What Should I Buy...If Anything?

[[email protected]]

I’ve been out of it for two years and intend to be flying again this spring in my ASW 24. Practice and FAI and/or Sports Class competition.

Currently I have an LNAV and GPS 20 with a Compaq 1550 (in the original Cambridge mounting cradle) running GN II, a Winter mechanical backup vario, and a Garmin handheld that made a fine backup flight recorder until outlawed and still works well for tracking in a thermal (poor man's thermal assistant). I also have several backup Compaq 1500s.

My primary goal is contest flying. My primary constraint is two daughters in expensive colleges. :) So my question is: what combination of new vario(s), flight computer(s), PDA/PNA and software should I look at considering performance, ease of us (I set up SYM years ago but wasn’t impressed with user friendliness compared with GNII), price, the need for two flight recorders, reliability, and what my current stuff is worth?

I realize this is a complicated question so I’m looking for complicated answers: i.e., no “the Butterfly is the best vario plus whatever else you want to add” or “ClearNav is worth whatever you have to pay for it”. I’m 61. Things I buy for soaring are no longer “investments”. :) And although I love competition soaring, I have to consider price/performance the way I do when buying a car or a new PC. Sorry, it’s the real world.

I have a preference for made in America only because getting something serviced quickly is important--especially when an expensive system craps out during a contest (been there multiple times).

I’d also like to split the two varios so they’re not both dependent on a common TE source in the multi-probe. But I’ve flown for decades without spearing a bird with it so electronic TE is a “nice to have” only.

Frankly, I’m not sure I need to do anything. The LNAV and Winter work fine, I’ve never felt constrained by GNII, and I can probably borrow a backup flight recorder for contests. But as long as it’s winter, I just thought I’d ask.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 “JB”
U.S.A.

[Tony[_5_]]

if i was you i wouldn't buy anything. sounds like you're happy with your setup and if it was good enough 2 years ago for contest flying it will be good enough this year. best of luck on getting the girls out of college and on their own. then it will be time for new glider :)

[Charlie Papa[_2_]]

On Monday, February 11, 2013 6:35:22 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> if i was you i wouldn't buy anything. sounds like you're happy with your setup and if it was good enough 2 years ago for contest flying it will be good enough this year. best of luck on getting the girls out of college and on their own. then it will be time for new glider :)

Until they get married!

And then again until they get divorced :-(

Been there...

[[email protected]]

On Monday, February 11, 2013 6:14:23 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> I’ve been out of it for two years and intend to be flying again this spring in my ASW 24. Practice and FAI and/or Sports Class competition. Currently I have an LNAV and GPS 20 with a Compaq 1550 (in the original Cambridge mounting cradle) running GN II, a Winter mechanical backup vario, and a Garmin handheld that made a fine backup flight recorder until outlawed and still works well for tracking in a thermal (poor man's thermal assistant). I also have several backup Compaq 1500s. My primary goal is contest flying. My primary constraint is two daughters in expensive colleges. :) So my question is: what combination of new vario(s), flight computer(s), PDA/PNA and software should I look at considering performance, ease of us (I set up SYM years ago but wasn’t impressed with user friendliness compared with GNII), price, the need for two flight recorders, reliability, and what my current stuff is worth? I realize this is a complicated question so I’m looking for complicated answers: i.e., no “the Butterfly is the best vario plus whatever else you want to add” or “ClearNav is worth whatever you have to pay for it”. I’m 61. Things I buy for soaring are no longer “investments”. :) And although I love competition soaring, I have to consider price/performance the way I do when buying a car or a new PC. Sorry, it’s the real world. I have a preference for made in America only because getting something serviced quickly is important--especially when an expensive system craps out during a contest (been there multiple times). I’d also like to split the two varios so they’re not both dependent on a common TE source in the multi-probe. But I’ve flown for decades without spearing a bird with it so electronic TE is a “nice to have” only. Frankly, I’m not sure I need to do anything. The LNAV and Winter work fine, I’ve never felt constrained by GNII, and I can probably borrow a backup flight recorder for contests. But as long as it’s winter, I just thought I’d ask. Chip Bearden ASW 24 “JB” U.S.A.

