Vertica V3?

[son_of_flubber]

Pure speculation here...

I noticed that the V2 is "sold out" on the Vertica Sports website
http://www.verticasports.com/shop/v2-flight-instrument/

Does this foreshadow the announcement of the V3?

What is the latest date that a company can deliver a new product and expect it to sell for the 2013 soaring season? One highly regarded soaring product maker set March 31 for delivery of a promising new product. Is that the usual time of year for soaring product release? From various old blog posts, I gather that the V2 was released in September 2012.

There are still V2s_under_another_brand_name in stock at distributors. Does any distributor still have Vertica-branded V2s in stock?

[Richard[_9_]]

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Pure speculation here... I noticed that the V2 is "sold out" on the Vertica Sports website http://www.verticasports.com/shop/v2-flight-instrument/ Does this foreshadow the announcement of the V3? What is the latest date that a company can deliver a new product and expect it to sell for the 2013 soaring season? One highly regarded soaring product maker set March 31 for delivery of a promising new product. Is that the usual time of year for soaring product release? From various old blog posts, I gather that the V2 was released in September 2012. There are still V2s_under_another_brand_name in stock at distributors. Does any distributor still have Vertica-branded V2s in stock?

The Oudie 2 Lite is available and runs the free programs.

I have several customers that replaced the V2 with the Oudie 2 Lite and say the Oudie is a much nicer unit and when you finally get the cabling and power converters for the V2 the Oudie is less expensive.

http://www.craggyaero.com/oudie.htm


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Allan Arthurs]

The GliderGuider is available, complete with power/data interface cable.

Kind regards
Allan
www.gliderguider.net



At 20:16 09 January 2013, Richard wrote:
>On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
>> Pure speculation here... I noticed that the V2 is "sold out" on the
>Verti=
>ca Sports website http://www.verticasports.com/shop/v2-flight-instrument/
>D=
>oes this foreshadow the announcement of the V3? What is the latest date
>tha=
>t a company can deliver a new product and expect it to sell for the 2013
>so=
>aring season? One highly regarded soaring product maker set March 31 for
>de=
>livery of a promising new product. Is that the usual time of year for
>soari=
>ng product release? From various old blog posts, I gather that the V2 was
>r=
>eleased in September 2012. There are still V2s_under_another_brand_name
in
>=
>stock at distributors. Does any distributor still have Vertica-branded
V2s
>=
>in stock?
>
>The Oudie 2 Lite is available and runs the free programs.
>
>I have several customers that replaced the V2 with the Oudie 2 Lite and
>say=
> the Oudie is a much nicer unit and when you finally get the cabling and
>po=
>wer converters for the V2 the Oudie is less expensive.
>
>http://www.craggyaero.com/oudie.htm
>
>
>Richard
>www.craggyaero.com
>

[[email protected]]

The sunlight readable screens on the GliderGuider/Vertica V2 and Oudie 2 are great but I really wish they ran on an OS (like Android) that's not as antiquated and unsupported as Windows CE or Windows Mobile 6.x
With the plethora of Android smart phones, phablets and tablets available with built in GPS/GLONASS capable receivers, barometers, 3G/LTE, etc. and an app store with tens of thousands of apps why would one want to stick with an outdated OS running on seriously underpowered hardware which you can only use in the cockpit?

E.g. Take a smart phone like the LG Optimus 4X HD P880 (720x1280 HD screen with 750 cd/m2 brightness) and install XCSoar from the Google Play store and you're sorted. True HD-IPS display, quad core 1.5 GHz processor, 1GB RAM, hardware accelerated graphics, etc.
Have an outlanding? No problem just take your smart phone and make a call or send an email. Why carry another mobile phone?
When you're finished soaring for the day just pop it in your pocket and use it for the rest of the week.
Even better you get to upgrade the phone for free every two years when your mobile phone contract is up for renewal so you're never left with old hardware which you can't get rid of.

Just my opinion of course.

[pcool]

I think you miss the point entirely.
Most people, 99% of those I know, use a dedicated device for flight.
This is why Oudies are sold, V2 are sold, and you install aboard dedicated
computers that you dont bring home or in your car.

