XCSoar With LNAV? [Archive]

Morgan[_2_]

March 15th 13, 10:14 PM

I have XCSoar running on a Dell Streak 5 and wanted to look into connecting to the L-Nav in my glider. I have an IOIO board, but I believe the real problem is that the L-Nav doesn't use the same protocol as the 302. XCSoar essentially doesn't have the right driver for the L-Nav and so far none of the developers have a need to configure a driver for the L-Nav or the hardware to actually do it.

I suspect there are many potential users of that configuration, but it will take a user with the drive and the skillset to augment the XCSoar code with the necessary pieces to support the L-Nav.

Hans has some useful info on his website about connecting GPS data to an L-Nav.

https://sites.google.com/site/threeuniform/lnav

Morgan

On Monday, March 11, 2013 8:04:08 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I just had a quick look behind one's panel but it doesn't look like there's
>
> any place to plug in the serial to Bluetooth device without unplugging
>
> something else. Maybe the GPS control head...
>
>
>
>
>
> "
>
> > On Monday, March 11, 2013 12:51:59 AM UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> >> Can their Androids be interfaced to the LNAV via K6-BT or IOIO?
>
> >
>
> > I have never used any of these products, but usually K6Bt and IOIO works
>
> > just like a cable would.

Paul Remde

March 16th 13, 02:10 AM

Hi Morgan,

By "L-NAV" do you mean an L-NAV and GPS-NAV combination? The L-NAV does not
send any data out to soaring flight software. It can send data to a
GPS-NAV. The GPS-NAV then sends the vario and GPS data out to the soaring
flight software.

I have the L-NAV and GPS-NAV dataport specification if you need it.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
__________________________

"Morgan" wrote in message
...

I have XCSoar running on a Dell Streak 5 and wanted to look into connecting
to the L-Nav in my glider. I have an IOIO board, but I believe the real
problem is that the L-Nav doesn't use the same protocol as the 302. XCSoar
essentially doesn't have the right driver for the L-Nav and so far none of
the developers have a need to configure a driver for the L-Nav or the
hardware to actually do it.

I suspect there are many potential users of that configuration, but it will
take a user with the drive and the skillset to augment the XCSoar code with
the necessary pieces to support the L-Nav.

Hans has some useful info on his website about connecting GPS data to an
L-Nav.

https://sites.google.com/site/threeuniform/lnav

Morgan

On Monday, March 11, 2013 8:04:08 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I just had a quick look behind one's panel but it doesn't look like
> there's
>
> any place to plug in the serial to Bluetooth device without unplugging
>
> something else. Maybe the GPS control head...
>
>
>
>
>
> "
>
> > On Monday, March 11, 2013 12:51:59 AM UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> >> Can their Androids be interfaced to the LNAV via K6-BT or IOIO?
>
> >
>
> > I have never used any of these products, but usually K6Bt and IOIO works
>
> > just like a cable would.

Bill T

March 16th 13, 02:46 AM

I've picked up a new Android (Ice Crème Sandwich) phone (Galaxy Stratosphere) and have installed the latest 6.5.1 XCSoar app. But I am not having any luck getting the program to recognize the data files for airspace, airports and turn points that I have loaded into the XCSoarData folder.

I have been able to create two different glider profiles and can see them in the XCSoarData folder.

Any ideas?

Bill T

On Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:51:59 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I've got a couple of friends who have acquired Androids and installed
>
> XCSoar. Both of their gliders have LNAV and GPS-NAV installed.
>
>
>
> Can their Androids be interfaced to the LNAV via K6-BT or IOIO?
>
>
>
> It was easy connecting with my 302 and K6-BT...
>
>
>
> Dan, 5J

Morgan[_2_]

March 16th 13, 05:09 AM

Hi Paul,

I don't have the time to develop the C+ skills to work on getting communication working between the L-NAV and XCSoar right now so I probably don't need the comm spec. I do know a pilot that has sent me something of the sentence structure that the L-NAV uses when communicating with the GPS Nav. I think that could possibly be used for getting data into XCSoar, but I haven't seen what all it can support.

I actually am quite happy leaving them disconnected from each other at this point. It allows me to leave XCSoar at a higher MC value or at least with a larger polar degradation buffer and experiment with the L-Nav MC value for more aggressive flying.

I do miss XCSoar having real-time wind info on a long glide though.

