O.T. from Afganistan

[john]

this is from my nephew in Air Force.
john
take out the TRASH to email me





From Afghanistan, the story of the week:

So we are up in the mountains at about 0100 hrs looking for a bad guy
that we thought was in the area. Here are ten of us, pitch black,
crystal clear night, about 25 degrees. We know there are bad guys in
the area, a few shots have been fired but no big deal. We decide
that we need air cover and the only thing in the area is a solo B-1
bomber. He flies around at about 20,000 feet and tells us there is
nothing in the area. He then asks if we would like a low level show
of force. Stupid question. Of course we tell him yes. The
controller who is attached to the team then is heard talking to the
pilot. Pilot asks if we want it subsonic or supersonic. Very stupid
question. Pilot advises he is twenty miles out and stand by. The
controller gets us all sitting down in a line and points out the
proper location. You have to picture this. Pitch black, ten killers
sitting down, dead quiet and overlooking this 30 mile long valley.
All of a sudden, way out (below our level) you see a set of four
200' white flames coming at us. The controller says, "Ah-guys-you
might want to plug your ears".
Faster than you can think a B-1, supersonic, 1000' over our heads,
blasts the sound barrier and it feels like God just hit you in the
head with a hammer". He then stands it straight up with 4 white
trails of flame coming out and disappears. Cost of gas for that:
Probably $50,000

Hearing damage: For certain
Bunch of ragheads thinking twice about shooting at us: Priceless

[Jim Fisher]

"john" > wrote in message
He then stands it straight up with 4 white
> trails of flame coming out and disappears. Cost of gas for that:
> Probably $50,000
>
> Hearing damage: For certain
> Bunch of ragheads thinking twice about shooting at us: Priceless

That's just too cool, John.

Too bad we have that silly rule about not breaking sound barriers in
populated areas here in the states. I'd love to witness that some day.

I ain't going to Afghanistan to see it, though.

--
Jim Fisher

[Wdtabor]

>
>Too bad we have that silly rule about not breaking sound barriers in
>populated areas here in the states. I'd love to witness that some day.
>
>I ain't going to Afghanistan to see it, though.
>

Well, they didn't go supersonic, but at an airshow here at NAS Norfolk, a B-1
did a demo that included a slow flight pass, dirty, ending by sucking up the
gear and throwing in the burners in that nose high attitude. The resulting
BOOM! set off every car alarm on the base.

I was impressed.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[One's Too Many]

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message >...
> "john" > wrote in message
> He then stands it straight up with 4 white
> > trails of flame coming out and disappears. Cost of gas for that:
> > Probably $50,000
> >
> > Hearing damage: For certain
> > Bunch of ragheads thinking twice about shooting at us: Priceless
>
> That's just too cool, John.
>
> Too bad we have that silly rule about not breaking sound barriers in
> populated areas here in the states. I'd love to witness that some day.

True story supposedly, from two friends who told it to me, happened in
the late 1980's. They were fishing early one morning someplace in the
middle of nowhere northeast of the Abilene TX area, said they heard
nothing, no warning at all, dead silence not knowing anything was
about to occur when suddenly a pair of B-1B Lancers came screaming
over their heads maybe a couple hundred feet AGL with afterburners
glaring and sonic booms that knocked them out of their folding
lawnchairs, followed by the tremendous roar of the engines and
powerful turbulent wind blowing debris all around them on the ground
as the jets sped away. They said the experience was absolutely awesome
and they jumped up and down with joy, hooting and hollering like a
couple of rowdy drunken rednecks afterwards, wishing they'd turn
around and make another pass.

The location, Abilene, sounds about right since that's where the B1's
were based back then.

