_and_polarized_sunglasses
>
>
>
> With that said, note that all their literature and pictures on their docs/website show the display mounted in horizontal layout which is orientation that does NOT work. This is opposite of how they actually installed the polarizer filter and seems more like a bug advertised as a feature!

I agree with Morteza, the polarizer filter should have match the most common layout, which is most likely horizontal. Or they could have provided 2 versions. Perhaps if we put more pressure they will. However with some effort you will most likely find a place to mount it vertically as I did, or switch to the in panel display if you have space, as it is polarized correctly and has louder volume.

Ramy

[John Strzebrakowski]

I bought a pair (non polarized) in NZ a few years ago.

http://www.opticaaccessories.com/catalog/Clip-Ons---Flip-Ups-100502.htmx?parentcategory=100502

At 04:05 13 December 2012, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>On 12/12/2012 3:27 PM, Morteza Ansari wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, not sure I entirely agree with that. I am pretty sure there are
>> alternate solutions to that though I am not an expert by any stretch
>> of imagination:
>>
>>
>http://www.maclife.com/article/news/displaymate_takes_gadgets_and_polarized_sunglasses
>>
>> With that said, note that all their literature and pictures on their
>> docs/website show the display mounted in horizontal layout which is
>> orientation that does NOT work. This is opposite of how they actually
>> installed the polarizer filter and seems more like a bug advertised
>> as a feature!
>
>Recently, I tried buy non-polarized clip-on or flip-up sunglasses for my
>prescription glasses. There hundreds, but all were polarized. Does
>anyone know where non-polarized clip-ons or flip-ups can be found?
>
>--
>Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>email me)
>

[Luke Szczepaniak]

>
> Recently, I tried buy non-polarized clip-on or flip-up sunglasses for my
> prescription glasses. There hundreds, but all were polarized. Does
> anyone know where non-polarized clip-ons or flip-ups can be found?
>

Any reputable optometrist should be able to put non polarized lenses in
your clipon glasses - when I bought my first pair of corrective glasses
the clipons that came by default were polarized, i asked for them to be
replaced with non polarized lenses, it added the benefit of choosing the
tint I wanted. Additionally I would recommend getting corrective
sunglasses instead of clipons for your regular glasses.. I found the
clipons let in too much light between the tinted lens and the corrective
lens. When buying dedicated prescription sunglasses you can choose non
polarized lens.

Cheers,
Luke

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:33:23 PM UTC-5, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
> > > Recently, I tried buy non-polarized clip-on or flip-up sunglasses for my > prescription glasses. There hundreds, but all were polarized. Does > anyone know where non-polarized clip-ons or flip-ups can be found? > Any reputable optometrist should be able to put non polarized lenses in your clipon glasses - when I bought my first pair of corrective glasses the clipons that came by default were polarized, i asked for them to be replaced with non polarized lenses, it added the benefit of choosing the tint I wanted. Additionally I would recommend getting corrective sunglasses instead of clipons for your regular glasses.. I found the clipons let in too much light between the tinted lens and the corrective lens. When buying dedicated prescription sunglasses you can choose non polarized lens. Cheers, Luke

So- I lose the polarization which I find is a big help in cloud reading, so that I can read a Flarm display.
Not the best trade off for this pilot.
UH

[Luke Szczepaniak]

On 12/13/2012 1:39 PM, wrote:
> On Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:33:23 PM UTC-5, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
>>>> Recently, I tried buy non-polarized clip-on or flip-up sunglasses for my > prescription glasses. There hundreds, but all were polarized. Does > anyone know where non-polarized clip-ons or flip-ups can be found? > Any reputable optometrist should be able to put non polarized lenses in your clipon glasses - when I bought my first pair of corrective glasses the clipons that came by default were polarized, i asked for them to be replaced with non polarized lenses, it added the benefit of choosing the tint I wanted. Additionally I would recommend getting corrective sunglasses instead of clipons for your regular glasses.. I found the clipons let in too much light between the tinted lens and the corrective lens. When buying dedicated prescription sunglasses you can choose non polarized lens. Cheers, Luke
>
> So- I lose the polarization which I find is a big help in cloud reading, so that I can read a Flarm display.
> Not the best trade off for this pilot.
> UH
>
I did not realize polarized glasses helped with cloud reading. During
training we were told not to purchase polarized glasses as it may
produce blind spots due to refraction issues/imperfect canopies etc...
Since then I've always been under the (apparently mistaken)impression
that most pilots flew with non-polarized glasses, and have avoided
purchasing anything with polarization. I'll have to give polarized
lenses a try see if they help! I much rather see clearly outside than
any instruments in the cockpit.

Cheers,
Luke

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 17:55:37 -0800, Andrzej Kobus wrote:

>
> I think I need to go to a museum to get a PC with a serial port :)
>
The pin-outs are available on the 'net.
A search for "d-9 serial pinout" will find what you need.

There is a still a lot of workshop and test-bench equipment that uses
serial connections. For some things you want a serial connection that can
be secured with screws and is not easily jerked out like a USB plug.
Fortunately multi-port serial PCI adapters are easy to find if your PC
doesn't do serial.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Ramy]

On Thursday, December 13, 2012 10:56:34 AM UTC-8, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
> On 12/13/2012 1:39 PM, wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:33:23 PM UTC-5, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
>
> >>>> Recently, I tried buy non-polarized clip-on or flip-up sunglasses for my > prescription glasses. There hundreds, but all were polarized. Does > anyone know where non-polarized clip-ons or flip-ups can be found? > Any reputable optometrist should be able to put non polarized lenses in your clipon glasses - when I bought my first pair of corrective glasses the clipons that came by default were polarized, i asked for them to be replaced with non polarized lenses, it added the benefit of choosing the tint I wanted. Additionally I would recommend getting corrective sunglasses instead of clipons for your regular glasses.. I found the clipons let in too much light between the tinted lens and the corrective lens. When buying dedicated prescription sunglasses you can choose non polarized lens. Cheers, Luke
>
> >
>
> > So- I lose the polarization which I find is a big help in cloud reading, so that I can read a Flarm display.
>
> > Not the best trade off for this pilot.
>
> > UH
>
> >
>
> I did not realize polarized glasses helped with cloud reading. During
>
> training we were told not to purchase polarized glasses as it may
>
> produce blind spots due to refraction issues/imperfect canopies etc...
>
> Since then I've always been under the (apparently mistaken)impression
>
> that most pilots flew with non-polarized glasses, and have avoided
>
> purchasing anything with polarization. I'll have to give polarized
>
> lenses a try see if they help! I much rather see clearly outside than
>
> any instruments in the cockpit.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Luke

There are those who swear by polarized glasses (like myself) and those who don't. I only fly with polarized glasses as I find them improving visibility of clouds, haze domes AND other gliders significantly, as well as reducing canopy reflections. I suspect those who claim otherwise didn't give them a try. I definitely not intend to give up my polarized glasses so I can read the flarm display. The solution as I suggested earlier is to rotate the display or switch to the panel mount display. Perhaps putting more pressure on the butterfly folks to address this issue will help.

