Night landings vs. day landings

[Gerald Sylvester]

I got a strange thing going on. I got my license a couple of months
ago. My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest. I do them.
i don't myself, a passenger or the plane but sometimes not greasers.
my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
it be the opposite? I find this completely backwards as you have more
visual cues during the day. Anyone else have this 'problem?' obviously
if my day landings were that bad i wouldn't have been able to pass
my checkride. Strange.

Gerald Sylvester

[Robert L. Bass]

Maybe dark sunglasses would help your day landings? ;-)

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Not all landings are greasers. As long
as you are landing safely and can reuse the plane afterwards....

"Gerald Sylvester" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> I got a strange thing going on. I got my license a couple of months
> ago. My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest. I do them.
> i don't myself, a passenger or the plane but sometimes not greasers.
> my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> it be the opposite? I find this completely backwards as you have more
> visual cues during the day. Anyone else have this 'problem?' obviously
> if my day landings were that bad i wouldn't have been able to pass
> my checkride. Strange.
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>

[John Gaquin]

"Gerald Sylvester" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
>My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest.

> my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> it be the opposite? I find this completely backwards as you have more
>visual cues during the day.

Not unusual. Too many visual cues during the day, and you must learn to
select and use the correct cues, and disregard the superfluous. At night,
all you have available, in most cases, are the essential cues provided by
the lighting system.

JG

[CFLav8r]

My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest. I do them.
> i don't myself, a passenger or the plane but sometimes not greasers.
> my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> it be the opposite? > Gerald Sylvester
>
Just a guess but it might be that on the night landing you are looking at
visual cues that are further down the runway and during the day you
may be looking at visual references that are way too close.

Just a guess?

David (KORL)

[Andrew Sarangan]

This used to happen to me when I was a student pilot several years
back. My reasoning for this was that your peripheral vision is better
at night. I can't say for sure if this is the cause of your problem as
well. The landing light and nav lights illuminate the peripheral area,
and your eyes are more sensitive to peripheral vision at night.
Peripheral vision is what you need for good landings. You should not
be looking at your touchdown point, but the edges of the runway. This
comes a little more naturally at night time that day time.



Gerald Sylvester > wrote in message . net>...
> I got a strange thing going on. I got my license a couple of months
> ago. My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest. I do them.
> i don't myself, a passenger or the plane but sometimes not greasers.
> my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> it be the opposite? I find this completely backwards as you have more
> visual cues during the day. Anyone else have this 'problem?' obviously
> if my day landings were that bad i wouldn't have been able to pass
> my checkride. Strange.
>
> Gerald Sylvester

[Tom Sixkiller]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gerald Sylvester" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> >My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest.
>
> > my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> > it be the opposite? I find this completely backwards as you have more
> >visual cues during the day.
>
> Not unusual. Too many visual cues during the day, and you must learn to
> select and use the correct cues, and disregard the superfluous. At night,
> all you have available, in most cases, are the essential cues provided by
> the lighting system.

(You stole my thunder)

That's exactly the conclusion I reached after thinking about it. I, too,
notice that my night touch downs are smoother, even if my approach isn't
quite as graceful.

[Mike Rapoport]

Just get some welding goggles...


Mike
MU-2

"Gerald Sylvester" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> I got a strange thing going on. I got my license a couple of months
> ago. My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest. I do them.
> i don't myself, a passenger or the plane but sometimes not greasers.
> my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> it be the opposite? I find this completely backwards as you have more
> visual cues during the day. Anyone else have this 'problem?' obviously
> if my day landings were that bad i wouldn't have been able to pass
> my checkride. Strange.
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>

[Gerald Sylvester]

> Just get some welding goggles...

as I said to the other poster, if I did that would it count as a night
landing as it would be a 'simulated night' landing....or whatever
the hell that means. :)


Even strange about this whole thing is my 12 night landings as
required for the PPL were not exactly gentle with the ground sneaking
up on me too quickly (had my one and only bounce ever at night).
I think it might be what others say as far as too many visual
cues without focusing on the most critical ones. I'll see tomorrow.

thanks everyone

Gerald

[Rob Perkins]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote:

>That's exactly the conclusion I reached after thinking about it. I, too,
>notice that my night touch downs are smoother, even if my approach isn't
>quite as graceful.

Doesn't it also have something to do with less convective turbulence
at night?

Rob

[Gerald Sylvester]

> Doesn't it also have something to do with less convective turbulence
> at night?

maybe a little but generally the more bumpy it is, the further
I extend the downwind just to set up and trim out the plane
more for a more stable final leg. I think it is more mental than
anything.


Then again, today I did my mountain checkout in an Archer (also
the first time I flew the Archer vs. Warrior) and had my best
landing yet with the textbook definition of a greaser. :)
Someday I'll be able to grease them all flying my BBJ. :)

Gerald

[Bob]

Gerald Sylvester > wrote in message . net>...
> I got a strange thing going on. I got my license a couple of months
> ago. My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest. I do them.
> i don't myself, a passenger or the plane but sometimes not greasers.
> my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> it be the opposite? I find this completely backwards as you have more
> visual cues during the day. Anyone else have this 'problem?' obviously
> if my day landings were that bad i wouldn't have been able to pass
> my checkride. Strange.
>
> Gerald Sylvester

An easy way to fix that problem is to go land at night on a wider
runway than you're used to. Then you'll flare to high and really wham
it down. :-)

[Nick Coleman]

Gerald Sylvester wrote:

>
> I got a strange thing going on. I got my license a couple of months
> ago. My day landings are smooth but not the smoothest. I do them.
> i don't myself, a passenger or the plane but sometimes not greasers.
> my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> it be the opposite? I find this completely backwards as you have more
> visual cues during the day. Anyone else have this 'problem?' obviously
> if my day landings were that bad i wouldn't have been able to pass
> my checkride. Strange.
>
> Gerald Sylvester

Same with me (night landings are greasers). My instructor said it's common.
As others have said, it's probably because your only cues, the lights at
the end of the runway, are the correct ones.

