LXNAV flarmMouse

[DC[_5_]]

http://lxnav.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=243

[JohnDeRosa]

Interesting product. No manual as yet?

Features: Standalone flarm • builtin GPS antenna • micro SD card • IGC
flight recorder • extremely small dimensions • Power input 6-16 V DC •
Power consumption typical 30mA • Weight 40 g • Compatible with all
flarm indicators (12V)

Why is it called a "Standalone FLARM" if you need a FLARM indicator
(like an Oudie)?

[cfinn[_2_]]

It's called "Standalone" because they make full products such as the
LX8000 where Flarm can be built in. The big question is if it is
compatible with US frequencies used by PowerFlarm.

Charlie

On Jan 4, 11:23*am, JohnDeRosa > wrote:
> Interesting product. *No manual as yet?
>
> Features: Standalone flarm • builtin GPS antenna • micro SD card • IGC
> flight recorder • extremely small dimensions • Power input 6-16 V DC •
> Power consumption typical 30mA • Weight 40 g • Compatible with all
> flarm indicators (12V)
>
> Why is it called a "Standalone FLARM" if you need a FLARM indicator
> (like an Oudie)?

[DC[_5_]]

"JohnDeRosa" wrote in message
...

>> Why is it called a "Standalone FLARM" if you need a FLARM indicator
>> (like an Oudie)?

Maybe it doesn't need a FLARM indicator if it has it's own sound alarm and
flashing diodes? - just speculating
I think we have to wait for more details.

[DC[_5_]]

"cfinn" wrote in message
...

>> It's called "Standalone" because they make full products such as the
>> LX8000 where Flarm can be built in. The big question is if it is
>> compatible with US frequencies used by PowerFlarm.

>> Charlie

At WGC 2012 in Uvalde, older FLARM devices brought from Europe worked
perfectly well with PowerFLARM. There was a FLARM firmware update released
just before the worlds to allow for automatic switching of frequencies
depending on the region. I suspect that the same applies to this little
gadget.

[Ramy]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 8:46:30 AM UTC-8, DC wrote:
> "JohnDeRosa" wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >> Why is it called a "Standalone FLARM" if you need a FLARM indicator
>
> >> (like an Oudie)?
>
>
>
> Maybe it doesn't need a FLARM indicator if it has it's own sound alarm and
>
> flashing diodes? - just speculating
>
> I think we have to wait for more details.

Looks really nice, but does not seem to have Powerflarm capabilities such as ADS-B and PCAS.

Ramy

[Richard[_9_]]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 3:09:51 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> On Friday, January 4, 2013 8:46:30 AM UTC-8, DC wrote: > "JohnDeRosa" wrote in message > > .googlegroups.com... > > > > >> Why is it called a "Standalone FLARM" if you need a FLARM indicator > > >> (like an Oudie)? > > > > Maybe it doesn't need a FLARM indicator if it has it's own sound alarm and > > flashing diodes? - just speculating > > I think we have to wait for more details. Looks really nice, but does not seem to have Powerflarm capabilities such as ADS-B and PCAS. Ramy

It is also not optomized nor certified for the US frequency.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Darryl Ramm]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 3:21:37 PM UTC-8, Richard wrote:
> On Friday, January 4, 2013 3:09:51 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
>
> > On Friday, January 4, 2013 8:46:30 AM UTC-8, DC wrote: > "JohnDeRosa" wrote in message > > .googlegroups.com... > > > > >> Why is it called a "Standalone FLARM" if you need a FLARM indicator > > >> (like an Oudie)? > > > > Maybe it doesn't need a FLARM indicator if it has it's own sound alarm and > > flashing diodes? - just speculating > > I think we have to wait for more details. Looks really nice, but does not seem to have Powerflarm capabilities such as ADS-B and PCAS. Ramy
>
>
>
> It is also not optomized nor certified for the US frequency.
>
>
>
> Richard
>
> www.craggyaero.com

Nor FCC approved...

Darryl

[Surge]

An integrated pressure altitude sensor (barometer) is required for IGC approval and there is no mention of one being present which is a pity.

I can see it's usefulness in club gliders where a pilot needs a removable FLARM sensor for input into a gliding computer (PDA/PNA) without the bulk of a separate dedicated FLARM display.
What I'd really like is a portable LX8080 (FLARM + IGC approved logger + GPS + flight computer).