Ramy

[Kimmo Hytoenen]

Reflected light can get polarized, and then filtered totally by lenses
with 90 degree difference in polarization angle. Therefore using
polarized lenses is not a good idea IMHO.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:36:40 PM UTC-8, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
> Reflected light can get polarized, and then filtered totally by lenses
>
> with 90 degree difference in polarization angle. Therefore using
>
> polarized lenses is not a good idea IMHO.

And so what? That would be an issue if specular reflected polarized light the only thing we see other aircraft with. Polarized sunglasses can also significantly darken a sky, making a white glider stand out more. There is not a single scientific study that I am aware of that properly studies all the factors and addresses the real visibility of other aircraft and whether you wear polarized glasses or not. The FAA does not offer any useful proof/research here but keep repeating this specular reflection/visibility point, and is what basically appears to be somebody's tarted up opinion.

The real issues I've run into over years of flying power aircraft and gliders with polarized sunglasses are certain instruments/displays or stress patterns in some aircraft windows. And here is the IQ test... you get to try those out on the ground before you fly and make a decision if its OK or not.

Darryl

[Jim[_32_]]

On Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:56:34 PM UTC-5, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
> On 12/13/2012 1:39 PM, wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:33:23 PM UTC-5, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
>
> >>>> Recently, I tried buy non-polarized clip-on or flip-up sunglasses for my > prescription glasses. There hundreds, but all were polarized. Does > anyone know where non-polarized clip-ons or flip-ups can be found? > Any reputable optometrist should be able to put non polarized lenses in your clipon glasses - when I bought my first pair of corrective glasses the clipons that came by default were polarized, i asked for them to be replaced with non polarized lenses, it added the benefit of choosing the tint I wanted. Additionally I would recommend getting corrective sunglasses instead of clipons for your regular glasses.. I found the clipons let in too much light between the tinted lens and the corrective lens. When buying dedicated prescription sunglasses you can choose non polarized lens. Cheers, Luke
>
> >
>
> > So- I lose the polarization which I find is a big help in cloud reading, so that I can read a Flarm display.
>
> > Not the best trade off for this pilot.
>
> > UH
>
> >
>
> I did not realize polarized glasses helped with cloud reading. During
>
> training we were told not to purchase polarized glasses as it may
>
> produce blind spots due to refraction issues/imperfect canopies etc...
>
> Since then I've always been under the (apparently mistaken)impression
>
> that most pilots flew with non-polarized glasses, and have avoided
>
> purchasing anything with polarization. I'll have to give polarized
>
> lenses a try see if they help! I much rather see clearly outside than
>
> any instruments in the cockpit.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Luke

Luke, I bet then that no one has told you of the special "thermal coloring glasses" (works just like in Condor).

;)

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:44:06 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote: > Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display. Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center. Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win! bumper
>
>
>
> The latest Firmware Version of the Butterfly display is out 3.01
>
>
>
> It has:
>
>
>
> New Features:
>
> • Nondirectional traffic is shown permanently (PCAS)
>
> • Supports PowerFLARM® CORE
>
> • NEAREST-Mode, always automatically shows nearest target
>
> • Units con"gurable
>
> • Enhanced Menu
>
> Improvements:
>
> • Better stability with many received targets
>
> • new dynamical menu for future extensions.
>
> • 3.0.1: Better font readability
>
>
>
> I just saw an ADS B target the fonts are much larger and readable.
>
>
>
> You need a special cable to update the firmware.
>
>
>
> Make the cable instructions and get firmware at
>
>
>
> http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/index.php/en/support-english
>
>
>
> or send to your dealer or Craggy Aero.
>
>
>
> Richard
>
> www.craggyaero.com

All,

I looked at the update information, and although it specified what connector pins on the display connector (RJ-12) were to be connected to what pins on a PC serial connector, it didn't specify the connector itself or address the issue of how one determines whether or not the PC can supply 3.3vdc on pin 5. I emailed the Butterfly folks, and I have copied the reply here. You will note that the reply still doesn't directly address the 3.3vdc issue, but at this point I'm confident enough that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and give it a whirl.

Frank (TA)

------------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------
Aktualisiert von: Frank Paynter, 14. Dez 15:40 (CET):
Hi,

I would like to update the firmware on my PowerFlarm Butterfly display, but
I'm a bit confused by the directions for fabricating the required update
cable. Note that I'm an Electrical Engineer with over 40 years of bench
design and fabrication experience, so if I'm confused, I expect others are
as well.

The instructions provide a pinout for the display-end connector, with notes
as to where each pin should go on the PC end. However, the PC-end
connector isn't specified - is it supposed to be a DB9 serial connector?
If so, you must know that DB9 serial connectors aren't widely available on
modern PC's; I have 6 PCs in my home office, and not one of them has a DB9
serial connector. When I need serial port connectivity, I use a popular
USB-serial adapter. Will your display update properly when using such an
adapter?

Your specification calls for pin 5 of the RJ-12 connector to be tied to
+3.3VDC, but this isn't a common voltage for serial communications. What
happens if this line is connected to +5 or even +12 VDC?

Regards,

Frank

Aktualisiert von: Marc Foerderer, 17. Dez 11:54 (CET):
Dear Frank,

thanks for your message.

Yes a normal RS232 to USB adapter works fine, the connector depends of course on your use-case. Most PCs or at least RS232 serial adapters have a DB9 connector.

3v3DC is the supply voltage for the device itself, the RS232 pins are 12V tolerant.

