Good News on Delorme InReach (2 min tracking and altitude vs. Spot w/10 min tracking and no altitude)

[Sean F (F2)]

I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big, big argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.

The frustration I have had with Spot is its poor website interface, sub standard social app integration and general poor usability. The Spot connect device for example, will not start tracking unless you have cell phone data available when you want to begin tracking. If you do not have data available on your cellphone, no tracking! Additionally, their network offers only position at 10 minute intervals and no altitude.

Delorme offers 2 minute intervals with altitude!!! These improvements will make tracking soaring flights far more interesting and enjoyable for spectators, crews, family and friends. It will also make it obvious if the aircraft/pilot has landed or crashed (and potentially shorted response time to send help or begin a search). With spot for example you have no idea if the pilot is trying to make a low save over that point where traces are stacking up over time or if they are indeed on the ground. With that, I was very excited when I heard about the SSA's work to utilize the Delorme product into a new tracking capability. The 2 minute updates and altitude alone (along with better software on mobile and web) made the switch an easy decision.

The only issue, as you might expect, is the higher cost of the Delorme unit and service. The DeLorme InReach unit is $249 (http://www.cumulus-soaring..com/delorme.htm) vs. $150 for the Spot connect or $99 for the older Spot II. 2 aspects of the DeLorme subscription plan where, initially (yesterday), different. With DeLorme, the 2 minute interval for Aviation is considered a "professional" account. This provides upgraded 2 minute update intervals and altitude but comes at a more expensive rate with potential overage charges (bit based). The plans assume a certain number of flying hours per month (6 to 65) and range from $17 - $62 per month. It looks like, for me, the $40 per month (34 hours) would be sufficient for me.

The second aspect was the real problem. As I called DeLorme yesterday to register my unit and buy the subscription plan, I learned of a business practice which I found revolting. The support person told me that the unit required a special firmware update in order to support the 2 minute transmission schedule (the standard Delorme units use the traditional 10 minute intervals and this is how they come out of the box). The kicker was (wait for it.......) that that firmware upgrade was going to cost me an additional $100. I immediately thought of the complaining my Dad makes about the $99 to $200 per year cost of the Spot subscription plan for his glider. This complaining is not unique in the US soaring community. $40 per month ($480 per year) is alot already, but this "insult to injury" $100 firmware upgrade fee was simply out of bounds. There was little chance that most soaring pilots would pay for this additional capability with a $200+ annual additional cost.

Needless to say I took the support people on and made a distinct argument as to how ridiculous charging private pilots a $100 fee to use their more expensive service after buying their more expensive unit. I was transferred higher and higher up the chain as each person ran out of energy trying to justify the charge. I cited their own website, press releases and literature which claims all the aviation benefits (2 min, altitude, etc) but makes no mention of a more costly rate plan or firmware charge. Soon I was speaking with the head of marketing and he agreed to take my complaint (and mild threats to publicize the business practice and false advertising) to their executive strategy meeting this morning. After several emails to various Delorme executives last night and this morning, I received the email below. This email clearly acknowledges the stupidity of charging private pilots (glider pilots, etc) $100 to upgrade the product and explains that from this moment forward, DeLorme has changed its policy worldwide.

-----
Hello Sean

Thank you for your reply and interest in the DeLorme inReach.

I received permission to waive the $100 dollar upgrade in your case! Also in discussions with upper management we will waive this upgrade for any individual pilot. Thank you for your feedback!

To setup your account, please fill in the attached form and send it in a reply email with the IMEI number of the device and the plan you would like to choose from the Sell Sheet I sent you.

I would also need your Credit Card information listed below. Please contact our Customer Care department (800.511.2459) and any of my reps. can take this information.
Note: Please do not sent credit card information via email as that is an unsecure method of communication.

Name on Card:
Type:
Number:
Expiration Date:
Security Code: (on back of card)
Billing address on card (if different from attached form)

If you have any questions, please reply to this email.

Regards,

Kurt Ringrose
DeLorme Customer Care Manager
Email-
Phone- 207.846.7112
Fax- 207.847.5112
Many answers can be found at our on-line knowledge base within the link below.
http://support.delorme.com
Latitude 43°48.491' N, Longitude 70°09.844' W
----

I will have the my new DeLorme tracker running at Seniors in Florida in a couple weeks and the CC Clinic the week afterwards. Frank Paynter is also using the unit and is working with the SSA to get this higher level of tracking integrated with the SSA website!

Best,

Sean
F2

[Paul Remde]

Hi Sean,

Thank you for getting the $100 firmware fee waived for pilots going forward!
That is great news.

Note: Not all glider pilots will opt for the 1 minute tracking available in
the aviation plan. Even with their standard consumer plans with 10 minute
tracking intervals the units still transmit altitude and airspeed and
heading and have many other advantages over competitive units. But the 1
minute tracking is very exiting. I sincerely feel it could make soaring
contests much more fun for spectators.

There are a few other very nice advantages to the new DeLorme inReach:

*** Friends viewing your shared page can "ping" your location (if enabled)
even if the unit is not in tracking mode. That would be handy in an
emergency. The unit only needs to be turned-on.
*** Having the antenna on top makes it easy to get a good connection with
the unit in a pouch on your parachute strap.
*** Friends viewing your shared page can send you a message (if enabled) -
If your smartphone is on it will alert you to the reception of the message.
* 2-way messages can be sent to any email address or cell phone (text
message)
*** The inReach works great with, or without a smartphone connected to it.
It is easy to put into track mode and send one of 3 pre-defined messages
using the buttons on the front of the unit.
* Better satellite coverage than competitive products - 100% of the world is
covered
* Track points include not only GPS position, but also altitude,
groundspeed, and heading - making it easy for your friends to see whether or
not you are still flying.
* With the optional "Aviation" data plan, the tracking interval can be set
at 1, 1.5, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 60, 120 or 240 minutes. Using the 1 minute
tracking interval would make flight following at a soaring contest a lot of
fun. It would enhance safety by reducing the search radius in the even the
unit stopped transmitting.
*The tracking interval automatically goes to 4 hours when not moving and
back to the user selected tracking interval if you move more than 100 meters
(328 ft).
* Download free detailed topographical maps to your smartphone (at home) and
navigate using the inReach as your GPS data source when out in the field.

More details about the hardware and plans are available here:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm

I have put a lot of time into the site. I created spreadsheet tables that
make it easy to figure out how much the data plans will cost. If you find
the site useful - please buy your inReach unit from me.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
_________________________________________________
"Sean F (F2)" wrote in message
...

I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big, big
argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.

The frustration I have had with Spot is its poor website interface, sub
standard social app integration and general poor usability. The Spot
connect device for example, will not start tracking unless you have cell
phone data available when you want to begin tracking. If you do not have
data available on your cellphone, no tracking! Additionally, their network
offers only position at 10 minute intervals and no altitude.

Delorme offers 2 minute intervals with altitude!!! These improvements will
make tracking soaring flights far more interesting and enjoyable for
spectators, crews, family and friends. It will also make it obvious if the
aircraft/pilot has landed or crashed (and potentially shorted response time
to send help or begin a search). With spot for example you have no idea if
the pilot is trying to make a low save over that point where traces are
stacking up over time or if they are indeed on the ground. With that, I was
very excited when I heard about the SSA's work to utilize the Delorme
product into a new tracking capability. The 2 minute updates and altitude
alone (along with better software on mobile and web) made the switch an easy
decision.

