How do you interpret weather reports when considering a cross-country flight?

[Terry Pitts]

Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to do the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.

Here’s the first option I’ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/

Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro County Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the “one percent rule” I can’t release any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to land at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP before landing that I’m OK...

I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good thermal and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.

If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial idea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I’d be interested, but that's not really the purpose of this post.

I’d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning or something like that.

What are good links to places you use to check the weather?

How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to try a 50 km flight"?

Thanks in advance.

Terry

[Daniel Sazhin]

Terry,

I've found an excellent tool are the NAM Blipmaps:
http://www.drjack.info/BLIP/NAM/

If you can climb up to 5000ft agl and it is not particularly windy, you
would be able to safely attempt a silver distance. You can find the AGL
Hcrit, which says how high thermals go above the ground in the NAM info.

Also, regarding starting, you don't need to start that low. You can declare
a start and then you can start any altitude you want, so long as your
finish point is no greater than the 1% rule allows for. So if you can only
lose 1400ft, then if you go through your declared start at 6000ft MSL, you
must finish no lower than 4600ft MSL. However, that is probably a lot
easier than taking a very low tow.

Regards,
Daniel Sazhin

At 00:16 15 February 2013, Terry Pitts wrote:
>Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to
do
>=
>the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>
>Here=92s the first option I=92ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/
>
>Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro
>Cou=
>nty Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the =93one percent rule=94 I can=92t
>rel=
>ease any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to
land
>=
>at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP
>befo=
>re landing that I=92m OK...
>
>I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good
>thermal=
> and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.
>
>If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial
>i=
>dea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I=92d be interested, but
>that=
>'s not really the purpose of this post.
>
>I=92d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning
>o=
>r something like that.
>
>What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
>How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to
>tr=
>y a 50 km flight"?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Terry
>

[Daniel Sazhin]

Terry,

I've found an excellent tool are the NAM Blipmaps:
http://www.drjack.info/BLIP/NAM/

If you can climb up to 5000ft agl and it is not particularly windy, you
would be able to safely attempt a silver distance. You can find the AGL
Hcrit, which says how high thermals go above the ground in the NAM info.

Also, regarding starting, you don't need to start that low. You can declare
a start and then you can start any altitude you want, so long as your
finish point is no greater than the 1% rule allows for. So if you can only
lose 1400ft, then if you go through your declared start at 6000ft MSL, you
must finish no lower than 4600ft MSL. However, that is probably a lot
easier than taking a very low tow.

Regards,
Daniel Sazhin

At 00:16 15 February 2013, Terry Pitts wrote:
>Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to
do
>=
>the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>
>Here=92s the first option I=92ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/
>
>Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro
>Cou=
>nty Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the =93one percent rule=94 I can=92t
>rel=
>ease any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to
land
>=
>at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP
>befo=
>re landing that I=92m OK...
>
>I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good
>thermal=
> and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.
>
>If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial
>i=
>dea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I=92d be interested, but
>that=
>'s not really the purpose of this post.
>
>I=92d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning
>o=
>r something like that.
>
>What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
>How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to
>tr=
>y a 50 km flight"?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Terry
>

[Daniel Sazhin]

Terry,

I've found an excellent tool are the NAM Blipmaps:
http://www.drjack.info/BLIP/NAM/

If you can climb up to 5000ft agl and it is not particularly windy, you
would be able to safely attempt a silver distance. You can find the AGL
Hcrit, which says how high thermals go above the ground in the NAM info.

Also, regarding starting, you don't need to start that low. You can declare
a start and then you can start any altitude you want, so long as your
finish point is no greater than the 1% rule allows for. So if you can only
lose 1400ft, then if you go through your declared start at 6000ft MSL, you
must finish no lower than 4600ft MSL. However, that is probably a lot
easier than taking a very low tow.

