Kerry's coming to OSH [Archive]

C J Campbell

February 17th 04, 04:06 PM

"Dave S" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I was wondering at what point secret service kicked in for potential
> candidates.. wouldnt that be the epitome of irony...
>

The Secret Service sends details to each of the likely candidates' homes and
moves in on the nominee the moment the vote is cast, setting up guards and
installing security devices. The nominee is likely to be at the convention,
so he will be surrounded by the SS detail already on station there. The
nominee will not be able to take one step toward the podium to make his
acceptance speech without his bodyguards. The TFR will already be in place
around the convention center and will have been there since before the start
of the convention.

There seems to be this huge misunderstanding that Presidents or candidates
cannot visit airshows without shutting the place down. In fact, they do go
to these events and the Secret Service negotiates security precautions with
the FAA. OSH might be tricky, though. Many aircraft going to OSH are
actually landing at nearby fields. A lot of them have no transponder or
radio, or even any electrical system of any kind. If Kerry or Bush were to
attend an event of this nature it would be over the most vehement objections
of the Secret Service.

If the SS had its way, candidates would only be allowed to campaign from
secure rooms via television feeds with no reporters or anyone else present.
The President would spend his entire career in a sealed box. The Mall and
Capitol Hill would become like Beijing's Forbidden City, with only security
and absolutely essential personnel allowed on the grounds. The Secret
Service understands that this is never going to happen, so they constantly
are negotiating their need for security against the President's need to meet
the public.

Although I voted for him, I have to say that Harry Browne is an idiot. He
believes that the Secret Service is unnecessary and that there would be no
terrorist attacks if the US did not interfere in other countries' affairs.
If government were smaller and less powerful, he believes, then the
President would not be a target for assassins. This is demonstrably stupid.
The government was much smaller and less powerful than what even Browne
advocates when Lincoln was assassinated. I somehow suspect that the United
States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.

Big John

February 17th 04, 04:53 PM

George

HeHeHeHeHe. Your a DOM :o)

Big John

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:24:56 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:

>
>
>Jay Honeck wrote:
>>
>> He was interviewed yesterday in currently-frozen OSH, saying that he was
>> working hard to arrange for his campaign to be there during the fly-in.
>
>About the worst thing Bush could do to Kerry at that point would be to set it
>up so that Kerry gets TFRs while he's campaigning.
>
>George Patterson
> A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
> you look forward to the trip.

Ash Wyllie

February 17th 04, 05:44 PM

C J Campbell opined

<snip>

>Although I voted for him, I have to say that Harry Browne is an idiot. He
>believes that the Secret Service is unnecessary and that there would be no
>terrorist attacks if the US did not interfere in other countries' affairs.
>If government were smaller and less powerful, he believes, then the
>President would not be a target for assassins. This is demonstrably stupid.
>The government was much smaller and less powerful than what even Browne
>advocates when Lincoln was assassinated. I somehow suspect that the United
>States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.

Lincoln is a bad example. A war time president needs a body guard. Garfield
(1881) and McKinley (1901) might be better examples.

-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

C J Campbell

February 17th 04, 06:43 PM

"Ash Wyllie" > wrote in message
...

> Lincoln is a bad example. A war time president needs a body guard.
Garfield
> (1881) and McKinley (1901) might be better examples.
>
>
>
> -ash
> Cthulhu for President!
> Why vote for a lesser evil?

But Cthulhu wouldn't need a bodyguard. In fact, he (it?) probably would not
even need a cabinet. And we sure wouldn't have any problem dealing with
thugs like Osama and Saddam. Hmmmmm. Now where did I put my copy of the
Necronimicon?

C J Campbell

February 17th 04, 06:46 PM

> -ash
> Cthulhu for President!
> Why vote for a lesser evil?
>

Rhynchophorus cruentatus for President!
Why vote for the lesser of two weevils?

Gig Giacona

February 17th 04, 06:49 PM

"Dave S" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I was wondering at what point secret service kicked in for potential
> candidates.. wouldnt that be the epitome of irony...
>
> A no fly zone at Osh.. just like the no fly zone at FFA...
>
> Dave
>

SS coverage starts pretty much when the nomination is assured.

Peter Duniho

February 17th 04, 09:24 PM

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
> [...] I somehow suspect that the United
> States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.

Yes, you're right. Of course it would. Not all enemies are creations of
one's own actions. Often, enemies are created by someone else with a
propaganda machine and an agenda.

Frankly, I think bin Laden's group falls into that category. Sure, we've
screwed up in the Middle East, but a) it's not like they're doing such a
great job of it themselves, and b) we haven't meddled enough to warrant the
kind of religious fervor being directed at us and other Western
civilizations, IMHO (obviously, they would disagree :) ).

Pete

Jonathan Goodish

February 17th 04, 09:31 PM

In article >,
"C J Campbell" > wrote:
> Although I voted for him, I have to say that Harry Browne is an idiot. He
> believes that the Secret Service is unnecessary and that there would be no
> terrorist attacks if the US did not interfere in other countries' affairs.
> If government were smaller and less powerful, he believes, then the
> President would not be a target for assassins. This is demonstrably stupid.
> The government was much smaller and less powerful than what even Browne
> advocates when Lincoln was assassinated. I somehow suspect that the United
> States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.

As long as the United States remains a free and prosperous nation
willing to stand up to our enemies, we will be despised by someone
always. While the federal government has grown far beyond the limits
provided in the US Constitution, the duty of the federal government to
protect the nation from foreign enemies has always been and will always
be.

Ultimately, the Secret Service wouldn't be doing their job if they
didn't want to keep the President and anyone else they protect in a
sealed box, and those protected public officials or candidates wouldn't
be doing their job if they didn't temper this enthusiasm for security
with their obligation to the people.

As for John Kerry's desire to visit OSH, I'm not impressed, unless you
can tell me that he's visited fly-ins before he became a candidate. A
candidate's willingness to show up for a photo op and good PR doesn't in
any way indicate his attitude toward aviation or anything else.

