Of parachutes and things

[ShawnD2112]

Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
the cockpit are major considerations.

Thanks!
Shawn

[Todd Pattist]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote:

>Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
>emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
>seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
>parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
>the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
>appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
>models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
>the cockpit are major considerations.

Glider pilots routinely fly with parachutes. You may also
want to ask in rec.aviation.soaring. I've flown with
National, Butler and Softie. The usual discussion is
whether it fits into the space available in the cockpit. If
you're buying new, talk to a reputable supplier and tell
them your height (for sizing), weight (right
diameter/descent rate) and aircraft type (you want something
that's comfortable in your type of seat.)

Under TSO C23b, which covers most emergency chutes, some
chutes are "low speed category" for under 150 mph aircraft
and some are "standard category" with no limits (but manfr
will usually give some limits.) Some chutes are certified
under TSO C23c which has three categories A,B and C. B is
the minimum you'd want to consider (150 KIAS at a gross
weight of 254 lb.)

Comfort is paramount. I sat in my Softie for a 12.5 hour
flight.


Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

[Dale]

In article <AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>,
"ShawnD2112" > wrote:

> Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
> seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
> the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
> models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
> the cockpit are major considerations.

I wear a parachute for all my flying. I much prefer the Softie to the
Strong rig we have. The Softie comes in many different styles/models.
As far as canopy choice, I want a canopy that is going to work at any
speed I might exit the airplane....as Todd noted that are different
certifcation criteria.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Dudley Henriques]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win...
> Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
contenders
> seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field,
and
> parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for
size in
> the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
European
> models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and
space in
> the cockpit are major considerations.
>
> Thanks!
> Shawn

Shawn;

I take it you're into negative g these days, or at least thinking about
that side of the envelope :-) I'd suggest the Mini Softie. You can get
it with a very comfortable aerobatic harness which doesn't kill you with
the metalwork if you're working the airplane negative.
It should fit into the D cockpit ok unless you've been hanging out at
Mac Donald's too much lately or into that damn "bloomin onion" thing I
ate the other night at the Outback!! Man, you should have seen THAT
thing!!!! :-)) I think they just dip it into a bucket of LDL Cholesterol
and hand it to you!! :-))
Dudley

[m pautz]

ShawnD2112 wrote:
> Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
> seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
> the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
> models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
> the cockpit are major considerations.
>
> Thanks!
> Shawn
>
>
If you buy used, ask the seller for the manufacturing date. Many
riggers will not repack a canopy that is older than 20 years old. Also
check for ADs.

Butler has a very good discusion on parachute selection at:
http://www.butlerparachutes.com/howto.htm

And:
http://www.butlerparachutes.com/PDF/HowToSelect.pdf

You really need to talk to other pitts pilots. If the backpack is too
tall, it could ride up and create problems with the shoulder restraint
straps; that wouldn't be desirable when flying upside down. Here is a
quote from the Butler web page:

"In many aircraft with relatively upright seating (close to 90o, such as
the Citabria, 1-26, etc.), a backpack parachute is usually the best
choice. However, the pack must be long enough to rest on the seat bottom
and support its own weight without dragging on the shoulders of the
wearer. Conversely, it must not be so long that it rides up around the
wearer’s ears and forces the shoulder restraint straps up unnecessarily.

If the pilot desires a back type parachute in an aircraft such as the
Pitts (and similar types like Great Lakes, Skybolt, etc.) with tight
cockpits, relatively upright seating and close clearance between the
pilot’s face and the instrument panel, we generally recommend a back
parachute that is thickest at the bottom and thinnest at the top in
order to keep your face out of the instruments. Of course, the problem
with the thickness at the bottom is that you may begin to run out of leg
room."


For added info, do a search on "tso-c23b" or "tso-c23c"

Marty Pautz
"promote a society that respects its elders; before it is too late."

[Dudley Henriques]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...

Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
Dudley

[justin]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win...
> Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
contenders
> seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
> the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
European
> models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space
in
> the cockpit are major considerations.
>
> Thanks!
> Shawn
>

FWIW, I fly with a Softie seat parachute in my Yak. I don't have any back
room or leg room in the Yak but the seat box is deep. The seat cushion in
the plane is removable and the Softie seat parachute fits perfectly into the
seat box once the seat cushion is removed. The parachute came with a 2-inch
pad which protects the bottom of the parachute from rubbing and also
provides just the right amount of height to sit on. Real comfortable too.

Good luck

justin

[Smutny]

I highly suggest the Paraphenalia Softie with the aerobatic harness.
It gets the hardware out of the way from the restraints. Especailliy
if you put in a ratchet harnes like a Hooker.

Also, you can get the Softie with Aerobatic Harness as either a back
pack or seat pack.

-j-

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:24:10 +0100, "ShawnD2112"
> wrote:

>Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
>emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
>seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
>parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
>the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
>appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
>models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
>the cockpit are major considerations.
>
>Thanks!
>Shawn
>

[EDR]

Butler will work with you on getting the fit correct.
He used to post of one of the groups, but I haven't seen anything from
him for awhile.

[DSowder]

>Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
>emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
>seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
>parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
>the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid.

I'm 6 ft. and 200 lb. I used a "Mini-Softie" backpack in the S1 ("C" fuselage,
"S" wings) that I flew for several years, and was satisfied that it was the
best fit for that airplane.

When I switched to an S-2B, I bought two Wedge Softies (also backpacks), which
are thicker at the bottom than at the top. The S-2B has good legroom, the Wedge
leans me back a bit and I have more distance from face to inst. panel. Again,
the right choice; it's very comfortable, even for 10 hr. flying days.

BUT....the Wedge doesn't work for me in the S-1, because the latter is very
short on legroom. If I were 3 or 4 inches shorter, it would be a different
story, and the Wedge would be OK. It might also be OK in a "long fuselage" S-1S
or T. But I think the D is short.

Some folks like the "chair pack" which has a flap below the butt to help hold
the chute in place during negative G. I don't find any problem with the
straight backpack or the Wedge here, at least not up to -5 g's, which is about
all I ever do.

My Mini Softie had the pelvis-bruising buckles, which I thought were OK, so I
ordered the Wedge's that way. After I started flying serious advanced, the
bleeding started bothering me so at repack time, I had Dan convert my favorite
Wedge to the aerobatic harness. Problem solved.

If you can, borrow chutes from friends to try, or if you are close to a
parachute shop, fly in to visit. Dan at Paraphernalia in Arlington (WA) has
been more than accomodating to me. It's only about 220 NM from home for me, so
stopping in isn't difficult. Go to a nearby contest and you'll find 20 to 50
pilots with every conceivable type of parachute, and they'll probably all be
willing to advise and help. Especially the big ones (pilots, that is)...it's a
battle for all of us!

Doug Sowder

[ShawnD2112]

That's great feedback, everyone. Thanks very much. The problem I have at
the moment is that I live in the UK and don't know of any dealers around
which I could fly to and try several on in the airplane. The Softie with
the aerobatic harness sounds like a good bet, though, based on the comments
here.

Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to drop a line in. Much appreciated.

