Flagged for abuse?

[[email protected]]

There was a posting yesterday by a member of the Soaring Association of Canada (SAC) announcing that the office condo had finally been sold resulting in additional funds available to the association. It had been for sale for a couple of years so we're all relieved that a buyer has been found. However, the message is gone and it appears to have been "flagged for abuse." How is posting that on rec.aviation.soaring an abuse and who has the power to flag it for removal?

[Mike C]

On Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:06:34 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> There was a posting yesterday by a member of the Soaring Association of Canada (SAC) announcing that the office condo had finally been sold resulting in additional funds available to the association. It had been for sale for a couple of years so we're all relieved that a buyer has been found. However, the message is gone and it appears to have been "flagged for abuse." How is posting that on rec.aviation.soaring an abuse and who has the power to flag it for removal?

Don't know who flagged it, but there was no indication it was soaring related. I wondered why it was posted as well, as it appeared to be a misplaced message about a real estate deal that finally went through. Who knew SAC was a soaring society?

Mike

[Ralph Jones[_3_]]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:14:14 -0800 (PST), Mike C >
wrote:
[snip]

> Who knew SAC was a soaring society?
>
A B-52 pilot after all eight engines quit?

[Werner Schmidt]

Hello , you wrote at 01-26-2013 19:06

> How is posting that on rec.aviation.soaring an abuse and who has the power to flag it for removal?

ask someone at google and quit reading / posting via google groups. Use
an appropriate newsreader and access via a newsserver - there are a lot
of them free available / accessable.

regards
Werner

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:29:40 PM UTC-5, Werner Schmidt wrote:
>
> ask someone at google and quit reading / posting via google groups. Use
> an appropriate newsreader and access via a newsserver - there are a lot
> of them free available / accessable.
>>
> regards
>
> Werner

That less than helpful reply makes no sense to me. How does the way I access rec.aviation.soaring have anything to do with the removal of someone else's posting to the newsgroup?

.... and Mike. I guess you and whoever is in charge missed the details such as the following which was part of the original post (mirrored on a club site so I was able to find it) ...

"It is assumed this new cash will be used to support soaring competitions in Canada in the coming years, starting with the Nats at Gatineau."

[Werner Schmidt]

Hello , you wrote at 01-26-2013 20:53

>> ask someone at google and quit reading / posting via google
>> groups. Use an appropriate newsreader and access via a newsserver -
>> there are a lot of them free available / accessable.
>
> That less than helpful reply makes no sense to me. How does the way
> I access rec.aviation.soaring have anything to do with the removal
> of someone else's posting to the newsgroup?

newsgroups are mirrored to a lot of newsservers all around the world.
Using google as your accesss to the usenet is not the best choice for
several reasons.

In this case, for example, google groops doesn't show a posting any
more. But if you use another server like news.eternalseptember.org for
example (the server I use), the posting is still there :-)

Google !=internet, and usenet is far more than just google groups.

If google decides to remove a posting it is removed just from google
groups. Not from the usenet. There is no way to remove a posting from
all the usenet. The user who posted a message may send a cancel-message
afterwards and most (but by far not all) newsserver will delete the
posting ...

To at last answer your question "who has the power to flag it for
removal?" more exactly:

*No one has the power to remove any posting from usenet!*

But, of course, some google-employee (or script, or bot, or somewhat
else) may have the power to remove a posting from google groups.

regards
Werner

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:53:07 -0800, stephen.szikora wrote:

> That less than helpful reply makes no sense to me. How does the way I
> access rec.aviation.soaring have anything to do with the removal of
> someone else's posting to the newsgroup?
>
If you're read the RFC you'd know that the NNTP protocol only permits a
posted message to be deleted by the original poster and that such removal
is not guaranteed. As it happens, the original message is still visible
(to me at least) via a newsreader.

