Re: Lessons from Another Sport about the Elite

[Morgan[_2_]]

Solid observation. I recently got an email from a club member about our upcoming contest asking about ways to let people fly during the contest that didn't want to compete. What struck me most was the use of terms like "top guns" or "elite" in reference less experienced pilots not wanting to get in the way.

We are fortunate to have a small low key contest that attracts some big names, in part due to the fact they live within several hours drive. My experience as a competitor and contest organizer has been that none of the "elite" act remotely elite. You could hang out and never realize that you're surrounded by 3 or 4 national champions or world team members.

One reason for people feeling this way is probably due to the fact that many of the top pilots have been competing for quite a while and contests are like reunions of sorts where they get to see old friends. Other top guns, and of course, you take the opportunity to hang out. That can probably make it seem hard to break into that circle or make it seem like there are different cliques.

So far, I have never been turned away from a post flying BS session or a pre-flight talk because I hadn't been to a Nationals or flown an official regional. Just drumming up the courage to walk across the field and sit down with a group of champions is usually enough to earn you a beer, wine, water or whatever and a chance to make new friends.

We make up most of the walls and hierarchies ourselves.

If people don't want to compete, that's perfectly fine, but I would like to figure out how to help them break down the walls they have built.

Morgan




On Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:27:45 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> As I get older, one of the frustrations is the sense I get that the part of soaring that has been most rewarding for me--competition--is still viewed by some as elitist and exclusionary. Even the perception that competition pilots--especially the better pilots--may consider themselves to be above the rest of us might inhibit many from trying their hand at competitive soaring.
>
>
>
> The same kinds of real and imagined hierarchies exist in other sports. I've been involved in running for over 35 years and have been running marathons for much of that time. In any running club, there are the hot shoes who win trophies at local races, the club racers, the joggers, the walkers, and everyone in between. We all show up at the group runs but sometimes there's an uneasy sense that the fast runners keep to themselves, or that only the slower runners can celebrate a newbie's first 5K race. This isn't entirely without reason. We all have egos and those who are insecure can sometimes come across badly. But it seems like the better the runner, the less he or she needs to prove and the more likely they are to encourage those who aren't as fast.
>
>
>
> This week someone posted a link to article entitled "An Elite State of Mind: Learning Humility from the Fastest Runners in the World". I thought it was one of the best things I'd ever read about keeping things in perspective in sports and even in life, so I've included the link below.
>
>
>
> Even if the thought of running leaves you more tired than thinking about getting your taxes done before 15 April, I encourage you to read it, substituting "pilot" for "runner" and "soaring" for "running" (and "Uvalde" for "Boston"!) wherever they occur. If you read nothing else, scroll down to the last few paragraphs.
>
>
>
> I can't tell you what the world's best runners really think. I can tell you from experience that the best competition pilots in our country are, with a very few exceptions, as self-effacing and humble and generous with their time and as excited to see less skilled pilots advance as these Kenyan world-class runners are said to be.
>
>
>
> http://m.runnersworld.com/race-training/elite-state-mind?page=single
>
>
>
> I hope you enjoy it and, if you haven't yet entered your first contest, that you set yourself a goal of doing so this year.
>
>
>
> Chip Bearden
>
> ASW 24 "JB"
>
> U.S.A.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Sunday, March 17, 2013 11:14:44 PM UTC-6, Morgan wrote:
> Solid observation. I recently got an email from a club member about our upcoming contest asking about ways to let people fly during the contest that didn't want to compete. What struck me most was the use of terms like "top guns" or "elite" in reference less experienced pilots not wanting to get in the way.
>
>
>
> We are fortunate to have a small low key contest that attracts some big names, in part due to the fact they live within several hours drive. My experience as a competitor and contest organizer has been that none of the "elite" act remotely elite. You could hang out and never realize that you're surrounded by 3 or 4 national champions or world team members.
>
>
>
> One reason for people feeling this way is probably due to the fact that many of the top pilots have been competing for quite a while and contests are like reunions of sorts where they get to see old friends. Other top guns, and of course, you take the opportunity to hang out. That can probably make it seem hard to break into that circle or make it seem like there are different cliques.
>
>
>
> So far, I have never been turned away from a post flying BS session or a pre-flight talk because I hadn't been to a Nationals or flown an official regional. Just drumming up the courage to walk across the field and sit down with a group of champions is usually enough to earn you a beer, wine, water or whatever and a chance to make new friends.
>
>
>
> We make up most of the walls and hierarchies ourselves.
>
>
>
> If people don't want to compete, that's perfectly fine, but I would like to figure out how to help them break down the walls they have built.
>
>
>
> Morgan
>
Morgan,