Using CE or Android makes no difference it the application running on it
works exactly the same on both OS.
Have you ever seen some devices like Montana, Oregon, and such by Garmin,
for example, in any shop?

So the answer to your question is: because they want a dedicated hardware,
or because they want an application that run on CE and dont care about the
xcsoar. And there has to be a reason why this happen, dont you think?


wrote in message
...

The sunlight readable screens on the GliderGuider/Vertica V2 and Oudie 2 are
great but I really wish they ran on an OS (like Android) that's not as
antiquated and unsupported as Windows CE or Windows Mobile 6.x
With the plethora of Android smart phones, phablets and tablets available
with built in GPS/GLONASS capable receivers, barometers, 3G/LTE, etc. and an
app store with tens of thousands of apps why would one want to stick with an
outdated OS running on seriously underpowered hardware which you can only
use in the cockpit?

E.g. Take a smart phone like the LG Optimus 4X HD P880 (720x1280 HD screen
with 750 cd/m2 brightness) and install XCSoar from the Google Play store and
you're sorted. True HD-IPS display, quad core 1.5 GHz processor, 1GB RAM,
hardware accelerated graphics, etc.
Have an outlanding? No problem just take your smart phone and make a call or
send an email. Why carry another mobile phone?
When you're finished soaring for the day just pop it in your pocket and use
it for the rest of the week.
Even better you get to upgrade the phone for free every two years when your
mobile phone contract is up for renewal so you're never left with old
hardware which you can't get rid of.

Just my opinion of course.

[Max Kellermann[_2_]]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:25:31 PM UTC+1, pcool wrote:
> Most people, 99% of those I know, use a dedicated device for flight.

The reason for that is pretty trivial: your software runs only on hardware that is not adequate for anything else. That alone makes the hardware "dedicated for flight". That is a limitation imposed by the software, not necessarily the user's deliberate choice.

My Dell Streak is (mostly) dedicated for flight, but I enjoy using my normal phones on occasional leisure/schooling two-seater flights. I don't need to remember taking it with me, I have it in my pocket all the time anyway, and so often it turns out to be useful.

[pcool]

I can agree on this.
But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the same story for car
navigators, no difference.


"Max Kellermann" wrote in message
...

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:25:31 PM UTC+1, pcool wrote:
> Most people, 99% of those I know, use a dedicated device for flight.

The reason for that is pretty trivial: your software runs only on hardware
that is not adequate for anything else. That alone makes the hardware
"dedicated for flight". That is a limitation imposed by the software, not
necessarily the user's deliberate choice.

My Dell Streak is (mostly) dedicated for flight, but I enjoy using my normal
phones on occasional leisure/schooling two-seater flights. I don't need to
remember taking it with me, I have it in my pocket all the time anyway, and
so often it turns out to be useful.

[[email protected]]

I have a friend that is using his android phone as his nav computer. He missed scoring a race day because having forgotten to place the phone in "aircraft mode" a call interrupted his IGC trace. I personally like my phone in the "off" mode for battery preservation and my MIO in the "on" mode for navigation.

Lane

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:42:47 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
> I really wish they ran on an OS (like Android) that's not as antiquated and unsupported as Windows CE or Windows Mobile 6.x

Comparing Windows CE and Android is comparing apples and oranges. They may appear to be equivalent and interchangeable to the end user, but under the skin, they are fundamentally different beasts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_CE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29

The bottom line is that Windows CE is intended to be utterly stable and reliable. That's a primary design goal.

Android aspires to be all things to all Apps (and "stable"). It's totally pointless to argue (and especially in this forum) whether Windows CE is in fact more stable and reliable than Android, so let's NOT go there.

Windows CE deliberately limits functionality and utility to maximize stability and reliability. Android has constantly expanded functionality and utility and in theory that complexity, and frequent revision and extension of the kernel reduces stability and reliability. At the very least, it introduces the possibility of a code defect slipping in; a defect that could possibly lead to a critical flight computer error. The probability of that happening is unquantifiable, but non-zero.

Stability and reliability are primary goals of sensible flight related computing. That's why NASA's Space Shuttle used computers and software long frozen in decades past. The old stuff was indisputably stable and reliable. It was old, but not antiquated. Using Windows CE follows a similar proven strategy.

