adding speed/vario switch into ASW-19 control stick grip

[Kimmo Hytoenen]

I am updating the variometer system in our club ASW-19b. I would
like to add speed/vario switch into the stick handle. Any ideas,
advice and suggestion for components welcome!

[Jim[_32_]]

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:28:36 AM UTC-5, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
> I am updating the variometer system in our club ASW-19b. I would
>
> like to add speed/vario switch into the stick handle. Any ideas,
>
> advice and suggestion for components welcome!

Sometimes it is easiest to just run the wire up the outside of the stick and wrap them and the switch with tennis racket grip tape. The switch stays in place quite well and is offset just a bit off center (next to the PTT) when wrapped to the side of the grip at the top; leave just switch handle xposed. the I found the "Wilson Kontrol" tape works great, has no goo, and has a great feel. http://www.ebay.com/itm/150931676320

[kirk.stant]

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:28:36 PM UTC+1, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
> I am updating the variometer system in our club ASW-19b. I would
>
> like to add speed/vario switch into the stick handle. Any ideas,
>
> advice and suggestion for components welcome!

A bit Gucci, but will definitely make your glider go faster:

http://www.gliderdesignparts.de/knueppel_ent.en.html

Cheers,

Kirk
66

[John Cochrane[_3_]]

On Dec 19, 7:28*am, Kimmo Hytoenen > wrote:
> I am updating the variometer system in our club ASW-19b. I would
> like to add speed/vario switch into the stick handle. Any ideas,
> advice and suggestion for components welcome!

Don't. Buy a vario with automatic cruise/climb switching. Otherwise
you will spend a lot of time with the switch in the wrong position.
John Cochrane

[Bastoune]

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:54:58 AM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
> On Dec 19, 7:28*am, Kimmo Hytoenen > wrote: > I am updating the variometer system in our club ASW-19b. I would > like to add speed/vario switch into the stick handle. Any ideas, > advice and suggestion for components welcome! Don't. Buy a vario with automatic cruise/climb switching. Otherwise you will spend a lot of time with the switch in the wrong position. John Cochrane

Hi John - I have a LX V7 variothat has that functionality. The automatic switching of the STF is currently based on a GPS input (straight flight = STF, turn = vario). I am moderatly happy with the automating switching based on that logic. Is there a better one? I understand that the vario could also switch to SFT above a certain speed (e.g. 60kts) but I find myself flying at best L/D at times. In that case, the vario would automatically revert to "Vario". What "automatic switching logic" works best in your experience?

Thanks,

B

[kirk.stant]

> On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:54:58 AM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
Don't. Buy a vario with automatic cruise/climb switching. Otherwise you will spend a lot of time with the switch in the wrong position.

I have to respectfully disagree with John - I've tried automatic cruise/climb switching (SN10) and hate it with a passion - I don't even like having it connected to the flap switch. There are times when I want TE and I'm not in thermalling flaps (under a cloudstreet perhaps), and if turning is used, I may not be turning enough to trigger the climbing mode while sniffing around for a core.

Then again, I don't use any audio during cruise, so the difference is immediately obvious to me. I use a switch on the stick - forward for cruise, back for climb.

With the SN10, switching cruise/climb also changes what is shown on my custom page, and resets thermal averages, acts I like being able to control.

Try it both ways, a lot depends on your vario and computer setup. With what John is running, he may be totally right having it done automatically, and he is definitely right that with a manual switch you can get it wrong - kinda like flaps ;^).

