Concorde Crash

[Orval Fairbairn]

Here is an interesting story on the crash that grounded the Concordes:

http://www.askthepilot.com/untold-concorde-story/

It seems that the fire wasn't the cause of the crash -- it was basic
airmanship.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, December 17, 2012 11:24:04 PM UTC-5, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> Here is an interesting story on the crash that grounded the Concordes:
>
>
>
> http://www.askthepilot.com/untold-concorde-story/
>
>
>
> It seems that the fire wasn't the cause of the crash -- it was basic
>
> airmanship.

FOD is serious business.

--
Mark

[HankC]

On Dec 17, 10:24*pm, Orval Fairbairn >
wrote:
> Here is an interesting story on the crash that grounded the Concordes:
>
> http://www.askthepilot.com/untold-concorde-story/
>
> It seems that the fire wasn't the cause of the crash -- it was basic
> airmanship.

How is:

1., it was flying too slowly;
2., it was several tons overweight and beyond its aft center of
gravity limit;
3., two of its four engines were damaged or erroneously shut down;
4., it was over-fueled.

'airmanship'?

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article
>,
HankC > wrote:

> On Dec 17, 10:24*pm, Orval Fairbairn >
> wrote:
> > Here is an interesting story on the crash that grounded the Concordes:
> >
> > http://www.askthepilot.com/untold-concorde-story/
> >
> > It seems that the fire wasn't the cause of the crash -- it was basic
> > airmanship.
>
> How is:
>
> 1., it was flying too slowly;
> 2., it was several tons overweight and beyond its aft center of
> gravity limit;
> 3., two of its four engines were damaged or erroneously shut down;
> 4., it was over-fueled.
>
> 'airmanship'?

1. Flying too slowly is DEFINITELY airmanship!
2. Flying overweight is airmanship because of poor flight planning.
3. Shutting down a wrong engine is airmanship of the first order.
4. Over fueling adds too much weight and can affect weight & balance
computations.

There -- did I answer your question?

[HankC]

On Dec 20, 1:57*pm, Orval Fairbairn > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *HankC > wrote:
> > On Dec 17, 10:24*pm, Orval Fairbairn >
> > wrote:
> > > Here is an interesting story on the crash that grounded the Concordes:
>
> > >http://www.askthepilot.com/untold-concorde-story/
>
> > > It seems that the fire wasn't the cause of the crash -- it was basic
> > > airmanship.
>
> > How is:
>
> > 1., it was flying too slowly;
> > 2., it was several tons overweight and beyond its aft center of
> > gravity limit;
> > 3., two of its four engines were damaged or erroneously shut down;
> > 4., it was over-fueled.
>
> > 'airmanship'?
>
> 1. Flying too slowly is DEFINITELY airmanship!
> 2. Flying overweight is airmanship because of poor flight planning.
> 3. Shutting down a wrong engine is airmanship of the first order.
> 4. Over fueling adds too much weight and can affect weight & balance
> computations.
>
> There -- did I answer your question?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

did you read the article about what and why these things happened?

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article
>,
HankC > wrote:

> On Dec 20, 1:57*pm, Orval Fairbairn > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *HankC > wrote:
> > > On Dec 17, 10:24*pm, Orval Fairbairn >
> > > wrote:
> > > > Here is an interesting story on the crash that grounded the Concordes:
> >
> > > >http://www.askthepilot.com/untold-concorde-story/
> >
> > > > It seems that the fire wasn't the cause of the crash -- it was basic
> > > > airmanship.
> >
> > > How is:
> >
> > > 1., it was flying too slowly;
> > > 2., it was several tons overweight and beyond its aft center of
> > > gravity limit;
> > > 3., two of its four engines were damaged or erroneously shut down;
> > > 4., it was over-fueled.
> >
> > > 'airmanship'?
> >
> > 1. Flying too slowly is DEFINITELY airmanship!
> > 2. Flying overweight is airmanship because of poor flight planning.
> > 3. Shutting down a wrong engine is airmanship of the first order.
> > 4. Over fueling adds too much weight and can affect weight & balance
> > computations.
> >
> > There -- did I answer your question?- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> did you read the article about what and why these things happened?

I read the article -- it does not excuse the airmanship.

[Skywise]

Orval Fairbairn > wrote in
:

> I read the article -- it does not excuse the airmanship.

Would you take off in a Cessna 172 with fully topped off fuel
tanks, 3 passengers, and 350 pounds of camping gear from an
airport at 7,000 feet and it's 110 degrees outside with a
13 kt tailwind?

Is that airmanship?

The pilot/captain/pic is 'god'. They have the penultimate
authority to do what is necessary to carry out the flight
successfully. With that goes the penultimate responsibility
to ACTUALLY do what is necessary.

Airmanship involves more than just yanking the yoke around.

I'm not even a pilot (yet?) and I realize this.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[sambodidley[_2_]]

"Skywise" > wrote

>
> The pilot/captain/pic is 'god'. They have the penultimate
> authority to do what is necessary to carry out the flight
> successfully. With that goes the penultimate responsibility
> to ACTUALLY do what is necessary.
> Brian

So, who has the ultimate authority?

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"sambodidley" > wrote:

> "Skywise" > wrote
>
> >
> > The pilot/captain/pic is 'god'. They have the penultimate
> > authority to do what is necessary to carry out the flight
> > successfully. With that goes the penultimate responsibility
> > to ACTUALLY do what is necessary.
> > Brian
>
> So, who has the ultimate authority?

A: The accident investigators.

[george152]

On 22/12/12 11:15, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> "sambodidley" > wrote:
>
>> "Skywise" > wrote
>>
>>>
>>> The pilot/captain/pic is 'god'. They have the penultimate
>>> authority to do what is necessary to carry out the flight
>>> successfully. With that goes the penultimate responsibility
>>> to ACTUALLY do what is necessary.
>>> Brian
>>
>> So, who has the ultimate authority?
>
> A: The accident investigators.
>
We've had one or two who have had to rewrite their reports
Ever notice how we always have sufficient fuel to get to the accident site ?

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
george152 > wrote:

> On 22/12/12 11:15, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "sambodidley" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Skywise" > wrote
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The pilot/captain/pic is 'god'. They have the penultimate
> >>> authority to do what is necessary to carry out the flight
> >>> successfully. With that goes the penultimate responsibility
> >>> to ACTUALLY do what is necessary.
> >>> Brian
> >>
> >> So, who has the ultimate authority?
> >
> > A: The accident investigators.
> >
> We've had one or two who have had to rewrite their reports
> Ever notice how we always have sufficient fuel to get to the accident site ?

Not always -- sometimes they have to glide to the accident site, due to
too much air in the fuel tanks.

[george152]

On 23/12/12 08:56, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> george152 > wrote:
>
>> On 22/12/12 11:15, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> "sambodidley" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Skywise" > wrote
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The pilot/captain/pic is 'god'. They have the penultimate
>>>>> authority to do what is necessary to carry out the flight
>>>>> successfully. With that goes the penultimate responsibility
>>>>> to ACTUALLY do what is necessary.
>>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> So, who has the ultimate authority?
>>>
>>> A: The accident investigators.
>>>
>> We've had one or two who have had to rewrite their reports
>> Ever notice how we always have sufficient fuel to get to the accident site ?
>
> Not always -- sometimes they have to glide to the accident site, due to
> too much air in the fuel tanks.
>
:)
True
Seasons greetings to you and all the lurkers out there