The only issue, as you might expect, is the higher cost of the Delorme unit
and service. The DeLorme InReach unit is $249
(http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm) vs. $150 for the Spot connect
or $99 for the older Spot II. 2 aspects of the DeLorme subscription plan
where, initially (yesterday), different. With DeLorme, the 2 minute
interval for Aviation is considered a "professional" account. This provides
upgraded 2 minute update intervals and altitude but comes at a more
expensive rate with potential overage charges (bit based). The plans assume
a certain number of flying hours per month (6 to 65) and range from $17 -
$62 per month. It looks like, for me, the $40 per month (34 hours) would be
sufficient for me.

The second aspect was the real problem. As I called DeLorme yesterday to
register my unit and buy the subscription plan, I learned of a business
practice which I found revolting. The support person told me that the unit
required a special firmware update in order to support the 2 minute
transmission schedule (the standard Delorme units use the traditional 10
minute intervals and this is how they come out of the box). The kicker was
(wait for it.......) that that firmware upgrade was going to cost me an
additional $100. I immediately thought of the complaining my Dad makes
about the $99 to $200 per year cost of the Spot subscription plan for his
glider. This complaining is not unique in the US soaring community. $40
per month ($480 per year) is alot already, but this "insult to injury" $100
firmware upgrade fee was simply out of bounds. There was little chance that
most soaring pilots would pay for this additional capability with a $200+
annual additional cost.

Needless to say I took the support people on and made a distinct argument as
to how ridiculous charging private pilots a $100 fee to use their more
expensive service after buying their more expensive unit. I was transferred
higher and higher up the chain as each person ran out of energy trying to
justify the charge. I cited their own website, press releases and
literature which claims all the aviation benefits (2 min, altitude, etc) but
makes no mention of a more costly rate plan or firmware charge. Soon I was
speaking with the head of marketing and he agreed to take my complaint (and
mild threats to publicize the business practice and false advertising) to
their executive strategy meeting this morning. After several emails to
various Delorme executives last night and this morning, I received the email
below. This email clearly acknowledges the stupidity of charging private
pilots (glider pilots, etc) $100 to upgrade the product and explains that
from this moment forward, DeLorme has changed its policy worldwide.

-----
Hello Sean

Thank you for your reply and interest in the DeLorme inReach.

I received permission to waive the $100 dollar upgrade in your case! Also
in discussions with upper management we will waive this upgrade for any
individual pilot. Thank you for your feedback!

To setup your account, please fill in the attached form and send it in a
reply email with the IMEI number of the device and the plan you would like
to choose from the Sell Sheet I sent you.

I would also need your Credit Card information listed below. Please contact
our Customer Care department (800.511.2459) and any of my reps. can take
this information.
Note: Please do not sent credit card information via email as that is an
unsecure method of communication.

Name on Card:
Type:
Number:
Expiration Date:
Security Code: (on back of card)
Billing address on card (if different from attached form)

If you have any questions, please reply to this email.

Regards,

Kurt Ringrose
DeLorme Customer Care Manager
Email-
Phone- 207.846.7112
Fax- 207.847.5112
Many answers can be found at our on-line knowledge base within the link
below.
http://support.delorme.com
Latitude 43°48.491' N, Longitude 70°09.844' W
----

I will have the my new DeLorme tracker running at Seniors in Florida in a
couple weeks and the CC Clinic the week afterwards. Frank Paynter is also
using the unit and is working with the SSA to get this higher level of
tracking integrated with the SSA website!

Best,

Sean
F2

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 2/21/2013 7:46 AM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big,
> big argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.

It's heart-warming to see Sean use his "argumentative tenacity" for
"good" instead of for "evil" :^)

Thanks to Sean for pressing hard on the clueless, and thanks to Delorme
for listening. It was a nutty marketing strategy, when everyone knows
you give the razor away and sell the blades!

I'm currently considering not renewing my Spot subscription, and
switching to the InReach.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:46:52 AM UTC-5, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big, big argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.

Thanks Sean! In my book, you have earned a "RAS Bitch and Moan Pass". Keep it up. Very productive. This is on top of your productive agitation leading to the reinvigorated SSA Youtube channel.

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:49:46 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> I'm currently considering not renewing my Spot subscription, and
> switching to the InReach.

Are Spot subscription contracts transferable to buyers of used SPOTs and if so, what is the market price? Weren't they were giving away SPOT hardware last fall?

Yep. I'm cheap. Gotta pay for tows.

[Tony[_5_]]

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:01:17 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:49:46 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm currently considering not renewing my Spot subscription, and
>
> > switching to the InReach.
>
>
>
> Are Spot subscription contracts transferable to buyers of used SPOTs and if so, what is the market price? Weren't they were giving away SPOT hardware last fall?
>
>
>
> Yep. I'm cheap. Gotta pay for tows.

SPOT often gives the hardware away. especially for events like christmas and Oshkosh.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:01:17 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:49:46 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm currently considering not renewing my Spot subscription, and
>
> > switching to the InReach.
>
>
>
> Are Spot subscription contracts transferable to buyers of used SPOTs and if so, what is the market price? Weren't they were giving away SPOT hardware last fall?
>
>
>
> Yep. I'm cheap. Gotta pay for tows.

Yes, they do transfer. When I bought one a few years ago the remaining year
on the contract came with it. The pricing seemed to reflect the cost of
the contract.

Matt

[Sean F (F2)]

Lol! Evil!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw

[Pam Howarth]

OK if I buy one from Cumulus Soaring, Inc. will it work in the French Alps
or is there a European agent?

[Pam Howarth]

OK if I buy one from Cumulus Soaring, Inc. will it work in the French Alps
or is there a European agent?

[Todd]

There is still the almost FREE amateur radio APRS solution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_System ). For a one time cost of $220 USD you can get a small self-contained, user configurable APRS transmitter ( http://www.byonics.com/mt-rtg ) and get free tracking for the rest of your life.

Amateur radio licenses no longer require you to know Morse code and the written test is no harder than the FAA written you took for your glider rating.. And some of the theory may actually be helpful next time your are dealing with radio issues in your aircraft.

Sample APRS track http://aprs.fi/N8RNW-6 Note: if you click on the "dots" on the track, you get speed and altitude.

[Paul Remde]

Hi Pam,

Yes. Thank you for asking. The units and plans sold in the USA are good for
the USA and Europe. As stated on my DeLorme web page, customers in Canada,
Australia, New Zealand and Indonesia need to buy their plans from the sites
listed. I believe they can still buy the unit from me.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
__________________________

"Pam Howarth" wrote in message
...

OK if I buy one from Cumulus Soaring, Inc. will it work in the French Alps
or is there a European agent?

[Sean F (F2)]

Have my Delorme up and running and about to head out for a drive to get some data. I will post the link shortly. So far looks like 2 min updates, altitude etc as advertised.