Shawn
"DSowder" > wrote in message
...
> >Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> >emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
contenders
> >seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> >parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size
in
> >the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid.
>
> I'm 6 ft. and 200 lb. I used a "Mini-Softie" backpack in the S1 ("C"
fuselage,
> "S" wings) that I flew for several years, and was satisfied that it was
the
> best fit for that airplane.
>
> When I switched to an S-2B, I bought two Wedge Softies (also backpacks),
which
> are thicker at the bottom than at the top. The S-2B has good legroom, the
Wedge
> leans me back a bit and I have more distance from face to inst. panel.
Again,
> the right choice; it's very comfortable, even for 10 hr. flying days.
>
> BUT....the Wedge doesn't work for me in the S-1, because the latter is
very
> short on legroom. If I were 3 or 4 inches shorter, it would be a different
> story, and the Wedge would be OK. It might also be OK in a "long fuselage"
S-1S
> or T. But I think the D is short.
>
> Some folks like the "chair pack" which has a flap below the butt to help
hold
> the chute in place during negative G. I don't find any problem with the
> straight backpack or the Wedge here, at least not up to -5 g's, which is
about
> all I ever do.
>
> My Mini Softie had the pelvis-bruising buckles, which I thought were OK,
so I
> ordered the Wedge's that way. After I started flying serious advanced, the
> bleeding started bothering me so at repack time, I had Dan convert my
favorite
> Wedge to the aerobatic harness. Problem solved.
>
> If you can, borrow chutes from friends to try, or if you are close to a
> parachute shop, fly in to visit. Dan at Paraphernalia in Arlington (WA)
has
> been more than accomodating to me. It's only about 220 NM from home for
me, so
> stopping in isn't difficult. Go to a nearby contest and you'll find 20 to
50
> pilots with every conceivable type of parachute, and they'll probably all
be
> willing to advise and help. Especially the big ones (pilots, that
is)...it's a
> battle for all of us!
>
> Doug Sowder

[Martin Hellman]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message news:<AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>...
> Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D.

I fly a motor glider with a Paraphenalia Softie, with the "diaper
packed at the bottom" which is how my rigger calls packing it fatter
at the bottom and thinner at the top (as mentioned by an earlier
poster).

As others have recommended, talking to other Pitts owners is clearly a
good move, making sure to compare body sizes. Maybe one of them will
even lend you his chute to try out, on the ground at a minimum.

Other thoughts: My rigger installed an air bladder in the lower back
area that I can pump up for lower back support. Highly recommended. I
pump it, leave it for a while and release the pressure. A kind of slow
massage that seems to keep my back from getting stiff from being in
one position for many hours. Probably less of an issue in aerobatic
flying than soaring since you'll probably run out of fuel before your
back gets sore.

If you're in the San Francisco area -- and maybe even if you're not --
you ought to try Silver Parachute Sales. Alan Silver runs it and is an
excellent rigger who will treat you right both on initial sale and
repacking. He's based near the Hayward airport, just across the bay
from SFO. I know lots of glider pilots who send him their chutes for
repacking even though there are other, closer riggers. His telephone
is 510-785-7070.

Hope this helps and have fun with the Pitts.

Martin

[Doug Carter]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message news:<AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>...
> Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D.

I've bought two new Butler seat packs four years ago that I use in my
S2-C. Happy with them. Would buy them again.

Doug Carter

[ShawnD2112]

How well do the seat packs work in the Pitts? While I have a cushion or two
under me, I didn't think there would be enough room for a seatpack chute.
Obviously I was wrong?

Cheers,
Shawn
"Doug Carter" > wrote in message
om...
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
news:<AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>...
> > Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> > emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D.
>
> I've bought two new Butler seat packs four years ago that I use in my
> S2-C. Happy with them. Would buy them again.
>
> Doug Carter

[ShawnD2112]

Dudley,
Sound advice.

Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I get
some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it out
(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of guys
don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the canopy,
exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting the
ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely fly
high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to get
that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a chute
was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.

Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly to
deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.

Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
> one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
> out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
> half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
> back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
> Dudley
>
>

[Doug Carter]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message >...
> How well do the seat packs work in the Pitts? While I have a cushion or two
> under me, I didn't think there would be enough room for a seatpack chute.
> Obviously I was wrong?

I have three cushions, 1", 2" & 4" thick for each seat bottom (as well
as 1" & 2" back cushions). Combination used depends on pilot height.
I'm 5' 11" and use the 1" in the back seat. Note that the back seat
has the least head room; you can jack up a little higher in the
front.

The advantage of the seat pack is that it keeps you further from the
panel. The panel is a bit close (for me) to begin with.

In the Decathlon I used a back pack with no cushion behind it.
Different seat geometry. In the Yak I used seat packs; they have a
bucket for that.

Hope this helps...

Doug Carter
Pitts S2-C.

p.s. All my friends with S1-S & S1-T single seaters use seat packs as
well. dc

[Guenther Eichhorn]

I think that practicing aerobatics below 2000' is not really a good idea. A
good friend of mine got killed when he messed up a hammerhead that he started at
1500'. When I practice new maneuvers, I want to be at 4000' to 5000', higher
if they are spins.

As far as the minimum altitude for chute opening is concerned, I believe that
you can get your chute open fromless than 1000', how much less depends on the
circumstances.

Guenther
----------------------------------------------------
Guenther Eichhorn |
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA
CPL,ASMELS,Glider,LBH,IA,CFI | Pitts S-2A: N1GE
DC-3 type rating | Flying is the Pitts
http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO


In article >,
"ShawnD2112" > writes:
>Dudley,
>Sound advice.
>
>Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
>bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I get
>some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
>things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
>mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
>always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
>someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
>idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
>The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
>started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it out
>(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of guys
>don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the canopy,
>exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting the
>ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
>andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
>maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely fly
>high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to get
>that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a chute
>was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.
>
>Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
>unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
>misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
>case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly to
>deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.
>
>Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.
>
>Cheers,
>Shawn
>"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
link.net...
>>
>> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>
>> Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
>> one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
>> out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
>> half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
>> back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
>> Dudley
>>
>>
>
>

[ShawnD2112]

Guenther,
Sorry to hear about your friend, and I appreciate where your advice is
coming from. I agree with you on practicing new maneuvers but when you're
practicing for a competition you have to be able to get your positioning
right. Competition floor in the UK ast Standard level is 1000 ft.

Shawn
"Guenther Eichhorn" > wrote in message
...
> I think that practicing aerobatics below 2000' is not really a good idea.
A
> good friend of mine got killed when he messed up a hammerhead that he
started at
> 1500'. When I practice new maneuvers, I want to be at 4000' to 5000',
higher
> if they are spins.
>
> As far as the minimum altitude for chute opening is concerned, I believe
that
> you can get your chute open fromless than 1000', how much less depends on
the
> circumstances.
>
> Guenther
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Guenther Eichhorn |
> Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA
> CPL,ASMELS,Glider,LBH,IA,CFI | Pitts S-2A: N1GE
> DC-3 type rating | Flying is the Pitts
> http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO
>
>
> In article >,
> "ShawnD2112" > writes:
> >Dudley,
> >Sound advice.
> >
> >Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
> >bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I
get
> >some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
> >things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
> >mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
> >always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
> >someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
> >idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
> >The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
> >started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it
out
> >(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of
guys
> >don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the
canopy,
> >exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting
the
> >ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
> >andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
> >maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely
fly
> >high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to
get
> >that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a
chute
> >was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.
> >
> >Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
> >unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
> >misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
> >case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly
to
> >deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.
> >
> >Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Shawn
> >"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >>
> >> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> >> ink.net...
> >>
> >> Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
> >> one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
> >> out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
> >> half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
> >> back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
> >> Dudley
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

[dave]

I've been looking for a chute for my citabria - 7ECA. I spoke to Alan
Silver yesterday. He was very nice and explained alot to me about
chutes in the citabria. I'll need to modify my seat back to use a
backpack chute but it sounds worth it.