Morgan

On Friday, March 15, 2013 7:10:59 PM UTC-7, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Morgan,
>
>
>
> By "L-NAV" do you mean an L-NAV and GPS-NAV combination? The L-NAV does not
>
> send any data out to soaring flight software. It can send data to a
>
> GPS-NAV. The GPS-NAV then sends the vario and GPS data out to the soaring
>
> flight software.
>
>
>
> I have the L-NAV and GPS-NAV dataport specification if you need it.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Paul Remde
>
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> __________________________
>
>
>
> "Morgan" wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> I have XCSoar running on a Dell Streak 5 and wanted to look into connecting
>
> to the L-Nav in my glider. I have an IOIO board, but I believe the real
>
> problem is that the L-Nav doesn't use the same protocol as the 302. XCSoar
>
> essentially doesn't have the right driver for the L-Nav and so far none of
>
> the developers have a need to configure a driver for the L-Nav or the
>
> hardware to actually do it.
>
>
>
> I suspect there are many potential users of that configuration, but it will
>
> take a user with the drive and the skillset to augment the XCSoar code with
>
> the necessary pieces to support the L-Nav.
>
>
>
> Hans has some useful info on his website about connecting GPS data to an
>
> L-Nav.
>
>
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/threeuniform/lnav
>
>
>
> Morgan
>
>
>
> On Monday, March 11, 2013 8:04:08 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> > I just had a quick look behind one's panel but it doesn't look like
>
> > there's
>
> >
>
> > any place to plug in the serial to Bluetooth device without unplugging
>
> >
>
> > something else. Maybe the GPS control head...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "
>
> >
>
> > > On Monday, March 11, 2013 12:51:59 AM UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >> Can their Androids be interfaced to the LNAV via K6-BT or IOIO?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I have never used any of these products, but usually K6Bt and IOIO works
>
> >
>
> > > just like a cable would.

[email protected]

March 16th 13, 05:27 AM

Max and XCSoar Team

For the old Cambridge LNAV to achieve full functionality (i.e. automatic final glide calculation) it needs following sentences:
GPRMB standard NMEA sentence with Waypoint/GoTo info
GPRMC standard NMEA sentence with current location info
PCAIB Cambridge proprietary sentence with waypoint elevation info.

The format of the PCAIB sentence is:
$PCAIB,<1>,<2>,<CR><LF>
<1> Destination Navpoint elevation in meters, format XXXXX (leading zeros will be transmitted)
<2> Destination Navpoint attribute word, format XXXXX (leading zeros will be
transmitted)

Normally these 3 sentences are provided to the LNAV from the GPSNAV/303 combination.

So, the questions are:
Can XCSoar output these 3 sentences on a serial interface at 4800 Baud ?
Does that need to be a separate COM port or can this be output on the same COM port, where the input is used e.g for PowerFlarm data (GPS, Flarm and pressure data).

I am using an IPAQ310, which has only 1 wired external port, currently connected to PowerFlarm.
Personally I don't care about other data exchange with the LNAV, e.g. for sync of McCready setting.

[email protected]

March 16th 13, 06:36 AM

Sorry guys. Forget about the second question.
That was a momentary lapse of reason on my side.
Of course as a standard you cannot have 19k2 Baud Rx and 4k8 Baud Tx on the same serial interface.
But the fact remains that the LNAV needs 4k8 Baud.

In my case, with the IPAQ310, that would only leave the BlueTooth interface, as the hardwired interface is already used for the PowerFlarm.
This would require a KT6BT interface (at US$200) or similar.
As Max says on this webpages: far too expensive for my taste. (http://max.kellermann.name/blog/k6_bt_versus_glidertools_vfbt_1.html)

3U

Max Kellermann[_2_]

March 16th 13, 08:04 AM

On Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:27:31 AM UTC+1, wrote:
> Max and XCSoar Team
[...]
> Normally these 3 sentences are provided to the LNAV from the GPSNAV/303 combination.

So the L-Nav does not transmit NMEA, it expects to receive them?

We need to do something similar for the LXNAV V7 to get full feature support, the last tiny piece that is missing in XCSoar.

Yes, we could do that. Is there a ticket already? If not, please write one. And be ready to test our binaries. None of us has a L-Nav.
Maybe somebody out there has a spare one and likes to donate it to the XCSoar project? That is usually the best way to guarantee maximum compatibility.