JKG

Tom Sixkiller

February 17th 04, 09:56 PM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:HgpYb.205488$U%5.1130646@attbi_s03...
> Okay, this guy can't be all bad. He's ridden a motorcycle to Milwaukee,
> *and* he's flown into OSH?
>
> He was interviewed yesterday in currently-frozen OSH, saying that he was
> working hard to arrange for his campaign to be there during the fly-in.
>
> I may not like his politics, but at least he's got his priorities
straight!
>
> :-)

Taxing all you rich, *******, airplane owners?

Tom Sixkiller

February 17th 04, 10:04 PM

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> The government was much smaller and less powerful than what even Browne
> advocates when Lincoln was assassinated. I somehow suspect that the United
> States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.

Lincoln was the one who set it on it's path of overarching power that it
employs today. From that point on, the president was more a ruler than a
governor. But, yes, Browne, like the rest of the anarchist wing of the LP,
have a very superficial view of what causes various problems. Like most
libertarians, they confuse liberty with "license". It's a very childish
perspective.

Ash Wyllie

February 17th 04, 10:38 PM

C J Campbell opined

>"Ash Wyllie" > wrote in message
...

>> Lincoln is a bad example. A war time president needs a body guard.
>Garfield
>> (1881) and McKinley (1901) might be better examples.
>>
>>
>>
>> -ash
>> Cthulhu for President!
>> Why vote for a lesser evil?

>But Cthulhu wouldn't need a bodyguard. In fact, he (it?) probably would not
>even need a cabinet. And we sure wouldn't have any problem dealing with
>thugs like Osama and Saddam. Hmmmmm. Now where did I put my copy of the
>Necronimicon?

The policy of the Great One would be to eat all assasins. As well as everyone
else.

-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

Roger Long

February 18th 04, 01:34 PM

Better hope Bush doesn't decide to show up in his rented flight suit and
TFR!

--
Roger Long

Dennis O'Connor

February 18th 04, 02:15 PM

I am deeply suspicious of any man like Kerry who incites class warfare, envy
politics, punitive taxation of the most productive, character assassination,
etc., but if he were to come to OSH I would cheerfully show him around and
try to convert him into an airplane nut - not that I have a snowball's
chance in hell of getting near him in the first place...
denny

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in . A
> candidate's willingness to show up for a photo op and good PR doesn't in
> any way indicate his attitude toward aviation or anything else.

Tom Sixkiller

February 18th 04, 02:34 PM

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
> I am deeply suspicious of any man like Kerry who incites class warfare,
envy
> politics, punitive taxation of the most productive, character
assassination,
> etc., but if he were to come to OSH I would cheerfully show him around and
> try to convert him into an airplane nut - not that I have a snowball's
> chance in hell of getting near him in the first place...
> denny

Iranian Terror Caucus http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000279.html

Dave S

February 18th 04, 03:10 PM

At the risk of sounding unpatriotic.. I agree with some of what you were
criticizing. America has actively earned the hatred of many abroad by
virtue of our foriegn policy and active meddling in the affairs of other
countries. We have supported former dictators on several occasions who
later we moved to depose when they no longer served our needs. We have a
reputation for being arrogant, impolite, demanding and hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong. I'm proud to be an American. I'm grateful that I
live in a land where I can disagree with the government and the majority
and live to talk about it. But at the risk of getting WAY off topic
here, I harbor the opinion that we as a collective nation have gone way
out of our way to rub other peoples noses in our percieved greatness. Up
until this most recent presidential administration, I considered myself
pretty solidly aligned with the Republican party, but the most recent
President and his "Go It Alone" stance that he undertook WELL before
9/11 has led me to reconsider my political affiliations.

Regardless of the international picture, the greatest threat to the
President (historically speaking) has been from citizens of our own
country. I can't recall a single assasination or attempt on a President
that was proven to have happened from the act of a Foreign national.

OK.. enough rambling.. I hope I can afford to make OSH this year. I laid
out last year, and I have to admit.. I really missed it.

Dave

C J Campbell wrote:
> "Dave S" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
>>I was wondering at what point secret service kicked in for potential
>>candidates.. wouldnt that be the epitome of irony...
>>
>
>
> The Secret Service sends details to each of the likely candidates' homes and
> moves in on the nominee the moment the vote is cast, setting up guards and
> installing security devices. The nominee is likely to be at the convention,
> so he will be surrounded by the SS detail already on station there. The
> nominee will not be able to take one step toward the podium to make his
> acceptance speech without his bodyguards. The TFR will already be in place
> around the convention center and will have been there since before the start
> of the convention.
>
> There seems to be this huge misunderstanding that Presidents or candidates
> cannot visit airshows without shutting the place down. In fact, they do go
> to these events and the Secret Service negotiates security precautions with
> the FAA. OSH might be tricky, though. Many aircraft going to OSH are
> actually landing at nearby fields. A lot of them have no transponder or
> radio, or even any electrical system of any kind. If Kerry or Bush were to
> attend an event of this nature it would be over the most vehement objections
> of the Secret Service.
>
> If the SS had its way, candidates would only be allowed to campaign from
> secure rooms via television feeds with no reporters or anyone else present.
> The President would spend his entire career in a sealed box. The Mall and
> Capitol Hill would become like Beijing's Forbidden City, with only security
> and absolutely essential personnel allowed on the grounds. The Secret
> Service understands that this is never going to happen, so they constantly
> are negotiating their need for security against the President's need to meet
> the public.
>
> Although I voted for him, I have to say that Harry Browne is an idiot. He
> believes that the Secret Service is unnecessary and that there would be no
> terrorist attacks if the US did not interfere in other countries' affairs.
> If government were smaller and less powerful, he believes, then the
> President would not be a target for assassins. This is demonstrably stupid.
> The government was much smaller and less powerful than what even Browne
> advocates when Lincoln was assassinated. I somehow suspect that the United
> States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.
>
>

Jay Honeck

February 18th 04, 03:11 PM

> etc., but if he were to come to OSH I would cheerfully show him around and
> try to convert him into an airplane nut - not that I have a snowball's
> chance in hell of getting near him in the first place...