Amazing how SUPERIOR the software, website and integration with social media apps the Delorme is when compared to the AWFUL Spot crap. This is worth every single penny and then some.

Best,

Sean

[Sean F (F2)]

https://share.delorme.com/SeanFidler

Just did a quick drive to meet friends for dinner. This was a 25 mile drive at highway and surface streets. About a 300 ft altitude change over the drive. You can imagine how impressive this will be during flight.

The link above is a sample of the DeLorme InReach product tracking with 2 min intervals and altitude. Click on any tracking point along the route for altitude and point details. DeLorme has been impressive from the hardware to the website (especially so) to the mobile app. Everything has worked literally flawlessly out of the box. No glitches, puzzles or issues. The quality of the software is stunning, especially when compared with the sub sub rate functionality of Spot website and mobile app. This is how electronic systems must be.

At this point, I am delighted with DeLorme, as I need to be to justify the price.. This does not happen often.

I can't wait to fly with this product in Florida.

Best,

Sean

[Craig Funston[_2_]]

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 7:46:52 AM UTC-8, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big, big argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.
>
>
>
> The frustration I have had with Spot is its poor website interface, sub standard social app integration and general poor usability. The Spot connect device for example, will not start tracking unless you have cell phone data available when you want to begin tracking. If you do not have data available on your cellphone, no tracking! Additionally, their network offers only position at 10 minute intervals and no altitude.
>
>
>
> Delorme offers 2 minute intervals with altitude!!! These improvements will make tracking soaring flights far more interesting and enjoyable for spectators, crews, family and friends. It will also make it obvious if the aircraft/pilot has landed or crashed (and potentially shorted response time to send help or begin a search). With spot for example you have no idea if the pilot is trying to make a low save over that point where traces are stacking up over time or if they are indeed on the ground. With that, I was very excited when I heard about the SSA's work to utilize the Delorme product into a new tracking capability. The 2 minute updates and altitude alone (along with better software on mobile and web) made the switch an easy decision.
>
>
>
> The only issue, as you might expect, is the higher cost of the Delorme unit and service. The DeLorme InReach unit is $249 (http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm) vs. $150 for the Spot connect or $99 for the older Spot II. 2 aspects of the DeLorme subscription plan where, initially (yesterday), different. With DeLorme, the 2 minute interval for Aviation is considered a "professional" account. This provides upgraded 2 minute update intervals and altitude but comes at a more expensive rate with potential overage charges (bit based). The plans assume a certain number of flying hours per month (6 to 65) and range from $17 - $62 per month. It looks like, for me, the $40 per month (34 hours) would be sufficient for me.
>
>
>
> The second aspect was the real problem. As I called DeLorme yesterday to register my unit and buy the subscription plan, I learned of a business practice which I found revolting. The support person told me that the unit required a special firmware update in order to support the 2 minute transmission schedule (the standard Delorme units use the traditional 10 minute intervals and this is how they come out of the box). The kicker was (wait for it.......) that that firmware upgrade was going to cost me an additional $100. I immediately thought of the complaining my Dad makes about the $99 to $200 per year cost of the Spot subscription plan for his glider. This complaining is not unique in the US soaring community. $40 per month ($480 per year) is alot already, but this "insult to injury" $100 firmware upgrade fee was simply out of bounds. There was little chance that most soaring pilots would pay for this additional capability with a $200+ annual additional cost.
>
>
>
> Needless to say I took the support people on and made a distinct argument as to how ridiculous charging private pilots a $100 fee to use their more expensive service after buying their more expensive unit. I was transferred higher and higher up the chain as each person ran out of energy trying to justify the charge. I cited their own website, press releases and literature which claims all the aviation benefits (2 min, altitude, etc) but makes no mention of a more costly rate plan or firmware charge. Soon I was speaking with the head of marketing and he agreed to take my complaint (and mild threats to publicize the business practice and false advertising) to their executive strategy meeting this morning. After several emails to various Delorme executives last night and this morning, I received the email below.. This email clearly acknowledges the stupidity of charging private pilots (glider pilots, etc) $100 to upgrade the product and explains that from this moment forward, DeLorme has changed its policy worldwide.
>
>
>
> -----
>
> Hello Sean
>
>
>
> Thank you for your reply and interest in the DeLorme inReach.
>
>
>
> I received permission to waive the $100 dollar upgrade in your case! Also in discussions with upper management we will waive this upgrade for any individual pilot. Thank you for your feedback!
>
>
>
> To setup your account, please fill in the attached form and send it in a reply email with the IMEI number of the device and the plan you would like to choose from the Sell Sheet I sent you.
>
>
>
> I would also need your Credit Card information listed below. Please contact our Customer Care department (800.511.2459) and any of my reps. can take this information.
>
> Note: Please do not sent credit card information via email as that is an unsecure method of communication.
>
>
>
> Name on Card:
>
> Type:
>
> Number:
>
> Expiration Date:
>
> Security Code: (on back of card)
>
> Billing address on card (if different from attached form)
>
>
>
> If you have any questions, please reply to this email.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Kurt Ringrose
>
> DeLorme Customer Care Manager
>
> Email-
>
> Phone- 207.846.7112
>
> Fax- 207.847.5112
>
> Many answers can be found at our on-line knowledge base within the link below.
>
> http://support.delorme.com
>
> Latitude 43°48.491' N, Longitude 70°09.844' W
>
> ----
>
>
>
> I will have the my new DeLorme tracker running at Seniors in Florida in a couple weeks and the CC Clinic the week afterwards. Frank Paynter is also using the unit and is working with the SSA to get this higher level of tracking integrated with the SSA website!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Sean
>
> F2

Very cool. Just don't turn this trak over to the State Patrol or your auto insurance company. Just sayin..

Thanks for your work with DeLorme

Craig

[Sean F (F2)]

80 in a 70! Really? In Detroit on 696, trust me, that is crawling! I was lucky to survive being rear ended by most traffic going 90.