If you have more questions, please contact me

Best regards
Marc Förderer
Butterfly Avionics GmbH

------------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------

[bumper[_4_]]

On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:02:00 AM UTC-8, wrote:
I'm confident enough that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and give it a whirl.
>
>
>
> Frank (TA)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------
>
> Aktualisiert von: Frank Paynter, 14. Dez 15:40 (CET):
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I would like to update the firmware on my PowerFlarm Butterfly display, but
>
> I'm a bit confused by the directions for fabricating the required update
>
> cable. Note that I'm an Electrical Engineer with over 40 years of bench
>
> design and fabrication experience, so if I'm confused, I expect others are
>
> as well.
>
>
>
> The instructions provide a pinout for the display-end connector, with notes
>
> as to where each pin should go on the PC end. However, the PC-end
>
> connector isn't specified - is it supposed to be a DB9 serial connector?
>
> If so, you must know that DB9 serial connectors aren't widely available on
>
> modern PC's; I have 6 PCs in my home office, and not one of them has a DB9
>
> serial connector. When I need serial port connectivity, I use a popular
>
> USB-serial adapter. Will your display update properly when using such an
>
> adapter?
>
>
>
> Your specification calls for pin 5 of the RJ-12 connector to be tied to
>
> +3.3VDC, but this isn't a common voltage for serial communications. What
>
> happens if this line is connected to +5 or even +12 VDC?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Frank
>

Frank,

Please post an update if all goes well. I prefer not to tune my device for maximum smoke if there is some other brave soul willing to go first!

tks

bumper

[Dave Leonard]

On Monday, December 17, 2012 10:02:00 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:44:06 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote: > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:28:43 AM UTC-8, bumper wrote: > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:17:39 AM UTC-8, Morteza Ansari wrote: > Not sure which butterfly display we are talking about, but the rectangular display that comes with the brick is anything but *useless* to anyone flying with polarized sun glasses. It is polarized incorrectly which means if you mount it in horizontal orientation you see practically nothing on the display. Yes, but it works just fine with my polarized glasses in the vertical mode. So I made a bracket to hold it at the edge of the glareshield to the left of center. Since the device and display are rotatable in increments of 90 degrees, and since all LCD displays I've seen are polarized in one plane or another, Butterfly had to pick one knowing full well that it would please some and offend others of the polarized sun glassed crowd. No way for them to win! bumper > > > > The latest Firmware Version of the Butterfly display is out 3.01 > > > > It has: > > > > New Features: > > • Nondirectional traffic is shown permanently (PCAS) > > • Supports PowerFLARM® CORE > > • NEAREST-Mode, always automatically shows nearest target > > • Units con"gurable > > • Enhanced Menu > > Improvements: > > • Better stability with many received targets > > • new dynamical menu for future extensions. > > • 3.0.1: Better font readability > > > > I just saw an ADS B target the fonts are much larger and readable. > > > > You need a special cable to update the firmware. > > > > Make the cable instructions and get firmware at > > > > http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/index.php/en/support-english > > > > or send to your dealer or Craggy Aero. > > > > Richard > > www.craggyaero.com All, I looked at the update information, and although it specified what connector pins on the display connector (RJ-12) were to be connected to what pins on a PC serial connector, it didn't specify the connector itself or address the issue of how one determines whether or not the PC can supply 3.3vdc on pin 5. I emailed the Butterfly folks, and I have copied the reply here. You will note that the reply still doesn't directly address the 3.3vdc issue, but at this point I'm confident enough that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and give it a whirl. Frank (TA)

That 3.3 V is the supply voltage. There is not likely to be a regulator in the display module. Odds are pretty good that putting 5 V on the 3.3 V supply input will kill it. Putting 12 V on the 3.3 V input will almost certainly kill it.

-Dave
ZL

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:06:01 PM UTC-5, bumper wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:02:00 AM UTC-8, wrote:
>
> I'm confident enough that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and give it a whirl.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Frank (TA)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------
>
> >
>
> > Aktualisiert von: Frank Paynter, 14. Dez 15:40 (CET):
>
> >
>
> > Hi,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I would like to update the firmware on my PowerFlarm Butterfly display, but
>
> >
>
> > I'm a bit confused by the directions for fabricating the required update
>
> >
>
> > cable. Note that I'm an Electrical Engineer with over 40 years of bench
>
> >
>
> > design and fabrication experience, so if I'm confused, I expect others are
>
> >
>
> > as well.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The instructions provide a pinout for the display-end connector, with notes
>
> >
>
> > as to where each pin should go on the PC end. However, the PC-end
>
> >
>
> > connector isn't specified - is it supposed to be a DB9 serial connector?
>
> >
>
> > If so, you must know that DB9 serial connectors aren't widely available on
>
> >
>
> > modern PC's; I have 6 PCs in my home office, and not one of them has a DB9
>
> >
>
> > serial connector. When I need serial port connectivity, I use a popular
>
> >
>
> > USB-serial adapter. Will your display update properly when using such an
>
> >
>
> > adapter?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Your specification calls for pin 5 of the RJ-12 connector to be tied to
>
> >
>
> > +3.3VDC, but this isn't a common voltage for serial communications. What
>
> >
>
> > happens if this line is connected to +5 or even +12 VDC?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Frank
>
> >
>
>
>
> Frank,
>
>
>
> Please post an update if all goes well. I prefer not to tune my device for maximum smoke if there is some other brave soul willing to go first!
>
>
>
> tks
>
>
>
> bumper

You guys do know about this, yes? (From external display manual)

"Updates
Update through PowerFLARM®
After Q4/2012 it will be possible to update the displays through any PowerFLARM® unit
directly without the need for a special cable."

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[Bob Gibbons[_2_]]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 09:02:00 -0800 (PST), wrote:
..... text deleted
>
>I looked at the update information, and although it specified what connector
>pins on the display connector (RJ-12) were to be connected to what pins on a PC
>serial connector, it didn't specify the connector itself or address the issue of how >
>one determines whether or not the PC can supply 3.3vdc on pin 5. I emailed the
>Butterfly folks, and I have copied the reply here. You will note that the reply still
>doesn't directly address the 3.3vdc issue, but at this point I'm confident enough
>that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and
>give it a whirl.
>
>Frank (TA)

I have one of the standard Flarm display updaters. It uses a normal 9v
transister-type battery (e.g., MN1604) that is fed into a voltage
regulator that drops the output to the required 3.3v. Two cables are
involved, a standard DB9 going to the serial port, and a RJ-11 (or
RJ-12) going to the display.