That's the point, Denny -- he already IS an airplane nut.

No one has mentioned this, but I think we are EXTREMELY fortunate that we
have two pilots running for our highest office. Even though Bush and Kerry
are diametrically opposed politically, I like to think that anyone who has
flown has the attitude and ability we're looking for in a leader.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck

February 18th 04, 03:16 PM

> Better hope Bush doesn't decide to show up in his rented flight suit and
> TFR!

Bush's F-102 flight instructor -- a crusty, old, 270 pound former judo
instructor -- is quoted in this week's Newsweek as saying that "Bush was in
the top 5% of fighter pilots he's ever trained..."

Newsweek also reports that Bush inquired about being transferred to Viet Nam
for combat duty, and was told that (a) the F-102 in which he was rated and
current was considered obsolete for combat operations, and (b) he had too
few flight hours. Thus, his inquiry was rejected.

Sounds like old GW is more legit than some of you like to believe...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jonathan Goodish

February 18th 04, 07:56 PM

In article >,
"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote:

> I am deeply suspicious of any man like Kerry who incites class warfare, envy
> politics, punitive taxation of the most productive, character assassination,
> etc., but if he were to come to OSH I would cheerfully show him around and
> try to convert him into an airplane nut - not that I have a snowball's
> chance in hell of getting near him in the first place...

Well, good luck. My point is that the politicians show up for photo ops
and good PR every chance they get, and often they have little to no
interest in YOUR interests when they do show up. If Kerry or Bush or
anyone else decides to show up at OSH, it in no way indicates that they
are actually an advocate of GA. Politicians are necessarily
self-serving above all else. Caution when dancing with the devil.

JKG

Jonathan Goodish

February 18th 04, 08:06 PM

In article <QgLYb.346535$xy6.1729760@attbi_s02>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> No one has mentioned this, but I think we are EXTREMELY fortunate that we
> have two pilots running for our highest office. Even though Bush and Kerry
> are diametrically opposed politically, I like to think that anyone who has
> flown has the attitude and ability we're looking for in a leader.

I hate to say it, and no offense to the company in this thread, but
there are lots of people in fairly lofty professions who like to go out
and buy, boats, fast cars, etc. only because they can and they'd like
everyone to know it. I've encountered quite a few of those folks in my
short aviation career. Those pilots usually end up dead or dormant
after a few years, the airplane ego having run its course.

It's very difficult to tell what Kerry's or Bush's true feelings are
about GA. It does seem that some of Bush's political advisers feel that
they can score some good PR with the non-flying public by throwing up
restrictions on GA operations whenever they please, and I don't have any
reason to believe that Kerry's political advisers would be any
different. I really believe that it could be a lot, lot worse for us,
like if a trial lawyer were in the White House.

JKG

Jay Masino

February 18th 04, 11:29 PM

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> No one has mentioned this, but I think we are EXTREMELY fortunate that we
> have two pilots running for our highest office. Even though Bush and Kerry
> are diametrically opposed politically, I like to think that anyone who has
> flown has the attitude and ability we're looking for in a leader.

That's silly. There are a lot of bone-head pilots that don't have what
it takes to be leaders. In addition, I don't consider Governor Shrub a
pilot, anymore. Kerry, from all reports, has been an active pilot
(probably not recently, during the election). Shrub hasn't flown since
he left the guard. How much could he love flying if he hasn't even
bothered to do it in 30 years? Money certainly wasn't a problem. In
fact, I don't buy the point you made about his ex-instructor putting him
in the top 5% of his students. If he was that good, he would have kept
flying. To be that good, you have to love it. And if he loved it, he
wouldn't have stopped.

--- Jay

--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

http://www.oceancityairport.com/
http://www.oc-adolfos.com/

Jay Honeck

February 18th 04, 11:36 PM

> I don't buy the point you made about his ex-instructor putting him
> in the top 5% of his students. If he was that good, he would have kept
> flying. To be that good, you have to love it. And if he loved it, he
> wouldn't have stopped.

I agree, that's odd.

But I've known a fair number of pilots who quit flying. I don't know how,
or why.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jonathan Goodish

February 19th 04, 01:21 AM

In article et>,
Dave S > wrote:

> At the risk of sounding unpatriotic.. I agree with some of what you were
> criticizing. America has actively earned the hatred of many abroad by
> virtue of our foriegn policy and active meddling in the affairs of other
> countries. We have supported former dictators on several occasions who
> later we moved to depose when they no longer served our needs. We have a
> reputation for being arrogant, impolite, demanding and hypocritical.

There is a difference between the times when we "meddled" in places that
we shouldn't have, such as in Somolia and in Kosovo, and defending
ourselves, such as in Iraq and Afghanistan. But, either way, that's not
why we're hated. We're hated because we are a free nation and, by that
virtue, a productive nation. Productive nations produce wealth.
Problem is, you have to have freedom to have productivity, and there are
a lot of bad guy dictators out there who won't permit their people to be
freely productive. Almost *ALL* of the countries in the Middle East,
except Israel, are guilty of denying freedom to their people, but the
Islamic countries certainly aren't the only ones who are guilty.

"Meddling" is simply a convenient excuse for foreign leaders to deflect
attention away from the real problem, which is most often those foreign
leaders themselves.

JKG

Jonathan Goodish

February 19th 04, 01:33 AM

In article et>,
Dave S > wrote:
> here, I harbor the opinion that we as a collective nation have gone way
> out of our way to rub other peoples noses in our percieved greatness. Up
> until this most recent presidential administration, I considered myself
> pretty solidly aligned with the Republican party, but the most recent
> President and his "Go It Alone" stance that he undertook WELL before
> 9/11 has led me to reconsider my political affiliations.

I'm not sure who's "going it alone" and how you know that the Bush
administration had a "Go It Alone" policy before 9/11. If you're
referring to the Iraq war, it seems to me that we spent a huge amount of
time screwing around with the United Nations if our policy was going to
be "Go It Alone" regardless of what anyone else said. And last time I
checked the facts, we didn't "Go It Alone" in Iraq or Afghanistan anyway.