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:06:21 PM UTC-5, Craig Funston wrote:
> On Thursday, February 21, 2013 7:46:52 AM UTC-8, Sean F (F2) wrote:
>
> > I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big, big argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The frustration I have had with Spot is its poor website interface, sub standard social app integration and general poor usability. The Spot connect device for example, will not start tracking unless you have cell phone data available when you want to begin tracking. If you do not have data available on your cellphone, no tracking! Additionally, their network offers only position at 10 minute intervals and no altitude.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Delorme offers 2 minute intervals with altitude!!! These improvements will make tracking soaring flights far more interesting and enjoyable for spectators, crews, family and friends. It will also make it obvious if the aircraft/pilot has landed or crashed (and potentially shorted response time to send help or begin a search). With spot for example you have no idea if the pilot is trying to make a low save over that point where traces are stacking up over time or if they are indeed on the ground. With that, I was very excited when I heard about the SSA's work to utilize the Delorme product into a new tracking capability. The 2 minute updates and altitude alone (along with better software on mobile and web) made the switch an easy decision.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The only issue, as you might expect, is the higher cost of the Delorme unit and service. The DeLorme InReach unit is $249 (http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm) vs. $150 for the Spot connect or $99 for the older Spot II. 2 aspects of the DeLorme subscription plan where, initially (yesterday), different. With DeLorme, the 2 minute interval for Aviation is considered a "professional" account. This provides upgraded 2 minute update intervals and altitude but comes at a more expensive rate with potential overage charges (bit based). The plans assume a certain number of flying hours per month (6 to 65) and range from $17 - $62 per month. It looks like, for me, the $40 per month (34 hours) would be sufficient for me.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The second aspect was the real problem. As I called DeLorme yesterday to register my unit and buy the subscription plan, I learned of a business practice which I found revolting. The support person told me that the unit required a special firmware update in order to support the 2 minute transmission schedule (the standard Delorme units use the traditional 10 minute intervals and this is how they come out of the box). The kicker was (wait for it.......) that that firmware upgrade was going to cost me an additional $100. I immediately thought of the complaining my Dad makes about the $99 to $200 per year cost of the Spot subscription plan for his glider. This complaining is not unique in the US soaring community. $40 per month ($480 per year) is alot already, but this "insult to injury" $100 firmware upgrade fee was simply out of bounds. There was little chance that most soaring pilots would pay for this additional capability with a $200+ annual additional cost.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Needless to say I took the support people on and made a distinct argument as to how ridiculous charging private pilots a $100 fee to use their more expensive service after buying their more expensive unit. I was transferred higher and higher up the chain as each person ran out of energy trying to justify the charge. I cited their own website, press releases and literature which claims all the aviation benefits (2 min, altitude, etc) but makes no mention of a more costly rate plan or firmware charge. Soon I was speaking with the head of marketing and he agreed to take my complaint (and mild threats to publicize the business practice and false advertising) to their executive strategy meeting this morning. After several emails to various Delorme executives last night and this morning, I received the email below. This email clearly acknowledges the stupidity of charging private pilots (glider pilots, etc) $100 to upgrade the product and explains that from this moment forward, DeLorme has changed its policy worldwide.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----
>
> >
>
> > Hello Sean
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thank you for your reply and interest in the DeLorme inReach.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I received permission to waive the $100 dollar upgrade in your case! Also in discussions with upper management we will waive this upgrade for any individual pilot. Thank you for your feedback!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To setup your account, please fill in the attached form and send it in a reply email with the IMEI number of the device and the plan you would like to choose from the Sell Sheet I sent you.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I would also need your Credit Card information listed below. Please contact our Customer Care department (800.511.2459) and any of my reps. can take this information.
>
> >
>
> > Note: Please do not sent credit card information via email as that is an unsecure method of communication.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Name on Card:
>
> >
>
> > Type:
>
> >
>
> > Number:
>
> >
>
> > Expiration Date:
>
> >
>
> > Security Code: (on back of card)
>
> >
>
> > Billing address on card (if different from attached form)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If you have any questions, please reply to this email.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Kurt Ringrose
>
> >
>
> > DeLorme Customer Care Manager
>
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> > Phone- 207.846.7112
>
> >
>
> > Fax- 207.847.5112
>
> >
>
> > Many answers can be found at our on-line knowledge base within the link below.
>
> >
>
> > http://support.delorme.com
>
> >
>
> > Latitude 43°48.491' N, Longitude 70°09.844' W
>
> >
>
> > ----
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I will have the my new DeLorme tracker running at Seniors in Florida in a couple weeks and the CC Clinic the week afterwards. Frank Paynter is also using the unit and is working with the SSA to get this higher level of tracking integrated with the SSA website!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Best,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Sean
>
> >
>
> > F2
>
>
>
> Very cool. Just don't turn this trak over to the State Patrol or your auto insurance company. Just sayin..
>
>
>
> Thanks for your work with DeLorme
>
>
>
> Craig

[Ramy]