Regards,
Daniel Sazhin

At 00:16 15 February 2013, Terry Pitts wrote:
>Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to
do
>=
>the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>
>Here=92s the first option I=92ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/
>
>Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro
>Cou=
>nty Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the =93one percent rule=94 I can=92t
>rel=
>ease any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to
land
>=
>at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP
>befo=
>re landing that I=92m OK...
>
>I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good
>thermal=
> and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.
>
>If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial
>i=
>dea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I=92d be interested, but
>that=
>'s not really the purpose of this post.
>
>I=92d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning
>o=
>r something like that.
>
>What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
>How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to
>tr=
>y a 50 km flight"?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Terry
>

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:16:45 PM UTC-6, Terry Pitts wrote:
> Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to do the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>
>
>
> Here’s the first option I’ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/
>
>
>
> Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro County Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the “one percent rule” I can’t release any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to land at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP before landing that I’m OK...
>
>
>
> I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good thermal and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.
>
>
>
> If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial idea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I’d be interested, but that's not really the purpose of this post.
>
>
>
> I’d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning or something like that.
>
>
>
> What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
>
>
> How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to try a 50 km flight"?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> Terry

Terry,
Unless you are attempting your Silver Distance in a Ka-8, you shouldn't be too concerned about making it around just a 50km round trip. Go for a turnpoint 30-40 mi away and come back home. That way the release altitude is not a factor. By the way, releasing at anything above 2,000' AGL should be considered bad form and only for sissies. If you can't climb up from that altitude, practice thermaling. Good luck!
Herb

[Andy Gough[_2_]]

On Feb 14, 7:16*pm, Terry Pitts > wrote:

>
> I’d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning or something like that.
>
> What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
> How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to try a 50 km flight"?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Terry


Hi Terry,

There are some very good weather tutorials on the SSA web site, you
can find them under News & Information/Weather/Tutorials or directly
through this link: http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=1787073016&show=blog&id=866.
The tutorials can be downloaded and printed. This is what you will see
on the Tutorials page:

Home > News & Information > Weather
Tutorials
Thermal Soaring Forecasts
Methodology
The Convective Boundary Layer
Thermodynamic diagrams
Download pdf files
Courtesy of Richard Kellerman

Western US special situations
Courtesy of Dan Gudgel

This excellent tutorial is kindly provided by Dan Gudgel.


Regarding your Silver C, you have the right idea, I would take a tow
to 1,200 ft, if the tow pilot drops you in lift you shouldn't have too
much trouble getting away.

Good luck and enjoy.

Andy Gough

[Jim[_30_]]

On Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:16:45 PM UTC-5, Terry Pitts wrote:
> Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to do the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>
>
>
> Here’s the first option I’ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/
>
>
>
> Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro County Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the “one percent rule” I can’t release any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to land at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP before landing that I’m OK...
>
>
>
> I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good thermal and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.
>
>
>
> If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial idea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I’d be interested, but that's not really the purpose of this post.
>
>
>
> I’d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning or something like that.
>
>
>
> What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
>
>
> How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to try a 50 km flight"?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> Terry

Terry, one tool I would begin to get familiar with is the interactive sounding tool at this site:

http://www-frd.fsl.noaa.gov/mab/soundings/java/

this is one of Richard Kellerman's most useful tools...you will need to find a nearby airport, preferably one that actually sends up a WX baloon in the morning to do a real sounding...this java app allows you to put in several hours e.g. 1700Z - 2100Z then you can look at how the model is forecasting the day to develop through the normal mixing process. This is a great tool but takes a little while to get the hang of if you are unfamiliar

I always look at the TAF for the day as well....it's aquick indicator to see if cus are in the forecast and what the winds will be....

Dr Jack is great too...previously mentioned

Good luck,

Jim Price

[Paul Cordell]

Wow, I can't believe no one has mentioned XC Skies. I dropped all the Old tools many years ago. In my opinion, nothing comes close to the ease of this Great WX tool.

http://www.xcskies.com

[[email protected]]

On Friday, February 15, 2013 10:06:58 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:16:45 PM UTC-6, Terry Pitts wrote:
>
> > Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to do the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Here’s the first option I’ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro County Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the “one percent rule” I can’t release any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to land at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP before landing that I’m OK...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good thermal and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial idea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I’d be interested, but that's not really the purpose of this post.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I’d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning or something like that.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to try a 50 km flight"?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Terry
>
>
>
> Terry,
>
> Unless you are attempting your Silver Distance in a Ka-8, you shouldn't be too concerned about making it around just a 50km round trip. Go for a turnpoint 30-40 mi away and come back home. That way the release altitude is not a factor. By the way, releasing at anything above 2,000' AGL should be considered bad form and only for sissies. If you can't climb up from that altitude, practice thermaling. Good luck!
>
> Herb

Knowing the fleet at Bermuda High, I suspect the plane will be a PW-5 or
SGS1-26. The round trip might be a bit of a challenge for a beginner!