Our policy should be "Go It Alone" if that's what's necessary to protect
our own interests. If we aren't willing to "Go It Alone" to protect
ourselves then we will eventually cease to exist as an independent
country.

> Regardless of the international picture, the greatest threat to the
> President (historically speaking) has been from citizens of our own
> country. I can't recall a single assasination or attempt on a President
> that was proven to have happened from the act of a Foreign national.

The greatest threat to the President and Congress should be from our own
people, though our kind and generous federal government continues to do
what they can to disarm the population.

The founding fathers intended for the people to be able to forcably
overthrow a corrupt or overreaching government. The US Constitution
specifically prohibts the federal government from engaging in most of
the things that it engages in today. However, the US Constitution, as
all governing documents in any democratic society, is only as good as
the people's will to enforce it. The lure of hand-outs and special
interests is too tempting for most people, and that includes the
aviation community.

JKG

Bob Noel

February 19th 04, 03:10 AM

In article <cGSYb.340944$I06.3556110@attbi_s01>, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

> > I don't buy the point you made about his ex-instructor putting him
> > in the top 5% of his students. If he was that good, he would have kept
> > flying. To be that good, you have to love it. And if he loved it, he
> > wouldn't have stopped.
>
> I agree, that's odd.
>
> But I've known a fair number of pilots who quit flying. I don't know how,
> or why.

Someone I worked with was an A-10 driver and a test pilot. He
doesn't fly anymore because bugsmasher flying isn't why he loved
flying. A friend who was an F-111 WSO talks about how the flying
I do in my 140 ain't anything like the low level flying he did.

--
Bob Noel

Big John

February 19th 04, 05:20 AM

They sent a detachment of 4-6 F-102's to VN on rotation from Japan.
The 'Duce' was built to attack bombers and not fighters and was not a
dog fighting aircraft.

Several were destroyed at Da Nang, where they were based, during a
sapper attack. They never came close to shooting down any MIGS.

Were withdrawn after less than a year.

Big John

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:16:24 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> Better hope Bush doesn't decide to show up in his rented flight suit and
>> TFR!
>
>Bush's F-102 flight instructor -- a crusty, old, 270 pound former judo
>instructor -- is quoted in this week's Newsweek as saying that "Bush was in
>the top 5% of fighter pilots he's ever trained..."
>
>Newsweek also reports that Bush inquired about being transferred to Viet Nam
>for combat duty, and was told that (a) the F-102 in which he was rated and
>current was considered obsolete for combat operations, and (b) he had too
>few flight hours. Thus, his inquiry was rejected.
>
>Sounds like old GW is more legit than some of you like to believe...

Jack Allison

February 19th 04, 06:42 AM

*And* attend the r.a.p gathering at Jay and Mary's campsite! Extra credit
if you stay at their hotel for the pool
party/BBQ/suck-down-free-beer-that-Jay-buys event (still working on that one
myself...some year Jay, the weather is going to push us far enough South).

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Tom Sixkiller

February 19th 04, 02:34 PM

"Dave S" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> At the risk of sounding unpatriotic.. I agree with some of what you were
> criticizing. America has actively earned the hatred of many abroad by
> virtue of our foriegn policy and active meddling in the affairs of other
> countries.

Like the UN does every day? (And the rest of the world intervenes through
them)

How about our Foreign aid? Do they mind that meddling? How about the World
Bank?

> We have supported former dictators on several occasions who
> later we moved to depose when they no longer served our needs.

Like the USSR during WW2?

>We have a
> reputation for being arrogant, impolite, demanding and hypocritical.

That wounds like the world in general...that same world that never seems to
mind our bailing them out several times in the past 100 years.

Dennis O'Connor

February 19th 04, 04:15 PM

You are absolutely right, but I can still hope - even without voting for
them...
denny
"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dennis O'Connor" > wrote:
>
> > I am deeply suspicious of any man like Kerry who incites class warfare,
envy
> > politics, punitive taxation of the most productive, character
assassination,
> > etc., but if he were to come to OSH I would cheerfully show him around
and
> > try to convert him into an airplane nut - not that I have a snowball's
> > chance in hell of getting near him in the first place...
>
>
> Well, good luck. My point is that the politicians show up for photo ops
> and good PR every chance they get, and often they have little to no
> interest in YOUR interests when they do show up. If Kerry or Bush or
> anyone else decides to show up at OSH, it in no way indicates that they
> are actually an advocate of GA. Politicians are necessarily
> self-serving above all else. Caution when dancing with the devil.
>
>
> JKG

David Dyer-Bennet

February 19th 04, 04:28 PM

"Tom Sixkiller" > writes:

> How about our Foreign aid? Do they mind that meddling?

Well, historically an amazing amount of our foreign aid has gone to
support repressive dictators. People in countries where they had to
live through that probably *do* remember, and dislike, our foreign
aid. More broadly, it often comes with strings attached, and it often
makes no sense. People could easily notice and find that
objectionable.

> How about the World Bank?

Rather out of favor in a lot of places. And widely viewed as an agent
of the US, though we don't formally control it.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

Newps

February 19th 04, 11:18 PM

Jay Honeck wrote:

>
> But I've known a fair number of pilots who quit flying. I don't know how,
> or why.

I have given up a number of activities over the years, for various
reasons. One is ham radio. I used to be pretty active on the HF bands
and gathered about 180 countries in about three years of activity.
After getting married I sold the HF radio but stayed on 2 meters for a
while. Still have a 2 meter radio now but only use it to monitor the
aviation band.

Jay Honeck

February 20th 04, 04:53 AM

> I have given up a number of activities over the years, for various
> reasons. One is ham radio.