Kimmo Hytoenen

March 16th 13, 10:45 AM

At 08:04 16 March 2013, Max Kellermann wrote:
>On Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:27:31 AM UTC+1,
wrote:
>> Max and XCSoar Team
>[...]
>> Normally these 3 sentences are provided to the LNAV from
the GPSNAV/303
>combination.
>
>So the L-Nav does not transmit NMEA, it expects to receive
them?
>
>We need to do something similar for the LXNAV V7 to get full
feature
>support, the last tiny piece that is missing in XCSoar.
>
>Yes, we could do that. Is there a ticket already? If not, please
write one.
>And be ready to test our binaries. None of us has a L-Nav.
>Maybe somebody out there has a spare one and likes to donate
it to the
>XCSoar project? That is usually the best way to guarantee
maximum
>compatibility.
>

We use GPS-NAV devices in combination with LX160. GPS-NAV
sends information also about the target, so with that LX160 can
be used as a final glide computer. At the moment we have made
the cabling so, that GPS-NAV sends NMEA to the RX of the
LX160, and TX of the LX160 send data to XCSoat over
Soartronic IOIO.

If we have a possibility to send NMEA data with GPS position and
target to devices like LX160 and VW921, they could use it for
their final glide calculation, build-in wind calculation, etc. Both
LX160 and VW921 can only send data to XCSoar, the receiving
side of the serial comm is used to listen external GPS source, like
GPS-NAV. Since the baudrate is same, should be relatively easy.
Maybe the NMEA our does that already, but cannot be
configured to send into the same port that is used for incoming
data.

Downloading logger data from GPS-NAV would be great! It is
really nice back-up logger with navigating display.

Kimmo Hytoenen

March 16th 13, 10:46 AM

Dan Marotta

March 16th 13, 03:55 PM

Can't you read the wind from the LNAV/GPSNAV and manually input it into
XCSoar? Not realtime, but pretty close.

"Morgan" > wrote in message
...
Hi Paul,

I don't have the time to develop the C+ skills to work on getting
communication working between the L-NAV and XCSoar right now so I probably
don't need the comm spec. I do know a pilot that has sent me something of
the sentence structure that the L-NAV uses when communicating with the GPS
Nav. I think that could possibly be used for getting data into XCSoar, but
I haven't seen what all it can support.

I actually am quite happy leaving them disconnected from each other at this
point. It allows me to leave XCSoar at a higher MC value or at least with a
larger polar degradation buffer and experiment with the L-Nav MC value for
more aggressive flying.

I do miss XCSoar having real-time wind info on a long glide though.

Morgan

On Friday, March 15, 2013 7:10:59 PM UTC-7, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Morgan,
>
>
>
> By "L-NAV" do you mean an L-NAV and GPS-NAV combination? The L-NAV does
> not
>
> send any data out to soaring flight software. It can send data to a
>
> GPS-NAV. The GPS-NAV then sends the vario and GPS data out to the soaring
>
> flight software.
>
>
>
> I have the L-NAV and GPS-NAV dataport specification if you need it.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Paul Remde
>
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> __________________________
>
>
>
> "Morgan" wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> I have XCSoar running on a Dell Streak 5 and wanted to look into
> connecting
>
> to the L-Nav in my glider. I have an IOIO board, but I believe the real
>
> problem is that the L-Nav doesn't use the same protocol as the 302.
> XCSoar
>
> essentially doesn't have the right driver for the L-Nav and so far none of
>
> the developers have a need to configure a driver for the L-Nav or the
>
> hardware to actually do it.
>
>
>
> I suspect there are many potential users of that configuration, but it
> will
>
> take a user with the drive and the skillset to augment the XCSoar code
> with
>
> the necessary pieces to support the L-Nav.
>
>
>
> Hans has some useful info on his website about connecting GPS data to an
>
> L-Nav.
>
>
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/threeuniform/lnav
>
>
>
> Morgan
>
>
>
> On Monday, March 11, 2013 8:04:08 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> > I just had a quick look behind one's panel but it doesn't look like
>
> > there's
>
> >
>
> > any place to plug in the serial to Bluetooth device without unplugging
>
> >
>
> > something else. Maybe the GPS control head...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "
>
> >
>
> > > On Monday, March 11, 2013 12:51:59 AM UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >> Can their Androids be interfaced to the LNAV via K6-BT or IOIO?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I have never used any of these products, but usually K6Bt and IOIO
> > > works
>
> >
>
> > > just like a cable would.

Dan Marotta

March 16th 13, 04:16 PM

Bill,

Do the files you've placed in your XCSoarData folder have the proper
suffixes (.sua, .cup., .txt, .xcm)?