Herb is right. Plan a round trip to a point 50km away. The 1% rule is
computed on the entire flight, so as long as you make it back you are allowed
1000m for the release altitude. You do have to fly a 50km leg for the
Silver distance.

There are lots of cross country and badge savvy people at Bermuda High.
They will have lots of good advice on how to make the flight and what
is the best direction for a beginner. E.g. the straight line from BH to BBP
crosses some tiger country, and the only airport in between (Wild Irish Rose)
isn't recommended for glider landings.

Matt

[[email protected]]

On Friday, February 15, 2013 2:21:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Friday, February 15, 2013 10:06:58 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:16:45 PM UTC-6, Terry Pitts wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to do the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Here’s the first option I’ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro County Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the “one percent rule” I can’t release any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to land at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP before landing that I’m OK...
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good thermal and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial idea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I’d be interested, but that's not really the purpose of this post.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I’d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning or something like that.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to try a 50 km flight"?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Terry
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Terry,
>
> >
>
> > Unless you are attempting your Silver Distance in a Ka-8, you shouldn't be too concerned about making it around just a 50km round trip. Go for a turnpoint 30-40 mi away and come back home. That way the release altitude is not a factor. By the way, releasing at anything above 2,000' AGL should be considered bad form and only for sissies. If you can't climb up from that altitude, practice thermaling. Good luck!
>
> >
>
> > Herb
>
>
>
> Knowing the fleet at Bermuda High, I suspect the plane will be a PW-5 or
>
> SGS1-26. The round trip might be a bit of a challenge for a beginner!
>
>
>
> Herb is right. Plan a round trip to a point 50km away. The 1% rule is
>
> computed on the entire flight, so as long as you make it back you are allowed
>
> 1000m for the release altitude. You do have to fly a 50km leg for the
>
> Silver distance.
>
>
>
> There are lots of cross country and badge savvy people at Bermuda High.
>
> They will have lots of good advice on how to make the flight and what
>
> is the best direction for a beginner. E.g. the straight line from BH to BBP
>
> crosses some tiger country, and the only airport in between (Wild Irish Rose)
>
> isn't recommended for glider landings.
>
>
>
> Matt

Sorry, I meant doing a round trip in a 1-26! The PW-5 should handle that fine.

[JS]

In agreement with Paul. There are dozens of weather resources, but XC Skies seems the best.
A lot of the old school weather forecasting is boring and hard to read, with the additional benefit of being pessimistic. It seems to me that you get nowhere in a glider, whether a 1-26 or an ASH26, if you're pessimistic.
Have fun, Terry! After the 50k, it just gets better.
Jim

On Friday, February 15, 2013 11:17:26 AM UTC-8, Paul Cordell wrote:
> Wow, I can't believe no one has mentioned XC Skies. I dropped all the Old tools many years ago. In my opinion, nothing comes close to the ease of this Great WX tool.
>
>
>
> http://www.xcskies.com

[Ramy]

On Friday, February 15, 2013 7:06:58 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:16:45 PM UTC-6, Terry Pitts wrote:
>
> > Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to do the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Here’s the first option I’ve looked at: http://www.nscale160.com/xc/
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Bermuda High (SC79, 550' msl) is 34 nautical miles west of the Marlboro County Jetport (KBBP, 147'msl). Using the “one percent rule” I can’t release any higher than 1390' agl at Bermuda High if I'm simply going to land at BBP. I understand if I use a logger and arrive high enough over BBP before landing that I’m OK...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I suppose I could release higher, descend below 1390' agl in a good thermal and then climb again and fly on. Hmmm.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If you look at the screen capture map on my website you'll see my initial idea. If you have any feedback on the route(s) I’d be interested, but that's not really the purpose of this post.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I’d like to learn more about weather forecasting/understanding/planning or something like that.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > What are good links to places you use to check the weather?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > How do you know from looking at the weather that "today's a great day to try a 50 km flight"?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Terry
>
>
>
> Terry,
>
> Unless you are attempting your Silver Distance in a Ka-8, you shouldn't be too concerned about making it around just a 50km round trip. Go for a turnpoint 30-40 mi away and come back home. That way the release altitude is not a factor. By the way, releasing at anything above 2,000' AGL should be considered bad form and only for sissies. If you can't climb up from that altitude, practice thermaling. Good luck!
>
> Herb

> By the way, releasing at anything above 2,000' AGL should be considered bad form and only for sissies. If you can't climb up from that altitude, practice thermaling.