[waremark]

On Monday, January 7, 2013 12:23:44 PM UTC, Surge wrote:
> An integrated pressure altitude sensor (barometer) is required for IGC approval and there is no mention of one being present which is a pity.
>
>
>
> I can see it's usefulness in club gliders where a pilot needs a removable FLARM sensor for input into a gliding computer (PDA/PNA) without the bulk of a separate dedicated FLARM display.
>
> What I'd really like is a portable LX8080 (FLARM + IGC approved logger + GPS + flight computer).

It explicitly states that it is an approved IGC flight recorder. I would say it must have an integral pressure sensor meeting the IGC requirements. If so, all that needs to be added to meet your spec is a PNA such as the Vertica v2/GliderGuider/Oudie 2 Lite running LK8000 or XC Soar.

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, January 7, 2013 10:06:48 AM UTC-5, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
> As I recall, for FLARM to work properly, a pressure sensor is required.
> FLARM without Pressure Altitude has too much 'jitter'. The altitude used
> 'FLARM to FLARM' is GPS altitude smoothed by pressure altitude.

Wrong.

[[email protected]]

> As I recall, for FLARM to work properly, a pressure sensor is required.
> FLARM without Pressure Altitude has too much 'jitter'. The altitude used
> 'FLARM to FLARM' is GPS altitude smoothed by pressure altitude.

Always interesting to read all those FLARM rumors :) No idea where
that particular one comes from, but it's definitely not the case.
GPS altitude is typically accurate to a few meters, more than enough
for collision avoidance. Check your IGC logs.

Many 'Classic' FLARM devices don't even have a pressure sensor.

PowerFLARM's pressure sensor is used to calculate relative altitude
between your own ship and XPDR equiped traffic (PCAS, sometimes ADS-B),
except for the 'Pure' variant.
Why ADS-B? There are indeed ADS-B installations which transmit baro altitude, GPS position, but no GPS altitude.

HTH
--Gerhard (dev mgr FLARM)

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, January 7, 2013 5:40:22 PM UTC-5, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
> Dave Nadler writes
> >On Monday, January 7, 2013 10:06:48 AM UTC-5, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
> >> As I recall, for FLARM to work properly, a pressure sensor is required.
> >> FLARM without Pressure Altitude has too much 'jitter'. The altitude used
> >> 'FLARM to FLARM' is GPS altitude smoothed by pressure altitude.
>
> >Wrong.
>
> Justify.

As Tim should be well-aware from work with IGC loggers,
the cockpit static used by loggers (and FLARM) is
subject to large variations in indicated altitude
due to air-vent effects. Changing speed and/or fiddling
the airvent leads to big indicated altitude changes.
Not appropriate for collision avoidance...

Hope that helps clarify,
Best Regards, Dave

[Roel Baardman]

I have performed some measurements last season using a bmp085 sensor running at roughly 40Hz (I recall, no oversampling anyway).
In my Pilatus B4 I had it mounted behind my head, between the wings.

I could see an effect when I was rolling over the ground during winch launching, where pressure increased slightly.
I could also see perfectly when I opened my airbrakes, which made a very sharp drop of roughly 20 meters. When I closed them the value restored to the old
value again.

I have not yet tried a wide variety of speed ranges, nor have I been able to compare the reported altitude with a GPS receiver. That is planned for next
season.

[Dale Watkins]

>
> But I would agree that Pressure Altitude itself for FLARM would not be
>
> good.
>
>
>
> Getting back to the original question, flarmMouse claims to produce an
>
> IGC file and a true IGC file should have pressure altitude. Before
>
> flarmMouse could get IGC approval, pressure altitude would need to be
>
> recorded.
>
>
How accurate is the Nano then?

[Darryl Ramm]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:12:30 PM UTC-8, Dale Watkins wrote:
> >
>
> > But I would agree that Pressure Altitude itself for FLARM would not be
>
> >
>
> > good.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Getting back to the original question, flarmMouse claims to produce an
>
> >
>
> > IGC file and a true IGC file should have pressure altitude. Before
>
> >
>
> > flarmMouse could get IGC approval, pressure altitude would need to be
>
> >
>
> > recorded.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> How accurate is the Nano then?

42. Now what's your question?

Accuracy for what? GPS 2D Location? GPS altitude? (which ellipsoid? etc?) Pressure altitude? That nano includes both a pressure transducer and a GPS sensor and meets all the requirements for IGC approval. The need for a pressure transducer is for accuracy to a pressure datum that is required by the IGC. Without a pressure sensor its a non-starter for IGC approval.

Darryl