Flight with door removed

[Jay Smith]

Any suggestions on where I can find the inflight limitations with the
door removed, for any aircraft?

[Roy Epperson]

How about the manufacturer....

"Jay Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Any suggestions on where I can find the inflight limitations with the
> door removed, for any aircraft?
>

[C J Campbell]

If there is no provision for flight with the door removed in your POH, you
probably need an STC or FSDO field approval. Shouldn't be too hard to get.

[Dennis O'Connor]

Have you flown an aircraft with the door off, before this?

If not, then try popping the door latch while on final to see what you
think... You may change your mind about this...
denny
"Jay Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Any suggestions on where I can find the inflight limitations with the
> door removed, for any aircraft?
>

[Jay Smith]

Dennis O'Connor wrote:
> Have you flown an aircraft with the door off, before this?

Yes. Skydiving operations. Cherokee Six (rear and baggage doors removed)
and Cessna 180 (right cabin door removed), Cessna 182 (right cabin door
removed).
I do not recall what the limitations are, so I was hoping there was a
website where they could be found. I know there are some oil canning
issues in flight with the door(s) removed on some aircraft.

[Ron Natalie]

"Jay Smith" > wrote in message ...

> I do not recall what the limitations are, so I was hoping there was a
> website where they could be found. I know there are some oil canning
> issues in flight with the door(s) removed on some aircraft.

The limitations are whatever the authority you have to remove the door is.
As pointed out, it must be supported by the original operating limitations, or
through an STC or special approval.

The fact that certain jump zones operate illegally is not surprising...a crash here
in 1975 was attributed to bogus W&B info from unauthorized skydiving mods
to a Queen Air including seat and door removal.

[Maule Driver]

POH for the Maule spells it out. Any single door can be removed with IAS
limitations.

"Jay Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Any suggestions on where I can find the inflight limitations with the
> door removed, for any aircraft?
>

[Dale]

In article >,
"Ron Natalie" > wrote:


> The fact that certain jump zones operate illegally is not surprising...a
> crash here
> in 1975 was attributed to bogus W&B info from unauthorized skydiving mods
> to a Queen Air including seat and door removal.

Geez, that was almost 30 years ago...you still make assumptions on
something that happened that long ago? Skydiving, like ANY aviation
operation, has it's bad eggs but I'm confident that you would find the
vast majority operate legal, safe airplanes.

You sure it was a Queen Air. I can't find the accident in the NTSB
database. I fly jumpers and I like to see what has caught other pilots
so that it doesn't catch me.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[REMOVE TO REPLY.pdb]

Jay:

See: FAA AC 105-2C paragraph 23

http://www1.faa.gov/avr/AFS/ac105-2c.txt

This covers the general requirements to remove a door and
the appendix contains a list of aircraft approved to do so.

Pete Brown

Jay Smith wrote:
> Any suggestions on where I can find the inflight limitations with the
> door removed, for any aircraft?
>

--

Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/

[Dennis O'Connor]

I used to fly my 57 Lane with the right door off for photo runs... Cold and
really noisy... I miss that airplane...

I hauled jumpers in a 180... I do not miss that!

denny

"Jay Smith" > wrote in message I know there are some oil
canning
> issues in flight with the door(s) removed on some aircraft.
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

You can cheat the regulators, but you can't cheat the laws of physics...

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message .a crash here
> in 1975 was attributed to bogus W&B info from unauthorized skydiving mods
> to a Queen Air including seat and door removal.
>

[Jay Smith]

REMOVE TO REPLY.pdb wrote:
> See: FAA AC 105-2C paragraph 23
> http://www1.faa.gov/avr/AFS/ac105-2c.txt
> This covers the general requirements to remove a door and the appendix
> contains a list of aircraft approved to do so.
> Pete Brown

Thanks, Pete. That's pretty much what I was looking for.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Dale wrote:
>
> Geez, that was almost 30 years ago...

No, it wasn't. It was about five years back, IIRC.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[Dale]

In article >,
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:

> Dale wrote:
> >
> > Geez, that was almost 30 years ago...
>
> No, it wasn't. It was about five years back, IIRC.
>

Okay, I'm in Alaska so it's a different time zone..maybe that's it. He
said 1975, up here that's closer to 30 years than 5 years. <G>

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Nigel T Peart]

Gee wizz Dale, you fly jumpers door off in Alaska? Thats cold and maybe
brave!
I jump-pilot in South Africa, and we've got in-flight doors, and we think
it's cold!
Nigel

>
> Okay, I'm in Alaska so it's a different time zone..maybe that's it. He
> said 1975, up here that's closer to 30 years than 5 years. <G>
>
> --
> Dale L. Falk
>
> There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
> as simply messing around with airplanes.
>
> http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Dale]