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:25:10 AM UTC-8, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Sean,
>
>
>
> Thank you for getting the $100 firmware fee waived for pilots going forward!
>
> That is great news.
>
>
>
> Note: Not all glider pilots will opt for the 1 minute tracking available in
>
> the aviation plan. Even with their standard consumer plans with 10 minute
>
> tracking intervals the units still transmit altitude and airspeed and
>
> heading and have many other advantages over competitive units. But the 1
>
> minute tracking is very exiting. I sincerely feel it could make soaring
>
> contests much more fun for spectators.
>
>
>
> There are a few other very nice advantages to the new DeLorme inReach:
>
>
>
> *** Friends viewing your shared page can "ping" your location (if enabled)
>
> even if the unit is not in tracking mode. That would be handy in an
>
> emergency. The unit only needs to be turned-on.
>
> *** Having the antenna on top makes it easy to get a good connection with
>
> the unit in a pouch on your parachute strap.
>
> *** Friends viewing your shared page can send you a message (if enabled) -
>
> If your smartphone is on it will alert you to the reception of the message.
>
> * 2-way messages can be sent to any email address or cell phone (text
>
> message)
>
> *** The inReach works great with, or without a smartphone connected to it..
>
> It is easy to put into track mode and send one of 3 pre-defined messages
>
> using the buttons on the front of the unit.
>
> * Better satellite coverage than competitive products - 100% of the world is
>
> covered
>
> * Track points include not only GPS position, but also altitude,
>
> groundspeed, and heading - making it easy for your friends to see whether or
>
> not you are still flying.
>
> * With the optional "Aviation" data plan, the tracking interval can be set
>
> at 1, 1.5, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 60, 120 or 240 minutes. Using the 1 minute
>
> tracking interval would make flight following at a soaring contest a lot of
>
> fun. It would enhance safety by reducing the search radius in the even the
>
> unit stopped transmitting.
>
> *The tracking interval automatically goes to 4 hours when not moving and
>
> back to the user selected tracking interval if you move more than 100 meters
>
> (328 ft).
>
> * Download free detailed topographical maps to your smartphone (at home) and
>
> navigate using the inReach as your GPS data source when out in the field.
>
>
>
> More details about the hardware and plans are available here:
>
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm
>
>
>
> I have put a lot of time into the site. I created spreadsheet tables that
>
> make it easy to figure out how much the data plans will cost. If you find
>
> the site useful - please buy your inReach unit from me.
>
>
>
> Good Soaring,
>
>
>
> Paul Remde
>
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> "Sean F (F2)" wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big, big
>
> argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.
>
>
>
> The frustration I have had with Spot is its poor website interface, sub
>
> standard social app integration and general poor usability. The Spot
>
> connect device for example, will not start tracking unless you have cell
>
> phone data available when you want to begin tracking. If you do not have
>
> data available on your cellphone, no tracking! Additionally, their network
>
> offers only position at 10 minute intervals and no altitude.
>
>
>
> Delorme offers 2 minute intervals with altitude!!! These improvements will
>
> make tracking soaring flights far more interesting and enjoyable for
>
> spectators, crews, family and friends. It will also make it obvious if the
>
> aircraft/pilot has landed or crashed (and potentially shorted response time
>
> to send help or begin a search). With spot for example you have no idea if
>
> the pilot is trying to make a low save over that point where traces are
>
> stacking up over time or if they are indeed on the ground. With that, I was
>
> very excited when I heard about the SSA's work to utilize the Delorme
>
> product into a new tracking capability. The 2 minute updates and altitude
>
> alone (along with better software on mobile and web) made the switch an easy
>
> decision.
>
>
>
> The only issue, as you might expect, is the higher cost of the Delorme unit
>
> and service. The DeLorme InReach unit is $249
>
> (http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm) vs. $150 for the Spot connect
>
> or $99 for the older Spot II. 2 aspects of the DeLorme subscription plan
>
> where, initially (yesterday), different. With DeLorme, the 2 minute
>
> interval for Aviation is considered a "professional" account. This provides
>
> upgraded 2 minute update intervals and altitude but comes at a more
>
> expensive rate with potential overage charges (bit based). The plans assume
>
> a certain number of flying hours per month (6 to 65) and range from $17 -
>
> $62 per month. It looks like, for me, the $40 per month (34 hours) would be
>
> sufficient for me.
>
>
>
> The second aspect was the real problem. As I called DeLorme yesterday to
>
> register my unit and buy the subscription plan, I learned of a business
>
> practice which I found revolting. The support person told me that the unit
>
> required a special firmware update in order to support the 2 minute
>
> transmission schedule (the standard Delorme units use the traditional 10
>
> minute intervals and this is how they come out of the box). The kicker was
>
> (wait for it.......) that that firmware upgrade was going to cost me an
>
> additional $100. I immediately thought of the complaining my Dad makes
>
> about the $99 to $200 per year cost of the Spot subscription plan for his
>
> glider. This complaining is not unique in the US soaring community. $40
>
> per month ($480 per year) is alot already, but this "insult to injury" $100
>
> firmware upgrade fee was simply out of bounds. There was little chance that
>
> most soaring pilots would pay for this additional capability with a $200+
>
> annual additional cost.
>
>
>
> Needless to say I took the support people on and made a distinct argument as
>
> to how ridiculous charging private pilots a $100 fee to use their more
>
> expensive service after buying their more expensive unit. I was transferred
>
> higher and higher up the chain as each person ran out of energy trying to
>
> justify the charge. I cited their own website, press releases and
>
> literature which claims all the aviation benefits (2 min, altitude, etc) but
>
> makes no mention of a more costly rate plan or firmware charge. Soon I was
>
> speaking with the head of marketing and he agreed to take my complaint (and
>
> mild threats to publicize the business practice and false advertising) to
>
> their executive strategy meeting this morning. After several emails to
>
> various Delorme executives last night and this morning, I received the email
>
> below. This email clearly acknowledges the stupidity of charging private
>
> pilots (glider pilots, etc) $100 to upgrade the product and explains that
>
> from this moment forward, DeLorme has changed its policy worldwide.
>
>
>
> -----
>
> Hello Sean
>
>
>
> Thank you for your reply and interest in the DeLorme inReach.
>
>
>
> I received permission to waive the $100 dollar upgrade in your case! Also
>
> in discussions with upper management we will waive this upgrade for any
>
> individual pilot. Thank you for your feedback!
>
>
>
> To setup your account, please fill in the attached form and send it in a
>
> reply email with the IMEI number of the device and the plan you would like
>
> to choose from the Sell Sheet I sent you.
>
>
>
> I would also need your Credit Card information listed below. Please contact
>
> our Customer Care department (800.511.2459) and any of my reps. can take
>
> this information.
>
> Note: Please do not sent credit card information via email as that is an
>
> unsecure method of communication.
>
>
>
> Name on Card:
>
> Type:
>
> Number:
>
> Expiration Date:
>
> Security Code: (on back of card)
>
> Billing address on card (if different from attached form)
>
>
>
> If you have any questions, please reply to this email.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Kurt Ringrose
>
> DeLorme Customer Care Manager
>
> Email-
>
> Phone- 207.846.7112
>
> Fax- 207.847.5112
>
> Many answers can be found at our on-line knowledge base within the link
>
> below.
>
> http://support.delorme.com
>
> Latitude 43°48.491' N, Longitude 70°09.844' W
>
> ----
>
>
>
> I will have the my new DeLorme tracker running at Seniors in Florida in a
>
> couple weeks and the CC Clinic the week afterwards. Frank Paynter is also
>
> using the unit and is working with the SSA to get this higher level of
>
> tracking integrated with the SSA website!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Sean
>
> F2

So in sake of deciding how much switching to InReach will actually cost in annual fee (ignoring the initial cost of the unit which diminishes overtime comparing to the total cost of few year of subscription) it seems that for the same annual fee as the Spot service ($150) I can get the aviation subscription and set it to the same interval as spot (10 min) which will provide nearly 20 hours per month of tracking, which should be sufficient for most pilots. Those who fly less may even switch it to higher tracking rate. And if I understand correct, anyone viewing my shared page can ping me anytime for real time position. In addition it will provide altitude (very useful), much better UI and smarphone integration for two way text messaging, all for the same annual cost as Spot! Did I understand this correctly? If so, it is almost a no brainer better deal.

Ramy

[Sean F (F2)]

Ramy,

You got it! :-). DeLorme InReach appears to be night and day better when compared to Spot. I never liked Spot to be honest and suspect that many of you felt the same. It annoyed me how poor and out of date it's website was. The mobile app was poor. As you can see from my sample track, DeLormes website is of very high quality. It runs beautifully on PC, Mac, Android and IOS. I am able to easily access all functions on any device or browser.. The software is well thought out and complete.

Your followers do have the ability (if tracking is forgotten or off) to ping you at any time and see your location, speed and altitude within 1 min typically. They do this simply thru the website tracking page. They can also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the mobile app you can read it (note: having your cell phone on board during contest flight is currently illegal according to the SSA US contest rules :-( )

The costs are negligible for the aviation plans (2 min tracking interval) AND I still want someone to test if the regular plans provide altitude with 10 min updates. I suspect they do provide altitude as well but have not confirmed.

Sean

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 2/22/2013 9:16 AM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> They can also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the
> mobile app you can read it (note: having your cell phone on board
> during contest flight is currently illegal according to the SSA US
> contest rules:-( )

It's not illegal to carry the phone in the glider. Cheez.

Further, not necessary to have a cell phone to read the text message, as
you can also use an iPad, iPod touch, Android device, or DeLorme PN-60w.

I'm thinking of carrying an iPod Touch anyway, loaded with sectionals
and a flight computer program (to back up my primary computer), and
perhaps as a remote viewer/controller for a video camera mounted on/in
the glider.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Sean F (F2)]

Eric,

Isn't it illegal to utilize outside communications while flying an SSA contest? Things such as cell or satellite accessed weather? Communicating with outside parties such as ground crew via cell data networks? By using the non cell phone devices you mention instead of cell enabled devices, as I understand current US SSA rules, you would (remember here in the SSA pilots are assumed guilty until proven innocent :-)) still have the same (SSA ILLEGAL) ability to exchange digital communications with your crew or other outside parties. Or imagine having your position relayed every 2 minutes to other pilots via sneaky crews, etc. Almost as terrible as the myth of Flarm Leeching. :-). FYI you can secure your DeLorme tracking map with a simple password...so this is not a big deal.