[John Galban]

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message >...
>
> Too bad we have that silly rule about not breaking sound barriers in
> populated areas here in the states. I'd love to witness that some day.
>

At an Airshow at NAS Fallon back in the '90s I experienced this "up
close and personal". I was standing by the taxiway when an F-18 made
a low level, high speed pass down the runway. He accidentally busted
mach 1 just as he passed the grandstand. The double crack of the boom
was like getting slapped with a giant invisible hand. It took a few
minutes to get my hearing back too.

The FAA observer at the show happened to be standing right next to
me. He was not happy.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[MDinzey]

>He accidentally busted
>mach 1 just as he passed the grandstand.

Yeah, suuure it was accidental! I watched an F-14 do the same thing, only about
3000 feet over the beach in Corolla NC last October. He pulled up and over,
onto his back, and then rolled level. Is that a split- S? Anyway, before he
headed back north, I heard a BIIG Double BOOM, and he was... Gone. I was on
the top deck of the rental house, cheering!
Matt

[Jim Baker]

"MDinzey" > wrote in message
...
> >He accidentally busted
> >mach 1 just as he passed the grandstand.
>
> Yeah, suuure it was accidental! I watched an F-14 do the same thing, only
about
> 3000 feet over the beach in Corolla NC last October. He pulled up and
over,
> onto his back, and then rolled level. Is that a split- S? Anyway, before
he
> headed back north, I heard a BIIG Double BOOM, and he was... Gone. I was
on
> the top deck of the rental house, cheering!
> Matt

It sounds like an Immelman. A wings level, climibing 180 degree turn with a
half roll at the top to right side up.

A Split S begins in level flight, half roll to inverted with a wings level
pull through to level flight going the other way. Sort of the opposite of
an Immelman

JB

[Jim Baker]

"Wdtabor" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >Too bad we have that silly rule about not breaking sound barriers in
> >populated areas here in the states. I'd love to witness that some day.
> >
> >I ain't going to Afghanistan to see it, though.
> >
>
> Well, they didn't go supersonic, but at an airshow here at NAS Norfolk, a
B-1
> did a demo that included a slow flight pass, dirty, ending by sucking up
the
> gear and throwing in the burners in that nose high attitude. The resulting
> BOOM! set off every car alarm on the base.
>
> I was impressed.
>
> --
> Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
> PP-ASEL
> Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

It's just as much fun to do it, Don!

Cheers,

JB

[Jim Baker]

"One's Too Many" > wrote in message
om...
> "Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
>...
> > "john" > wrote in message
> > He then stands it straight up with 4 white
> > > trails of flame coming out and disappears. Cost of gas for that:
> > > Probably $50,000
> > >
> > > Hearing damage: For certain
> > > Bunch of ragheads thinking twice about shooting at us: Priceless
> >
> > That's just too cool, John.
> >
> > Too bad we have that silly rule about not breaking sound barriers in
> > populated areas here in the states. I'd love to witness that some day.
>
> True story supposedly, from two friends who told it to me, happened in
> the late 1980's. They were fishing early one morning someplace in the
> middle of nowhere northeast of the Abilene TX area, said they heard
> nothing, no warning at all, dead silence not knowing anything was
> about to occur when suddenly a pair of B-1B Lancers came screaming
> over their heads maybe a couple hundred feet AGL with afterburners
> glaring and sonic booms that knocked them out of their folding
> lawnchairs, followed by the tremendous roar of the engines and
> powerful turbulent wind blowing debris all around them on the ground
> as the jets sped away. They said the experience was absolutely awesome
> and they jumped up and down with joy, hooting and hollering like a
> couple of rowdy drunken rednecks afterwards, wishing they'd turn
> around and make another pass.
>
> The location, Abilene, sounds about right since that's where the B1's
> were based back then.

I was flying B-1s at Dyess from 1986 to 1991. I'm sure your friends were
impressed with the flyover, and I don't doubt their word, but nobody was
flying less than 400 feet and no one was flying supersonic in that area in a
Bone. Fast I'm sure, but not ss.