Some of you may have seen the ad's of pilot standing next to a
demolished citabria. He barely made it out. Alan told me that he had
trouble getting the door off. He pulled the hinger pins successfully
but didn't realize that he needed to push the bottom of the door out to
get it into the slip stream where it will be blown back. According to
Alan the guy had chosen to practice at around 6500AGL. He struggled
with the door for so long that if he had been even a few hundred feet
lower, he might not have made it. Scarey.

The reason he needed to get out was because part of the rear seat came
foward and fouled the rear stick.

I hope I got that story straight.

Dave
7ECA

Martin Hellman wrote:
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message news:<AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>...
>
>>Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
>>emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D.
>
>
> I fly a motor glider with a Paraphenalia Softie, with the "diaper
> packed at the bottom" which is how my rigger calls packing it fatter
> at the bottom and thinner at the top (as mentioned by an earlier
> poster).
>
> As others have recommended, talking to other Pitts owners is clearly a
> good move, making sure to compare body sizes. Maybe one of them will
> even lend you his chute to try out, on the ground at a minimum.
>
> Other thoughts: My rigger installed an air bladder in the lower back
> area that I can pump up for lower back support. Highly recommended. I
> pump it, leave it for a while and release the pressure. A kind of slow
> massage that seems to keep my back from getting stiff from being in
> one position for many hours. Probably less of an issue in aerobatic
> flying than soaring since you'll probably run out of fuel before your
> back gets sore.
>
> If you're in the San Francisco area -- and maybe even if you're not --
> you ought to try Silver Parachute Sales. Alan Silver runs it and is an
> excellent rigger who will treat you right both on initial sale and
> repacking. He's based near the Hayward airport, just across the bay
> from SFO. I know lots of glider pilots who send him their chutes for
> repacking even though there are other, closer riggers. His telephone
> is 510-785-7070.
>
> Hope this helps and have fun with the Pitts.
>
> Martin

[Guenther Eichhorn]

Yes, of course for a competition you practice lower (even though I personally still don't go
below 2000', because of noise concerns as much as because of safety concernsS). From your
post I assumed that you were new to the Pitts (you said " When I first started flying the
Pitts... "), which would mean that the maneuvers are new for you.

Guenther

In article >,
"ShawnD2112" > writes:
>Guenther,
>Sorry to hear about your friend, and I appreciate where your advice is
>coming from. I agree with you on practicing new maneuvers but when you're
>practicing for a competition you have to be able to get your positioning
>right. Competition floor in the UK ast Standard level is 1000 ft.
>
>Shawn
>"Guenther Eichhorn" > wrote in message
...
>> I think that practicing aerobatics below 2000' is not really a good idea.
>A
>> good friend of mine got killed when he messed up a hammerhead that he
>started at
>> 1500'. When I practice new maneuvers, I want to be at 4000' to 5000',
>higher
>> if they are spins.
>>
>> As far as the minimum altitude for chute opening is concerned, I believe
>that
>> you can get your chute open fromless than 1000', how much less depends on
>the
>> circumstances.
>>
>> Guenther
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Guenther Eichhorn |
>> Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA
>> CPL,ASMELS,Glider,LBH,IA,CFI | Pitts S-2A: N1GE
>> DC-3 type rating | Flying is the Pitts
>> http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO
>>
>>
>> In article >,
>> "ShawnD2112" > writes:
>> >Dudley,
>> >Sound advice.
>> >
>> >Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've done a
>> >bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until I
>get
>> >some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were two
>> >things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with a
>> >mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training, there's
>> >always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane touching
>> >someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a good
>> >idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
>> >The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I first
>> >started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled it
>out
>> >(they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of
>guys
>> >don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the
>canopy,
>> >exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before hitting
>the
>> >ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
>> >andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
>> >maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I rarely
>fly
>> >high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to
>get
>> >that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a
>chute
>> >was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.
>> >
>> >Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
>> >unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
>> >misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this is a
>> >case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems silly
>to
>> >deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the hangar.
>> >
>> >Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call tonight.
>> >
>> >Cheers,
>> >Shawn
>> >"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
>> link.net...
>> >>
>> >> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
>> >> ink.net...
>> >>
>> >> Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at least
>> >> one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take it
>> >> out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted. Do a
>> >> half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on your
>> >> back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
>> >> Dudley
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
>

[Dudley Henriques]

About the negative stuff; the only reason I mentioned it was for you to
make sure whatever harness you bought was comfortable on the negative
side of things. The aerobatic harness is usually much more comfortable
in this respect.
One thing to keep in mind if you're going to be doing formation in a
Pitts, and unfortunately it's not a very pleasant thought :-) Remember,
if you DO make hard contact and have a wing failure, the flying wires
will probably hold on the top wing and the wing will literally beat you
to death before you can get out....so don't get too close!! :-))
Dudley
"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
...
> Dudley,
> Sound advice.
>
> Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've
done a
> bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until
I get
> some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were
two
> things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with
a
> mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training,
there's
> always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane
touching
> someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a
good
> idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
> The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I
first
> started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled
it out
> (they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of
guys
> don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the
canopy,
> exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before
hitting the
> ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
> andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
> maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I
rarely fly
> high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to
get
> that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a
chute
> was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.
>
> Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
> unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
> misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this
is a
> case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems
silly to
> deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the
hangar.
>
> Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call
tonight.
>
> Cheers,
> Shawn
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> >
> > Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at
least
> > one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take
it
> > out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted.
Do a
> > half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on
your
> > back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
> > Dudley
> >
> >
>
>

[ShawnD2112]

Cheers, Dudley. As if I didn't have enough things to worry about!!

Spent Sunday briefing and doing a small bit of formation work with a former
Red Arrow pilot. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, as least my log book will
show that I flew in formation with a former Red Arrow! I couldn't get the
grin off my face while it was happening. I think I'm going to enjoy working
with this guy! We went through a lengthy brief down at the local pub (where
all briefings should be held, if you ask me - very civilized approach to
flying, that!) where we discussed my mate's and my intentions, background,
and set out our stall together. We put together a basic framework of our
work then went into the details of safe formation flying to include
communications, formation placement, joinup and break basics, essentially
all the safety and practical issues associated with the business.
Thoroughly enjoyed it and it was a lot to take in. Some of it we knew, most
of it we didn't and even the stuff we knew we weren't entirely sure how to
apply. Talking to a guy who does it for a living (he still flies Jags) was
an eye-opening and extremely motivating experience.

On the parachute side, have decided on a Softie after talking to thier man,
Jim, for quite a while last week. He's going to make up a seat pack rig for
me with an aerobatic harness, based on your advice about the location of the
hardware (thanks for that, by the way)

It's also become time to replace the surplus bag I've been wearing for 3
years. I've looked at Flightsuits in California but are there any other
shops where guys in the community tend to go for good quality and good
prices? Any tips, as with the parachute advice, greatly appreciated!

Hope you had a good 4th weekend!