We are talking about satellite based communications vs. cell phone or radio based. Wether or not you use a iPod touch or an data/cell enabled iPhone makes very little difference in the application of each system. Both are illegal as I understand the rules. I feel like Johny English with useless instead of effective gadgets (smart phone AH, etc), but illegal gadgets nonetheless.

My point is that the useful, safety aspects of the DeLorme system greatly outweighs the dark side cheating risks. Nevertheless this technology is currently, technically illegal. This should be addressed....soon....

The other obvious upside of quality satellite tracking adoption by US amd Candian pilots would be the marketing enjoyment of following contest and cross country tasks with far better detail! This could be leveraged into a website for tracking events with live chat or commentary. Now cool would that be! I have do doe this for sailing events and it is great fun for all involved.

O jeez! Now the rules committee is probably calling DeLorme and asks them to disable these features. Damn!!!!

:-)

[Paul Remde]

Hi Ramy,

Your note below is correct.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
_______________________________________

So in sake of deciding how much switching to InReach will actually cost in
annual fee (ignoring the initial cost of the unit which diminishes overtime
comparing to the total cost of few year of subscription) it seems that for
the same annual fee as the Spot service ($150) I can get the aviation
subscription and set it to the same interval as spot (10 min) which will
provide nearly 20 hours per month of tracking, which should be sufficient
for most pilots. Those who fly less may even switch it to higher tracking
rate. And if I understand correct, anyone viewing my shared page can ping me
anytime for real time position. In addition it will provide altitude (very
useful), much better UI and smarphone integration for two way text
messaging, all for the same annual cost as Spot! Did I understand this
correctly? If so, it is almost a no brainer better deal.

Ramy

[Paul Remde]

Hi Eric,

I have a slight correction to your note below. The DeLorme PN-60w does not
work with the inReach for smartphones. There are 2 different versions of
the inReach - one for smartphones and one for the PN-60w. I only plan to
sell the one for use with smartphones.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
___________________________

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ...

On 2/22/2013 9:16 AM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> They can also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the
> mobile app you can read it (note: having your cell phone on board
> during contest flight is currently illegal according to the SSA US
> contest rules:-( )

It's not illegal to carry the phone in the glider. Cheez.

Further, not necessary to have a cell phone to read the text message, as
you can also use an iPad, iPod touch, Android device, or DeLorme PN-60w.

I'm thinking of carrying an iPod Touch anyway, loaded with sectionals
and a flight computer program (to back up my primary computer), and
perhaps as a remote viewer/controller for a video camera mounted on/in
the glider.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Paul Remde]

Hi Sean,

I have one small correction to your note below. It is my understanding that
when your unit is pinged from your shared tracking page the reply is sent
out at the same interval as the unit is setup for tracking. If you have the
tracking interval set to 10 minutes, the ping will get a reply after up to
10 minutes.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
____________________________

"Sean F (F2)" wrote in message
...

Ramy,

You got it! :-). DeLorme InReach appears to be night and day better when
compared to Spot. I never liked Spot to be honest and suspect that many of
you felt the same. It annoyed me how poor and out of date it's website was.
The mobile app was poor. As you can see from my sample track, DeLormes
website is of very high quality. It runs beautifully on PC, Mac, Android
and IOS. I am able to easily access all functions on any device or browser.
The software is well thought out and complete.

Your followers do have the ability (if tracking is forgotten or off) to ping
you at any time and see your location, speed and altitude within 1 min
typically. They do this simply thru the website tracking page. They can
also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the mobile app you
can read it (note: having your cell phone on board during contest flight is
currently illegal according to the SSA US contest rules :-( )

The costs are negligible for the aviation plans (2 min tracking interval)
AND I still want someone to test if the regular plans provide altitude with
10 min updates. I suspect they do provide altitude as well but have not
confirmed.

Sean

[Paul Remde]

Hi Sean,

To answer a question below - Yes - The standard "consumer" plans with 10
minute (or longer) tracking also report altitude, groundspeed and heading.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
___________________________

"Sean F (F2)" wrote in message
...

Ramy,

You got it! :-). DeLorme InReach appears to be night and day better when
compared to Spot. I never liked Spot to be honest and suspect that many of
you felt the same. It annoyed me how poor and out of date it's website was.
The mobile app was poor. As you can see from my sample track, DeLormes
website is of very high quality. It runs beautifully on PC, Mac, Android
and IOS. I am able to easily access all functions on any device or browser.
The software is well thought out and complete.

Your followers do have the ability (if tracking is forgotten or off) to ping
you at any time and see your location, speed and altitude within 1 min
typically. They do this simply thru the website tracking page. They can
also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the mobile app you
can read it (note: having your cell phone on board during contest flight is
currently illegal according to the SSA US contest rules :-( )

The costs are negligible for the aviation plans (2 min tracking interval)
AND I still want someone to test if the regular plans provide altitude with
10 min updates. I suspect they do provide altitude as well but have not
confirmed.

Sean

[[email protected]]

On Friday, February 22, 2013 9:16:32 AM UTC-8, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> Ramy,
>
>
>
> You got it! :-). DeLorme InReach appears to be night and day better when compared to Spot. I never liked Spot to be honest and suspect that many of you felt the same. It annoyed me how poor and out of date it's website was. The mobile app was poor. As you can see from my sample track, DeLormes website is of very high quality. It runs beautifully on PC, Mac, Android and IOS. I am able to easily access all functions on any device or browser. The software is well thought out and complete.
>

Thanks Sean - I'm sold.

I did some analysis of what plan to get - including the $30 change plans fee. Assuming I read the rate card and overage charges correctly - and assuming 6 months of flying versus 6 months of off-season - the most economical approach is as follows:

At a 2 min tracking interval the break-even number of tracking hours per month above which it is cheaper to bump up to Aviation 4 during the flying season versus just sticking to Aviation 1 all year is 15.1 hours per month. Total subscription bill for the year: $310.50

At a 5 minute tracking break-even is 37.8 hours per month. Less than that and you save money by sticking to Aviation 1. Total subscription bill for the year: $310.50 - again.

If you burn it up with a 1 minute interval the break-even is 7.5 hours per month. Total subscription bill: $310.50.

I picked Aviation 4 because it has an overage rate that is less than any other rate - base or overage. That's a strange discontinuity in the pricing - it appears they really want to encourage Aviation 4 for some reason. I assumed an identical number of flight hours per month so if your flying has some heavy and light months it'll be slightly different. I also didn't account for the possibility that you might dial back the tracking interval on heavy flight months. If you did that it would make staying on the Aviation 1 plan even more attractive.

Unless you fly a lot at a high tracking rate it seems to make the most sense to go with the minimum plan and just pay the overages on the months when you fly more. Just make sure to watch your data usage or you will get a nasty surprise.