I'm not saying that PNA's based on Windows CE are in fact more reliable than those running on Android. Nobody knows. But that's a big part of the engineers' intention.

[Roel Baardman]

> But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the same story for car navigators, no difference.

Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those people to buy a separate device instead of something like an Altair/LX9000 or similar devices?

[kirk.stant]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:46:11 PM UTC+1, Roel Baardman wrote:
> > But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the same story for car navigators, no difference.
>
>
>
> Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those people to buy a separate device instead of something like an Altair/LX9000 or similar devices?

Uh, cost? LX9000 is $5500, Oudie2 $650. That's a lot of tows!

I have an Oudie2 because I do NOT want to use my phone for navigation. And I like being able to take it home and practice with it, or experiment with different configurations, or update and checkout new data in the comfort of home.

Since I use an iPhone, I really don't care about Android's "cool features". I guess I've outgrown that phase...;^)

Kirk
66

[Richard Brisbourne[_2_]]

At 13:46 10 January 2013, Roel Baardman wrote:
>> But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the
same story for car
>navigators, no difference.
>
>Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those
people to buy a separate
>device instead of something like an Altair/LX9000 or
similar devices?
>

Price?
They like the software?

[Richard Brisbourne[_2_]]

At 14:18 10 January 2013, kirk.stant wrote:
>On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:46:11 PM UTC+1,
Roel Baardman wrote:
>> > But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the
same story for car
>navigators, no difference.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those
people to buy a
>separate device instead of something like an
Altair/LX9000 or similar
>devices?
>
>Uh, cost? LX9000 is $5500, Oudie2 $650. That's a lot
of tows!

V2/GG/Oudie Lite + LK8000: $380. Even more tows.

[Max Kellermann[_2_]]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:29:30 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> I have a friend that is using his android phone as his nav computer. He missed scoring a race day because having forgotten to place the phone in "aircraft mode" a call interrupted his IGC trace.

This was indeed an unfortunate problem with XCSoar, but I fixed that last spring (version 6.3.3).

Nowadays, I got a second SIM card for my Streak, to be able to use SkyLines live tracking. Rarely, I get a call during the flight, which is a bit annoying, but it never disrupts XCSoar.

(Note: if that problem still occurs, why doesn't your friend talk to us?)

[Max Kellermann[_2_]]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:40:30 PM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Comparing Windows CE and Android is comparing apples and oranges. They may appear to be equivalent and interchangeable to the end user, but under the skin, they are fundamentally different beasts.

Funny how your first sentence says you can NOT compare Windows CE and Android, and then the rest of your rather long post does EXACTLY THAT.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_CE
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29
>
>
>
> The bottom line is that Windows CE is intended to be utterly stable and reliable. That's a primary design goal.
>
>
>
> Android aspires to be all things to all Apps (and "stable"). It's totally pointless to argue (and especially in this forum) whether Windows CE is in fact more stable and reliable than Android, so let's NOT go there.
[...]

Wow, what a load of FUD. The Wikipedia links make your post look like you know what you're writing, but Wikipedia does not back up your claims. Don't say "in fact" when this is just your personal opinion, which you cannot substantiate.

> Windows CE deliberately limits functionality and utility to maximize stability and reliability. Android has constantly expanded functionality and utility and in theory that complexity, and frequent revision and extension of the kernel reduces stability and reliability. At the very least, it introduces the possibility of a code defect slipping in; a defect that could possibly lead to a critical flight computer error. The probability of that happening is unquantifiable, but non-zero.

Windows CE has limited functionality because back in the 90ies when it was developed, portable devices did not have enough power for the full-blown Windows. This has nothing to do with maximizing stability/reliability.

Windows CE has been abandoned by Microsoft, that's why it has not been expanded. Before it was abandoned, it was constantly expanded by Microsoft.

> Stability and reliability are primary goals of sensible flight related computing. That's why NASA's Space Shuttle used computers and software long frozen in decades past. The old stuff was indisputably stable and reliable. It was old, but not antiquated. Using Windows CE follows a similar proven strategy.