Are you using the Config>Config>System>Site Files>Site Files process in the
XCSoar program?

I posted the following on google drive for a friend. Assuming you're
interested in the USA, here are the files to get you started:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B56GTWPvapkqUGdKd0EwMzdjMGc/edit - rename
this one All_USA.sua. This is your special use airspace for the entire US.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B56GTWPvapkqdUZKd1l5dGJhTWs/edit - rename
this one United_States.cup. This is all the turnpoints/airports in the USA.

You'll need to generate your own terrain map. Go to XCSoar.org and follow
the links to create and download a terrain map for your area.

Hope this helps.

"Bill T" > wrote in message
...
I've picked up a new Android (Ice Crème Sandwich) phone (Galaxy
Stratosphere) and have installed the latest 6.5.1 XCSoar app. But I am not
having any luck getting the program to recognize the data files for
airspace, airports and turn points that I have loaded into the XCSoarData
folder.

I have been able to create two different glider profiles and can see them in
the XCSoarData folder.

Any ideas?

Bill T

On Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:51:59 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I've got a couple of friends who have acquired Androids and installed
>
> XCSoar. Both of their gliders have LNAV and GPS-NAV installed.
>
>
>
> Can their Androids be interfaced to the LNAV via K6-BT or IOIO?
>
>
>
> It was easy connecting with my 302 and K6-BT...
>
>
>
> Dan, 5J

Morgan[_2_]

March 16th 13, 05:02 PM

Dan,

Yes, this is what I do if the situation warrants it, like wave or significant winds. Since I have the full L-NAV, GPS-NAV setup I can rely on that for final glide type info.

With 6+ of XCSoar, they really improved the easy of manual wind entry so you are correct, it's pretty trivial.

Morgan

On Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:55:25 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Can't you read the wind from the LNAV/GPSNAV and manually input it into
>
> XCSoar? Not realtime, but pretty close.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Morgan" wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
>
> I don't have the time to develop the C+ skills to work on getting
>
> communication working between the L-NAV and XCSoar right now so I probably
>
> don't need the comm spec. I do know a pilot that has sent me something of
>
> the sentence structure that the L-NAV uses when communicating with the GPS
>
> Nav. I think that could possibly be used for getting data into XCSoar, but
>
> I haven't seen what all it can support.
>
>
>
> I actually am quite happy leaving them disconnected from each other at this
>
> point. It allows me to leave XCSoar at a higher MC value or at least with a
>
> larger polar degradation buffer and experiment with the L-Nav MC value for
>
> more aggressive flying.
>
>
>
> I do miss XCSoar having real-time wind info on a long glide though.
>
>
>
> Morgan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, March 15, 2013 7:10:59 PM UTC-7, Paul Remde wrote:
>
> > Hi Morgan,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > By "L-NAV" do you mean an L-NAV and GPS-NAV combination? The L-NAV does
>
> > not
>
> >
>
> > send any data out to soaring flight software. It can send data to a
>
> >
>
> > GPS-NAV. The GPS-NAV then sends the vario and GPS data out to the soaring
>
> >
>
> > flight software.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have the L-NAV and GPS-NAV dataport specification if you need it.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Best Regards,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Paul Remde
>
> >
>
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> >
>
> > __________________________
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "Morgan" wrote in message
>
> >
>
> > ...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have XCSoar running on a Dell Streak 5 and wanted to look into
>
> > connecting
>
> >
>
> > to the L-Nav in my glider. I have an IOIO board, but I believe the real
>
> >
>
> > problem is that the L-Nav doesn't use the same protocol as the 302.
>
> > XCSoar
>
> >
>
> > essentially doesn't have the right driver for the L-Nav and so far none of
>
> >
>
> > the developers have a need to configure a driver for the L-Nav or the
>
> >
>
> > hardware to actually do it.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I suspect there are many potential users of that configuration, but it
>
> > will
>
> >
>
> > take a user with the drive and the skillset to augment the XCSoar code
>
> > with
>
> >
>
> > the necessary pieces to support the L-Nav.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hans has some useful info on his website about connecting GPS data to an
>
> >
>
> > L-Nav.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > https://sites.google.com/site/threeuniform/lnav
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Morgan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Monday, March 11, 2013 8:04:08 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I just had a quick look behind one's panel but it doesn't look like
>
> >
>
> > > there's
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > any place to plug in the serial to Bluetooth device without unplugging
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > something else. Maybe the GPS control head...
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > "
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > On Monday, March 11, 2013 12:51:59 AM UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >> Can their Androids be interfaced to the LNAV via K6-BT or IOIO?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I have never used any of these products, but usually K6Bt and IOIO
>
> > > > works
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > just like a cable would.