The no warning feature is one of the great things about the B-1. Flying low
in B-52s, the wild horses and cattle can see and maybe hear you coming.
They start running as you approach. In the Bone, they never moved. Didn't
see or hear us. Odd.

Cheers,

JB

[Jay Beckman]

"Jim Baker" > wrote in message
...
>
> I was flying B-1s at Dyess from 1986 to 1991. I'm sure your friends were
> impressed with the flyover, and I don't doubt their word, but nobody was
> flying less than 400 feet and no one was flying supersonic in that area in
a
> Bone. Fast I'm sure, but not ss.
>
> The no warning feature is one of the great things about the B-1. Flying
low
> in B-52s, the wild horses and cattle can see and maybe hear you coming.
> They start running as you approach. In the Bone, they never moved.
Didn't
> see or hear us. Odd.
>
> Cheers,
>
> JB
>
>

JB,

Could it be that the BONE pushes less of a pressure wave out front?

Maybe the BUFF pushed enough air that animals could sense it (ala an
earthquake before it happens...) but the BONE is too clean?

Just musing out loud...

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
Student Pilot - KCHD
3.2 Hrs ... Nowhere to go but up!

[Jim Baker]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:UcU0c.22812$qL1.2255@fed1read02...
> "Jim Baker" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I was flying B-1s at Dyess from 1986 to 1991. I'm sure your friends
were
> > impressed with the flyover, and I don't doubt their word, but nobody was
> > flying less than 400 feet and no one was flying supersonic in that area
in
> a
> > Bone. Fast I'm sure, but not ss.
> >
> > The no warning feature is one of the great things about the B-1. Flying
> low
> > in B-52s, the wild horses and cattle can see and maybe hear you coming.
> > They start running as you approach. In the Bone, they never moved.
> Didn't
> > see or hear us. Odd.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > JB
> >
> >
>
> JB,
>
> Could it be that the BONE pushes less of a pressure wave out front?
>
> Maybe the BUFF pushed enough air that animals could sense it (ala an
> earthquake before it happens...) but the BONE is too clean?
>
> Just musing out loud...
>
> Jay Beckman
> Chandler, AZ
> Student Pilot - KCHD
> 3.2 Hrs ... Nowhere to go but up!

That very well could be Jay. I really don't know, but I think that it's the
visual "footprint". A Buff is a huge black figure in the sky, even coming
at you. The B-1, with wings swept, is a much small visual head on, I'd
guess, even to a horses/steers eye. LOL

Thirty years ago right now I was living in Chandler, actually at Williams
AFB. I was a student there from 10/72 until 10/73 and then stayed on until
6/76 as a T-38 IP. I was in Chandler about 6 years ago...much changed from
the '70s. What a great first assignment...really loved that area.

Regards,

JB

[Wdtabor]

In article <UcU0c.22812$qL1.2255@fed1read02>, "Jay Beckman"
> writes:

>
>Could it be that the BONE pushes less of a pressure wave out front?
>
>Maybe the BUFF pushed enough air that animals could sense it (ala an
>earthquake before it happens...) but the BONE is too clean?
>
>Just musing out loud...
>

That pressure wave moves at the speed of sound, just like the sound if the
aircraft is supersonic, and slower if subsonic.

But it is possible that sound conducted through the ground in response to the
approach of the aircraft arrives ahead of the sound in the air, and the B52
directs more energy downward into the earth than the B-1B.

But that is also just musing.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[John Galban]

(MDinzey) wrote in message >...
> >He accidentally busted
> >mach 1 just as he passed the grandstand.
>
> Yeah, suuure it was accidental!

I'm pretty sure it was. The FAA man gave the squadron commander an
earful at the time. I had to wait an extra hour for my buddy (who was
part of the airshow) to come out of the debrief, he said most of the
delay was the yelling and screaming about the guy who busted mach.
Unless your name is Maverick, you don't get away with that kind of
stuff in the Navy.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Paul Sengupta]

"Wdtabor" > wrote in message
...
> Well, they didn't go supersonic, but at an airshow here at NAS Norfolk, a
B-1
> did a demo that included a slow flight pass, dirty, ending by sucking up
the
> gear and throwing in the burners in that nose high attitude. The resulting
> BOOM! set off every car alarm on the base.
>
> I was impressed.