Wow, NASA. That makes Windows CE pretty stable. Oh, stop! You didn't say that NASA uses Windows CE. What was your argument, again? What was the point of mentioning NASA?

> I'm not saying that PNA's based on Windows CE are in fact more reliable than those running on Android. Nobody knows. But that's a big part of the engineers' intention.

I do know. I spent many years with both Windows CE and Android. I spent months of my lifetime debugging problems with XCSoar on Windows CE. I found so many bugs and instabilities in Windows CE, it's not funny. These bugs will never be fixed, because Windows CE is abandoned. Android is not bug-free, but compared to Windows CE, it feels like heaven.

Let me sum up your post:

1. one can't compare Android and Windows CE
2. you compare stability of Android vs Windows CE
3. it's pointless to compare stability of Android vs Windows CE, "let's not go there"
4. none of this matter, you don't know, because nobody knows

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:14:36 AM UTC-5, Max Kellermann wrote:
> On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:40:30 PM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:

I feel honored to be flamed by Max Kellerman.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:40:30 PM UTC, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Windows CE deliberately limits functionality and utility to maximize stability and reliability. Android has constantly expanded functionality and utility and in theory that complexity, and frequent revision and extension of the kernel reduces stability and reliability. At the very least, it introduces the possibility of a code defect slipping in; a defect that could possibly lead to a critical flight computer error. The probability of that happening is unquantifiable, but non-zero.
>
...
> Stability and reliability are primary goals of sensible flight related computing. That's why NASA's Space Shuttle used computers and software long frozen in decades past. The old stuff was indisputably stable and reliable. It was old, but not antiquated. Using Windows CE follows a similar proven strategy.

An interesting analogy. The number of unmanned spacecraft losses from software issues is nothing short of spectacular, and the Shuttle and Apollo programmes had their share of hazardous software issues during missions.

There's an awful lot of factors that have to come together to create a stable system, and very little substitute for intensive testing under diverse conditions. That's one thing that mass-market Android devices have in spades..

[Roel Baardman]

> Stability and reliability are primary goals of sensible flight related computing. That's why NASA's Space Shuttle used computers and software long frozen
in decades past. The old stuff was indisputably stable and reliable.

What I have always heard (note: I am not saying this is the actual reason) was that when you use 'old' computers, those computers are less prone to bit-
flipping by radiation from space. Even though such systems are generally built pretty fault tolerant (an odd number of units performing the same task with a
voter behind it, for example) the older chips were fast enough and simply a bit less prone to the bit-flipping.

[Roel Baardman]

Yup, cost makes sense. Especially if you add the fact that you can practice with a simulator more easily.

I always saw the remove-ability as a downside, since I thought it would affect the time needed to perform an emergency egress. I have also read about several
mishaps due to PDAs blocking the view to levers (especially in gliders with retractable engine).

[Tobias Bieniek]

Have you ever developed any applications for either one of those platforms? I won't say that Android is the most stable OS ever, but I have to agree with Max that it is faaaar better than WinCE. It starts with GDI memory leaking and ends with buggy serial port drivers on those outdated devices... Android might not be perfect either but at least everything works as documented and is actively maintained.

[Kimmo Hytoenen]

There has been stability problems with XCSoar running on
Android in Dell Streak phone.

When I started to look at flight computers for more serious XC
flying, I was scared away from IPAQs because of battery and
SW disappearing problems.

At that time Oudie was very expensive and not sunlight readable
IMO, and all Windows CE platforms had very poor display
resolution. So I purchased LG phone running Android. I
damaged it a little during outlanding, but I still use it sometimes.
I have never had any SW problems with it

DELL Streak still has the best display in practice, but it took
some time for me to get it working well. The operating system
needs to be updated, and it is difficult to do, since no more
support from DELL.

For me the wireless data communication is very important. I
want that my position can be seen by others at home online,
and I appreciate possibility to upload flights to OLC (& Skylines).
I still feel that the loading XCSoar updates from Google Play
store is amazingly simple.

Maybe the most important for me is the possibility to charge the
phone using IOIO card, and at the same time use it for serial
communication with several devices, like FLARMs and loggers,
variometers, and beeing able to define the task and loading it to
several devices easily.