I disagree! About half the places I fly, you often need around 6000 feet tow to get to the lift deep in the mountains. A 2000 feet tow will usually give you an extended sled ride in these areas no matter how well you can thermal, or you may be stuck low in the valley all day while your buddies flying 500km in the mountains. The attitude that releasing above 2000 feet is bad form is what kept (and still keeping) some soaring sites and pilots out of XC reach.

Ramy (who has no choice but to tow above 2000 feet at least half the time)

[K]

On Friday, February 15, 2013 8:06:58 AM UTC-7, wrote:
By the way, releasing at anything above 2,000' AGL should be considered bad form and only for sissies. If you can't climb up from that altitude, practice thermaling. Good luck!
>
> Herb
Herb,
I am with Ramy one this one (Is one of the places Williams?). You are going to have to put alot of pilots on your Sissie girl list. The height of the tow has more to do with the location and type of flight than skill or machizmo. In Northern UT we get hit with Lake Effect and the valleys turn on much later than the ridges. One can be a stud and pop off at 1300 AGL at 2PM but if you are trying to get somewhere and launch at noon with water you will tow to the ridges (3000+) or you will be taking alot of practice tows.

[Tony[_5_]]

the original poster is in South Carolina. 2000 feet should be plenty. I like all the forecasting tools mentioned. Best of luck on your silver distance, let us know how it goes!

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

Ah, the beauties of thread drift!

The OP - from the Bermuda High area of SC - wrote with a collection of
"relatively-newbie (to XC soaring) questions", including how he might "best
plan" for a Silver C distance flight.

Replies eventually included some from practitioners in the intermountain west
right on out to California...
- - - - - -

On 2/18/2013 12:58 AM, Ramy wrote:
> On Friday, February 15, 2013 7:06:58 AM UTC-8, wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:16:45 PM UTC-6, Terry Pitts wrote:
>>
>>> Spring is getting near. I want to learn cross-country flying. I want to
>>> do the 50 km flight for the Silver badge.
>>
<Snip>
>>> Terry

One reply (from the Illinois/midwest area of the country) included...

>>
>> Terry,
>>
<Snip>

By the way, releasing at anything above 2,000'
>> AGL should be considered bad form and only for sissies. If you can't
>> climb up from that altitude, practice thermaling. Good luck!
>>
>> Herb
>
So far so good as in the (limited) contexts of question & reply were, I'd
guess, adequately clear to all concerned.

Then thread drift (from California) appears...
- - - - - -
>> By the way, releasing at anything above 2,000' AGL should be considered
>> bad form and only for sissies. If you can't climb up from that altitude,
>> practice thermaling.
>
> I disagree! About half the places I fly, you often need around 6000 feet
> tow to get to the lift deep in the mountains. A 2000 feet tow will usually
> give you an extended sled ride in these areas no matter how well you can
> thermal, or you may be stuck low in the valley all day while your buddies
> flying 500km in the mountains. The attitude that releasing above 2000 feet
> is bad form is what kept (and still keeping) some soaring sites and pilots
> out of XC reach.
>
> Ramy (who has no choice but to tow above 2000 feet at least half the time)

At the risk of appearing critical (which I am not seeking to be), for any
readers who may be less than intimately familiar with the fairly vast size and
- in soaring terms - geographically-affected nuances in soarability in the
continental U.S.' lower 48 states, thread-drifting inputs from California
(Ramy) and Utah (Ken U.) appeared.

Having soared (way back when) for several years in the latter state, and
accumulated (way too many, sigh) decades' worth of reading-absorbing soaring
tales from the former, I've no quibble with the factual accuracy of statements
made by Ramy or (in another reply) Ken U.