Apples and oranges. As fascinating as ham radio can be, it ain't flying.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Dennis O'Connor

February 20th 04, 01:58 PM

Long, long, ago, in a galaxy far, far away, for one entire winter I used to
chat with Paul every tuesday night, the navigator on board a NORAD bomber,
loitering somewhere to the north of Michigan near the arctic pole... He, of
course, could not tell me where he was < I knew enough not to ask>, but by
switching antennas I knew the direction... He was one bored puppy stuck on
an 18 hour ride, several times a week...
denny

"Jay Honeck" > wrote > Apples and oranges. As
fascinating as ham radio can be, it ain't flying.

G.R. Patterson III

February 20th 04, 02:39 PM

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> I know we kept recon early warning flights airborne for much of the Cold
> War, but I didn't know we kept bombers in the air.

We kept armed B-52s up at all times through at least 1980. There's an H-bomb
at the bottom of the ocean off the coast of Spain and another one in the Gulf
near Alabama. I don't remember why they were jettisoned. Prior to the buffs,
we kept B-36s up and had F-100s carrying nukes out of Turkish bases.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

John Gaquin

February 20th 04, 03:41 PM

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
>
> ....There's an H-bomb
> at the bottom of the ocean off the coast of Spain and another one in the
Gulf
> near Alabama.

I thought they found that one off Spain. Or, did they jettison two and find
only one?

JG

John Gaquin

February 20th 04, 03:43 PM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
> I know we kept recon early warning flights airborne for much of the Cold
> War, but I didn't know we kept bombers in the air.
>
> What year would this have been?

There were armed Buffs orbiting in Intl airspace close to Soviet 24/7 for
about 25-30 years.

G.R. Patterson III

February 20th 04, 03:55 PM

John Gaquin wrote:
>
> I thought they found that one off Spain.

They certainly might have recovered it and I missed the news.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

Newps

February 20th 04, 04:32 PM

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>I have given up a number of activities over the years, for various
>>reasons. One is ham radio.
>
>
> Apples and oranges. As fascinating as ham radio can be, it ain't flying.

It was when I was really into it.

Newps

February 20th 04, 04:35 PM

It was actually part of a show on the History channel. The B52's tail
came off during refueling. The nose pitched down, the fuselage hit the
back of the KC135 which exploded. All the B52 guys got out and were
interviewed on the show, all three tanker crew died. The Air Force
descended on this little town in Spain. Pretty cool show.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

>
> John Gaquin wrote:
>
>>I thought they found that one off Spain.
>
>
> They certainly might have recovered it and I missed the news.
>
> George Patterson
> A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
> you look forward to the trip.

Big John

February 20th 04, 05:34 PM

Denny

Picky, Picky, Picky <G>

NORAD ran the ground radar systems and used the Fighters and Missiles
(BOMARC) to defend Canada and the US from any Russian bomber attack.
They passed the detection of a bomber attack to SAC (and National
Authority) and launched Fighters to kill the bombers.

Our Bombers were run by SAC out of Omaha and when authorized by
President (say Football) would have executed the SIOP. NORAD had
nothing to due with our Bombers.

On a day to day basis in those years, SAC kept a modest number of
armed bombers in the air 7/24 to assure we could kill the #1 targets
in Russia under any circumstances.

During those on station missions SAC (starting with Le May) generated
a bunch of 'Mickey Mouse" activities to keep the crews busy and not
let them die of boredom from 'flying in a circle'. There were of
course other areas where they held or flew in than orbiting in the
arctic.

I'm surprised about the Nav getting on Ham freqs. In SAC there were
random contacts from Omaha that required crews to monitor with all
their radios. Was also a AF (as I recall) reg that said no ham radio.
I used to, when the HF was not being used, get on ham freqs
occasionally and talk :o) Also did some on 220. Used my Ham call and
not any A/C ID.

Long time ago in a War far away.

Big John

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:58:34 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
> wrote:

>Long, long, ago, in a galaxy far, far away, for one entire winter I used to
>chat with Paul every tuesday night, the navigator on board a NORAD bomber,
>loitering somewhere to the north of Michigan near the arctic pole... He, of
>course, could not tell me where he was < I knew enough not to ask>, but by
>switching antennas I knew the direction... He was one bored puppy stuck on
>an 18 hour ride, several times a week...
>denny
>
>"Jay Honeck" > wrote > Apples and oranges. As
>fascinating as ham radio can be, it ain't flying.
>

Dennis O'Connor

February 20th 04, 05:47 PM

Umm, strain brain, strain brain
- smoke rolling out, belts squealing, do you how much junk I havstashed in
my head -
it would have been '67 as best I can remember..
denny
"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:vvoZb.365334$na.562740@attbi_s04...
> > Long, long, ago, in a galaxy far, far away, for one entire winter I used
> to
> > chat with Paul every tuesday night, the navigator on board a NORAD
bomber,
> > loitering somewhere to the north of Michigan near the arctic pole.
>
> I know we kept recon early warning flights airborne for much of the Cold
> War, but I didn't know we kept bombers in the air.
>
> What year would this have been?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

Jay Honeck

February 20th 04, 06:04 PM

> We kept armed B-52s up at all times through at least 1980.

Up? Or on 5-minute scramble alert?

I didn't think we kept them airborne 24/7...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck

February 20th 04, 06:11 PM

Thanks for the clarification and history, Big John. As always, we're
indebted to you and your expertise.

I had no idea that we kept the bombers airborne 24/7 -- I thought it was
just "Looking Glass" and recon stuff that was always in the air, with the
bombers on stand-by alert.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Big John

February 20th 04, 06:11 PM

G.R.

Off Spain a B-52 and it's tanker collided. Tanker crew perished. 5 of
B-52 crew ejected ok.

B-52 had four bombs aboard. Three stayed in bomber when it crashed. HE
on two bombs went off and scattered Nuc material and we (US) took 1500
tons of dirt back here to dispose of.

4th bomb fell clear of A/C and into the water. It took 80 days to
locate and recover.

No record of any Alabama incident I can find.

One near Goldsboro, NC off). B-52 broke up in flight (wing fell off)
and dropped two bombs. One safety chute failed and bomb impacted
ground with 5 of the 6 safety switches activated (24 Mega ton
Weapon).