You are quite correct. Furthermore, US soaring pilots have a golden opportunity to meet, engage, and mingle with many of the names they see in Soaring by attending the SSA conventions and regional and local seminars and other events. The convention allows you to get face to face with more pilots and many of the movers and shakers in the sport. Too many attendees often show up for a day or even just an afternoon. You miss out if you do that. I believe you really need to be there on Wednesday (or earlier for the FIRC) and stay through breakfast on Sunday. With modern sailplane tracking taking another shift forward, you may find yourself rooting for a your favorite pilot (that you've finally met in person) in near real time. At the recent SSA gathering in Houston, a former club mate of mine (USN jet instructor and outstanding CFI-G) commented about how cool it was to meet some the names he had only read about. Plus he got to compare current Navy pilot training with Ralph Kolstad, who took his jet training 40 years ago. Surprising how little things have changed;^). Another venue is the annual Barnaby Lecture which is planned for Denver in October this year. Even my wife enjoyed John Cochrane's presentation in Chicago. Last year, Greg Cole's Perlan presentation in Charlotte was wonderful, as was Chip Garner's in Wichita. Indeed, each Barnaby lecture I've attended was outstanding, especially if you have this soaring disease. I've always been surprised at how few local pilots attend these. Like the conventions, they are not to be missed.

Are there unapproachable elites in soaring? Yeah, some that wannabe, but not names you'd recognize.

Frank Whiteley

[Dan Marotta]

<snip>...
"Frank Whiteley" > wrote in message
...

Are there unapproachable elites in soaring? Yeah, some that wannabe, but
not names you'd recognize.

Frank Whiteley

Well, there was this asshole in Boulder who approached my partner and I just
to tell us that there shouldn't be a flag on the tail of our glider unless
we'd flown in the nationals.

The flag was on the LS-6a when we bought it. BTW, it was the one that DJ
flew in Rieti in '85.

[[email protected]]

>
> Well, there was this asshole in Boulder who approached my partner and I just
>
> to tell us that there shouldn't be a flag on the tail of our glider unless
>
> we'd flown in the nationals.
>
Dan - I always thought the US flag on the tail was to indicate the pilot or the glider had represented the US internationally (WGC, etc.)???

In rowing, only current or former national team members shoudl row with oars painted with the US "flag" oars.

Tim EY

[BobW]

On 3/17/2013 11:14 PM, Morgan wrote:
> Solid observation. I recently got an email from a club member about our
> upcoming contest asking about ways to let people fly during the contest
> that didn't want to compete. What struck me most was the use of terms like
> "top guns" or "elite" in reference less experienced pilots not wanting to
> get in the way.
>
> We are fortunate to have a small low key contest that attracts some big
> names, in part due to the fact they live within several hours drive. My
> experience as a competitor and contest organizer has been that none of the
> "elite" act remotely elite. You could hang out and never realize that
> you're surrounded by 3 or 4 national champions or world team members.
>
> One reason for people feeling this way is probably due to the fact that
> many of the top pilots have been competing for quite a while and contests
> are like reunions of sorts where they get to see old friends. Other top
> guns, and of course, you take the opportunity to hang out. That can
> probably make it seem hard to break into that circle or make it seem like
> there are different cliques.
>
> So far, I have never been turned away from a post flying BS session or a
> pre-flight talk because I hadn't been to a Nationals or flown an official
> regional. Just drumming up the courage to walk across the field and sit
> down with a group of champions is usually enough to earn you a beer, wine,
> water or whatever and a chance to make new friends.
>
> We make up most of the walls and hierarchies ourselves.
>
> If people don't want to compete, that's perfectly fine, but I would like to
> figure out how to help them break down the walls they have built.
>
> Morgan
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:27:45 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>> As I get older, one of the frustrations is the sense I get that the part
>> of soaring that has been most rewarding for me--competition--is still
>> viewed by some as elitist and exclusionary. Even the perception that
>> competition pilots--especially the better pilots--may consider themselves
>> to be above the rest of us might inhibit many from trying their hand at
>> competitive soaring.
>>
>>
>>
>> The same kinds of real and imagined hierarchies exist in other sports.
>>
<Thoughtful stuff snipped to scoot to excellent/thoughtful/pertinent link>
>>
>> http://m.runnersworld.com/race-training/elite-state-mind?page=single
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope you enjoy it and, if you haven't yet entered your first contest,
>> that you set yourself a goal of doing so this year.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chip Bearden
>>
>> ASW 24 "JB"
>>
>> U.S.A.