Bill T

March 17th 13, 04:33 PM

Thanks Dan, I believe I have the correct suffixes, files I got from others in the club. Yes I am using the config program in XCSoar, but I'll check again.

I sent a note to get access to the googledocs files.

Bill

On Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:16:42 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Bill,
>
>
>
> Do the files you've placed in your XCSoarData folder have the proper
>
> suffixes (.sua, .cup., .txt, .xcm)?
>
>
>
> Are you using the Config>Config>System>Site Files>Site Files process in the
>
> XCSoar program?
>
>
>
> I posted the following on google drive for a friend. Assuming you're
>
> interested in the USA, here are the files to get you started:
>
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B56GTWPvapkqUGdKd0EwMzdjMGc/edit - rename
>
> this one All_USA.sua. This is your special use airspace for the entire US.
>
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B56GTWPvapkqdUZKd1l5dGJhTWs/edit - rename
>
> this one United_States.cup. This is all the turnpoints/airports in the USA.
>
>
>
> You'll need to generate your own terrain map. Go to XCSoar.org and follow
>
> the links to create and download a terrain map for your area.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> "Bill T" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> I've picked up a new Android (Ice Crème Sandwich) phone (Galaxy
>
> Stratosphere) and have installed the latest 6.5.1 XCSoar app. But I am not
>
> having any luck getting the program to recognize the data files for
>
> airspace, airports and turn points that I have loaded into the XCSoarData
>
> folder.
>
>
>
> I have been able to create two different glider profiles and can see them in
>
> the XCSoarData folder.
>
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> Bill T

Bill T

March 18th 13, 01:31 AM

Thanks Dan, got it up and running.
Although the CUP file name does not show in the file setup screen, the points appear to be there.
I was able to create a task on the android phone, Bluetooth upload task to LX Nano, and used the Nano GPS output on Bluetooth to drive XCSoar after I disabled the internal phone gps.

Bill

Dan Marotta

March 18th 13, 03:13 PM

Glad to help, Bill.

I kept the internal GPS on the Streak enabled, but the second choice in
XCSoar. First choice is the K6BT and the CAI-302 driver. That way, should
the Bluetooth link drop, XCSoar will still run on the internal GPS. I can
also demonstrate the device or play with new releases without going to the
airport.

"Bill T" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Dan, got it up and running.
> Although the CUP file name does not show in the file setup screen, the
> points appear to be there.
> I was able to create a task on the android phone, Bluetooth upload task to
> LX Nano, and used the Nano GPS output on Bluetooth to drive XCSoar after I
> disabled the internal phone gps.
>
> Bill

Jean dup

September 5th 17, 11:52 AM

Hi all,

I am trying to set up a new system in my ship which consists of the following:
LX 160, Nano 4, Samsung Tab running XCSoar.
I would like to use the XCSoar as my PFD and would like to have the Nano GPS and Baro data on it as well as the LX160 Airspeed and TE.

Is this possible and how would the arrangement be?

Thanks a lot
Jean du Plessis

Dan Marotta

September 5th 17, 04:27 PM

Hello Jean,

I did something similar using a Cambridge 302 and a Dell Streak 5
running XCSoar.Â* I used the serial output of the 302 to drive a K6BT
serial to bluetooth converter and connected to the Streak via bluetooth.

I now have a much more complex system in my Stemme:

PowerFLARM portable and ClearNav variometer connected to serial
splitters, one output of each splitter feeds a ClearNav II flight
computer while the other output of each feeds a serial to bluetooth
converter.Â* The Dell Streak is capable of paring with multiple bluetooth
sources and I have one input configured to read the variometer data and
another configured to read the FLARM data.

Note that there are many options for serial to bluetooth converters that
are considerably less expensive than the K6BT but I've had the K6
devices long before I learned of the less expensive options.

Good luck with your efforts and feel free to contact me offline if you
have any other questions.