9B

[Ramy]

On Friday, February 22, 2013 2:17:56 PM UTC-8, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Ramy,
>
>
>
> Your note below is correct.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Paul Remde
>
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> _______________________________________
>
>
>
> So in sake of deciding how much switching to InReach will actually cost in
>
> annual fee (ignoring the initial cost of the unit which diminishes overtime
>
> comparing to the total cost of few year of subscription) it seems that for
>
> the same annual fee as the Spot service ($150) I can get the aviation
>
> subscription and set it to the same interval as spot (10 min) which will
>
> provide nearly 20 hours per month of tracking, which should be sufficient
>
> for most pilots. Those who fly less may even switch it to higher tracking
>
> rate. And if I understand correct, anyone viewing my shared page can ping me
>
> anytime for real time position. In addition it will provide altitude (very
>
> useful), much better UI and smarphone integration for two way text
>
> messaging, all for the same annual cost as Spot! Did I understand this
>
> correctly? If so, it is almost a no brainer better deal.
>
>
>
> Ramy

Hi Paul,

For me, one of the most important features is to be able to be pinged anytime for my exact location at that moment. This will allow me to keep my tracking interval at 10 minutes yet to be able to be tracked instantaneously. As such, I would like to confirm if this is indeed how it works, or, as you suggested, it may only repeat the last track position, in which case it is no difference than the auto tracking feature. Can someone confirm this please?
Also, if I get pinged for my location often, does it eat into my monthly allowance, and if so, how much every ping may cost?
Would be nice if they had a simple low cost fixed plan like Spot, but I guess it is too much to ask...

Ramy

[Paul Remde]

Hi Ramy,

The ping update is the same as the customer set tracking interval. It does
not just send the last track point. It just doesn't send the ping reply
until the next tracking interval comes up.

If you are signed-up for the aviation byte-based plans - every bit of data
sent comes out of your monthly allotment. Each track point and ping is 13
bytes. The 3 pre-defined "inReach" messages are also 13 bytes. Text
messages can be up to 160 bytes - depending on message length.

DeLorme does offer fixed cost plans. They are shown on my web site. If you
want track updates every 10 minutes or more, then the consumer plans make
sense. They include unlimited track points, but limited text messaging.
The recreation plan makes the most sense out of their consumer plans.
http://www.delorme.com/library/hardware/inreach/pdf/inReach_subscription.pdf

I signed-up for their aviation plan. I have it set to the highest plan for
now and will bump it down (using their web site) to the lowest plan during
the off season.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

>
>
>
> Ramy

Hi Paul,

For me, one of the most important features is to be able to be pinged
anytime for my exact location at that moment. This will allow me to keep my
tracking interval at 10 minutes yet to be able to be tracked
instantaneously. As such, I would like to confirm if this is indeed how it
works, or, as you suggested, it may only repeat the last track position, in
which case it is no difference than the auto tracking feature. Can someone
confirm this please?
Also, if I get pinged for my location often, does it eat into my monthly
allowance, and if so, how much every ping may cost?
Would be nice if they had a simple low cost fixed plan like Spot, but I
guess it is too much to ask...

Ramy

[Paul Remde]

Hi Andy,

I just noticed what you pointed out about the overage costs for Aviation
plan 4.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme/inReach-Aviation-Subscriptions.pdf

I suspect that the overage cost of $1.60/kb is a typo. $2.60/kb would fall
nicely between the Aviation 3 and 5 plans. I'll ask them for clarification.
Their aviation plan brochure has not been released on their web site and is
a bit of a work in process.

Thank you for the inReach order.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
__________________________

Thanks Sean - I'm sold.

I did some analysis of what plan to get - including the $30 change plans
fee. Assuming I read the rate card and overage charges correctly - and
assuming 6 months of flying versus 6 months of off-season - the most
economical approach is as follows:

At a 2 min tracking interval the break-even number of tracking hours per
month above which it is cheaper to bump up to Aviation 4 during the flying
season versus just sticking to Aviation 1 all year is 15.1 hours per month.
Total subscription bill for the year: $310.50

At a 5 minute tracking break-even is 37.8 hours per month. Less than that
and you save money by sticking to Aviation 1. Total subscription bill for
the year: $310.50 - again.

If you burn it up with a 1 minute interval the break-even is 7.5 hours per
month. Total subscription bill: $310.50.

I picked Aviation 4 because it has an overage rate that is less than any
other rate - base or overage. That's a strange discontinuity in the
pricing - it appears they really want to encourage Aviation 4 for some
reason. I assumed an identical number of flight hours per month so if your
flying has some heavy and light months it'll be slightly different. I also
didn't account for the possibility that you might dial back the tracking
interval on heavy flight months. If you did that it would make staying on
the Aviation 1 plan even more attractive.

Unless you fly a lot at a high tracking rate it seems to make the most sense
to go with the minimum plan and just pay the overages on the months when you
fly more. Just make sure to watch your data usage or you will get a nasty
surprise.

9B

[[email protected]]

On Friday, February 22, 2013 3:53:04 PM UTC-8, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> I just noticed what you pointed out about the overage costs for Aviation
>
> plan 4.
>
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme/inReach-Aviation-Subscriptions.pdf
>

A typo would make sense Paul. $2.60 would make getting the bigger plan less attractive because you don't save as much versus the cheap plan should you have one month with a ton of overage.


InReach does seem like a great spectator tool at contests. It occurs to me that you should have enough information that with a little computing you would be able to give a continuous readout of who has the best speed at any given point during the task. You could adjust for different start times with some simple normalizing assumptions to account for pilots being at different points along the course due to differences in start time versus differences in rate of progress, and of course adjusting for altitude. I'd bet you could even give continuously updated estimated scores and standings among the pilots carrying an inReach. It would be most entertaining if all of the pilots in contention had a unit on board of course.

Whether you'd want to text each pilot their standing and score in real time over the course of the flight is another matter. ;-)