--
Nick

[tony roberts]

> my night landings, every one of them, I can grease them in. Shouldn't
> it be the opposite?

My night landings are so scary that even I close my eyes.
Hmmmmm....... I think that I just worked out what I'm doing wrong :)

Tony


--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument :)
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Big John]

Nick

Are you saying that "black out" landings (not using landing lights)
are smoother than day time landings? (Read your post)

Been there, done that, day and night, IFR and VFR (including
infiltration/exfiltration landings with no landing lights and no
runway lights) and landings other than daylight landings are not
normally smoother than run of the mill day landings.

Every landing is a critical phase of flight and max effort should be
made to make the transition from flight to ground operation as
precision (and safe) as possible.

Practice makes perfect.

Big John


On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:25:30 +1100, Nick Coleman
> wrote:

----clip----

>Same with me (night landings are greasers). My instructor said it's common.
>As others have said, it's probably because your only cues, the lights at
>the end of the runway, are the correct ones.

[Nick Coleman]

Big John wrote:

>
> Nick
>
> Are you saying that "black out" landings (not using landing lights)
> are smoother than day time landings? (Read your post)
>

No, I mean that my normal with-lights-on landings at night (what we fall
Night VFR; here in Australia we need a special rating to fly at night) were
typically smoother than landings during the day, and that when I commented
on it to my instructor, he said that is not uncommon. We hypothesised a
bit and came up with: less turbulence, and that landing at night forces you
to look to the end of the runway for perspective and height judgement, and
that produces a greaser.

My experience in the C172 was that the landing light is pretty useless in
the flare and so doesn't serve as a reference point. I do remember my
instructor emphasising that I should be looking at the end-lights at the
far end of the runway.

> Been there, done that, day and night, IFR and VFR (including
> infiltration/exfiltration landings with no landing lights and no
> runway lights) and landings other than daylight landings are not
> normally smoother than run of the mill day landings.

Sure, I'm only commenting on my experience. But I admit I have very limited
time at night.

>
> Every landing is a critical phase of flight and max effort should be
> made to make the transition from flight to ground operation as
> precision (and safe) as possible.
>

Absolutely.

> Practice makes perfect.
>
> Big John
>
>
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:25:30 +1100, Nick Coleman
> > wrote:
>
> ----clip----
>
>>Same with me (night landings are greasers). My instructor said it's
>>common. As others have said, it's probably because your only cues, the
>>lights at the end of the runway, are the correct ones.

--
Nick

[Big John]

Nick

Wasn't trying to push a wet noodle :o)

Different pilots have different night adaption ability.

Cockpit lighting (red or white) makes a difference.

Phase of the moon makes a difference.

The airplane your flying makes a difference.

I list all of these to make the point that a single statement about
night landings may have a lot of modifiers that will effect it.

I have a lot of time in heavy iron (P-40, P-51, AT-6, etc) When you
flare in those birds you lose the lights at the far end of the runway
and use the landing lights and side runway lights to keep straight and
judge your height above ground.

With that background, when in GA, I still do the same which I am
comfortable with and have done for years even though I can most of the
time see the lights at the far end of R/W after flare..

To you and the others who have maxed night landings, a pat on the back
and keep up the good work. It's another big hurdle passed in flying.

Big John

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:59:24 +1100, Nick Coleman
> wrote:

>Big John wrote:
>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Are you saying that "black out" landings (not using landing lights)
>> are smoother than day time landings? (Read your post)
>>
>
>No, I mean that my normal with-lights-on landings at night (what we fall
>Night VFR; here in Australia we need a special rating to fly at night) were
>typically smoother than landings during the day, and that when I commented
>on it to my instructor, he said that is not uncommon. We hypothesised a
>bit and came up with: less turbulence, and that landing at night forces you
>to look to the end of the runway for perspective and height judgement, and
>that produces a greaser.
>
>My experience in the C172 was that the landing light is pretty useless in
>the flare and so doesn't serve as a reference point. I do remember my
>instructor emphasising that I should be looking at the end-lights at the
>far end of the runway.
>
>> Been there, done that, day and night, IFR and VFR (including
>> infiltration/exfiltration landings with no landing lights and no
>> runway lights) and landings other than daylight landings are not
>> normally smoother than run of the mill day landings.
>
>Sure, I'm only commenting on my experience. But I admit I have very limited
>time at night.
>
>>
>> Every landing is a critical phase of flight and max effort should be
>> made to make the transition from flight to ground operation as
>> precision (and safe) as possible.
>>
>
>Absolutely.
>
>> Practice makes perfect.
>>
>> Big John
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:25:30 +1100, Nick Coleman
>> > wrote:
>>
>> ----clip----
>>
>>>Same with me (night landings are greasers). My instructor said it's
>>>common. As others have said, it's probably because your only cues, the
>>>lights at the end of the runway, are the correct ones.