Writing as a non-competition pilot, "What Morgan and Chip said." I first
encountered what I seriously suspected were "self-constructed/self-inflicted
walls" in the 1990s, some 20+ years after discovering the sport. Even wrote a
prolix article about it which found its way into "Soaring" mag in February 1999.

If you know of any SSA members whom you think might be working behind
self-created walls, feel free to point 'em in the direction of the article; if
nothing else maybe they'll learn about the awesome online magazine archive!

Bob W.

[kirk.stant]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 4:35:56 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> >
>
> > Well, there was this asshole in Boulder who approached my partner and I just
>
> >
>
> > to tell us that there shouldn't be a flag on the tail of our glider unless
>
> >
>
> > we'd flown in the nationals.
>
> >
>
> Dan - I always thought the US flag on the tail was to indicate the pilot or the glider had represented the US internationally (WGC, etc.)???
>
>
>
> In rowing, only current or former national team members shoudl row with oars painted with the US "flag" oars.
>
>
>
> Tim EY

I never heard that - and I've been flying with a US flag on my LS6 tail since 9/11. If someone doesn't like it - too effing bad!

Last time I checked, didn't have any oarlocks in my cockpit, either...

Kirk
66

(Who rowed stroke and 7 in wooden 8s, way back in high school, on the Potomac from the Watergate boathouse. Still got a busted oar in my garage...)

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 1:23:45 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Monday, March 18, 2013 4:35:56 PM UTC+1, wrote:
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Well, there was this asshole in Boulder who approached my partner and I just to tell us that there shouldn't be a flag on the tail of our glider unless we'd flown in the nationals.
> >
>
> > Dan - I always thought the US flag on the tail was to indicate the pilot or the glider had represented the US internationally (WGC, etc.)???
>
> > In rowing, only current or former national team members shoudl row with oars painted with the US "flag" oars.
>
> > Tim EY
>
> I never heard that - and I've been flying with a US flag on my LS6 tail since 9/11. If someone doesn't like it - too effing bad!
>
> Last time I checked, didn't have any oarlocks in my cockpit, either...
>
> Kirk
>
> 66
>
> (Who rowed stroke and 7 in wooden 8s, way back in high school, on the Potomac from the Watergate boathouse. Still got a busted oar in my garage...)

Never heard this one either. Considering that 10's of thousands of aircraft in the US proudly sport the US flag on their tail feathers, I'd just assumed that it carried over to gliders without any extra "baggage". I agree - eff em if they get their knickers in a twist over something like this.

P3

[Wayne Paul]

> "Papa3" wrote in message
> ...
>
> > (Who rowed stroke and 7 in wooden 8s, way back in high school, on the
> > Potomac from the Watergate boathouse. Still got a busted oar in my
> > garage...)
>
> Never heard this one either. Considering that 10's of thousands of
> aircraft in the US proudly sport the US flag on their tail feathers, I'd
> just assumed that it carried over to gliders without any extra
> "baggage". I agree - eff em if they get their knickers in a twist over
> something like this.
>
> P3

Flags of all kinds are found on U.S. vehicles. Most are simply a statement
of national pride in either their citizenship or national heritage.