9B

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 7:46:52 AM UTC-8, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> I have been battling with the Delorme folks a bit and have won a big, big argument with them that I think will benefit some of you.
>
>
>
> The frustration I have had with Spot is its poor website interface, sub standard social app integration and general poor usability. The Spot connect device for example, will not start tracking unless you have cell phone data available when you want to begin tracking. If you do not have data available on your cellphone, no tracking! Additionally, their network offers only position at 10 minute intervals and no altitude.
>
>
>
> Delorme offers 2 minute intervals with altitude!!! These improvements will make tracking soaring flights far more interesting and enjoyable for spectators, crews, family and friends. It will also make it obvious if the aircraft/pilot has landed or crashed (and potentially shorted response time to send help or begin a search). With spot for example you have no idea if the pilot is trying to make a low save over that point where traces are stacking up over time or if they are indeed on the ground. With that, I was very excited when I heard about the SSA's work to utilize the Delorme product into a new tracking capability. The 2 minute updates and altitude alone (along with better software on mobile and web) made the switch an easy decision.
>
>
>
> The only issue, as you might expect, is the higher cost of the Delorme unit and service. The DeLorme InReach unit is $249 (http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme.htm) vs. $150 for the Spot connect or $99 for the older Spot II. 2 aspects of the DeLorme subscription plan where, initially (yesterday), different. With DeLorme, the 2 minute interval for Aviation is considered a "professional" account. This provides upgraded 2 minute update intervals and altitude but comes at a more expensive rate with potential overage charges (bit based). The plans assume a certain number of flying hours per month (6 to 65) and range from $17 - $62 per month. It looks like, for me, the $40 per month (34 hours) would be sufficient for me.
>
>
>
> The second aspect was the real problem. As I called DeLorme yesterday to register my unit and buy the subscription plan, I learned of a business practice which I found revolting. The support person told me that the unit required a special firmware update in order to support the 2 minute transmission schedule (the standard Delorme units use the traditional 10 minute intervals and this is how they come out of the box). The kicker was (wait for it.......) that that firmware upgrade was going to cost me an additional $100. I immediately thought of the complaining my Dad makes about the $99 to $200 per year cost of the Spot subscription plan for his glider. This complaining is not unique in the US soaring community. $40 per month ($480 per year) is alot already, but this "insult to injury" $100 firmware upgrade fee was simply out of bounds. There was little chance that most soaring pilots would pay for this additional capability with a $200+ annual additional cost.
>
>
>
> Needless to say I took the support people on and made a distinct argument as to how ridiculous charging private pilots a $100 fee to use their more expensive service after buying their more expensive unit. I was transferred higher and higher up the chain as each person ran out of energy trying to justify the charge. I cited their own website, press releases and literature which claims all the aviation benefits (2 min, altitude, etc) but makes no mention of a more costly rate plan or firmware charge. Soon I was speaking with the head of marketing and he agreed to take my complaint (and mild threats to publicize the business practice and false advertising) to their executive strategy meeting this morning. After several emails to various Delorme executives last night and this morning, I received the email below.. This email clearly acknowledges the stupidity of charging private pilots (glider pilots, etc) $100 to upgrade the product and explains that from this moment forward, DeLorme has changed its policy worldwide.
>
>
>
> -----
>
> Hello Sean
>
>
>
> Thank you for your reply and interest in the DeLorme inReach.
>
>
>
> I received permission to waive the $100 dollar upgrade in your case! Also in discussions with upper management we will waive this upgrade for any individual pilot. Thank you for your feedback!
>
>
>
> To setup your account, please fill in the attached form and send it in a reply email with the IMEI number of the device and the plan you would like to choose from the Sell Sheet I sent you.
>
>
>
> I would also need your Credit Card information listed below. Please contact our Customer Care department (800.511.2459) and any of my reps. can take this information.
>
> Note: Please do not sent credit card information via email as that is an unsecure method of communication.
>
>
>
> Name on Card:
>
> Type:
>
> Number:
>
> Expiration Date:
>
> Security Code: (on back of card)
>
> Billing address on card (if different from attached form)
>
>
>
> If you have any questions, please reply to this email.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Kurt Ringrose
>
> DeLorme Customer Care Manager
>
> Email-
>
> Phone- 207.846.7112
>
> Fax- 207.847.5112
>
> Many answers can be found at our on-line knowledge base within the link below.
>
> http://support.delorme.com
>
> Latitude 43°48.491' N, Longitude 70°09.844' W
>
> ----
>
>
>
> I will have the my new DeLorme tracker running at Seniors in Florida in a couple weeks and the CC Clinic the week afterwards. Frank Paynter is also using the unit and is working with the SSA to get this higher level of tracking integrated with the SSA website!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Sean
>
> F2

Nice work, Sean. Thanks. Fred

[Bill D]

I'd bet you could even give continuously updated estimated scores and standings among the pilots carrying an inReach. It would be most entertaining if all of the pilots in contention had a unit on board of course.
>
>
>
> Whether you'd want to text each pilot their standing and score in real time over the course of the flight is another matter. ;-)
>
>
>
> 9B

Yea! Electronic leaderboard. I don't know why one wouldn't want to know their relative standing in real time.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 2/22/2013 1:05 PM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> Eric,
>
> Isn't it illegal to utilize outside communications while flying an
> SSA contest? Things such as cell or satellite accessed weather?
> Communicating with outside parties such as ground crew via cell data
> networks? By using the non cell phone devices you mention instead of
> cell enabled devices, as I understand current US SSA rules, you would
> (remember here in the SSA pilots are assumed guilty until proven
> innocent :-)) still have the same (SSA ILLEGAL) ability to exchange
> digital communications with your crew or other outside parties. Or
> imagine having your position relayed every 2 minutes to other pilots
> via sneaky crews, etc. Almost as terrible as the myth of Flarm
> Leeching. :-). FYI you can secure your DeLorme tracking map with a
> simple password...so this is not a big deal.
>
> We are talking about satellite based communications vs. cell phone or
> radio based. Wether or not you use a iPod touch or an data/cell
> enabled iPhone makes very little difference in the application of
> each system. Both are illegal as I understand the rules. I feel
> like Johny English with useless instead of effective gadgets (smart
> phone AH, etc), but illegal gadgets nonetheless.
>
> My point is that the useful, safety aspects of the DeLorme system
> greatly outweighs the dark side cheating risks. Nevertheless this
> technology is currently, technically illegal. This should be
> addressed....soon....
>
> The other obvious upside of quality satellite tracking adoption by US
> amd Candian pilots would be the marketing enjoyment of following
> contest and cross country tasks with far better detail! This could
> be leveraged into a website for tracking events with live chat or
> commentary. Now cool would that be! I have do doe this for sailing
> events and it is great fun for all involved.
>
> O jeez! Now the rules committee is probably calling DeLorme and asks
> them to disable these features. Damn!!!!

When you said "cell phone", I took you literally. The InReach, as you
know, is not a cell phone.

Do the rules prohibit having a communications device other than a com
radio? Or just prohibit the use of the device? Communication with your
crew is allowed via the radio, so it's not clear to me that
communicating with your crew via InReach is prohibited.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

That was copied off the InReach site. I didn't realize there were two
versions. In any case, the smartphone version will work with non-phones
devices like the iPod Touch and iPad.

On 2/22/2013 2:19 PM, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Eric,
>
> I have a slight correction to your note below. The DeLorme PN-60w does
> not work with the inReach for smartphones. There are 2 different
> versions of the inReach - one for smartphones and one for the PN-60w. I
> only plan to sell the one for use with smartphones.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> ___________________________
>
> "Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ...
>
> On 2/22/2013 9:16 AM, Sean F (F2) wrote:
>> They can also very easily send you a text message and IF you have the
>> mobile app you can read it (note: having your cell phone on board
>> during contest flight is currently illegal according to the SSA US
>> contest rules:-( )
>
> It's not illegal to carry the phone in the glider. Cheez.
>
> Further, not necessary to have a cell phone to read the text message, as
> you can also use an iPad, iPod touch, Android device, or DeLorme PN-60w.
>
> I'm thinking of carrying an iPod Touch anyway, loaded with sectionals
> and a flight computer program (to back up my primary computer), and
> perhaps as a remote viewer/controller for a video camera mounted on/in
> the glider.
>


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Sean F (F2)]

Sure would be great I'd it was not illegal to have a useful satellite based tracking system onboard. But based on the recent RC behavior and current rules, I have doubts. It would not surprise me in the slightest to hear complaints AND a rule against this technology...

Tell me I am wrong. Anyone.

Is a dim light starting to flicker in your minds....... Anyone?

Sean
F2

[Sean F (F2)]

Have used the InReach for a few more trips and it has been flawless. Only issue Inhabe is drilling down to detailed information (point data, altitude) on the public map page on an iPhone can be tricky. I have recommended to Delorme an iPhone specific page be created. Seems to work better on larger Android screens.