Thread drift having already started, geographical nuance having become a part
of the "conversation", I'll join in!!!

When I moved to Colorado's Front Range ca. 1976 to make Boulder (CO) my home
base, being a relative newbie and an eager beaver, I was mentally in "sponge
mode". I'd moved there from the Heber City area of Utah, where - as it
happened - "the ridge" was only a few miles from the glider field, and - even
in a 1-26 - a person could routinely (XC) soar from 2,000' tows, taken early
in the morning. Boulder appeared - to my newbie eyes - to be even more ideal a
soaring venue than Heber had been, in that "the hills" began a mere 3 miles
from the field (though, with unlandable civilization between hills and
airport), and "the [miles of] hills" faced the rising sun. "Woo hoo!" thinks I.

In fact, "Woo hoo!" turned out to be the case...but - and here's my point to
any reader presently in "sponge mode" - I was early-on dismayed to learn from
the vast majority of regulars with whom I came into contact then at the
Boulder airport, that "a high tow back into the hills" was necessary before
one could do any "real XC" from Boulder. "Bummer," thinks cash-poor/cheap me.
Happily I was cheap enough to prove - in this case, disprove - to myself the
"high tow necessary" nonsense (for this site).

Today, that (highly inaccurate, for Boulder's geography) canard is largely
known - by relative newbies as well as old experienced farts - to be inaccurate.

Point being: Not all local knowledge is of equal value, regardless of where
you might be on soaring's endless learning curve. There's no substitute for
actual experience. Ask, and ye (may) receive. Do, and ye shall!

Bob W.

[SF]

Terry,
Ask Frank Reid for some advice on the best Silver distance courses out of BHS. He can probably make several good recomendations to you. Then ask Jay Campbell about weather. Wrangle a ride from one of their cross country pilots in their Duo, that experience will help a lot. An out and return would be easier. In your part of SC a 2,000 FT AGL tow is plenty. We routinely leave the airport from a Winch tow at less that 2,000FT AGL in Spartanburg, SC.

SF

[noel.wade]

Many people have already pointed out some online resources. I'd like
to take a different tack and suggest some reading. Bob Wander has 3
books I think are VERY helpful for anyone learning to fly XC (I'm not
affiliated with Mr. Wander in any way. I just like his books because
they helped me a lot, when I started about 5 years ago):

Thermals
Breaking the Apron Strings
The Cross-Country Manual for Glider-Pilots

....and he has a package deal with a couple of books on Badge Soaring.
Its $69... BUT its really good stuff and it'll pay for itself by
saving you a tow or two.
http://www.bobwander.com/cgi/generate1.cgi?action=graphic&graphic=package_xc.jpg
(image of the package deal)

The website is http://www.bobwander.com and the books are under the
"Cross Country Soaring" or "All Package Deals" categories.

Good luck, have fun, and keep at it!

--Noel

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Friday, February 15, 2013 1:21:54 PM UTC-6, wrote:

"Herb Knowing the fleet at Bermuda High, I suspect the plane will be a PW-5 or SGS1-26. The round trip might be a bit of a challenge for a beginner! Herb is right. Plan a round trip to a point 50km away. The 1% rule is computed on the entire flight, so as long as you make it back you are allowed 1000m for the release altitude. You do have to fly a 50km leg for the Silver distance. There are lots of cross country and badge savvy people at Bermuda High. They will have lots of good advice on how to make the flight and what is the best direction for a beginner. E.g. the straight line from BH to BBP crosses some tiger country, and the only airport in between (Wild Irish Rose) isn't recommended for glider landings. Matt"

Careful there, Matt. A LOT depends on just what is declared. Flying to a point 50 KM away and saying the flight ends there is a whole bunch different than flying to that same point 50 KM away, saying you are starting your flight there, and then flying home. One way, the 1% rule applies to the total flight from release to landing, the other way, only from release to turnpoint.

I am not a fan of allowing the out and return for Silver Distance. Sorry, but I am really old fashioned. You should plan a flight to another airport.. Make sure that airport is far enough from home that you are not worried about the 1% rule keeping you from towing to your normal release altitude.