I have used this unit both with older PCs with a serial port, and with
newer PCs using a serial-usb converter.

Another option for those electrically inclined is shown on 3U's
website. This approaches uses the USB port directly, at the expense of
more complicated circuitry.
https://sites.google.com/site/threeuniform/powerflarm/butterfly-display

Bob

[Bob Gibbons[_2_]]

On the theory that a picture is worth a thousand words, here is that
the standard updater looks like;

http://www.butterfly-store.de/en/Update+cable+Butterfly+Display,i13.htm

Bob


On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:11:31 -0600, Bob Gibbons >
wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 09:02:00 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>.... text deleted
>>
>>I looked at the update information, and although it specified what connector
>>pins on the display connector (RJ-12) were to be connected to what pins on a PC
>>serial connector, it didn't specify the connector itself or address the issue of how >
>>one determines whether or not the PC can supply 3.3vdc on pin 5. I emailed the
>>Butterfly folks, and I have copied the reply here. You will note that the reply still
>>doesn't directly address the 3.3vdc issue, but at this point I'm confident enough
>>that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and
>>give it a whirl.
>>
>>Frank (TA)
>
>I have one of the standard Flarm display updaters. It uses a normal 9v
>transister-type battery (e.g., MN1604) that is fed into a voltage
>regulator that drops the output to the required 3.3v. Two cables are
>involved, a standard DB9 going to the serial port, and a RJ-11 (or
>RJ-12) going to the display.
>
>I have used this unit both with older PCs with a serial port, and with
>newer PCs using a serial-usb converter.
>
>Another option for those electrically inclined is shown on 3U's
>website. This approaches uses the USB port directly, at the expense of
>more complicated circuitry.
>https://sites.google.com/site/threeuniform/powerflarm/butterfly-display
>
>Bob

[[email protected]]

two AA or two AAA batteries will give you 3 volts which is enough to power the butterfly display for the update if you use fresh batteries

OR

upgrade to a FlarmView and just save the new data to the mini SD card and bypass the HeathKit cable making process entirely and as a bonus you get the nice screen and lots more configuration options

[[email protected]]

On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:43:38 PM UTC-5, Evan Ludeman wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:06:01 PM UTC-5, bumper wrote:
>
> > On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:02:00 AM UTC-8, wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I'm confident enough that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and give it a whirl.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Frank (TA)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > ------------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Aktualisiert von: Frank Paynter, 14. Dez 15:40 (CET):
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Hi,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I would like to update the firmware on my PowerFlarm Butterfly display, but
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I'm a bit confused by the directions for fabricating the required update
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > cable. Note that I'm an Electrical Engineer with over 40 years of bench
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > design and fabrication experience, so if I'm confused, I expect others are
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > as well.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The instructions provide a pinout for the display-end connector, with notes
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > as to where each pin should go on the PC end. However, the PC-end
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > connector isn't specified - is it supposed to be a DB9 serial connector?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > If so, you must know that DB9 serial connectors aren't widely available on
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > modern PC's; I have 6 PCs in my home office, and not one of them has a DB9
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > serial connector. When I need serial port connectivity, I use a popular
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > USB-serial adapter. Will your display update properly when using such an
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > adapter?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Your specification calls for pin 5 of the RJ-12 connector to be tied to
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > +3.3VDC, but this isn't a common voltage for serial communications. What
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > happens if this line is connected to +5 or even +12 VDC?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Regards,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Frank
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Frank,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Please post an update if all goes well. I prefer not to tune my device for maximum smoke if there is some other brave soul willing to go first!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > tks
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > bumper
>
>
>
> You guys do know about this, yes? (From external display manual)
>
>
>
> "Updates
>
> Update through PowerFLARM®
>
> After Q4/2012 it will be possible to update the displays through any PowerFLARM® unit
>
> directly without the need for a special cable."
>
>
>
> -Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan,

Just saw this myself in the Butterfly manual - wonder why they didn't mention this in the response to my email?

Frank (TA)

[Jim[_32_]]

On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:56:36 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:43:38 PM UTC-5, Evan Ludeman wrote:
>
> > On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:06:01 PM UTC-5, bumper wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:02:00 AM UTC-8, wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I'm confident enough that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and give it a whirl.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Frank (TA)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > ------------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Aktualisiert von: Frank Paynter, 14. Dez 15:40 (CET):
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Hi,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I would like to update the firmware on my PowerFlarm Butterfly display, but
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I'm a bit confused by the directions for fabricating the required update
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > cable. Note that I'm an Electrical Engineer with over 40 years of bench
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > design and fabrication experience, so if I'm confused, I expect others are
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > as well.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > The instructions provide a pinout for the display-end connector, with notes
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > as to where each pin should go on the PC end. However, the PC-end
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > connector isn't specified - is it supposed to be a DB9 serial connector?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > If so, you must know that DB9 serial connectors aren't widely available on
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > modern PC's; I have 6 PCs in my home office, and not one of them has a DB9
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > serial connector. When I need serial port connectivity, I use a popular
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > USB-serial adapter. Will your display update properly when using such an
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > adapter?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Your specification calls for pin 5 of the RJ-12 connector to be tied to
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > +3.3VDC, but this isn't a common voltage for serial communications. What
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > happens if this line is connected to +5 or even +12 VDC?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Regards,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Frank
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Frank,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Please post an update if all goes well. I prefer not to tune my device for maximum smoke if there is some other brave soul willing to go first!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > tks
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > bumper
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You guys do know about this, yes? (From external display manual)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "Updates
>
> >
>
> > Update through PowerFLARM®
>
> >
>
> > After Q4/2012 it will be possible to update the displays through any PowerFLARM® unit
>
> >
>
> > directly without the need for a special cable."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -Evan Ludeman / T8
>
>
>
> Evan,
>
>
>
> Just saw this myself in the Butterfly manual - wonder why they didn't mention this in the response to my email?
>
>
>
> Frank (TA)

Hi Frank, I built my update cable several weeks ago (for the last update and to download flarmnet info) and it worked just fine with 2 AA batteries (just as someone else mentioned in this thread). RS232 adapters don't ever work well for me on laptops so the only reliable serial port I have is on my desktop. Since my rectangular display is screwed to my panel with the 4 provided screws I think I will wait until the post-Q4-instructions to magically appear just to save the hassle of un-mounting the display yet again.