One of the small communities in the mountains north of where I live was
settled by emigrants from Finland in the early 1900s. They still worship in
a small Finnish country church. So I wasn't surprised to see a Finnish flag
appear on the tail of a Duster that was a gift to a descendant of a Finnish
pioneer.

If the flag bothers the "Elite" I'm sure the owner's initials appearing
where the contest should be will add fuel to the fire. (BTW, I once
considered doing a "Blue Angles" paint job on my HP-14 including replicas of
my Gold Wings on each side of the cockpit. I wonder how many complaints that
would have precipitated?)

The Duster was a surprise birthday gift. Here are some pictures from the
party.
http://www.soaridaho.com/Misc/IMG_0688.JPG
http://www.soaridaho.com/Misc/IMG_0690.JPG
http://www.soaridaho.com/Misc/IMG_0698.JPG

Wayne

[Dan Marotta]

Yes, that particular glider had won the World Championships in 1985. I was
not the pilot, however, but I didn't see the need to peel off the flag.


> wrote in message
...
>>
>> Well, there was this asshole in Boulder who approached my partner and I
>> just
>>
>> to tell us that there shouldn't be a flag on the tail of our glider
>> unless
>>
>> we'd flown in the nationals.
>>
> Dan - I always thought the US flag on the tail was to indicate the pilot
> or the glider had represented the US internationally (WGC, etc.)???
>
> In rowing, only current or former national team members shoudl row with
> oars painted with the US "flag" oars.
>
> Tim EY

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Mar 18, 8:25*am, "Dan Marotta" > wrote:

> Well, there was this [person] in Boulder who approached my partner
> and I just to tell us that there shouldn't be a flag on the tail of our glider
> unless we'd flown in the nationals.

When I put a US flag on a glider, it's to show where it was built.

[Don Johnstone[_4_]]

According to the feeback on Facebook from the UK pilots who competed at
Uvalde in 2012 the contest was a really good experience. The members of the
team had nothing but praise for the way the constest was organised, the
hospitality, and the general ambience. For us back home it was also a good
experience, I sat up until the early hours of the morning watching the
tracking and mavelling at the conditions. If you can run a worlds like that
where is the difficulty in running regional comps? You obviously have the
expertise.
Regional Comps in the UK attract pilots of all levels, some in what many
would say were uncompetetive gliders but everyone enjoys themselves,
including the guys who compete in the worlds. They have to fly in the
smaller comps to qualify for the national and international competitions.
From what I read on here you have awful difficulty with some of your rules
and I would find that very off putting, too much regulation spoils
enjoyment. We have rules over here and they are updated every year but only
things necessary for fair competition and safety are included in the rules.
From time to time there are arguments but in general everyone acccepts
them. It does help that the rules are made by the BGA competitions
committee which consists entirely of pilots who fly in competitions.

[Tom Claffey]

Same in Australia,
Only gliders which fly World Comps have a Kangaroo on the tail,
I owned one for some years. my new glider has no Roo even though I flew
last 2 WGCs. We leave roos on the tails after the comps, some of the owners

treasure them.
Tom



23:33 18 March 2013, Dan Marotta wrote:
>Yes, that particular glider had won the World Championships in 1985. I
was
>
>not the pilot, however, but I didn't see the need to peel off the flag.
>
>
> wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> Well, there was this asshole in Boulder who approached my partner and
I
>>> just
>>>
>>> to tell us that there shouldn't be a flag on the tail of our glider
>>> unless
>>>
>>> we'd flown in the nationals.
>>>
>> Dan - I always thought the US flag on the tail was to indicate the pilot

>> or the glider had represented the US internationally (WGC, etc.)???
>>
>> In rowing, only current or former national team members shoudl row with

>> oars painted with the US "flag" oars.
>>
>> Tim EY
>
>

[Tony[_5_]]

Great article. I've been lucky enough to spend just a little time with some really good pilots and have always enjoyed the experience. I attended a week at Uvalde with a friend/student of mine who at that time had just gotten his private-glider cert. We were able to get involved with helping out many of the US Team pilots and they were all really friendly back to us. I don't think they realized how much fun it was for us to help them. To us it woudl be the equivalent of showing up at a NASCAR race and during the driver meet & greet having Jimmie Johnson ask you to be on his pit crew.