As to weather sources, many have mentioned their favorites. They are all nice models to use to help you decide "do I want to try this today", but the best weather model you will ever find is waiting for you outside. See what the forecast says, then look outside and see what is really going on. Consult with some of your local cross o****ry flying pilots. Some may tell you they just go take a tow and if they stay up...

However you accomplish your Silver Distance, above all, have a fun time doing it!

Steve Leonard

[[email protected]]

On Monday, February 18, 2013 1:52:01 PM UTC-5, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Friday, February 15, 2013 1:21:54 PM UTC-6, wrote: "Herb Knowing the fleet at Bermuda High, I suspect the plane will be a PW-5 or SGS1-26. The round trip might be a bit of a challenge for a beginner! Herb is right. Plan a round trip to a point 50km away. The 1% rule is computed on the entire flight, so as long as you make it back you are allowed 1000m for the release altitude. You do have to fly a 50km leg for the Silver distance. There are lots of cross country and badge savvy people at Bermuda High. They will have lots of good advice on how to make the flight and what is the best direction for a beginner. E.g. the straight line from BH to BBP crosses some tiger country, and the only airport in between (Wild Irish Rose) isn't recommended for glider landings. Matt" Careful there, Matt. A LOT depends on just what is declared. Flying to a point 50 KM away and saying the flight ends there is a whole bunch different than flying to that same point 50 KM away, saying you are starting your flight there, and then flying home. One way, the 1% rule applies to the total flight from release to landing, the other way, only from release to turnpoint. I am not a fan of allowing the out and return for Silver Distance. Sorry, but I am really old fashioned. You should plan a flight to another airport. Make sure that airport is far enough from home that you are not worried about the 1% rule keeping you from towing to your normal release altitude. As to weather sources, many have mentioned their favorites. They are all nice models to use to help you decide "do I want to try this today", but the best weather model you will ever find is waiting for you outside. See what the forecast says, then look outside and see what is really going on. Consult with some of your local cross o****ry flying pilots. Some may tell you they just go take a tow and if they stay up... However you accomplish your Silver Distance, above all, have a fun time doing it! Steve Leonard

The best advice I can give is to read the sporting code before making the flight.
There is an ad on TV that says "they can't put anything wrong on the internet".
This could not be further from the truth, especially on RAS.
At the risk of comitting the same sin, my last read was that you can do a Silver distance using a remote start. The distance scored is from the remote start to the landing point. Altitude loss is from release to landing.
Now that one more recollection is out there, go read the rules.
Good luck and have fun
UH

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Monday, February 18, 2013 1:54:21 PM UTC-6, wrote:

>>The best advice I can give is to read the sporting code before making the >>flight. There is an ad on TV that says "they can't put anything wrong on the >>internet". This could not be further from the truth, especially on RAS. At >>the risk of comitting the same sin, my last read was that you can do a Silver >>distance using a remote start. The distance scored is from the remote start >>to the landing point. Altitude loss is from release to landing. Now that one >>more recollection is out there, go read the rules. Good luck and have fun UH

Thread creep happening, but I can't help it. Yes, Hank, you can put something on the internet that is "wrong". You can't put stuff on the internet that "isn't true." Uh, Bawn Jurr. :-)

Reading rules can be confusing. Decide what you want to do (fly straight out to a landing that will get enough distance covered for your Silver Distance) then talk to someone else that has read the rules and see if they agree with your approach. Again, note, I want to see you fly straight out for your Silver Distance. Land at another airport. Spread you wings.

I gave up one of the best soaring days of the summer a few years back to chase a friend on his Silver Distance. We picked an airport about 75 miles out for him to fly to. We got there first, and hid the crew car and trailer in a hangar. He reported he was overhead. We told him we didn't see him. He started to get nervous. He described the airport location and surroundings perfectly. We told he we still did not see him. Even though we did. He flew further towards the next town, verified everything on his map and came back to where he had been. We pulled the crew car and trailer out of the hangar and said "Oh, now we see you. Do you see us? Been here all the time." We had a friend's 10 or 12 year old son sign as one of the landing witnesses. They lived close by the airport.

You can't do that on an out and return. Yeah, it is more work for more people, but get your Silver Distance by flying straight out. It is a lot of fun. I did mine straight out. The map showed the runway diagonalling differently than what I saw from the air. I landed at Minneapolis, Kansas. There was a sign on one of the buildings that said "El Dorado". No way was I that lost (Minneaplois was straight north, El Dorado was nearly straight east)! Turns out they built El Dorado motorhomes on the airport at Minneapolis, Kansas.