I used to go to Heathrow every so often to stand under Concorde as it
took off to get the same sensation. It would also set off all the car alarms
at Hatton Cross if it took off on 09.

Difference is, at an airshow you have to be on a line parallel to the flight
line...at Heathrow, you can stand right under it! :-)

Paul

[Paul Sengupta]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:UcU0c.22812$qL1.2255@fed1read02...
> "Jim Baker" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The no warning feature is one of the great things about the B-1. Flying
> low
> > in B-52s, the wild horses and cattle can see and maybe hear you coming.
> > They start running as you approach. In the Bone, they never moved.
> Didn't
> > see or hear us. Odd.
>
> Could it be that the BONE pushes less of a pressure wave out front?

Well, travelling just below mach 1 doesn't give much time for the sound
to arrive before you do.

Paul

[Paul Sengupta]

Back during the testing of the Hawker Hunter in the 1950s, they
were tested at supersonic speeds (in a dive) around Surrey and
Sussex (the area I currently live in), flying out of Dunsfold. I recently
read Neville Duke's autobiography (test pilot) and he describes the
first time he realised he'd gone past mach 1...it was when one of the
locals said to him in the pub "Good run this morning". It had generated
"one of they queer bangs".

Paul

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
. ..
> Too bad we have that silly rule about not breaking sound barriers in
> populated areas here in the states. I'd love to witness that some day.

[David CL Francis]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 at 15:00:50 in message
>, Paul Sengupta
> wrote:
>Back during the testing of the Hawker Hunter in the 1950s, they
>were tested at supersonic speeds (in a dive) around Surrey and
>Sussex (the area I currently live in), flying out of Dunsfold. I recently
>read Neville Duke's autobiography (test pilot) and he describes the
>first time he realised he'd gone past mach 1...it was when one of the
>locals said to him in the pub "Good run this morning". It had generated
>"one of they queer bangs".

During some Farnborough Air Shows in the early 1950s sonic 'booms' were
a regular feature. On that tragic day in August 1952 we heard sonic
booms from the Hunter and the ill-fated DH110 which produced a well
aimed 'boom' shortly before its arrival in the circuit and its
catastrophic break up in the air which killed, I think, 28 people.

Some parts of that day were engraved into my memory.

In addition, later at Filton, parts of the Bristol area were
deliberately subjected to 'booms' as part of an experiment to see how
people might react to Concorde. Those I believe were produced by USA
F100 Super Sabres.
--
David CL Francis

[G.R. Patterson III]

David CL Francis wrote:
>
> During some Farnborough Air Shows in the early 1950s sonic 'booms' were
> a regular feature.

I remember hearing them in the '50s in East Tennessee. Not part of an airshow,
though.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[Morgans]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> David CL Francis wrote:
> >
> > During some Farnborough Air Shows in the early 1950s sonic 'booms' were
> > a regular feature.
>
> I remember hearing them in the '50s in East Tennessee. Not part of an
airshow,
> though.
>
> George Patterson

I lived 5 miles from a Guard F-100 base. I thought almost daily booms were
a normal thing, while growing up. I miss them. I wonder how many others
would mind having them come back. It would make a new SST a viable project,
if I'm right.
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.608 / Virus Database: 388 - Release Date: 3/3/2004

[G.R. Patterson III]

Morgans wrote:
>
> It would make a new SST a viable project, if I'm right.

The only thing that would make an SST a viable project in the U.S. is if Boeing
were to build it. The fact that non-US firms were the only ones building SSTs was
the only thing that got the anti-sonic-boom stuff through Congress in the first
place. That era saw a tremendous amount of protectionist legislation, much of it
in the guise of "safety".