I believe that these open source SW project have caused major
improvement to the gliding SW in general. The commercial SW
developers are surely following the development intensively,
and copying the best parts into their product.

[pcool]

Cost is one thing. But let's not forget one important thing: those who fly
club gliders cannot install a nice LX, altair, clearnav etc. so they must
have an independent removable solution.

Anyway, the thread was about V3 which I am afraid does not exist.


"Roel Baardman" wrote in message
...

> But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the same story for car
> navigators, no difference.

Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those people to buy a separate
device instead of something like an Altair/LX9000 or similar devices?

[pcool]

I think it is correct to say that problems with android are related to
environent, not to the OS itself.
Windows CE practically run alone, with no other tasks , on the device. It is
damn fast, limited on many aspects such as memory management, GDI, no
arguing, but what is not there cannot break.
When you run an android device, other software components are running in the
background together with the navigation software.
We may all agree on this fact, it is a matter of fine tuning the environment
sometimes, not only to install a software that can work flawlessy by itself.

This does explains why a dedicated device is somehow better, if fine tuned
for the scope, and why companies like Garmin and TomTom use their own OS
version (fine tuned out of linux, I guess).
Then the hunt for the perfect flight navigator moves from hardware to OS
tuning, because without the environment being friendly what you get is an
unstable device.

The advantage of CE is that there is nothing to tune. Also because tuning
it up, wouldnt make things much better HEHEHE



wrote in message
...

I have a friend that is using his android phone as his nav computer. He
missed scoring a race day because having forgotten to place the phone in
"aircraft mode" a call interrupted his IGC trace. I personally like my
phone in the "off" mode for battery preservation and my MIO in the "on" mode
for navigation.

Lane

[waremark]

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:16:47 PM UTC, Richard wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
>
>
> The Oudie 2 Lite is available and runs the free programs.
>
>
>
> I have several customers that replaced the V2 with the Oudie 2 Lite and say the Oudie is a much nicer unit and when you finally get the cabling and power converters for the V2 the Oudie is less expensive.
>
>
>
> http://www.craggyaero.com/oudie.htm
>

Hi Richard. It seems surprising that anyone has yet moved on from the V2 since it only became available quite late in the 2012 soaring season. They must have been really disappointed with the V2 to move on from it immediately, whereas I have not previously heard of anyone being disappointed with the V2/GliderGuider. What do these customers find that the Oudie 2 Lite does better than the V2?

In the UK, the GliderGuider comes for £265 including interface cables and carry case. The Oudie 2 Lite comes for £294, including interface cables but not carry case - in both cases plus shipping.

I bought a GliderGuider to replace my Oudie 1, rather than upgrading the Oudie to a brighter screen. I wanted the GG for the aviation optimised internal gps - more accurate positions while thermalling should mean better wind calculations, and better calculations of everything which depends on wind. I can see benefits of the Oudie but I would recommend the GG or equivalent to those expecting to use the internal gps.

I am generally very pro Naviter - excellent software and good support. I am using SeeYou Mobile on the GliderGuider rather than the free alternatives.

[Roel Baardman]

> This does explains why a dedicated device is somehow better, if fine tuned for the scope, and why companies like Garmin and TomTom use their own OS version
(fine tuned out of linux, I guess).

I've always wondered if there are no sunlight readable devices (or perhaps separate displays) running a normal Linux environment.
In the past Familiar Linux ran on the 3870s (it still does, but its all very outdated), but that ended some years ago.

[Tobias Bieniek]

> I believe that these open source SW project have caused major
> improvement to the gliding SW in general. The commercial SW
> developers are surely following the development intensively,
> and copying the best parts into their product.

Well let's hope they are not just copying them without having a look at the license... XCSoar (and LK8000) are free and open-source, but under a license that only allows others to use the source code if their software will be free and open-source too.

[pcool]

Correct, Oudie is still using the Atlas chipset which provides inaccurate
and often very wrong position while doing tight turns at our gliding speed
ranges, but offers also better performances.
This means no wind calculated, at all, if someone think about using the
internal gps.
If you connect it to an external source, it is of course just fine and
faster.
I think both prices are appealing, and Naviter is doing a good offer.