What you have is good enough to win the nationals.
UH

[JohnDeRosa]

Well, you definitely need a ClearNav, and a Butterfly and, heck, a new
ship to go around it. Why not? You only live twice.....

OK back to reality. I flew for years with GNII, IPaq and a Cambridge
302. Kind of like what you have now. Do you need to change just
because of electro-envy? Yep, lots of new gadgets out there.

The question is, what is deficient in your system that you want to
fix? You have a flight recorder in the Cambridge GPS 20 right? You
have navigation with GNII, right? You have an audio vario in the
Cambridge cluster right?

What might you be missing that would definitely make your soaring
better?

Maybe some upgrade of GNII? What doesn't it have? Thermal
assistant? Maybe better competition optimization? Color? SeeYou
Mobile has evolved since you last used it so maybe it is better now
but any of the new stuff is more complicated than GNII. Brighter
screen? The 1500's are pretty old tech but about as good as you can
get in bright sunlight.

Some suggestions;

- The Oudie is pretty nice. You could buy the lite one on the cheap
and install XCSoar or LK8000 for free. Or a used Oudie I.
- There is the Colibri II which is a flight recorder and navigation,
thermal assistant, etc, all in a very nice small package.
- FLARM - nice safety enhancement if you are around lots of other
gliders.

Or just save up for newer batteries or replacing your old parachute.

Others will have better reasoned thoughts.

- John

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

What you should buy is tows and entry fees. See ya at the airport.

Evan / T8

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, February 11, 2013 6:14:23 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> My primary goal is contest flying.
> My primary constraint is two daughters in expensive colleges. :)

First, explain to them how much better education they'll get from a
work-study internship program. Then contact me and I'll help you
arrange a new ship.

We're looking forward to having you back !
Come on down to the Seniors perhaps ?
See ya, Dave "YO electric"

[[email protected]]

Welcome back, Chip.
As you've figured out, the clearnav is a step up from the GNII. A big advantage: no more pda to reboot, batteries to fail, software to reload, etc. Huge screen, updated software to the latest US contest rules, very intuitive user interface, easy to read in sunlight, actively supported by US based company. A necessity? No. A convenience? Yes. A $3k, er, "investment" as our Dear Leader likes to say? You betcha.
I find that the 302 vario -- quite a few used now -- is a noticeable improvement over the L nav, and the CN vario a noticeable improvement over that. Same questions and answers.
The other modern equipment is undoubtedly good too, this is just mine.
John Cochrane

[[email protected]]

If powerflarm ever gets around to getting the flight recorder approved I imagine that it might make a good backup flight recorder as well as providing the collision avoidance function.

[[email protected]]

Welcome back Chip.

If you want to economize I'd recommend a used 302 and an Oudie. The Oudie UI has been improved since the original and sunlight readability is awesome - which anyone over 45 will appreciate. If you can remember your SYM registration you can get an Oudie lite for $375 and a used 302 is probably a decent value. As for a 2nd logger I'd recommend a PowerFlarm which you can MUX with the 302 output and feed to the Oudie for collision warnings. Overall it's lot cheaper than a CN + vario or an LX9000 + V5 or an Ultimate pus vario of your choice - all fine systems, but expect to pay $3-5 grand versus $1..5-2 - not counting the PowerFlarm.

The other setup I've seen a lot is an LX V7 plus PowerFlarm feeding an Oudie and a Colibri II as a backup nav system, logger and emergency vario. Pretty cost-effective sate of the art system that is fully redundant.

Not 100% American - but I've always had great service, plus if you have a decent backup system you can tolerate a day or two if something craps out.

I won't describe my new panel out of fear of being mocked.