Cheers,
Shawn

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> About the negative stuff; the only reason I mentioned it was for you to
> make sure whatever harness you bought was comfortable on the negative
> side of things. The aerobatic harness is usually much more comfortable
> in this respect.
> One thing to keep in mind if you're going to be doing formation in a
> Pitts, and unfortunately it's not a very pleasant thought :-) Remember,
> if you DO make hard contact and have a wing failure, the flying wires
> will probably hold on the top wing and the wing will literally beat you
> to death before you can get out....so don't get too close!! :-))
> Dudley
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dudley,
> > Sound advice.
> >
> > Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've
> done a
> > bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff until
> I get
> > some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide were
> two
> > things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work with
> a
> > mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training,
> there's
> > always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane
> touching
> > someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a
> good
> > idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
> > The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When I
> first
> > started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially ruled
> it out
> > (they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a lot of
> guys
> > don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open the
> canopy,
> > exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before
> hitting the
> > ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
> > andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of aerobatic
> > maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I
> rarely fly
> > high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being able to
> get
> > that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I thought a
> chute
> > was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.
> >
> > Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself with an
> > unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all that
> > misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess this
> is a
> > case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems
> silly to
> > deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the
> hangar.
> >
> > Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call
> tonight.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Shawn
> > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> > link.net...
> > >
> > > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > >
> > > Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make at
> least
> > > one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either. Take
> it
> > > out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially inverted.
> Do a
> > > half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it on
> your
> > > back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
> > > Dudley
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Dudley Henriques]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
...
> Cheers, Dudley. As if I didn't have enough things to worry about!!
>
> Spent Sunday briefing and doing a small bit of formation work with a
former
> Red Arrow pilot. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, as least my log book
will
> show that I flew in formation with a former Red Arrow! I couldn't get
the
> grin off my face while it was happening. I think I'm going to enjoy
working
> with this guy! We went through a lengthy brief down at the local pub
(where
> all briefings should be held, if you ask me - very civilized approach
to
> flying, that!) where we discussed my mate's and my intentions,
background,
> and set out our stall together. We put together a basic framework of
our
> work then went into the details of safe formation flying to include
> communications, formation placement, joinup and break basics,
essentially
> all the safety and practical issues associated with the business.
> Thoroughly enjoyed it and it was a lot to take in. Some of it we
knew, most
> of it we didn't and even the stuff we knew we weren't entirely sure
how to
> apply. Talking to a guy who does it for a living (he still flies
Jags) was
> an eye-opening and extremely motivating experience.
>
> On the parachute side, have decided on a Softie after talking to thier
man,
> Jim, for quite a while last week. He's going to make up a seat pack
rig for
> me with an aerobatic harness, based on your advice about the location
of the
> hardware (thanks for that, by the way)
>
> It's also become time to replace the surplus bag I've been wearing for
3
> years. I've looked at Flightsuits in California but are there any
other
> shops where guys in the community tend to go for good quality and good
> prices? Any tips, as with the parachute advice, greatly appreciated!
>
> Hope you had a good 4th weekend!
>
> Cheers,
> Shawn
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > About the negative stuff; the only reason I mentioned it was for you
to
> > make sure whatever harness you bought was comfortable on the
negative
> > side of things. The aerobatic harness is usually much more
comfortable
> > in this respect.
> > One thing to keep in mind if you're going to be doing formation in a
> > Pitts, and unfortunately it's not a very pleasant thought :-)
Remember,
> > if you DO make hard contact and have a wing failure, the flying
wires
> > will probably hold on the top wing and the wing will literally beat
you
> > to death before you can get out....so don't get too close!! :-))
> > Dudley
> > "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Dudley,
> > > Sound advice.
> > >
> > > Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've
> > done a
> > > bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff
until
> > I get
> > > some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide
were
> > two
> > > things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work
with
> > a
> > > mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training,
> > there's
> > > always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane
> > touching
> > > someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a
> > good
> > > idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
> > > The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When
I
> > first
> > > started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially
ruled
> > it out
> > > (they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a
lot of
> > guys
> > > don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open
the
> > canopy,
> > > exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before
> > hitting the
> > > ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
> > > andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of
aerobatic
> > > maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I
> > rarely fly
> > > high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being
able to
> > get
> > > that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I
thought a
> > chute
> > > was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.
> > >
> > > Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself
with an
> > > unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all
that
> > > misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess
this
> > is a
> > > case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems
> > silly to
> > > deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the
> > hangar.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call
> > tonight.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Shawn
> > > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> > > link.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> > > > ink.net...
> > > >
> > > > Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make
at
> > least
> > > > one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either.
Take
> > it
> > > > out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially
inverted.
> > Do a
> > > > half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it
on
> > your
> > > > back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
> > > > Dudley

I thought that little "tidbit" about the flying wires would get a Grin
out of you!! :-) It's true though. Getting out of a Pitts after an
upper wing failure is REAL serious stuff!!
Anyway, it's funny you should mention having a briefing at a pub.
Believe it or not, when we were on the display circuit way back when,
almost all of the pilots would get together late at night in some diner
or bar somewhere and hash over programs and routine changes. I remember
spending an entire all nighter one weekend at a diner in Falls Church
Virginia with Art Scholl and two of the Thunderbirds. We were working on
Art's inverted ribbon pickup in the Chipmunk. He wanted to make some
changes and enter it from a modified tailslide. We worked it all out
after eating about a dozen hamburgers washed down with copious amounts
of coffee.
He did it the "new way" the next afternoon.
About the flight suit; you can get them made up custom, which might not
be a bad idea. Be careful about the material. Nomex is an option, but
you might not be as prone to a cockpit fire as I was in a P51 or a
Bearcat! :-) I remember damn near roasting to death in my flight suit.
All of your display flying will probably be done in the summer when it's
hot as heel out on those wide open concrete ramps...not to mention
cramped up in the Pitts cockpit :-)
I'd opt for something "cool" in a flight suit.
Where to get a good one is a toss up really. My wife made mine up for
me. You might want to contact the Arrows and find out who makes theirs,
or give Ray Hanna a call. Almost anyone in the business will have a
handle on who's doing the custom work these days in flight suits.
It's funny. I remember there was a lady in Pensacola who used to do all
the sewing on the Blue Angel flightsuits for the team. Man, was SHE one
busy lady!!! :-)
I'm sure you can come up with something over there. As I said, the best
place to get information on things like this is right inside the
community itself. Don't be shy! Call um!! :-)))
Dudley

[ShawnD2112]

"Hot as hell in the summer"??? You've not spent much time over here in the
UK, have you, Dudley? It briefly (and I mean for a couple of hours) got to
100 degrees F one August day last year and that was the hottest temperature
ever recorded in the UK. The Brits didn't know what to do with themselves
in the heat! It rarely gets much above 85 even in the dead of summer so
that kind of overheating issue isn't really a problem here. I've currently
got a lightweight Nomex surplus USAF suit, and I'd like to duplicate it, but
it desert sand to match my airplane. While fire may not be as great a
threat in the Pitts, that fuel tank sitting right over your legs tends to
put thoughts into one's head. Good tip about asking the community. Most
guys around here seem to wear surplus RAF suits.

Anyway, off to work in glorious sunshine. It's a real effort not to call in
sick and go fly today!

Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Cheers, Dudley. As if I didn't have enough things to worry about!!
> >
> > Spent Sunday briefing and doing a small bit of formation work with a
> former
> > Red Arrow pilot. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, as least my log book
> will
> > show that I flew in formation with a former Red Arrow! I couldn't get
> the
> > grin off my face while it was happening. I think I'm going to enjoy
> working
> > with this guy! We went through a lengthy brief down at the local pub
> (where
> > all briefings should be held, if you ask me - very civilized approach
> to
> > flying, that!) where we discussed my mate's and my intentions,
> background,
> > and set out our stall together. We put together a basic framework of
> our
> > work then went into the details of safe formation flying to include
> > communications, formation placement, joinup and break basics,
> essentially
> > all the safety and practical issues associated with the business.
> > Thoroughly enjoyed it and it was a lot to take in. Some of it we
> knew, most
> > of it we didn't and even the stuff we knew we weren't entirely sure
> how to
> > apply. Talking to a guy who does it for a living (he still flies
> Jags) was
> > an eye-opening and extremely motivating experience.
> >
> > On the parachute side, have decided on a Softie after talking to thier
> man,
> > Jim, for quite a while last week. He's going to make up a seat pack
> rig for
> > me with an aerobatic harness, based on your advice about the location
> of the
> > hardware (thanks for that, by the way)
> >
> > It's also become time to replace the surplus bag I've been wearing for
> 3
> > years. I've looked at Flightsuits in California but are there any
> other
> > shops where guys in the community tend to go for good quality and good
> > prices? Any tips, as with the parachute advice, greatly appreciated!
> >
> > Hope you had a good 4th weekend!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Shawn
> >
> > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > About the negative stuff; the only reason I mentioned it was for you
> to
> > > make sure whatever harness you bought was comfortable on the
> negative
> > > side of things. The aerobatic harness is usually much more
> comfortable
> > > in this respect.
> > > One thing to keep in mind if you're going to be doing formation in a
> > > Pitts, and unfortunately it's not a very pleasant thought :-)
> Remember,
> > > if you DO make hard contact and have a wing failure, the flying
> wires
> > > will probably hold on the top wing and the wing will literally beat
> you
> > > to death before you can get out....so don't get too close!! :-))
> > > Dudley
> > > "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Dudley,
> > > > Sound advice.
> > > >
> > > > Negative stuff isn't the reason I've decided to get a chute. I've
> > > done a
> > > > bit of negative but I'm staying away from any of the real stuff
> until
> > > I get
> > > > some inverted spin training. No, what's really made me decide
> were
> > > two
> > > > things. One is that I've started doing some basic formation work
> with
> > > a
> > > > mate. While we're taking it slow and investing in some training,
> > > there's
> > > > always the risk of something going wrong and someone's airplane
> > > touching
> > > > someone else's. It's that scenario that makes a chute seem like a
> > > good
> > > > idea. I've also got a bit of a phobia about fire in the cockpit.
> > > > The other thing was a long term re-evaluation of the risks. When
> I
> > > first
> > > > started flying the Pitts, I thought about a chute but initially
> ruled
> > > it out
> > > > (they're not required for aerobatics in the UK, and, in fact, a
> lot of
> > > guys
> > > > don't wear them). I ruled it out because I figured that to open
> the
> > > canopy,
> > > > exit the aircraft, deploy the chute, and get one swing in before
> > > hitting the
> > > > ground, I'd need to be about 2,000 feet up. Well, when competing
> > > > andpracticing, I only ever got up that high at the tops of
> aerobatic
> > > > maneuvers, not during the bulk of my flying. So, I figured, if I
> > > rarely fly
> > > > high enough for a chute to work, what are the chances of being
> able to
> > > get
> > > > that altitude if I needed it? Pretty slim, I reckoned, so I
> thought a
> > > chute
> > > > was a comfort factor more than a real safety option.
> > > >
> > > > Now, that all said, I'd feel like a real tit if I found myself
> with an
> > > > unflyable airplane and no means to get out of it. So screw all
> that
> > > > misguided analysis above, I'm getting a bailout chute. I guess
> this
> > > is a
> > > > case of experience and age teaching one a bit of wisdom? It seems
> > > silly to
> > > > deny myself an option based on some flawed logic applied in the
> > > hangar.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the tip on the Softie. I'm going to give them a call
> > > tonight.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Shawn
> > > > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> > > > link.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> > > > > ink.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > Forgot to tell you. Whatever you buy, try it on first and make
> at
> > > least
> > > > > one flight in it with the Pitts. Don't baby the flight either.
> Take
> > > it
> > > > > out sustained both ways and see how it feels, especially
> inverted.
> > > Do a
> > > > > half roll, stabilize there and just hang for a bit and feel it
> on
> > > your
> > > > > back. You'll know if it's going to do the job for you.
> > > > > Dudley
>
> I thought that little "tidbit" about the flying wires would get a Grin
> out of you!! :-) It's true though. Getting out of a Pitts after an
> upper wing failure is REAL serious stuff!!
> Anyway, it's funny you should mention having a briefing at a pub.
> Believe it or not, when we were on the display circuit way back when,
> almost all of the pilots would get together late at night in some diner
> or bar somewhere and hash over programs and routine changes. I remember
> spending an entire all nighter one weekend at a diner in Falls Church
> Virginia with Art Scholl and two of the Thunderbirds. We were working on
> Art's inverted ribbon pickup in the Chipmunk. He wanted to make some
> changes and enter it from a modified tailslide. We worked it all out
> after eating about a dozen hamburgers washed down with copious amounts
> of coffee.
> He did it the "new way" the next afternoon.
> About the flight suit; you can get them made up custom, which might not
> be a bad idea. Be careful about the material. Nomex is an option, but
> you might not be as prone to a cockpit fire as I was in a P51 or a
> Bearcat! :-) I remember damn near roasting to death in my flight suit.
> All of your display flying will probably be done in the summer when it's
> hot as heel out on those wide open concrete ramps...not to mention
> cramped up in the Pitts cockpit :-)
> I'd opt for something "cool" in a flight suit.
> Where to get a good one is a toss up really. My wife made mine up for
> me. You might want to contact the Arrows and find out who makes theirs,
> or give Ray Hanna a call. Almost anyone in the business will have a
> handle on who's doing the custom work these days in flight suits.
> It's funny. I remember there was a lady in Pensacola who used to do all
> the sewing on the Blue Angel flightsuits for the team. Man, was SHE one
> busy lady!!! :-)
> I'm sure you can come up with something over there. As I said, the best
> place to get information on things like this is right inside the
> community itself. Don't be shy! Call um!! :-)))
> Dudley
>
>

[Dudley Henriques]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
...
> "Hot as hell in the summer"??? You've not spent much time over here
in the
> UK, have you, Dudley? It briefly (and I mean for a couple of hours)
got to
> 100 degrees F one August day last year and that was the hottest
temperature
> ever recorded in the UK. The Brits didn't know what to do with
themselves
> in the heat!

I keep forgetting you're over THERE :-))))

Anyway, good luck with the flight suit. When you pick the color,
remember on the display circuit, you're eating on the fly most of the
time and that mustard from those damn hot dogs can really stain you up
in a hurry. No matter how hard you try, you always seem to end up with a
large blotch on you just about the time kids are lining up to get an
autograph :-)))
Dudley

[Paul Sengupta]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Hot as hell in the summer"??? You've not spent much time over here
> in the
> > UK, have you, Dudley?