None of the above applies to Google Groups which has its own rules about
posting and removal of posts. There is allegedly a 1:1 correspondence
between messages in the NNTP servers and those in Google group of the
same name: they are said to be synchronised but this is not necessarily
the case in the Real World (TM).


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[mike]

On Saturday, January 26, 2013 12:53:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:29:40 PM UTC-5, Werner Schmidt wrote:
>
> >
>
> > ask someone at google and quit reading / posting via google groups. Use
>
> > an appropriate newsreader and access via a newsserver - there are a lot
>
> > of them free available / accessable.
>
> >>
>
> > regards
>
> >
>
> > Werner
>
>
>
> That less than helpful reply makes no sense to me. How does the way I access rec.aviation.soaring have anything to do with the removal of someone else's posting to the newsgroup?
>
>
>
> ... and Mike. I guess you and whoever is in charge missed the details such as the following which was part of the original post (mirrored on a club site so I was able to find it) ...
>
>
>
> "It is assumed this new cash will be used to support soaring competitions in Canada in the coming years, starting with the Nats at Gatineau."

Werner,

I am in no way in charge, but did not notice it as part of the original post.

Just responding as to why the post may have been flagged.

Mike

[Werner Schmidt]

Hello mike, you wrote at 01-26-2013 22:54

> I am in no way in charge, but did not notice it as part of the original post.

sorry, now I'm al little confused - *what* didn't you notice as part of
the (which?) original post?

> Just responding as to why the post may have been flagged.

It has been flagged 'cause someone or something at google's thought or
computed it had to. Therefore my hint to not use google groups as access
to the usenet. It's crappy, even more than my english ;-)

regards
Werner

[mike]

On Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:45:27 PM UTC-7, Werner Schmidt wrote:
> Hello mike, you wrote at 01-26-2013 22:54
>
>
>
> > I am in no way in charge, but did not notice it as part of the original post.
>
>
>
> sorry, now I'm al little confused - *what* didn't you notice as part of
>
> the (which?) original post?
>
>
>
> > Just responding as to why the post may have been flagged.
>
>
>
> It has been flagged 'cause someone or something at google's thought or
>
> computed it had to. Therefore my hint to not use google groups as access
>
> to the usenet. It's crappy, even more than my english ;-)
>
>
>
> regards
>
> Werner

Your English seems fine Werner. I get your point.

kind regards,

Mike

[Ramy]

I completely disagree. I used various newsreaders in the past and found google group to be the best tool to follow RAS. Too many advantages to list.
One of them is that spams are removed. In this example it may have been by mistake but normally it seem to work well. And if I recall correct, it is removed if enough viewers flagged it as spam, which is probably what happened. So I recommend to continue using google group. You can set it so you can see which posts are new since you last viewed it. And you don't need to download the messages to read them as is often the case with newsreaders.

Ramy

[Ramy]

Forgot to mention that with google group you can follow RAS on any device you have without having to install newsreader and apps on each machine, yet you will be able to pick up from where you left on another device, just as I am doing right now replying from my Ipad. As I said, too many advantages to list.

Ramy

[Ralph Jones[_3_]]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:53:07 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

[snip]
>
>That less than helpful reply makes no sense to me. How does the way I access rec.aviation.soaring have anything to do with the removal of someone else's posting to the newsgroup?
>
Seems clear enough to me: Your server removed the post. Mine didn't.

rj

[Ramy]

On Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:06:34 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> There was a posting yesterday by a member of the Soaring Association of Canada (SAC) announcing that the office condo had finally been sold resulting in additional funds available to the association. It had been for sale for a couple of years so we're all relieved that a buyer has been found. However, the message is gone and it appears to have been "flagged for abuse." How is posting that on rec.aviation.soaring an abuse and who has the power to flag it for removal?

Some more clarification on the subject:
Google does not remove the posts. It only hides them since readers flagged them as abuse. You can still click on it and read the post. This is a feature, not an issue.
I don't know why some people keep bashing google group. It is the best interface to RAS IMHO.