Regards,
Dan

On 9/5/2017 4:52 AM, Jean dup wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am trying to set up a new system in my ship which consists of the following:
> LX 160, Nano 4, Samsung Tab running XCSoar.
> I would like to use the XCSoar as my PFD and would like to have the Nano GPS and Baro data on it as well as the LX160 Airspeed and TE.
>
> Is this possible and how would the arrangement be?
>
> Thanks a lot
> Jean du Plessis
>

--
Dan, 5J

Jean dup

September 5th 17, 05:16 PM

Thanks a lot Dan,
It seems that going the BT route would be the easiest. Not having played around with multiple BT devices connected at the same time before, I was a bit wary of the possibility of it.
Does it matter that the Tab will act as a master and the other devices as slaves or will the communication work both ways?
Sorry for asking the question and not just testing it.. I am currently in the UK and my glider in South Africa- so I'd like to hit the ground running with the set up as soon as I get back!
I'll have a look for possible serial to Bluetooth modules!

Thanks!
Jean

Dan Marotta

September 5th 17, 07:51 PM

Jean,

I'm at home and my glider is at the airport 25 miles away, but I have
started the XCSoar simulator and, if I recall correctly, I configured
two devices something like the following:

Confg > Devices > A:Â* Cambridge CAI302 on COM1.Â* I think the baud rate
is 4800, but you can experiment with that.
Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* B:Â* COM2, Baud 19200, Driver FLARM.

Backing out to the Devices page, you can select Monitor to view message
traffic.

It really was not difficult using the K6 devices.Â* There is also a
hardware solution called IOIO that allows direct plug connection, but I
don't know if you can connect both a vario and a FLARM.

Good Luck!

Dan

On 9/5/2017 10:16 AM, Jean dup wrote:
> Thanks a lot Dan,
> It seems that going the BT route would be the easiest. Not having played around with multiple BT devices connected at the same time before, I was a bit wary of the possibility of it.
> Does it matter that the Tab will act as a master and the other devices as slaves or will the communication work both ways?
> Sorry for asking the question and not just testing it.. I am currently in the UK and my glider in South Africa- so I'd like to hit the ground running with the set up as soon as I get back!
> I'll have a look for possible serial to Bluetooth modules!
>
> Thanks!
> Jean

--
Dan, 5J

[email protected]

September 5th 17, 08:15 PM

I have a vario (CAI 302) and PowerFlarm connected via the IOIO solution that Dan mentions and it works beautifully. Happy to share how I wired it all up if you're interested as there needs to be some conversion between RS232 and TTL logic levels. Send me a PM if you want the details.

Robert

On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 1:51:19 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Jean,
>
> I'm at home and my glider is at the airport 25 miles away, but I have
> started the XCSoar simulator and, if I recall correctly, I configured
> two devices something like the following:
>
> Confg > Devices > A:Â* Cambridge CAI302 on COM1.Â* I think the baud rate
> is 4800, but you can experiment with that.
> Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* B:Â* COM2, Baud 19200, Driver FLARM.
>
> Backing out to the Devices page, you can select Monitor to view message
> traffic.
>
> It really was not difficult using the K6 devices.Â* There is also a
> hardware solution called IOIO that allows direct plug connection, but I
> don't know if you can connect both a vario and a FLARM.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Dan
>
> On 9/5/2017 10:16 AM, Jean dup wrote:
> > Thanks a lot Dan,
> > It seems that going the BT route would be the easiest. Not having played around with multiple BT devices connected at the same time before, I was a bit wary of the possibility of it.
> > Does it matter that the Tab will act as a master and the other devices as slaves or will the communication work both ways?
> > Sorry for asking the question and not just testing it.. I am currently in the UK and my glider in South Africa- so I'd like to hit the ground running with the set up as soon as I get back!
> > I'll have a look for possible serial to Bluetooth modules!
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Jean
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Craig Funston

September 5th 17, 08:25 PM

On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 3:52:29 AM UTC-7, Jean dup wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am trying to set up a new system in my ship which consists of the following:
> LX 160, Nano 4, Samsung Tab running XCSoar.
> I would like to use the XCSoar as my PFD and would like to have the Nano GPS and Baro data on it as well as the LX160 Airspeed and TE.
>
> Is this possible and how would the arrangement be?
>
> Thanks a lot
> Jean du Plessis

Here's a nice thread about setting up a wifi device to allow connection.
http://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8467

I've just switched from a WinCE device that had a hardwired connection to an Android device that doesn't have an easy option for that. I'm considering either a BT or wifi connection.

Cheers,
Craig
7Q

[email protected]

September 6th 17, 08:02 PM

As long as I have a couple of you experts reading this no-longer-properly-named thread, I have a question:

I'm running Top Hat on a Kobo e-reader. I wired up a USB/TTL converter to feed it data from my PowerFLARM since the Kobo doesn't have its own GPS.The GPS data and barometric altitude work great on Top Hat, all the time.