"waremark" wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:16:47 PM UTC, Richard wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
>
>
> The Oudie 2 Lite is available and runs the free programs.
>
>
>
> I have several customers that replaced the V2 with the Oudie 2 Lite and
> say the Oudie is a much nicer unit and when you finally get the cabling
> and power converters for the V2 the Oudie is less expensive.
>
>
>
> http://www.craggyaero.com/oudie.htm
>

Hi Richard. It seems surprising that anyone has yet moved on from the V2
since it only became available quite late in the 2012 soaring season. They
must have been really disappointed with the V2 to move on from it
immediately, whereas I have not previously heard of anyone being
disappointed with the V2/GliderGuider. What do these customers find that the
Oudie 2 Lite does better than the V2?

In the UK, the GliderGuider comes for £265 including interface cables and
carry case. The Oudie 2 Lite comes for £294, including interface cables but
not carry case - in both cases plus shipping.

I bought a GliderGuider to replace my Oudie 1, rather than upgrading the
Oudie to a brighter screen. I wanted the GG for the aviation optimised
internal gps - more accurate positions while thermalling should mean better
wind calculations, and better calculations of everything which depends on
wind. I can see benefits of the Oudie but I would recommend the GG or
equivalent to those expecting to use the internal gps.

I am generally very pro Naviter - excellent software and good support. I am
using SeeYou Mobile on the GliderGuider rather than the free alternatives.

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:51:37 AM UTC-5, Tobias Bieniek wrote:
> Have you ever developed any applications for either one of those platforms?

Quite the opposite. My background is in system software, from kernel up to the APIs called by application developers. So my perspective is different.. My career focus was on establishing the reliability of distributed systems inter-operating over multiple platforms, not web applications, more like the stuff you would find running in the back rooms on Wall Street and in another product on the back end of Dropbox.com There was a high value put on reliability.

I'm not a PNA developer, so I don't have a pony in this OS race. I'm an end user and I have the background to pose questions. Pardon my blind spots.


On Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:25:56 AM UTC-5, wrote:

> An interesting analogy. The number of unmanned spacecraft losses from software issues is nothing short of spectacular,

My point is that NASA choose to freeze development of some software and hardware because they realized that fixing known defects could introduce more serious defects. "The devil that you know is better than the devil that you don't know". In that sense CE is more predictable than Android.

> There's an awful lot of factors that have to come together to create a stable system, and very little substitute for intensive testing under diverse conditions. That's one thing that mass-market Android devices have in spades.

There is even more "testing under diverse conditions" when you consider that Android is derived from Linux and Linux shares DNA with unixes that predate Windows CE. That said, the best testing will only find a fraction of the lurking defects, and many defects encountered by end users will not be recognized as defects or reported. With that in mind, the way to create better code is to create fewer defects earlier in development. You can of course keep testing until you find no more defects, but that tells you nothing about the defects that your tests don't touch. Testing often produces false confidence and massive "testing" by end-users can yield a similar false confidence.


On Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:33:15 PM UTC-5, pcool wrote:
> I think it is correct to say that problems with android are related to
> environent, not to the OS itself. Windows CE practically run alone, with no > other tasks , on the device.

Good point. CE is a known quantity. Android devices also run the risk of malware and viruses. Ce virus and malware are not likely. If I ran PNA Android in the air, I would run it on a clean install of the OS with no other applications running (and on a tablet, not a phone).

[Kimmo Hytoenen]

makin open source-code is a bit like publishing a scientific article,
others papers cannot (or should not) copy 1:1 but the idea can be
used.
But that in part of the game, as well as debate of the features
(including user interfaces ;^)

At 19:36 10 January 2013, Tobias Bieniek wrote:
>> I believe that these open source SW project have caused major
>> improvement to the gliding SW in general. The commercial SW
>> developers are surely following the development intensively,
>> and copying the best parts into their product.
>
>Well let's hope they are not just copying them without having a look
at the
>license... XCSoar (and LK8000) are free and open-source, but
under a
>license that only allows others to use the source code if their
software
>will be free and open-source too.
>