[[email protected]]

All,

Here is the email I sent to Butterfly, and their response. Assuming the FLARM guys aren't too late with their next update, that sure sounds like the way to go [sound of partially made cable hitting trashcan]

Frank (TA)

-------------------------- CUT HERE -----------------------------------
Dear Frank,

>+12VDC supply damage the display?
yep, definitely. The display can work with 3V to 3.6VDC, all above will damage the unit.
Core/Brick Updating: We are literally just working on this this week. It will be included in the next PowerFLARM release which will come soon in the new year (this depends on FLARM in Switzerland, the display-updating-routine is only a small part of the release)

Best wishes
Marc


Aktualisiert von: Frank Paynter, 18. Dez 16:08 (CET):
Marc,

A couple of questions:

Can I connect the 3.3vdc line to the DB9 +V line (typically +5 to +12VDC)
or do I need to supply 3.3VDC somehow? In other words, would a +5 or
+12VDC supply damage the display?

There is a note in your current manual about the upcoming ability to update
a Butterfly display via an attached FLARM 'brick' (Core) device. Is this
ability available now? If not, can you give me an estimate of when it will
become available? Obviously, eliminating the need for a separate update
cable would be welcome indeed!

TIA,

Frank

-------------------------- CUT HERE -----------------------------------



On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:17:51 PM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:56:36 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> > On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:43:38 PM UTC-5, Evan Ludeman wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:06:01 PM UTC-5, bumper wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:02:00 AM UTC-8, wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I'm confident enough that its not going to be a problem that I plan to fabricate a RJ12-DB9 cable and give it a whirl.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Frank (TA)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > ------------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Aktualisiert von: Frank Paynter, 14. Dez 15:40 (CET):
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Hi,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > I would like to update the firmware on my PowerFlarm Butterfly display, but
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > I'm a bit confused by the directions for fabricating the required update
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > cable. Note that I'm an Electrical Engineer with over 40 years of bench
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > design and fabrication experience, so if I'm confused, I expect others are
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > as well.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > The instructions provide a pinout for the display-end connector, with notes
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > as to where each pin should go on the PC end. However, the PC-end
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > connector isn't specified - is it supposed to be a DB9 serial connector?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > If so, you must know that DB9 serial connectors aren't widely available on
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > modern PC's; I have 6 PCs in my home office, and not one of them has a DB9
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > serial connector. When I need serial port connectivity, I use a popular
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > USB-serial adapter. Will your display update properly when using such an
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > adapter?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Your specification calls for pin 5 of the RJ-12 connector to be tied to
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > +3.3VDC, but this isn't a common voltage for serial communications. What
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > happens if this line is connected to +5 or even +12 VDC?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Regards,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Frank
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Frank,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Please post an update if all goes well. I prefer not to tune my device for maximum smoke if there is some other brave soul willing to go first!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > tks
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > bumper
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > You guys do know about this, yes? (From external display manual)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > "Updates
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Update through PowerFLARM®
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > After Q4/2012 it will be possible to update the displays through any PowerFLARM® unit
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > directly without the need for a special cable."
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > -Evan Ludeman / T8
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Evan,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Just saw this myself in the Butterfly manual - wonder why they didn't mention this in the response to my email?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Frank (TA)
>
>
>
> Hi Frank, I built my update cable several weeks ago (for the last update and to download flarmnet info) and it worked just fine with 2 AA batteries (just as someone else mentioned in this thread). RS232 adapters don't ever work well for me on laptops so the only reliable serial port I have is on my desktop. Since my rectangular display is screwed to my panel with the 4 provided screws I think I will wait until the post-Q4-instructions to magically appear just to save the hassle of un-mounting the display yet again.

[glen]

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:42:27 PM UTC-5, SteveB_Z5 wrote:
> I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve

How is the Flarm display on a PDA using See You or the Ilec SN 10 display.

[Richard[_9_]]

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 4:58:53 PM UTC-8, glen wrote:
> On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:42:27 PM UTC-5, SteveB_Z5 wrote: > I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve How is the Flarm display on a PDA using See You or the Ilec SN 10 display.

Glen,

SeeYou Mobile displays PowerFlarm and ADS-B targets as smaller gliders, with climb rate and altitude. When you lose Flarm lock a dot remains for the time you specify on the setup page. One can fly to the dot and zoom into the thermal track. You can color by altitude or make the glider larger or smaller. Warnings are white box across the top and the lady alerts you of traffic. "Traffic 5 oclock 50 feet low".

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Ramy]

On Friday, December 21, 2012 12:44:19 PM UTC-8, Richard wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 4:58:53 PM UTC-8, glen wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:42:27 PM UTC-5, SteveB_Z5 wrote: > I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve How is the Flarm display on a PDA using See You or the Ilec SN 10 display.
>
>
>
> Glen,
>
>
>
> SeeYou Mobile displays PowerFlarm and ADS-B targets as smaller gliders, with climb rate and altitude. When you lose Flarm lock a dot remains for the time you specify on the setup page. One can fly to the dot and zoom into the thermal track. You can color by altitude or make the glider larger or smaller. Warnings are white box across the top and the lady alerts you of traffic. "Traffic 5 oclock 50 feet low".
>
>
>
> Richard
>
> www.craggyaero.com

Richard, how well the flarm track features works in your experience? Does it really capable of providing a thermal track, giving that the signal gets frequent drops when thermaling?