B-52 crashed landing at Tule Air Base, Greenland. Fire and Nuc
material scattered on Ice. Big clean up.

Other accidents through the years.

Airborne alert was discontinued in 1968 and since then Military A/C
weapon accidents have diminished.

Big John

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:39:10 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:

>
>
>Jay Honeck wrote:
>>
>> I know we kept recon early warning flights airborne for much of the Cold
>> War, but I didn't know we kept bombers in the air.
>
>We kept armed B-52s up at all times through at least 1980. There's an H-bomb
>at the bottom of the ocean off the coast of Spain and another one in the Gulf
>near Alabama. I don't remember why they were jettisoned. Prior to the buffs,
>we kept B-36s up and had F-100s carrying nukes out of Turkish bases.
>
>George Patterson
> A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
> you look forward to the trip.

Dennis O'Connor

February 20th 04, 06:19 PM

BTW, do a google on terms like
cold war
sac
Curtiss LeMay
airborne command center

Not only were there 52's with nukes constantly airborne, also 24/7 there was
a general in the air who was empowered to initiate nuclear war by all assets
of the US military and to take control of the USA if nukes wiped out our
federal government and our military command in their entirety... Literally,
Armegeddon would happen if we were attacked....

You are too young to know these things... Those of us who lived through
them, will never forget... As a young man I used to drive by the airbase
here in Michigan, and B-52's with nuclear weapons aboard were parked in
rows, roughly 150 feet from the road, ready for immediate takeoff... There
were armed MP's standing at intervals between the bombers, and signs
prohibitng stopping or taking pictures, and if you slowed down too much they
would point and tell you to get a move on... But, if you waved and smiled,
they would wave back... The government and the people were vastly more
unified in that era, except for some of the liberal universities... I never
heard of anyone getting shot at, but a car load of lads with a too much beer
in their skins did stop and try to take pictures one time and got
arrested...
denny

"Jay Honeck" > wrote > I know we kept recon early
warning flights airborne for much of the Cold
> War, but I didn't know we kept bombers in the air.

Jay Honeck

February 20th 04, 06:42 PM

> One near Goldsboro, NC off). B-52 broke up in flight (wing fell off)
> and dropped two bombs. One safety chute failed and bomb impacted
> ground with 5 of the 6 safety switches activated (24 Mega ton
> Weapon).

Yikes! How do the safety switches on an H bomb work?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck

February 20th 04, 06:51 PM

> You are too young to know these things... Those of us who lived through
> them, will never forget...

Oh, I'm not so young.

In 1983, Mary and I were in a cabin in northern Wisconsin, enjoying, um,
ourselves. Kids were many years in the future, and it was about 25 below
zero outside. We were alone and 10 hours' drive from just about anything...

In those pre-internet days, short-wave radio was still prevalent. I brought
mine along, figuring I could pick up some pretty amazing signals way up
north, away from the big cities and all that interference. (Yes, I was a
dazzling romantic, even then... ;-)

That night, the Soviet Union shot down the Korean airliner near Sakhalin
(sp?) Island, and the world held its breath. Radio Moscow was full of
calls for war, and all other bands were solid with news of impending doom.

We knew we were not too far from K.I. Sawyer air base -- with all those
B-52s -- and figured we'd be vaporized before morning.

We had a helluva night. We truly thought the end of the world was at hand.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Malcolm Teas

February 20th 04, 07:53 PM

Dave S > wrote in message et>...
> I was wondering at what point secret service kicked in for potential
> candidates.. wouldnt that be the epitome of irony...

It's kicked in. Google news was showing an article earlier today that
the SS has a detail with Kerry now.

So, we now have a TFR in Chief, and an aspiring TFR in Chief, and the
Vice TFR in Chief of course. TFR season here we come!

-Malcolm Teas

Malcolm Teas

February 20th 04, 08:01 PM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<clLYb.214124$U%5.1239757@attbi_s03>...
> > Better hope Bush doesn't decide to show up in his rented flight suit and
> > TFR!
>
> Bush's F-102 flight instructor -- a crusty, old, 270 pound former judo
> instructor -- is quoted in this week's Newsweek as saying that "Bush was in
> the top 5% of fighter pilots he's ever trained..."

Sounds good. Then why did he stop flying? I'm still a low-time
pilot, but I can't imagine suddenly stopping flying and, to all
appearances, not thinking about it again.

> Newsweek also reports that Bush inquired about being transferred to Viet Nam
> for combat duty, and was told that (a) the F-102 in which he was rated and
> current was considered obsolete for combat operations, and (b) he had too
> few flight hours. Thus, his inquiry was rejected.

If he wanted to fly, why didn't he attempt to get training in
something that was being flown more?

> Sounds like old GW is more legit than some of you like to believe...

Perhaps. But there's a lotta odd dangling ends of things. Too many
inconsistencies for my personal taste.

-Malcolm Teas

Dennis O'Connor

February 20th 04, 09:46 PM

<drum roll.....>
Really, really well, obviously!

"Jay Honeck" > wrote > Yikes! How do the safety
switches on an H bomb work?

Jay Honeck

February 20th 04, 10:53 PM

> Sounds good. Then why did he stop flying? I'm still a low-time
> pilot, but I can't imagine suddenly stopping flying and, to all
> appearances, not thinking about it again.

Agree 100%. But I've known a fair number of people who have learned to fly,
flown for a while, and then quit. Some were even aircraft owners, which
meant they had REALLY gone down the aviation rabbit-hole.

I have no idea how they can do it -- or why. But I'll admit I never quite
trust them again after I find out they were "once" pilots.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Big John

February 21st 04, 12:09 AM

Jay

Have seen the figure of 12 airborne 7/24 out of 4-500 bombers we had.
Don't hold me to those exact figures but will give you an idea. These
missions were called "Chrome Dome". One flight path was around
northern Pacific. Another one was over to the Med and return. Some
missions were 24 +/- hr flights. Med is where they lost the two birds
and 4 bombs with the mid air off Spain.