> I keep forgetting you're over THERE :-))))
>
> Anyway, good luck with the flight suit. When you pick the color,
> remember on the display circuit, you're eating on the fly most of the
> time and that mustard from those damn hot dogs can really stain you up
> in a hurry. No matter how hard you try, you always seem to end up with a
> large blotch on you just about the time kids are lining up to get an
> autograph :-)))

We don't have hot dogs either. And I think the Red Arrows would
complain if you wore a copy of their red flight suits to catch the ketchup
from the bacon sandwich.

You could put on a brown one and use HP sauce.

Or a yellow one and have a bacon and egg sandwich without the
sauce.

Paul

[Ernest C. Byars]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message news:<AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>...
> Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders
> seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
> the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European
> models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in
> the cockpit are major considerations.
>
> Thanks!
> Shawn

Shawn,

I just bought a softie chute for my Pitts S1C. It is a special one
made for the Pitts S1. It is a seatpack in the shape of a wedge. Its
not listed on their web site but they will make you one. I'm a big guy
and the S1C is the smallest Pitts. If it works for me in my plane it
should work for you in yours. Call Dan or Jim at Parapania and ask
about it.

Good Luck,
Ernie

[ShawnD2112]

Ernie,
I think Jim was telling me about you. He mentioned making one special for a
C when I spoke to him last week. He suggested I go for a seatpack since I'm
sitting on about 4" of cushion at the moment. Only being 5 10" I've got a
bit of headroom to play with. Which harness rig did you go for? How
satisfied were you with their customer service? How comfortable is your rig
during aerobatics?

Thanks for the tips,
Shawn
"Ernest C. Byars" > wrote in message
om...
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
news:<AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>...
> > Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> > emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
contenders
> > seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> > parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size
in
> > the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> > appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
European
> > models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space
in
> > the cockpit are major considerations.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Shawn
>
> Shawn,
>
> I just bought a softie chute for my Pitts S1C. It is a special one
> made for the Pitts S1. It is a seatpack in the shape of a wedge. Its
> not listed on their web site but they will make you one. I'm a big guy
> and the S1C is the smallest Pitts. If it works for me in my plane it
> should work for you in yours. Call Dan or Jim at Parapania and ask
> about it.
>
> Good Luck,
> Ernie

[Ernest C. Byars]

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message >...
> Ernie,
> I think Jim was telling me about you. He mentioned making one special for a
> C when I spoke to him last week. He suggested I go for a seatpack since I'm
> sitting on about 4" of cushion at the moment. Only being 5 10" I've got a
> bit of headroom to play with. Which harness rig did you go for? How
> satisfied were you with their customer service? How comfortable is your rig
> during aerobatics?
>
> Thanks for the tips,
> Shawn
> "Ernest C. Byars" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> news:<AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>...
> > > Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> > > emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
> contenders
> > > seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> > > parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size
> in
> > > the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> > > appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
> European
> > > models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space
> in
> > > the cockpit are major considerations.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Shawn
> >
> > Shawn,
> >
> > I just bought a softie chute for my Pitts S1C. It is a special one
> > made for the Pitts S1. It is a seatpack in the shape of a wedge. Its
> > not listed on their web site but they will make you one. I'm a big guy
> > and the S1C is the smallest Pitts. If it works for me in my plane it
> > should work for you in yours. Call Dan or Jim at Parapania and ask
> > about it.
> >
> > Good Luck,
> > Ernie

Shawn,

I am very satisfied with their service. Dan said he would take the
chute back if I was not happy with it. I don't think you will find
much better service than that. If you can use a 4" cushion you won't
have a problem. I was sitting on a 2" cushion before. With the wedge
seat pack I can even move it foreword to sit lower than a 2" cushion.
My plane is open cockpit so if I sit too high I am out in the
slipstream. If you have a canopy you should be able to sit higher than
me. I am 5' 11" so that gives you another inch to work with. You may
not even need the wedge option. I like the wedge because I can adjust
my height in the cockpit by moving the chute foreword or back. I went
for the standard harness instead of the aerobatic harness. I asked Jim
this question. What is the disadvantage of the aerobatic harness? His
answer, the disadvantage of the aerobatic harness vs. the normal is it
takes more time to put the aerobatic harness on. The plus is the
normal harness may be uncomfortable during extended negative G
maneuvers if your seat belts go across the quick releases. Negative G
maneuvers may cause the quick releases to press hard into your thighs
causing pain or even bruises. My seatbelts did not interfere with the
quick releases so I opted for the standard harness. They provided me a
chute to try out before purchase. I initially wanted the aerobatic
harness but the standard harness was comfortable. So I ordered the
standard one. I don't think a chute will ever be as comfortable as a
cushion though. But the added safety factor is a real plus when you
are doing maneuvers for the first time or in the event of an airframe
failure. I hope I have answered some of your questions. If I can be of
more help please let me know.

Ernie

[ShawnD2112]

You certainly have answered some questions for me, Ernie. Thanks very much.
I wish I could try one on before buying but being in the UK makes it a bit
inconvenient. However, Jim said they'd keep working until I was happy, no
matter how many times I had to send it back to them for refitting or
whatever. You can't argue with a deal like that.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Ernest C. Byars" > wrote in message
om...
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
>...
> > Ernie,
> > I think Jim was telling me about you. He mentioned making one special
for a
> > C when I spoke to him last week. He suggested I go for a seatpack since
I'm
> > sitting on about 4" of cushion at the moment. Only being 5 10" I've got
a
> > bit of headroom to play with. Which harness rig did you go for? How
> > satisfied were you with their customer service? How comfortable is your
rig
> > during aerobatics?
> >
> > Thanks for the tips,
> > Shawn
> > "Ernest C. Byars" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> > news:<AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win>...
> > > > Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> > > > emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
> > contenders
> > > > seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field,
and
> > > > parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for
size
> > in
> > > > the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid.
I'd
> > > > appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
> > European
> > > > models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and
space
> > in
> > > > the cockpit are major considerations.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > Shawn
> > >
> > > Shawn,
> > >
> > > I just bought a softie chute for my Pitts S1C. It is a special one
> > > made for the Pitts S1. It is a seatpack in the shape of a wedge. Its
> > > not listed on their web site but they will make you one. I'm a big guy
> > > and the S1C is the smallest Pitts. If it works for me in my plane it
> > > should work for you in yours. Call Dan or Jim at Parapania and ask
> > > about it.
> > >
> > > Good Luck,
> > > Ernie
>
> Shawn,
>
> I am very satisfied with their service. Dan said he would take the
> chute back if I was not happy with it. I don't think you will find
> much better service than that. If you can use a 4" cushion you won't
> have a problem. I was sitting on a 2" cushion before. With the wedge
> seat pack I can even move it foreword to sit lower than a 2" cushion.
> My plane is open cockpit so if I sit too high I am out in the
> slipstream. If you have a canopy you should be able to sit higher than
> me. I am 5' 11" so that gives you another inch to work with. You may
> not even need the wedge option. I like the wedge because I can adjust
> my height in the cockpit by moving the chute foreword or back. I went
> for the standard harness instead of the aerobatic harness. I asked Jim
> this question. What is the disadvantage of the aerobatic harness? His
> answer, the disadvantage of the aerobatic harness vs. the normal is it
> takes more time to put the aerobatic harness on. The plus is the
> normal harness may be uncomfortable during extended negative G
> maneuvers if your seat belts go across the quick releases. Negative G
> maneuvers may cause the quick releases to press hard into your thighs
> causing pain or even bruises. My seatbelts did not interfere with the
> quick releases so I opted for the standard harness. They provided me a
> chute to try out before purchase. I initially wanted the aerobatic
> harness but the standard harness was comfortable. So I ordered the
> standard one. I don't think a chute will ever be as comfortable as a
> cushion though. But the added safety factor is a real plus when you
> are doing maneuvers for the first time or in the event of an airframe
> failure. I hope I have answered some of your questions. If I can be of
> more help please let me know.
>
> Ernie