Ramy

[Richard[_9_]]

On Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:07:56 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> On Friday, December 21, 2012 12:44:19 PM UTC-8, Richard wrote: > On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 4:58:53 PM UTC-8, glen wrote: > > > On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:42:27 PM UTC-5, SteveB_Z5 wrote: > I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve How is the Flarm display on a PDA using See You or the Ilec SN 10 display. > > > > Glen, > > > > SeeYou Mobile displays PowerFlarm and ADS-B targets as smaller gliders, with climb rate and altitude. When you lose Flarm lock a dot remains for the time you specify on the setup page. One can fly to the dot and zoom into the thermal track. You can color by altitude or make the glider larger or smaller. Warnings are white box across the top and the lady alerts you of traffic. "Traffic 5 oclock 50 feet low". > > > > Richard > > www.craggyaero.com Richard, how well the flarm track features works in your experience? Does it really capable of providing a thermal track, giving that the signal gets frequent drops when thermaling? Ramy

Ramy,

Using SeeYou Mobile PNA on my Ultimate Le it works very well. When you lose lock on a glider a dot remains. You can set the time the dot will remain in the software. Fly to the dot and zoom in. I use a Nav Box that is assigned a zoom in function and one with a zoom out function. I have used Powerflarm in two contests with about 20 gliders equiped in each contest, and have about 300 flying hours using PowerFlarm. I really don't see dropout and when I do zoom in I see the thermal track. You get a good thermal track as it is recorded I beleive every second. The dot also has the altitude and last climb rate so I am assuming that many times the lock is lost as the glider leaves the thermal. Sometimes the dot is not in the same place as the thermal track but when flying to it and zooming in you will find it.

thanks,

Richard

[Richard[_9_]]

On Saturday, December 22, 2012 1:07:56 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> On Friday, December 21, 2012 12:44:19 PM UTC-8, Richard wrote: > On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 4:58:53 PM UTC-8, glen wrote: > > > On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:42:27 PM UTC-5, SteveB_Z5 wrote: > I'm thinking about getting a Power Flarm brick. What do users think of the display? Sun and shade readability? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve How is the Flarm display on a PDA using See You or the Ilec SN 10 display. > > > > Glen, > > > > SeeYou Mobile displays PowerFlarm and ADS-B targets as smaller gliders, with climb rate and altitude. When you lose Flarm lock a dot remains for the time you specify on the setup page. One can fly to the dot and zoom into the thermal track. You can color by altitude or make the glider larger or smaller. Warnings are white box across the top and the lady alerts you of traffic. "Traffic 5 oclock 50 feet low". > > > > Richard > > www.craggyaero.com Richard, how well the flarm track features works in your experience? Does it really capable of providing a thermal track, giving that the signal gets frequent drops when thermaling? Ramy

Ramy,

I don't think you necessiliary lose a lock when thermaling, you just don't get alerts. I really don't remember ever seeing the dot during thermalling only the gliders. Mostly I would see the Dots out 4 to 6 nautical miles, when they get out of range. Other times you just see the gliders circling.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[John Carlyle]

My Butterfly 57mm display is running firmware V.2.9.4. FLARM promised in December that the "next PowerFLARM release which will come soon in the new year" will upgrade displays without using the special Butterfly cable. The only PowerFLARM release I can find is V2.40 from July 24, 2012. This of course is older than the V2.71 that was used to get the PowerFLARM IGC flight recorder approval.

QUESTIONS
1) Does V2.71 have the display updating code?
2) Can one download V2.71 from somewhere? If so, what's the URL?

-John, Q3


On Monday, December 17, 2012 2:43:38 PM UTC-5, Evan Ludeman wrote:
>
> You guys do know about this, yes? (From external display manual)
>
> "Updates
>
> Update through PowerFLARM®
>
> After Q4/2012 it will be possible to update the displays through any PowerFLARM® unit directly without the need for a special cable."
>
> -Evan Ludeman / T8

[Ramy]

Yes. There is a beta version which works well, but I think it is not public. Not sure why.

Ramy

[John Carlyle]

Interesting and encouraging. Hopefully the beta will be released publicly soon.

When you say "works well", do you mean that it updates the display without special cables, as well as doing the FLARM anti-collision and logging work?

I did find version 2.60 from Oct 2012. For some reason (maybe the formatting on the PowerFLARM.us site) I missed seeing it yesterday.

-John, Q3


On Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:53:35 AM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> Yes. There is a beta version which works well, but I think it is not public. Not sure why.
>
> Ramy

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Sunday, March 17, 2013 8:35:16 AM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
> Interesting and encouraging. Hopefully the beta will be released publicly soon.
>
>
>
> When you say "works well", do you mean that it updates the display without special cables, as well as doing the FLARM anti-collision and logging work?
>
>
>
> I did find version 2.60 from Oct 2012. For some reason (maybe the formatting on the PowerFLARM.us site) I missed seeing it yesterday.
>
>
>
> -John, Q3
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:53:35 AM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
>
> > Yes. There is a beta version which works well, but I think it is not public. Not sure why.
>
> >
>
> > Ramy

2.60 adds (non igc approved) flight logging but not the display update pass through. I flew with 2.60 today. My only complaint about log file transfer is that it's blind since I use a USB extension and I can't see the little blinking light on my Core unit. Flarm guys **please** give us some way to monitor file xfer on the butterfly display.

Other comments... lots of adsb traffic visible on ClearNav today, most in the flight levels of course, but two contact down around 6k - 7k. Tens of miles range. Right now, CN displays these adsb targets as other *gliders*. I've put in a suggestion about that. Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one or two miles *at best*. Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles. Not a peep :-(.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 3/17/2013 6:03 PM, Evan Ludeman wrote:
> My only complaint about log file transfer is that it's blind since I
> use a USB extension and I can't see the little blinking light on my
> Core unit. Flarm guys **please** give us some way to monitor file
> xfer on the butterfly display.

How about the light on the USB stick? It should blink while files are
being downloaded, and stop when it's done. That's how I know CN is done
downloading the IGC file.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Sunday, March 17, 2013 10:02:10 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 3/17/2013 6:03 PM, Evan Ludeman wrote:
>
> > My only complaint about log file transfer is that it's blind since I
>
> > use a USB extension and I can't see the little blinking light on my
>
> > Core unit. Flarm guys **please** give us some way to monitor file
>
> > xfer on the butterfly display.
>
>
>
> How about the light on the USB stick? It should blink while files are
>
> being downloaded, and stop when it's done. That's how I know CN is done
>
> downloading the IGC file.
>

I'm using el cheapo 4 GB half size USB drives for soaring, like these: http://tinyurl.com/c722utl, no lights.

CN gives feedback from display, lets you know what's happening. Flarm should do likewise. My $0.02.