'Looking Glass' flew out of Offutt with a General aboard 7/24. Was a
backup C and C in case Washington got hit and National Authority
zapped. New bird was airborne and checked out before old bird landed.
If trouble getting the replacement airborne, the old bird just punched
a tanker until their replacement got airborne.

Glad the MAD has been put to bed.

Big John

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:11:27 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the clarification and history, Big John. As always, we're
>indebted to you and your expertise.
>
>I had no idea that we kept the bombers airborne 24/7 -- I thought it was
>just "Looking Glass" and recon stuff that was always in the air, with the
>bombers on stand-by alert.

Jay Honeck

February 21st 04, 02:16 AM

> Glad the MAD has been put to bed.

Yeah, except now the Russkies have apparently developed a maneuverable
warhead for their ICBM, making our Strategic Defense Initiative stuff
obsolete. It was in the news that they just successfully tested it this
week.

Which leaves us back with Mutual Assured Destruction as our only viable
"defense"... :-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

John Gaquin

February 21st 04, 02:41 AM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
> Which leaves us back with Mutual Assured Destruction as our only viable
> "defense"... :-(

Not really. World is a very different place now than then A) Russia is
*not* the Soviet Union. B) Russia can't even come close to affording the
hint of an arms race. They are effectively bankrupt, but for the good
graces of a variety of western countries and lenders. C) The whole world
knows they are bankrupt and impotent, unlike the scenario through the 70s
and 80s, when they effectively bluffed the world. That was the simple
genius of RR's policy re USSR. He knew in his gut that they were finished,
and he called their bluff.

This latest probably relates as much to their domestic politics (election)
as it does to the world chessboard.

Doug Carter

February 21st 04, 04:07 AM

On 2004-02-21, Big John > wrote:

> Glad the MAD has been put to bed.

Glad it worked.

Earl Grieda

February 21st 04, 04:26 AM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:UbzZb.356568$I06.3764118@attbi_s01...
> > Glad the MAD has been put to bed.
>
> Yeah, except now the Russkies have apparently developed a maneuverable
> warhead for their ICBM, making our Strategic Defense Initiative stuff
> obsolete. It was in the news that they just successfully tested it this
> week.

The whole arguement for the SDI was that it was for "rogue" states and would
be useless against Russia.

Earl G

Tom Sixkiller

February 21st 04, 10:01 AM

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> John Gaquin wrote:
> >
> > I thought they found that one off Spain.
>
> They certainly might have recovered it and I missed the news.
>

Now we'll have to kill you...

Tom Sixkiller

February 21st 04, 10:11 AM

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> >
> > Which leaves us back with Mutual Assured Destruction as our only viable
> > "defense"... :-(
>
> Not really. World is a very different place now than then A) Russia is
> *not* the Soviet Union. B) Russia can't even come close to affording the
> hint of an arms race. They are effectively bankrupt, but for the good
> graces of a variety of western countries and lenders. C) The whole world
> knows they are bankrupt and impotent, unlike the scenario through the 70s
> and 80s, when they effectively bluffed the world.
>
Yet they still spend a fortune on missile weapons technology...

Tom Sixkiller

February 21st 04, 10:12 AM

"Earl Grieda" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:UbzZb.356568$I06.3764118@attbi_s01...
> > > Glad the MAD has been put to bed.
> >
> > Yeah, except now the Russkies have apparently developed a maneuverable
> > warhead for their ICBM, making our Strategic Defense Initiative stuff
> > obsolete. It was in the news that they just successfully tested it
this
> > week.
>
> The whole arguement for the SDI was that it was for "rogue" states and
would
> be useless against Russia.
>
Then why did their own people say that our going ahead with SDI told them
they were up a dead end?

Tom Sixkiller

February 21st 04, 10:13 AM

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> G.R.
>
> Off Spain a B-52 and it's tanker collided. Tanker crew perished. 5 of
> B-52 crew ejected ok.
>
> B-52 had four bombs aboard. Three stayed in bomber when it crashed. HE
> on two bombs went off and scattered Nuc material and we (US) took 1500
> tons of dirt back here to dispose of.
>
> 4th bomb fell clear of A/C and into the water. It took 80 days to
> locate and recover.
>
> No record of any Alabama incident I can find.
>
> One near Goldsboro, NC off). B-52 broke up in flight (wing fell off)
> and dropped two bombs. One safety chute failed and bomb impacted
> ground with 5 of the 6 safety switches activated (24 Mega ton
> Weapon).
>
> B-52 crashed landing at Tule Air Base, Greenland. Fire and Nuc
> material scattered on Ice. Big clean up.
>

And those are just _our_ foul-ups.

Martin Hotze

February 21st 04, 11:23 AM

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:34:44 -0600, Big John wrote:

>Long time ago in a War far away.

A was deeply impressed while visiting the Titan II missile museum near
Tucson, AZ (when you are at the Pima Air and Space museum you might buy a
pass for the museum, the tour at Davis Monthan AFB and the Titan II). They
have an intercontinental missile with control center etc. there which is
open to the public. After seeing that I realized what cold war really
meant.
From the Titan II missiles they had about 40 or so in service and it only
needed 3 of them well placed to destroy the whole USA (just to have some
relations). And they had about 40 only of this prodution line (and
intercontinental long range is more a stratetic weapon than a first strike
weapon).

Well, the guide was a more than 70 year old man being very proud about the
nukes and not even considered with a blink of his eyes any alternatives or
was not really glad about disarmament.

#m
--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

Martin Hotze

February 21st 04, 11:25 AM

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:11:27 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

>I had no idea that we kept the bombers airborne 24/7 -- I thought it was
>just "Looking Glass" and recon stuff that was always in the air, with the
>bombers on stand-by alert.

... and you really don't want to know what happened along the German-German
border or along the iron curtain during these years or when a submarine
from the UdSSR was spottet.

#m

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

Martin Hotze

February 21st 04, 11:28 AM

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 02:16:21 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

>Yeah, except now the Russkies have apparently developed a maneuverable
>warhead for their ICBM

who are the "Russkies"?

besides ... just take enough money to one of the new countries developed
out of the former Soviet Union. There are enough people with enough
knowledge waiting too long for their salaries.