Cheers,

Kirk
66

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, December 20, 2012 8:23:20 AM UTC-6, kirk.stant wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:54:58 AM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
>
> Don't. Buy a vario with automatic cruise/climb switching. Otherwise you will spend a lot of time with the switch in the wrong position.
>
>
>
> I have to respectfully disagree with John - I've tried automatic cruise/climb switching (SN10) and hate it with a passion - I don't even like having it connected to the flap switch. There are times when I want TE and I'm not in thermalling flaps (under a cloudstreet perhaps), and if turning is used, I may not be turning enough to trigger the climbing mode while sniffing around for a core.
>
>
>
> Then again, I don't use any audio during cruise, so the difference is immediately obvious to me. I use a switch on the stick - forward for cruise, back for climb.
>
>
>
> With the SN10, switching cruise/climb also changes what is shown on my custom page, and resets thermal averages, acts I like being able to control.
>
>
>
> Try it both ways, a lot depends on your vario and computer setup. With what John is running, he may be totally right having it done automatically, and he is definitely right that with a manual switch you can get it wrong - kinda like flaps ;^).
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Kirk
>
> 66

I think the ideal is automatic switching with a manual override. Then, if you want to hear one vs. another temporarily you can do so. But you won't find yourself boring a hole in the sky at 120 knots in "sink" because you forgot to turn the regular vario back to speed to fly.

I set my audio up for regular vario in climb, and speed to fly in cruise with fast response and tight deadbands. My needle in cruse shows relative netto (netto - 200 fpm).

This setup has the advantage of no big changes as you move from climb to cruise. At about 60 knots, you get about the same indication in either mode. The 302 also has a "lift alarm" feature which switches to regular vario if the lift is above the Mc setting when flying straight(or similar -- not sure of the algorithm) making the transition even more seamless.

The overall result in the 302 was that I am not even aware of what mode it's in and just fly the glider. Up tones mean gently slow down, look at the needle briefly to evaluate the lift strength for deciding to stop or not, down tones mean get out and speed up. The new clearnav vario is still working on the cruise/climb algorithm so there is more of a noticeable change (still small), but I expect that to be smoothed out.

John Cochrane

[[email protected]]

We have 3 club gliders with LX160S flight computers, and I would like to have also the SC/vario switching identical in all 3. LX160 was chosen since it is very simple to use, MC, ballast, bugs and filter switches, no need to use menus during flight. And it connects nicely with XCSoar.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 05:34:12 -0800, Bastoune wrote:

> I have a LX V7 variothat has that functionality. The
> automatic switching of the STF is currently based on a GPS input
> (straight flight = STF, turn = vario). I am moderatly happy with the
> automating switching based on that logic. Is there a better one? I
> understand that the vario could also switch to SFT above a certain speed
> (e.g. 60kts) but I find myself flying at best L/D at times. In that
> case, the vario would automatically revert to "Vario". What "automatic
> switching logic" works best in your experience?
>
I have an SDI C4 vario that offers the choice of manual, speed and turn
switching. The older C3 allowed you to choose speed or turn and override
it (the manual switch had a three position switch: climb-auto-cruise but
the C4 omitted the manual override. I tried circling and hated it and now
use speed switching. This instrument allows different speeds to be set
for cruise->climb and climb->cruise which is useful: I like climb->cruise
set 5-6 kts faster than cruise->climb and would probably hate a vario
that had only one switching speed, but ymmv.

If you try speed switching, be prepared to spend time tuning it to the
way you like to fly the glider its in: using the same instrument in two
fairly different gliders showed me that you need to tweak both the
switching speeds to suit both the glider and your flying style, but get
it set right and it is almost always in the mode you want.

A reasonable start point is with cruise->climb set about 2-3 kts below
best glide speed and climb->cruise set around 5 kts above best glide.
Then go fly and adjust as needed. What you want is for it to stay in
cruise along a weakish street but not suddenly jump out of climb while
you're thermalling.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

Since I make installation into a club glider, I just want it to be identical with other two with XC potential. LX160 has SC/vario/auto switch, so the pilot can make his own choice. So, I would like to install a new grip with SC/vario switch. I do not want to pay for carbon fiber, I just hope I can find something practical and proven.