T8

[Ramy]

Yes, the 2.7 beta works well for updating powerflarm display without the cable, for IGC and Flarm traffic.

Ramy

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 1:56:32 AM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> Yes, the 2.7 beta works well for updating powerflarm display without the cable, for IGC and Flarm traffic.
>
>
>
> Ramy

If there's a public 2.7x beta, please provide a link.

T8

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 17, 6:03*pm, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>*Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one or two miles *at best*. >*Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles. *Not a peep :-(.


I'm glad to hear another report of this. It exactly matches my
experience. Head on traffic less than a mile away - in sight ,
alerted by ZAON PCAS, and Power FLARM portable indicated nothing!

I hope FLARM will eventually recognize this problem and correct it.
Until then I don't fly without my ZAON MRX.

Andy

[John Carlyle]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:44:54 AM UTC-4, Andy wrote:
> On Mar 17, 6:03*pm, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>
> >*Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one or two miles *at best*. >*Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles. *Not a peep :-(.
>
>
> I'm glad to hear another report of this. It exactly matches my
>
> experience. Head on traffic less than a mile away - in sight ,
>
> alerted by ZAON PCAS, and Power FLARM portable indicated nothing!
>
> I hope FLARM will eventually recognize this problem and correct it.
>
> Until then I don't fly without my ZAON MRX.
>
> Andy

I seem to remember about a year ago Darryl Ramm wrote about the difficulties involved in doing what the Zaon MRX does so well. There are a lot of non-trivial problems to be solved, it's by no means straight forward.

I'll see if I can find his post; if I do I'll write again. Or perhaps Darryl will see this and re-post his excellent explanation.

-John, Q3

[John Carlyle]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 11:37:46 AM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
> On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:44:54 AM UTC-4, Andy wrote:
>
> > On Mar 17, 6:03*pm, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >*Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one or two miles *at best*. >*Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles. *Not a peep :-(.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I'm glad to hear another report of this. It exactly matches my
>
> >
>
> > experience. Head on traffic less than a mile away - in sight ,
>
> >
>
> > alerted by ZAON PCAS, and Power FLARM portable indicated nothing!
>
> >
>
> > I hope FLARM will eventually recognize this problem and correct it.
>
> >
>
> > Until then I don't fly without my ZAON MRX.
>
> >
>
> > Andy
>
>
>
> I seem to remember about a year ago Darryl Ramm wrote about the difficulties involved in doing what the Zaon MRX does so well. There are a lot of non-trivial problems to be solved, it's by no means straight forward.
>
>
>
> I'll see if I can find his post; if I do I'll write again. Or perhaps Darryl will see this and re-post his excellent explanation.
>
>
>
> -John, Q3

Darryl had two really good posts on the Zaon MRX that I was remembering:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/4kQNecDnWUU/zhcTC9v2SpkJ
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/49yielb7k_E/edTRxve7aMAJ

Darryl's first post explains some of the problems Zaon deals with in detecting another transponder. His second explains some of the limitations of the Zaon.

It's pretty amazing that the Zaon works as well as it does, and it's also clear that FLARM had a pretty big technical problem on its hands in getting the PowerFLARM to work as well as the Zaon.

-John, Q3

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 3/18/2013 7:44 AM, Andy wrote:
> On Mar 17, 6:03 pm, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>> Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one
>> or two miles *at best*. > Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles.
>> Not a peep :-(.
>
>
> I'm glad to hear another report of this. It exactly matches my
> experience. Head on traffic less than a mile away - in sight ,
> alerted by ZAON PCAS, and Power FLARM portable indicated nothing!
>
> I hope FLARM will eventually recognize this problem and correct it.
> Until then I don't fly without my ZAON MRX.

Are you using the Core or Portable (if so, has it had the recent
hardware upgrade)?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 12:33:55 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 3/18/2013 7:44 AM, Andy wrote:
>
> > On Mar 17, 6:03 pm, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>
> >> Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one
>
> >> or two miles *at best*. > Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles.
>
> >> Not a peep :-(.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I'm glad to hear another report of this. It exactly matches my
>
> > experience. Head on traffic less than a mile away - in sight ,
>
> > alerted by ZAON PCAS, and Power FLARM portable indicated nothing!
>
> >
>
> > I hope FLARM will eventually recognize this problem and correct it.
>
> > Until then I don't fly without my ZAON MRX.
>
>
>
> Are you using the Core or Portable (if so, has it had the recent
>
> hardware upgrade)?

I have one of the first US Core models.

In addition to the problem with range, there is also a serious problem (imo) with presentation. My butterfly display (and so far as I know all of the flarm displays) simply gives a circle and a relative altitude. It's completely useless to me. What would be vastly better is digital presentation of range and relative altitude (like Zaon) and trend indicators on both range and altitude (I think Zaon only indicates trend on alt).

T8

[Brian[_1_]]

> I have one of the first US Core models.
>
>
>
> In addition to the problem with range, there is also a serious problem (imo) with presentation. My butterfly display (and so far as I know all of the flarm displays) simply gives a circle and a relative altitude. It's completely useless to me. What would be vastly better is digital presentation of range and relative altitude (like Zaon) and trend indicators on both range and altitude (I think Zaon only indicates trend on alt).
>
>
>
> T8

I would also be useful if it would show the code they are squawking i.e.

1200 - A VFR aircraft
1202 - Another Glider
02xx - A local IFR aircraft talking to the Local ATC.
03xx - A local VFR aircraft talking to the Local ATC.
43xx - Likely an Airliner or Jet.

Brian

[Paul Remde]

Hi Andy,

Has your PowerFLARM Portable been upgraded as per the recent recall?

Thanks,

Paul Remde

"Andy" wrote in message
...

On Mar 17, 6:03 pm, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
> Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one or two
> miles *at best*. > Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles. Not a peep
> :-(.


I'm glad to hear another report of this. It exactly matches my
experience. Head on traffic less than a mile away - in sight ,
alerted by ZAON PCAS, and Power FLARM portable indicated nothing!

I hope FLARM will eventually recognize this problem and correct it.
Until then I don't fly without my ZAON MRX.