#m

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

Martin Hotze

February 21st 04, 11:50 AM

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 03:11:03 -0700, Tom Sixkiller wrote:

>Yet they still spend a fortune on missile weapons technology...

and for know they are the only ones to deliver to the ISS

#m

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

Jay Honeck

February 21st 04, 02:10 PM

> who are the "Russkies"?

Um, the Russians? From the land of Rus.

> besides ... just take enough money to one of the new countries developed
> out of the former Soviet Union. There are enough people with enough
> knowledge waiting too long for their salaries.

And do what with it?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

G.R. Patterson III

February 21st 04, 02:48 PM

Big John wrote:
>
> No record of any Alabama incident I can find.

Sorry. Should've been Georgia. Here's one account.

http://www.tybeetime.com/tb/Pravda.htm

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

Newps

February 21st 04, 03:09 PM

Earl Grieda wrote:

> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:UbzZb.356568$I06.3764118@attbi_s01...
>
>>>Glad the MAD has been put to bed.
>>
>>Yeah, except now the Russkies have apparently developed a maneuverable
>>warhead for their ICBM, making our Strategic Defense Initiative stuff
>>obsolete. It was in the news that they just successfully tested it this
>>week.
>
>
> The whole arguement for the SDI was that it was for "rogue" states and would
> be useless against Russia.

No, it wasn't. It was specifically designed to get the USSR to go
bankrupt. And if by some chance it could be made to work, so much the
better.

Newps

February 21st 04, 03:10 PM

Martin Hotze wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:11:27 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>
>>I had no idea that we kept the bombers airborne 24/7 -- I thought it was
>>just "Looking Glass" and recon stuff that was always in the air, with the
>>bombers on stand-by alert.
>
>
> .. and you really don't want to know what happened along the German-German
> border or along the iron curtain during these years or when a submarine
> from the UdSSR was spottet.

We'll wait for the movie.

Martin Hotze

February 21st 04, 03:18 PM

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:10:53 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

>> who are the "Russkies"?
>
>Um, the Russians? From the land of Rus.
>

like the Krauts etc.?
Russkies is a bad wording IMNSHO.

>> besides ... just take enough money to one of the new countries developed
>> out of the former Soviet Union. There are enough people with enough
>> knowledge waiting too long for their salaries.
>
>And do what with it?

heck. come with a case of money and buy such a damn nuke. no need for using
airplanes for attacks.

#m

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

Big John

February 21st 04, 04:08 PM

Tom

One I was associated with.

Air Defense Fighter on alert loaded with nuclear rockets.

Change of crew and on new preflight in alert hanger found a 30 Cal
size bullet which had been fired up tail pipe into turbine wheel.

Investigation never did find where it came from.

We started keeping the hanger doors closed after 'cocking' birds until
they were scrambled, as a precauation.

Big John

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 03:13:50 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" >
wrote:

-----clip----
>
>And those are just _our_ foul-ups.
>
>

Jay Honeck

February 21st 04, 04:50 PM

> >> who are the "Russkies"?
> >
> >Um, the Russians? From the land of Rus.
>
> like the Krauts etc.?
> Russkies is a bad wording IMNSHO.

Wow. Political correctness from a foreigner?

I thought that was primarily an American realm. I guess the cancer has
metastasized....

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Big John

February 21st 04, 04:55 PM

Doug

I led a flight of four on a 20 KT tower shot in Nevada. Object was to
give visual training to people that might be involved with weapons in
war time.

I was on 100% oxy and could smell ozone (from radiation going through
the oxy system) when device went off underneath us. We were at 20K and
the cloud came boiling up beside us with the lavender electrical glow
washing in and out of the clouds as they rolled, making a lasting
impression on me. I don't ever want to see a nuc war. Ever, Ever,
Ever.

No one will win, not even mankind.

Big John

On 21 Feb 2004 04:07:27 GMT, Doug Carter > wrote:

>On 2004-02-21, Big John > wrote:
>
>> Glad the MAD has been put to bed.
>
>Glad it worked.

Martin Hotze

February 21st 04, 06:40 PM

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:50:26 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

>> Russkies is a bad wording IMNSHO.
>
>Wow. Political correctness from a foreigner?

We have a similar word in our language expressing just the same in the same
direction.

>I thought that was primarily an American realm.

you are not alone ...

>I guess the cancer has
>metastasized....

yes (but not the way you might think)

>:-(

true.

#m

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

Jay Honeck

February 21st 04, 08:32 PM

> We have a similar word in our language expressing just the same in the
same
> direction.

In American English, "Russkies" was not derogatory. I believe the term was
coined when we were allied with them in World War II.

Of course, that pre-dates me a bit, so I could be wrong.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

David Reinhart

February 23rd 04, 11:14 PM

Kerry and Edwards have both already requested Secret Service protection. Kerry
already has it, Edwards either does nor shortly will.

I asked AOPA if this meant for TFRs. For now they are saying "no" and they don't
even know if the Democratic candidate will generate TFRs after the convention. Aso
somebody else pointed out, there's pretty much guaranteed to be a TFR in place for
the convention itself. The SS even wants to shut down one of Boston's two major
commuter train terminals (North Station) and the Expressway because of their
proximity to the Fleet Center where the convention will be held.

Dave Reinhart

Dave S wrote:

> I was wondering at what point secret service kicked in for potential
> candidates.. wouldnt that be the epitome of irony...
>
> A no fly zone at Osh.. just like the no fly zone at FFA...
>
> Dave
>
> G.R. Patterson III wrote:
> >
> > Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> >>He was interviewed yesterday in currently-frozen OSH, saying that he was
> >>working hard to arrange for his campaign to be there during the fly-in.
> >
> >
> > About the worst thing Bush could do to Kerry at that point would be to set it
> > up so that Kerry gets TFRs while he's campaigning.
> >
> > George Patterson
> > A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
> > you look forward to the trip.