Top Hat also displays some--but not all--FLARM traffic info. Frequently not all targets displayed on my PowerFLARM screen appear on the Top Hat screen (same zoom level). Top Hat doesn't read the FLARM Net database I downloaded so there are no contest IDs displayed unless I have manually assigned a contest ID to them (in which case, they appear sometimes but not always, although my impression is that if a mapped-to-a-contest-ID target appears, it's usually labeled as such). Sometimes climb rates appear under the targets but not always. Occasionally I'll get a target with contest ID (that I've manually assigned) AND a climb rate, but that's rare.

The targets are on the FLARM display. The IDs and climb rates appear on the FLARMView screen when it's connected (currently I don't have a way of connecting it and the Kobo at the same time). When a target appears on the Top Hat screen and I click on it, I can then click thru to get detailed into, including ICAO identifier, climb rate, altitude, and distance (and I can then assign a contest ID if I know for sure who the target is).

I was speaking to Rob Dunning at Region 2 this weekend and he was puzzled by the erratic nature of this. Thoughts?

Chip Bearden

[email protected]

September 6th 17, 08:27 PM

Interesting situation... Are you really sure that the Kobo is getting all of the GPS and baromatric data? Or, is it possible that it is getting 50% - 75% of it but the data is transmitted so often (every second) that you don't discern any data packet loss from those streams?

Like Rob, it is rather puzzling that one data stream is erratic and the other two not, which is why I ask the above question. Maybe try the monitor device feature for a few minutes and watch the data flow to see if you can detect any gaps. Maybe the USB conversion HW isn't quite up to snuff.

R

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 2:02:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> As long as I have a couple of you experts reading this no-longer-properly-named thread, I have a question:
>
> I'm running Top Hat on a Kobo e-reader. I wired up a USB/TTL converter to feed it data from my PowerFLARM since the Kobo doesn't have its own GPS.The GPS data and barometric altitude work great on Top Hat, all the time.
>
> Top Hat also displays some--but not all--FLARM traffic info. Frequently not all targets displayed on my PowerFLARM screen appear on the Top Hat screen (same zoom level). Top Hat doesn't read the FLARM Net database I downloaded so there are no contest IDs displayed unless I have manually assigned a contest ID to them (in which case, they appear sometimes but not always, although my impression is that if a mapped-to-a-contest-ID target appears, it's usually labeled as such). Sometimes climb rates appear under the targets but not always. Occasionally I'll get a target with contest ID (that I've manually assigned) AND a climb rate, but that's rare.
>
> The targets are on the FLARM display. The IDs and climb rates appear on the FLARMView screen when it's connected (currently I don't have a way of connecting it and the Kobo at the same time). When a target appears on the Top Hat screen and I click on it, I can then click thru to get detailed into, including ICAO identifier, climb rate, altitude, and distance (and I can then assign a contest ID if I know for sure who the target is).
>
> I was speaking to Rob Dunning at Region 2 this weekend and he was puzzled by the erratic nature of this. Thoughts?
>
> Chip Bearden

[email protected]

September 6th 17, 10:24 PM

Actually, I don't know for sure that there aren't dropouts or interruptions in the GPS/baro sentences data streams, just that there are no hesitations or flickering. The "missing" FLARM target data appear for one or several seconds, then disappear. The climb rates are more often missing than displayed but when they do display, they're also there for one or more seconds. The same with the IDs on the targets.

I
I'll try "monitor device" this weekend. What am I looking for: a FLARM target sentence that only appears once in a while even though there's a target within range continuously? Can I test that without having other FLARM-equipped aircraft in range? I can say when testing on the ground that power traffic targets move smoothly across the map display without any erratic behavior. I can't recall if the erratic targets are more likely when there are a lot of them vs. just one or two.

NOTE: found this in the FLARM Data Port Spec doc:
Data on other proximate aircraft, intended for connected devices with sufficient CPU performance. This sentence should be treated with utmost flexibility and tolerance on a best effort base. Individual parameters may be empty.. The sentence is only sent when port baud rate is 19.2k or higher. In case of serial port congestion or high CPU load, this sentence may be omitted for several objects independent of the alarm level.

So if I set the baud rate higher on the FLARM and the Top Hat device, would that cause any problems?