Andy
9B

[John Dezzutti[_3_]]

I have always operated under the assumption that the more I spend the
better I will do. That's why I got a 27 and why I just spent a small
fortune on a completely new panel! Meanwhile I don't seem to be moving up
the score sheet! Maybe spending the money on tows would have been smarter!

[rk]

On Tuesday, February 12, 2013 2:28:47 PM UTC+2, John Dezzutti wrote:
> I have always operated under the assumption that the more I spend the
>
> better I will do. That's why I got a 27 and why I just spent a small
>
> fortune on a completely new panel! Meanwhile I don't seem to be moving up
>
> the score sheet! Maybe spending the money on tows would have been smarter!

Question everyone should ask oneself is do you enjoy flying more with modern instruments? I for one do, though my glider is old. Probably that doesn't correlate with my position at score sheet, but at least I'm having fun.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:10:44 -0800, JohnDeRosa wrote:

> Some suggestions;
>
> - The Oudie is pretty nice. You could buy the lite one on the cheap and
> install XCSoar or LK8000 for free. Or a used Oudie I.
> - There is the Colibri II which is a flight recorder and navigation,
> thermal assistant, etc, all in a very nice small package.
>
Don't forget that both LK8000 and XCSoar are free to download and both
have versions that run on a standard Windows PC, so you can play with
them both and see if you like their look and feel before buying any
hardware to run them.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[noel.wade]

Just a point of reference, following on with Martin's comments:

I took 4th place in the US Std Class Nationals last year (my first
nats) with a Vertica PNA running LK8000, and an EW MicroRecorder as
the GPS source for the PNA (and as my main logger). I had a
PowerFLARM and an SNAV; but the PF was just for anti-collision (not
plumbed into anything else), and I don't really use the SNAV except to
cross-check my altimeter and other varios (Tasman and a B400).

This is not me trying to crow about my skills - I'm just a Joe-blow
pilot with only about 500 hours in gliders and 6 Regionals under my
belt; so its not like I was bringing decades of wisdom to the cockpit
(other than all the information I've been vacuuming up from
experienced competitors the last few years... again with thanks to
their generosity and patience)!

This is me saying that the free glide software and inexpensive devices
out there can do a perfectly good job of helping you get around the
course quickly, once you set them up correctly!

--Noel


On Feb 12, 12:29*pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
>
> Don't forget that both LK8000 and XCSoar are free to download and both
> have versions that run on a standard Windows PC, so you can play with
> them both and see if you like their look and feel before buying any
> hardware to run them.
>

[Dave Nadler]

On Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:11:33 PM UTC-5, noel.wade wrote:
> Just a point of reference, following on with Martin's comments:
> I took 4th place in the US Std Class Nationals last year...

Places 1 and 2 were flying with ILEC SN10 ;-)
Good instruments do help in many ways, including
minimizing heads-down time...

See ya, Dave

[noel.wade]

....and it had NOTHING to do them being very good veteran contest
pilots who just happen to be current / former National champs... ;-)

--Noel

On Feb 12, 2:21*pm, Dave Nadler > wrote:
>
> Places 1 and 2 were flying with ILEC SN10 ;-)
> Good instruments do help in many ways, including
> minimizing heads-down time...
>
> See ya, Dave

[Dave Nadler]

On Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:01:35 PM UTC-5, noel.wade wrote:
> ...and it had NOTHING to do them being very good veteran contest
> pilots who just happen to be current / former National champs... ;-)
>
> --Noel

Of course it did. But to the question posed in this thread:
One should ask what instruments top pilots choose and why.
See ya, Dave

[Dan Marotta]

What should you buy?

Buy me one of Dave's electric self-launchers!


"Dave Nadler" > wrote in message
...
> On Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:01:35 PM UTC-5, noel.wade wrote:
>> ...and it had NOTHING to do them being very good veteran contest
>> pilots who just happen to be current / former National champs... ;-)
>>
>> --Noel
>
> Of course it did. But to the question posed in this thread:
> One should ask what instruments top pilots choose and why.
> See ya, Dave