[Al MacDonald]

Shawn,

My Pitts S1- C (with D fuselage) came with a National chairpack. What I
didn't know at the time was the previous owner had set a piece of plywood
across the seat bottom frame to increase his eye height. This is a good
combination, as the visibility is as good as it can be, and when I'm hanging
upside down I can just feel my dangling hair touch the canopy. I took the
plywood out to try some circuits one day, and the 1.5" less height seriously
reduced the visibility (and the quality of my landings). This chairpack
doesn't give me good lumbar support, which I can feel on a cross-country
flight, but it's fine for g's. I can actually feel the diaper through my
rear end, but because the packed parachute is quite firm on the bottom
portion it doesn't tend to move or squish on higher g's. Without the
plywood, I think a seatpack would be the best for this aircraft and me
(6'160#). I don't think any type of backpack would be comfortable in this
aircraft, and even worse in a 'C' fuselage.

The parachutes are all tested and TSO'd in different categories. Older
style systems were either low speed (under 150mph) or standard category.
Military surplus are all standard category. Drop testing was done to a
standard that (theoretically) imparted a shock load on the system, which
decided in which category the system fit. 3000 and 5000 lbs seems to ring a
bell here. Later TSO requirements of C23c allowed for 3 different
categories, cat B being the most common -- a drop testing of 300 lbs at
175kts, with placarding at 254lbs at 150 kts. TSO C23D allowed for more
categories with different weight/speed restrictions, which was great for the
extra lighter or heavier user who may need different requirements. Current
day standards call for a "full-stow" diaper on a round parachute, which
stages the parachute deployment, thus increasing the reliability of the
opening. Without a diaper the parachute is allowed to open before the lines
become taut -- imagine the shock when the lines finally tighten up on a
parachute partially open already! In the days before the full stow diaper,
the lines were unstowed from the pack tray, which allowed for the potential
of arms and legs to get tangled up in the unstowing lines (especially for a
pilot making his first jump and not maintaining balance/stability on the
relative airflow). The full stow diaper carries all of the line stows on
it, so the lines unstow from the top down, and once the parachute is out of
the container the the lines are well out of the reach of an unstable pilot.

The opening speeds here are very important, as the drag from the opening
parachute increases in square to the speed increase. My Pitts has a VNE of
203mph/176kt, which could easily cause damage to a parachute rated at only
150 kts. Higher speed parachute systems incorporate other staging devices
to inhibit the opening of the parachute for a very short period of time
while the parachute and user slow down; all to reduce the opening shock to
an acceptable level. Altitude above sea level plays a part here as well, as
parachutes tend to open faster/harder in thinner air (don't ask me why) and
they land faster too. Landing a parachute may be a consideration here as
well. While the cockpit may only have enough room for a 24' parachute, the
200 pound user may find extensive lower leg and back injuries a real
possibility after a successful bailout, and our bones take longer to heal as
we get older....

I manufacture, repair, repack and sell all kinds of parachute equipment for
my business. Good luck on picking the 'right' system for you and your
Pitts.

Al MacDonald
Flying High Manufacturing Inc.




"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win...
> Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
contenders
> seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in
> the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
European
> models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space
in
> the cockpit are major considerations.
>
> Thanks!
> Shawn
>
>

[ShawnD2112]

Al,
Thanks for the info - the most informative response to date. In the
meantime since my first post, and based on the reponses I got here, I've
gone with the Softie seat pack. Confirmed the order last week and it should
arrive soon. Looking forward to receiving it and seeing how it all fits.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Al MacDonald" > wrote in message
news:0YRKc.43754$2i3.11107@clgrps12...
> Shawn,
>
> My Pitts S1- C (with D fuselage) came with a National chairpack. What I
> didn't know at the time was the previous owner had set a piece of plywood
> across the seat bottom frame to increase his eye height. This is a good
> combination, as the visibility is as good as it can be, and when I'm
hanging
> upside down I can just feel my dangling hair touch the canopy. I took the
> plywood out to try some circuits one day, and the 1.5" less height
seriously
> reduced the visibility (and the quality of my landings). This chairpack
> doesn't give me good lumbar support, which I can feel on a cross-country
> flight, but it's fine for g's. I can actually feel the diaper through my
> rear end, but because the packed parachute is quite firm on the bottom
> portion it doesn't tend to move or squish on higher g's. Without the
> plywood, I think a seatpack would be the best for this aircraft and me
> (6'160#). I don't think any type of backpack would be comfortable in this
> aircraft, and even worse in a 'C' fuselage.
>
> The parachutes are all tested and TSO'd in different categories. Older
> style systems were either low speed (under 150mph) or standard category.
> Military surplus are all standard category. Drop testing was done to a
> standard that (theoretically) imparted a shock load on the system, which
> decided in which category the system fit. 3000 and 5000 lbs seems to ring
a
> bell here. Later TSO requirements of C23c allowed for 3 different
> categories, cat B being the most common -- a drop testing of 300 lbs at
> 175kts, with placarding at 254lbs at 150 kts. TSO C23D allowed for more
> categories with different weight/speed restrictions, which was great for
the
> extra lighter or heavier user who may need different requirements.
Current
> day standards call for a "full-stow" diaper on a round parachute, which
> stages the parachute deployment, thus increasing the reliability of the
> opening. Without a diaper the parachute is allowed to open before the
lines
> become taut -- imagine the shock when the lines finally tighten up on a
> parachute partially open already! In the days before the full stow
diaper,
> the lines were unstowed from the pack tray, which allowed for the
potential
> of arms and legs to get tangled up in the unstowing lines (especially for
a
> pilot making his first jump and not maintaining balance/stability on the
> relative airflow). The full stow diaper carries all of the line stows on
> it, so the lines unstow from the top down, and once the parachute is out
of
> the container the the lines are well out of the reach of an unstable
pilot.
>
> The opening speeds here are very important, as the drag from the opening
> parachute increases in square to the speed increase. My Pitts has a VNE
of
> 203mph/176kt, which could easily cause damage to a parachute rated at only
> 150 kts. Higher speed parachute systems incorporate other staging devices
> to inhibit the opening of the parachute for a very short period of time
> while the parachute and user slow down; all to reduce the opening shock to
> an acceptable level. Altitude above sea level plays a part here as well,
as
> parachutes tend to open faster/harder in thinner air (don't ask me why)
and
> they land faster too. Landing a parachute may be a consideration here as
> well. While the cockpit may only have enough room for a 24' parachute,
the
> 200 pound user may find extensive lower leg and back injuries a real
> possibility after a successful bailout, and our bones take longer to heal
as
> we get older....
>
> I manufacture, repair, repack and sell all kinds of parachute equipment
for
> my business. Good luck on picking the 'right' system for you and your
> Pitts.
>
> Al MacDonald
> Flying High Manufacturing Inc.
>
>
>
>
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win...
> > Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> > emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
> contenders
> > seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and
> > parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size
in
> > the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> > appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
> European
> > models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space
> in
> > the cockpit are major considerations.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Shawn
> >
> >
>
>

[Al MacDonald]

Shawn, I forgot something very important!