Steve

[K]

On Monday, February 18, 2013 11:35:24 AM UTC-7, noel.wade wrote:
> Many people have already pointed out some online resources. I'd like
>
> to take a different tack and suggest some reading. Bob Wander has 3
>
> books I think are VERY helpful for anyone learning to fly XC (I'm not
>
> affiliated with Mr. Wander in any way. I just like his books because
>
> they helped me a lot, when I started about 5 years ago):
>
>
>
> Thermals
>
> Breaking the Apron Strings
>
> The Cross-Country Manual for Glider-Pilots
>
>
>
> ...and he has a package deal with a couple of books on Badge Soaring.
>
> Its $69... BUT its really good stuff and it'll pay for itself by
>
> saving you a tow or two.
>
> http://www.bobwander.com/cgi/generate1.cgi?action=graphic&graphic=package_xc.jpg
>
> (image of the package deal)
>
>
>
> The website is http://www.bobwander.com and the books are under the
>
> "Cross Country Soaring" or "All Package Deals" categories.
>
>
>
> Good luck, have fun, and keep at it!
>
>
>
> --Noel
Another excellent reference for badges and XC can be found here
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/books/Eckey/AdvancedSoaringMadeEasy.htm

[K]

On Monday, February 18, 2013 9:05:26 PM UTC-7, K wrote:
> On Monday, February 18, 2013 11:35:24 AM UTC-7, noel.wade wrote:
>
> > Many people have already pointed out some online resources. I'd like
>
> >
>
> > to take a different tack and suggest some reading. Bob Wander has 3
>
> >
>
> > books I think are VERY helpful for anyone learning to fly XC (I'm not
>
> >
>
> > affiliated with Mr. Wander in any way. I just like his books because
>
> >
>
> > they helped me a lot, when I started about 5 years ago):
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thermals
>
> >
>
> > Breaking the Apron Strings
>
> >
>
> > The Cross-Country Manual for Glider-Pilots
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ...and he has a package deal with a couple of books on Badge Soaring.
>
> >
>
> > Its $69... BUT its really good stuff and it'll pay for itself by
>
> >
>
> > saving you a tow or two.
>
> >
>
> > http://www.bobwander.com/cgi/generate1.cgi?action=graphic&graphic=package_xc.jpg
>
> >
>
> > (image of the package deal)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The website is http://www.bobwander.com and the books are under the
>
> >
>
> > "Cross Country Soaring" or "All Package Deals" categories.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Good luck, have fun, and keep at it!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --Noel
>
> Another excellent reference for badges and XC can be found here
>
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/books/Eckey/AdvancedSoaringMadeEasy.htm
Nothing to do with WX but it helps to be prepared
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/books/Gertsen/Off-AirportLandings.htm

[[email protected]]

On Monday, February 18, 2013 5:08:41 PM UTC-6, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Monday, February 18, 2013 1:54:21 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>
>
>
> >>The best advice I can give is to read the sporting code before making the >>flight. There is an ad on TV that says "they can't put anything wrong on the >>internet". This could not be further from the truth, especially on RAS. At >>the risk of comitting the same sin, my last read was that you can do a Silver >>distance using a remote start. The distance scored is from the remote start >>to the landing point. Altitude loss is from release to landing. Now that one >>more recollection is out there, go read the rules. Good luck and have fun UH
>
>
>
> Thread creep happening, but I can't help it. Yes, Hank, you can put something on the internet that is "wrong". You can't put stuff on the internet that "isn't true." Uh, Bawn Jurr. :-)
>
>
>
> Reading rules can be confusing. Decide what you want to do (fly straight out to a landing that will get enough distance covered for your Silver Distance) then talk to someone else that has read the rules and see if they agree with your approach. Again, note, I want to see you fly straight out for your Silver Distance. Land at another airport. Spread you wings.
>
>
>
> I gave up one of the best soaring days of the summer a few years back to chase a friend on his Silver Distance. We picked an airport about 75 miles out for him to fly to. We got there first, and hid the crew car and trailer in a hangar. He reported he was overhead. We told him we didn't see him. He started to get nervous. He described the airport location and surroundings perfectly. We told he we still did not see him. Even though we did. He flew further towards the next town, verified everything on his map and came back to where he had been. We pulled the crew car and trailer out of the hangar and said "Oh, now we see you. Do you see us? Been here all the time." We had a friend's 10 or 12 year old son sign as one of the landing witnesses. They lived close by the airport.
>
>
>
> You can't do that on an out and return. Yeah, it is more work for more people, but get your Silver Distance by flying straight out. It is a lot of fun. I did mine straight out. The map showed the runway diagonalling differently than what I saw from the air. I landed at Minneapolis, Kansas. There was a sign on one of the buildings that said "El Dorado". No way was I that lost (Minneaplois was straight north, El Dorado was nearly straight east)! Turns out they built El Dorado motorhomes on the airport at Minneapolis, Kansas.
>
>
>
> Steve