Andy

[Ramy]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 7:32:16 AM UTC-7, Evan Ludeman wrote:
> On Monday, March 18, 2013 1:56:32 AM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
>
> > Yes, the 2.7 beta works well for updating powerflarm display without the cable, for IGC and Flarm traffic.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ramy
>
>
>
> If there's a public 2.7x beta, please provide a link.
>
>
>
> T8

2.7 beta is not public as far as I know.
PCAS issues still exists unfortunately. They are working on it. Those who fly with both Zaon and PF can help by turning on the log feature and provide the log file and time when there is major discrepancy. This is what I am doing.
As far as the butterfly display for PCAS alert, the butterfly folks are also working on improving it. Frankly I think it is important to provide constructive feedback to the Flarm and Butterfly folks so they can continue improving their products. Not sure what is the best channel for this though - RAS, email or the Powerflarm forum at
http://flarm.invisionzone.com/index.php?showforum=6
After flying with Powerflarm for 9 month now I must say that the flarm functionality is impressive.

Ramy

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 18, 2:37*pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:

>
> Has your PowerFLARM Portable been upgraded as per the recent recall?
>

No, but he recall relates to FLARM signal reception and has nothing to
do with PCAS performance. The PCAS reception and processing is done
in a separate module.

Andy

[Matt Herron Jr.]

The pressure you can put on butterfly is to sell your butterfly to that one guy that doesn't use polarized glasses, and get a FlarmView display. works great with polarized glasses, brighter, louder, and better interface.

Matt

> I agree with Morteza, the polarizer filter should have match the most common layout, which is most likely horizontal. Or they could have provided 2 versions. Perhaps if we put more pressure they will. However with some effort you will most likely find a place to mount it vertically as I did, or switch to the in panel display if you have space, as it is polarized correctly and has louder volume.
>
>
>
> Ramy

[Ramy]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:26:57 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> The pressure you can put on butterfly is to sell your butterfly to that one guy that doesn't use polarized glasses, and get a FlarmView display. works great with polarized glasses, brighter, louder, and better interface.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> > I agree with Morteza, the polarizer filter should have match the most common layout, which is most likely horizontal. Or they could have provided 2 versions. Perhaps if we put more pressure they will. However with some effort you will most likely find a place to mount it vertically as I did, or switch to the in panel display if you have space, as it is polarized correctly and has louder volume.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ramy

I ended up replacing my rectangular display with the 57mm display which works well with polarized glasses and is a bit louder. They are already working on improving the UI to address some of the issues such as font size and PCAS distance as far as I know. Will be nice to have more configuration options as the Flarmview seem to have. All these should be relatively easy to do with firmware upgrades, so am hoping Butterfly folks are reading this and realizing they may be loosing customers to Flarmview otherwise. BTW I am not sure that flarmview supports firmware upgrades via Powerflarm as butterfly will with the next firmware.

Ramy

[Richard[_9_]]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 2:12:43 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> On Monday, March 18, 2013 10:26:57 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote: > The pressure you can put on butterfly is to sell your butterfly to that one guy that doesn't use polarized glasses, and get a FlarmView display. works great with polarized glasses, brighter, louder, and better interface. > > > > Matt > > > > > I agree with Morteza, the polarizer filter should have match the most common layout, which is most likely horizontal. Or they could have provided 2 versions. Perhaps if we put more pressure they will. However with some effort you will most likely find a place to mount it vertically as I did, or switch to the in panel display if you have space, as it is polarized correctly and has louder volume. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramy I ended up replacing my rectangular display with the 57mm display which works well with polarized glasses and is a bit louder. They are already working on improving the UI to address some of the issues such as font size and PCAS distance as far as I know. Will be nice to have more configuration options as the Flarmview seem to have. All these should be relatively easy to do with firmware upgrades, so am hoping Butterfly folks are reading this and realizing they may be loosing customers to Flarmview otherwise. BTW I am not sure that flarmview supports firmware upgrades via Powerflarm as butterfly will with the next firmware. Ramy

Ramy,

FlarmView has a mini SD Card for firmware, software, data upgrades to the display.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[bumper[_4_]]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 7:44:54 AM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
> On Mar 17, 6:03*pm, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>
> >*Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one or two miles *at best*. >*Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles. *Not a peep :-(.
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm glad to hear another report of this. It exactly matches my
>
> experience. Head on traffic less than a mile away - in sight ,
>
> alerted by ZAON PCAS, and Power FLARM portable indicated nothing!
>
>
>
> I hope FLARM will eventually recognize this problem and correct it.
>
> Until then I don't fly without my ZAON MRX.
>
>
>
> Andy


Andy,

When I did a side-by-side comparison with PowerFlarm PCAS function and a Proxalert R5 on the glare shield of my Husky, I found that the R5 was interfering with the PF. The R5 would show a PCAS target which would not show up on the PF until I turned off the R5.

I didn't test the PF with the ZAON, as by then I'd sold it in favor of the R5, mostly because that gives target squawk code. I wonder if the proximity between your ZAON and PowerFlarm is affecting your results?

bumper

[Ramy]

On Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:36:50 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
> On Monday, March 18, 2013 7:44:54 AM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
>
> > On Mar 17, 6:03*pm, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >*Sadly, my mode c/s pcas range on powerflarm still stinks, it's one or two miles *at best*. >*Saw a bizjet rip by at less than 2 miles. *Not a peep :-(.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I'm glad to hear another report of this. It exactly matches my
>
> >
>
> > experience. Head on traffic less than a mile away - in sight ,
>
> >
>
> > alerted by ZAON PCAS, and Power FLARM portable indicated nothing!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I hope FLARM will eventually recognize this problem and correct it.
>
> >
>
> > Until then I don't fly without my ZAON MRX.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy,
>
>
>
> When I did a side-by-side comparison with PowerFlarm PCAS function and a Proxalert R5 on the glare shield of my Husky, I found that the R5 was interfering with the PF. The R5 would show a PCAS target which would not show up on the PF until I turned off the R5.
>
>
>
> I didn't test the PF with the ZAON, as by then I'd sold it in favor of the R5, mostly because that gives target squawk code. I wonder if the proximity between your ZAON and PowerFlarm is affecting your results?
>
>
>
> bumper

I tried that early on and did not notice any correlation between the two. The latest firmwares improved the PCAS range and now it is comparable to the Zaon but the Zaon is still detecting more consistently and accurately than the PF. AFAIK they are still working on improving the PCAS functionality.

Ramy