Ramy

[[email protected]]

The SAC discussion forums have been down for more than a week now (somebody working on it?). My guess is that since they are down, someone wanted to let the SAC members know about the condo sale. Abuse? Gliders pilots? Nah.

mas

[Nick Olson[_3_]]

At 12:26 01 February 2013, wrote:
>The SAC discussion forums have been down for more than a week now
(somebody
>working on it?). My guess is that since they are down, someone wanted to
>let the SAC members know about the condo sale. Abuse? Gliders pilots?
Nah.
>
>mas
>
>

H'mm there was one very vocal poster on the SAC (Soaring Association of
Canada - for our isolationist American friends that know nothing about
anything that doesn't happen in their own backyard) Roundtable disscusion
forum - there has been concern I believe in how SAC is run/spends its
funds/suports soaring by some members for a number of years- coincidence
that thier forums are down?

[Jock Proudfoot]

At 12:26 01 February 2013, wrote:

>The SAC discussion forums have been down for more than a week now
(somebody working on it?). My guess is that since they are down,
someone wanted to let the SAC members know about the condo sale. Abuse?
Gliders pilots? Nah.
mas>

<<< The roundtable is down once again. A new roundtable has been built and
is undergoing testing. More information will be sent out soon concerning
the details of the new roundtable.
Sorry for the confusion, it was thought the current roundtable would remain
stable until the transition.
If there is a status change I will update this notice as soon as able.
Thanks, John Mulder >>>

[[email protected]]

On Friday, February 1, 2013 8:04:12 AM UTC-5, Nick Olson wrote:
> At 12:26 01 February 2013, wrote:
>
> >The SAC discussion forums have been down for more than a week now
>
> (somebody
>
> >working on it?). My guess is that since they are down, someone wanted to
>
> >let the SAC members know about the condo sale. Abuse? Gliders pilots?
>
> Nah.


>
> >
>
> >mas
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> H'mm there was one very vocal poster on the SAC (Soaring Association of
>
> Canada - for our isolationist American friends that know nothing about
>
> anything that doesn't happen in their own backyard) Roundtable disscusion
>
> forum - there has been concern I believe in how SAC is run/spends its
>
> funds/suports soaring by some members for a number of years- coincidence
>
> that thier forums are down?


The technical failure was coincidental. I am a moderator of it, it just died on a server we no longer have control of.

I created a new forum for Canadians and others: http://boblepp.com/smf

I hope it gets a bit of traction. I know of no other alternative up and running.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, January 26, 2013 1:06:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> There was a posting yesterday by a member of the Soaring Association of Canada (SAC) announcing that the office condo had finally been sold resulting in additional funds available to the association. It had been for sale for a couple of years so we're all relieved that a buyer has been found. However, the message is gone and it appears to have been "flagged for abuse." How is posting that on rec.aviation.soaring an abuse and who has the power to flag it for removal?

[[email protected]]

I just found out how the original SAC Condo sale post had its demise..... A Canadian pilot used the abuse flag, he pressed the button but at least emailed the original poster suggesting that airing Canadian laundry in public was inappropriate. What that person failed to note was that the Canadian laundry has been dirty for years and no manner of quiet discussion has succeeded in removing layers of secrecy. The web is stale since not even the Association uses it to communicate to members. They do not spend one penny (a penny now dropped by the Canadian Mint BTW)... they do not spend one nickel on either www.sac.ca nor any forum anywhere. They set out to keep the membership in the dark, excepting only a 4 times per year mailed hard copy journal. An SSA member can imagine how he/she would feel if the SSA web site was never updated to show current news and current issues.

I find this Google Groups abuse process to be a little too easy to invoke. Does this mean I can 'hide' as many posts as I want with one click? If so, I have lost some respect for Google. I hope they at least have a real person checking for abuse of the abuse process. I stopped using a news reader years ago. Maybe I need to go back to one, what a shame.