Steve,
Thanks for the memories and of course you are right. Did my Silver C that way back in Germany in '81 in a Ka-8. My wife and the kids came to pick me up. If you have a crew, by all means go off into the blue yonder and see what you find at the end of the rainbow...
Herb

[Peter von Tresckow]

> wrote:
> On Monday, February 18, 2013 5:08:41 PM UTC-6, Steve Leonard wrote:
>> On Monday, February 18, 2013 1:54:21 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> The best advice I can give is to read the sporting code before making
>>>> the >>flight. There is an ad on TV that says "they can't put anything
>>>> wrong on the >>internet". This could not be further from the truth,
>>>> especially on RAS. At >>the risk of comitting the same sin, my last
>>>> read was that you can do a Silver >>distance using a remote start. The
>>>> distance scored is from the remote start >>to the landing point.
>>>> Altitude loss is from release to landing. Now that one >>more
>>>> recollection is out there, go read the rules. Good luck and have fun UH
>>
>>
>>
>> Thread creep happening, but I can't help it. Yes, Hank, you can put
>> something on the internet that is "wrong". You can't put stuff on the
>> internet that "isn't true." Uh, Bawn Jurr. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Reading rules can be confusing. Decide what you want to do (fly
>> straight out to a landing that will get enough distance covered for your
>> Silver Distance) then talk to someone else that has read the rules and
>> see if they agree with your approach. Again, note, I want to see you
>> fly straight out for your Silver Distance. Land at another airport. Spread you wings.
>>
>>
>>
>> I gave up one of the best soaring days of the summer a few years back to
>> chase a friend on his Silver Distance. We picked an airport about 75
>> miles out for him to fly to. We got there first, and hid the crew car
>> and trailer in a hangar. He reported he was overhead. We told him we
>> didn't see him. He started to get nervous. He described the airport
>> location and surroundings perfectly. We told he we still did not see
>> him. Even though we did. He flew further towards the next town,
>> verified everything on his map and came back to where he had been. We
>> pulled the crew car and trailer out of the hangar and said "Oh, now we
>> see you. Do you see us? Been here all the time." We had a friend's 10
>> or 12 year old son sign as one of the landing witnesses. They lived
>> close by the airport.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can't do that on an out and return. Yeah, it is more work for more
>> people, but get your Silver Distance by flying straight out. It is a
>> lot of fun. I did mine straight out. The map showed the runway
>> diagonalling differently than what I saw from the air. I landed at
>> Minneapolis, Kansas. There was a sign on one of the buildings that said
>> "El Dorado". No way was I that lost (Minneaplois was straight north, El
>> Dorado was nearly straight east)! Turns out they built El Dorado
>> motorhomes on the airport at Minneapolis, Kansas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>
> Steve,
> Thanks for the memories and of course you are right. Did my Silver C
> that way back in Germany in '81 in a Ka-8. My wife and the kids came to
> pick me up. If you have a crew, by all means go off into the blue yonder
> and see what you find at the end of the rainbow...
> Herb

Love this discussion. While I didn't do the downwind run, I did mine in a
Ka-6Cr. It was a pretty decent day and I managed to log 177 olc km.

Herb show us vintage guys some love :-)

Pete

PS steal a Ka8 and come out to Wichita for Tony's low performance contest
:-)