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[John Galban]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message >...
> Morgans wrote:
> >
> > It would make a new SST a viable project, if I'm right.
>
> The only thing that would make an SST a viable project in the U.S. is if Boeing
> were to build it. The fact that non-US firms were the only ones building SSTs was
> the only thing that got the anti-sonic-boom stuff through Congress in the first
> place. That era saw a tremendous amount of protectionist legislation, much of it
> in the guise of "safety".
>

I'm not so sure about that. Back in the 60s when SSTs were being
considered, the AF conducted tests by generating booms over populated
areas in the midwest, to see if the public would accept it. The
general response was negative. It wasn't just the sound. The broken
windows and cracked plaster had a more negative affect.

The severity depends on where you are in relation to the aircraft.
If you're directly below it, the vibration can be pretty severe.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Paul Sengupta]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > David CL Francis wrote:
> > >
> > > During some Farnborough Air Shows in the early 1950s sonic 'booms'
were
> > > a regular feature.
> >
> > I remember hearing them in the '50s in East Tennessee. Not part of an
> airshow,
> > though.
> >
> > George Patterson
>
> I lived 5 miles from a Guard F-100 base. I thought almost daily booms
were
> a normal thing, while growing up. I miss them.

Regarding Farnborough, indeed this was the case. In fact, Neville Duke was
told
go up and display the Hunter, including sonic booms, directly after John
Derry's
tragic accident. The organisers wanted to divert attention away from the
crash.
There was a "the show must go on" attitude which wouldn't even be considered
these days. Neville Duke says he felt he had to do it despite John Derry and
his
wife being good friends of his. John Derry's wife was watching at the time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/low/dates/stories/september/6/newsid_2981000
/2981786.stm
(or http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y258213C7 )

Paul

[David CL Francis]

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 at 13:40:57 in message
>, Paul Sengupta
> wrote:

>Regarding Farnborough, indeed this was the case. In fact, Neville Duke
>was told go up and display the Hunter, including sonic booms, directly
>after John Derry's tragic accident. The organisers wanted to divert
>attention away from the crash.

Neville Duke was not the first to fly after the crash. A Vampire, I
think, was waiting for take-off clearance and waited there while small
pieces were swept off the runway in front of him before he took off and
continued.

I don't think that diverting attention was the reason for continuing, I
suspect that the reason was to avoid a sudden rush of people leaving.
Quite a lot did leave but others stayed, as I did. I had no choice, we
had come by coach and we had to wait until it was due to leave. My
feeling, I recall, was that they were right to continue in a subdued
fashion.

My recollection is that the DH110 sonic boom came a little while before
we saw the aircraft. It made one pass along the crowd and then curved
away in a large circle until it was at right angles to the runway and
the ground line and heading straight towards it. I understand that John
Derry normally did a rolling pull up at that point (a high load case for
an aircraft). As the nose came up the aircraft flew apart. Engraved in
my mind is the tailplane (stabiliser) breaking in two near the middle
and then being aware that the engines were coming straight toward me.

Preoccupied with their trajectory I realised that they were going right
overhead. They did not tumble but went straight. I then noticed the two
booms and a a part of the centre section falling some way away - perhaps
more than half a mile. They fell almost straight down, twisting as they
went.

Then, out of the corner of my eye, I caught sight of a large object
striking the ground just in front of the crowd line and about 100 yards
to my left. I afterwards discovered that that was the forward part of
the fuselage and contained the crew. It was close to the impact of that
that someone clicked his camera and produced that amazing picture. My
father studied it and sent me a marked up copy where you could make out
a pair of goggles and a pair of head phones in mid-air. It must be one
of the most striking and gruesome crash pictures ever taken.

I then stood there and heard small pieces of aircraft falling to the
ground around me.

--
David CL Francis