In article >,
"Nigel T Peart" > wrote:

> Gee wizz Dale, you fly jumpers door off in Alaska? Thats cold and maybe
> brave!
> I jump-pilot in South Africa, and we've got in-flight doors, and we think
> it's cold!
> Nigel

In-flight door.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[G.R. Patterson III]

Dale wrote:
>
> Okay, I'm in Alaska so it's a different time zone..maybe that's it. He
> said 1975, up here that's closer to 30 years than 5 years. <G>

I expect that's a typo - probably 1995. A Queen Air went into a house down near
Ron about five years ago carrying jumpers. The news had something about W&B, the
number of people on board (something like 18 jumpers), and the fact that it wasn't
supposed to be flying without a door.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[Ron Natalie]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Dale wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I'm in Alaska so it's a different time zone..maybe that's it. He
> > said 1975, up here that's closer to 30 years than 5 years. <G>
>
> I expect that's a typo - probably 1995. A Queen Air went into a house down near
> Ron about five years ago carrying jumpers.

George is right. 1995. It was a typo. I wasn't even living in Virginia in '75.

[Dale]

In article >,
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:


> I expect that's a typo - probably 1995. A Queen Air went into a house down
> near
> Ron about five years ago carrying jumpers. The news had something about W&B,
> the
> number of people on board (something like 18 jumpers), and the fact that it
> wasn't
> supposed to be flying without a door.


Thought maybe so...I remember the one in '95.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Dennis O'Connor]

A King Air went in a year, or so, ago with jumpers... The ship was to my
home field, KHYX, just a couple of weeks prior and I chatted with the
owner/pilot...
Go flying when you can, say you love your wife and kids when you see them,
ya never know - life can be short...
denny

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message > George is right. 1995.
It was a typo. I wasn't even living in Virginia in '75.
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

Ahh jeez, I accidently hit send while trying to edit... The king air crash
was 1999 at Marine City, here in Michigan, not a year or so ago... Time
flies after you lose your mind...
denny
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Dale wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I'm in Alaska so it's a different time zone..maybe that's it. He
> > said 1975, up here that's closer to 30 years than 5 years. <G>
>
> I expect that's a typo - probably 1995. A Queen Air went into a house down
near
> Ron about five years ago carrying jumpers. The news had something about
W&B, the
> number of people on board (something like 18 jumpers), and the fact that
it wasn't
> supposed to be flying without a door.
>
> George Patterson
> A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way
that
> you look forward to the trip.

[Ron Natalie]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message ...
> A King Air went in a year, or so, ago with jumpers... The ship was to my
> home field, KHYX, just a couple of weeks prior and I chatted with the
> owner/pilot...

The incident I was referring to was in 95 at West Point, VA. You can find it
in the NTSB database.

It's amazing the number of Queen Air jump plane crashes that came up when I
was searching for it.

[Tom|420]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> "Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message ...
>
>>A King Air went in a year, or so, ago with jumpers... The ship was to my
>>home field, KHYX, just a couple of weeks prior and I chatted with the
>>owner/pilot...
>
>
> The incident I was referring to was in 95 at West Point, VA. You can find it
> in the NTSB database.
>
> It's amazing the number of Queen Air jump plane crashes that came up when I
> was searching for it.
>

At least they were in position to jump out before crashing :)

[Ron Natalie]

"Tom|420" > wrote in message . ..
>
> At least they were in position to jump out before crashing :)

Actually one of the people in this group came up with the interesting statistic
that more skydivers die in jump plane crashes than do in incidents after they
leave the aircraft.

[SelwayKid]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message >...
> Dale wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I'm in Alaska so it's a different time zone..maybe that's it. He
> > said 1975, up here that's closer to 30 years than 5 years. <G>
>
> I expect that's a typo - probably 1995. A Queen Air went into a house down near
> Ron about five years ago carrying jumpers. The news had something about W&B, the
> number of people on board (something like 18 jumpers), and the fact that it wasn't
> supposed to be flying without a door.

George
And we all know how accurate the news media is? I've got a thousand
plus hours in a Beech Queen Air and can't even begin to imagine
stuffing 18 pygmies without parachutes in it! Even a Twin Otter gets
cramped with 18 and that isn't without stacking them one on top of
another. I did a "floater" jump that has been used for many posters
and there were 13 jumpers outside a Twin Beech near Parris, CA back
about 1985. That has nearly the same interior dimensions as the B-80
and it was stuffed full with jumpers. W&B was not the issue....it was
pure volume of bodies.
Ol Shy & Bashful
>
> George Patterson
> A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
> you look forward to the trip.