[Alexander Swagemakers[_2_]]

I installed a bycicle grip with a CNC end cap. The lifting end cap allow fairly easy installation of the ptt button and vario switch:
"Ragley Skinny Lock On Grip"

An alternative is reusing a ski pole grips. Those are the ones usually installed by the manufacturer. Leki has some nice ones and in ski resorts you can get them free because there are plenty of broken ski poles at every rental place. Installing button and switch is often not easy because you need to do it through the hole at the back for the latch. Get the smallest button and switch you can find!

Schempp-Hirth sells a foam grip with lifting cap, as installed in new SH sailplanes. Probably the easiest solution, but not the cheapest and I'm not a friend of foam grips.

Incase your stick diameter is too small you can use heat shrink tubing with glue to widen the diameter a bit.

I would definitely recommend a switch versus automatic switching. You need a good vario reading before the thermal kicks in and an automatic switch is usually to slow especially since most speed switches have a short delay even if the set speed has been reached.

[[email protected]]

Thank you Alexander. The ski pole grip might be a good idea, I will look what is available locally. I think some DH bike grips might also be interesting. However, I still would appreciate a ready-made, tested and robust solution.

[Dan Marotta]

If your vario has cruise, climb, and auto functions, and you plan to install
a switch in the stick grip, I would recommend a three position switch. My
partner and I did this on our LS-6 about 20 years ago and it worked just
fine.

Forward for cruise,
Back for climb,
Middle for auto mode


> wrote in message
...
> Thank you Alexander. The ski pole grip might be a good idea, I will look
> what is available locally. I think some DH bike grips might also be
> interesting. However, I still would appreciate a ready-made, tested and
> robust solution.

[Ian[_2_]]

On 20/12/2012 16:23, kirk.stant wrote:

> I have to respectfully disagree with John - I've tried automatic
> cruise/climb switching (SN10) and hate it with a passion - I don't
> even like having it connected to the flap switch. There are times
> when I want TE and I'm not in thermalling flaps (under a cloudstreet
> perhaps), and if turning is used, I may not be turning enough to
> trigger the climbing mode while sniffing around for a core.

I am fortunate to fly from a site where we regularly fly cross countries
in ridge and wave lift as well as thermal.

For ridge flying, "speed to fly" does not apply. You adjust your speed
to stay within the altitude band with maximum energy. So when the vario
shows lift you push harder! When it shows sink you slow down (but still
maintaining a minimum safe speed - well above normal "thermalling speeds").

I have a flap switch for vario/cruise switching and an override switch
on the panel. With ridge flying I switch the override "vario" and leave
it there. When things are going well, the vario stays close to "0", but
the glider can go many km's at speeds of 150km/h to 200km/h, without
turning :-)


Ian

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:28:36 AM UTC-5, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
> I am updating the variometer system in our club ASW-19b. I would
>
> like to add speed/vario switch into the stick handle. Any ideas,
>
> advice and suggestion for components welcome!

Hi Kimmo
When I had my ASW19 I went through the same search for the perfect grip with room for a PTT and a Cruise/Climb switch. The only ready made grip available as mentioned before is at,
http://www.gliderdesignparts.de/knueppel_ent.en.html
I have not seen one in person but from the web site it looks really nice.

I made a fiberglass mold of the existing rubber grip, carved out the inside at the top to make room for the switches and voila I had something I could live with. I can send you a picture if you are interested.
The other option that I have seen done with a 19 is to put the switch just in front of the trim knob. Pull into thermal reach for trim, flip the switch and climb away.
I traded my 19 for an LS6b a couple of years ago. I put in a 302 and I love the Auto Switching.

Randy

[[email protected]]

LX160 has only one contact for SC/vario switch. The Auto mode is selected from the variometer switch panel.
Randy, if you have pictures easily available I would appreciate if you could email those. There are these plastic materials you can heat up in boiling water, and place in mold. Maybe those could be the solution. Taking skipole handle, carving our the head, installing into the stick, placing the switches, and filling with abovementioned plastic?
Also I need to find a switch that is small enough to fit and robust enough to work years without maintenance.