I'd strongly suggest you make a habit of putting on the parachute and then
getting in the Pitts. Get out of the Pitts with the parachute on, then
remove it. Do NOT get in the habit of getting out of the plane without your
parachute on, as it could cultivate a very bad habit (and make you look
rather stupid in the obituary). I know it's a bit of a pain with my
chairpack, and probably even more so with the seat pack, but well worth the
extra effort.

One other thing: repacks. In Canada there are no laws/regulations requiring
you to wear a parachute or when it has to be repacked. Not so in the USA,
where the repack cycle is currently 120 days and wearing an out of date
parachute is breaking one of the FARs. It may be a good idea to check into
what your legal requirements are in the UK, if I understood correctly that
is where you are from. While I feel somewhat obligated to advise my
customers on the rules in Canada vs. the US in this department vs. the
manufacturers instructions, realistically most of the glider parachutes are
lucky to show up here for an annual repack.

That's all.

al.



"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
...
> Al,
> Thanks for the info - the most informative response to date. In the
> meantime since my first post, and based on the reponses I got here, I've
> gone with the Softie seat pack. Confirmed the order last week and it
should
> arrive soon. Looking forward to receiving it and seeing how it all fits.
>
> Cheers,
> Shawn
> "Al MacDonald" > wrote in message
> news:0YRKc.43754$2i3.11107@clgrps12...
> > Shawn,
> >
> > My Pitts S1- C (with D fuselage) came with a National chairpack. What I
> > didn't know at the time was the previous owner had set a piece of
plywood
> > across the seat bottom frame to increase his eye height. This is a good
> > combination, as the visibility is as good as it can be, and when I'm
> hanging
> > upside down I can just feel my dangling hair touch the canopy. I took
the
> > plywood out to try some circuits one day, and the 1.5" less height
> seriously
> > reduced the visibility (and the quality of my landings). This chairpack
> > doesn't give me good lumbar support, which I can feel on a cross-country
> > flight, but it's fine for g's. I can actually feel the diaper through
my
> > rear end, but because the packed parachute is quite firm on the bottom
> > portion it doesn't tend to move or squish on higher g's. Without the
> > plywood, I think a seatpack would be the best for this aircraft and me
> > (6'160#). I don't think any type of backpack would be comfortable in
this
> > aircraft, and even worse in a 'C' fuselage.
> >
> > The parachutes are all tested and TSO'd in different categories. Older
> > style systems were either low speed (under 150mph) or standard category.
> > Military surplus are all standard category. Drop testing was done to a
> > standard that (theoretically) imparted a shock load on the system, which
> > decided in which category the system fit. 3000 and 5000 lbs seems to
ring
> a
> > bell here. Later TSO requirements of C23c allowed for 3 different
> > categories, cat B being the most common -- a drop testing of 300 lbs at
> > 175kts, with placarding at 254lbs at 150 kts. TSO C23D allowed for more
> > categories with different weight/speed restrictions, which was great for
> the
> > extra lighter or heavier user who may need different requirements.
> Current
> > day standards call for a "full-stow" diaper on a round parachute, which
> > stages the parachute deployment, thus increasing the reliability of the
> > opening. Without a diaper the parachute is allowed to open before the
> lines
> > become taut -- imagine the shock when the lines finally tighten up on a
> > parachute partially open already! In the days before the full stow
> diaper,
> > the lines were unstowed from the pack tray, which allowed for the
> potential
> > of arms and legs to get tangled up in the unstowing lines (especially
for
> a
> > pilot making his first jump and not maintaining balance/stability on the
> > relative airflow). The full stow diaper carries all of the line stows
on
> > it, so the lines unstow from the top down, and once the parachute is out
> of
> > the container the the lines are well out of the reach of an unstable
> pilot.
> >
> > The opening speeds here are very important, as the drag from the opening
> > parachute increases in square to the speed increase. My Pitts has a VNE
> of
> > 203mph/176kt, which could easily cause damage to a parachute rated at
only
> > 150 kts. Higher speed parachute systems incorporate other staging
devices
> > to inhibit the opening of the parachute for a very short period of time
> > while the parachute and user slow down; all to reduce the opening shock
to
> > an acceptable level. Altitude above sea level plays a part here as
well,
> as
> > parachutes tend to open faster/harder in thinner air (don't ask me why)
> and
> > they land faster too. Landing a parachute may be a consideration here
as
> > well. While the cockpit may only have enough room for a 24' parachute,
> the
> > 200 pound user may find extensive lower leg and back injuries a real
> > possibility after a successful bailout, and our bones take longer to
heal
> as
> > we get older....
> >
> > I manufacture, repair, repack and sell all kinds of parachute equipment
> for
> > my business. Good luck on picking the 'right' system for you and your
> > Pitts.
> >
> > Al MacDonald
> > Flying High Manufacturing Inc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> > news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win...
> > > Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an
> > > emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US
> > contenders
> > > seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field,
and
> > > parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for
size
> in
> > > the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd
> > > appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any
> > European
> > > models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and
space
> > in
> > > the cockpit are major considerations.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Shawn
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Doug Carter]

"Al MacDonald" > wrote in message news:<vTgLc.46462$2i3.17796@clgrps12>...
> Shawn, I forgot something very important!
>
> Do NOT get in the habit of getting out of the plane without your
> parachute on, as it could cultivate a very bad habit (and make you look
> rather stupid in the obituary).

Freely admitting that I unbuckle my chute and leave it in the plane
(after landing...), are there any actual documented accounts of
someone unbuckling their chute *before* bailing out?

[Al MacDonald]

Doug,

While I don't know of any actuals, I can tell you this. My father was the
CFI for a 104 squadron for several years. They all spent lots of time in
the sim, as it was cheaper to fly than the real thing. Each year they would
do a major ride, where things started going wrong. And more wrong, and more
wrong. At some point the pilot decided to abandon ship, and the hot seat
would not fire so he/she would have to get out manually. According to my
father, some 95% of the pilots would undo all of the straps and get out with
no parachute. I think this is partly because they were under a lot of
stress and somewhat rattled, plus they were practicing what they had done
for years every day..... undo everything and get out.

We all preplan and practice our emergency procedures so we don't have to
figure it out when under the gun, so it only seems logical that this be
carried through with the parachute too.

My $.02 ($.05 CDN) worth.

al.


"Doug Carter" > wrote in message
om...
> "Al MacDonald" > wrote in message
news:<vTgLc.46462$2i3.17796@clgrps12>...
> > Shawn, I forgot something very important!
> >
> > Do NOT get in the habit of getting out of the plane without your
> > parachute on, as it could cultivate a very bad habit (and make you look
> > rather stupid in the obituary).
>
> Freely admitting that I unbuckle my chute and leave it in the plane
> (after landing...), are there any actual documented accounts of
> someone unbuckling their chute *before* bailing out?