Chip Bearden

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 3:27:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Interesting situation... Are you really sure that the Kobo is getting all of the GPS and baromatric data? Or, is it possible that it is getting 50% - 75% of it but the data is transmitted so often (every second) that you don't discern any data packet loss from those streams?
>
> Like Rob, it is rather puzzling that one data stream is erratic and the other two not, which is why I ask the above question. Maybe try the monitor device feature for a few minutes and watch the data flow to see if you can detect any gaps. Maybe the USB conversion HW isn't quite up to snuff.

Richard Pfiffner[_2_]

September 6th 17, 10:35 PM

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 2:24:34 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Actually, I don't know for sure that there aren't dropouts or interruptions in the GPS/baro sentences data streams, just that there are no hesitations or flickering. The "missing" FLARM target data appear for one or several seconds, then disappear. The climb rates are more often missing than displayed but when they do display, they're also there for one or more seconds. The same with the IDs on the targets.
>
> I
> I'll try "monitor device" this weekend. What am I looking for: a FLARM target sentence that only appears once in a while even though there's a target within range continuously? Can I test that without having other FLARM-equipped aircraft in range? I can say when testing on the ground that power traffic targets move smoothly across the map display without any erratic behavior. I can't recall if the erratic targets are more likely when there are a lot of them vs. just one or two.
>
> NOTE: found this in the FLARM Data Port Spec doc:
> Data on other proximate aircraft, intended for connected devices with sufficient CPU performance. This sentence should be treated with utmost flexibility and tolerance on a best effort base. Individual parameters may be empty. The sentence is only sent when port baud rate is 19.2k or higher. In case of serial port congestion or high CPU load, this sentence may be omitted for several objects independent of the alarm level.
>
> So if I set the baud rate higher on the FLARM and the Top Hat device, would that cause any problems?
>
> Chip Bearden
>
> On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 3:27:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Interesting situation... Are you really sure that the Kobo is getting all of the GPS and baromatric data? Or, is it possible that it is getting 50% - 75% of it but the data is transmitted so often (every second) that you don't discern any data packet loss from those streams?
> >
> > Like Rob, it is rather puzzling that one data stream is erratic and the other two not, which is why I ask the above question. Maybe try the monitor device feature for a few minutes and watch the data flow to see if you can detect any gaps. Maybe the USB conversion HW isn't quite up to snuff.

Different devices but,

PowerFlarm to S8 57,600 baud rate max for Powerflarm S8 to Ultimate Le (SeeYou PNA) 256,000 baud rate

All works great.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[email protected]

September 7th 17, 01:18 AM

WRT baud rate, I would suggest setting to 57,600 if the Kobo can handle it. Your thought about CPU power is a good one. I don't really know but if I had to guess I would guess that the Kobo processor is pretty low end since all the device normally does is display relatively simple text.

R

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 4:24:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Actually, I don't know for sure that there aren't dropouts or interruptions in the GPS/baro sentences data streams, just that there are no hesitations or flickering. The "missing" FLARM target data appear for one or several seconds, then disappear. The climb rates are more often missing than displayed but when they do display, they're also there for one or more seconds. The same with the IDs on the targets.
>
> I
> I'll try "monitor device" this weekend. What am I looking for: a FLARM target sentence that only appears once in a while even though there's a target within range continuously? Can I test that without having other FLARM-equipped aircraft in range? I can say when testing on the ground that power traffic targets move smoothly across the map display without any erratic behavior. I can't recall if the erratic targets are more likely when there are a lot of them vs. just one or two.
>
> NOTE: found this in the FLARM Data Port Spec doc:
> Data on other proximate aircraft, intended for connected devices with sufficient CPU performance. This sentence should be treated with utmost flexibility and tolerance on a best effort base. Individual parameters may be empty. The sentence is only sent when port baud rate is 19.2k or higher. In case of serial port congestion or high CPU load, this sentence may be omitted for several objects independent of the alarm level.
>
> So if I set the baud rate higher on the FLARM and the Top Hat device, would that cause any problems?
>
> Chip Bearden
>
> On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 3:27:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Interesting situation... Are you really sure that the Kobo is getting all of the GPS and baromatric data? Or, is it possible that it is getting 50% - 75% of it but the data is transmitted so often (every second) that you don't discern any data packet loss from those streams?
> >
> > Like Rob, it is rather puzzling that one data stream is erratic and the other two not, which is why I ask the above question. Maybe try the monitor device feature for a few minutes and watch the data flow to see if you can detect any gaps. Maybe the USB conversion HW isn't quite up to snuff.