Got to land a King Air 90 today...

[Jay Honeck]

And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
happened:

Mary and I were at the inn yesterday, working desperately to get our new
Blackbird Suite ready for prime time -- it was booked for the weekend, and
we still had over 20 pieces of art to hang! (And you don't just hang 'em on
a nail in a hotel suite.) Plus some plumbing, and touch up paint, and...

Into the midst of this chaos strolled Ron, our airport FBO manager, just
poking around and being friendly, hoping to see how all of our cool SR-71
stuff was coming together. Seemingly out of no where, he asked "How'd you
like to come along with me on a Part 91 charter flight tonight?"

Looking around the room to see if he was talking to me, I politely
declined -- there was just too much to be done here, and too little time
left to do it. Besides, I was a lowly VFR private pilot -- not even
multi-engine rated! Still, I glanced sheepishly over at Mary, who just
rolled her eyes and started laughing -- she knew as well as I did that this
could be a "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity. She shrugged and said "Go!" --
and within minutes I was OUTTA there! :-)

The plan was deceptively simple: The King Air was owned by a neurosurgeon,
and he had donated this flight to his alma mater (a small college in
Burlington, IA) for the use of their basketball coaching staff. They needed
to fly to Omaha, NE, watch a high school basketball game, and try to recruit
one of the star athletes to play basketball at their college. We'd go pick
'em up, fly 'em to Omaha, cool our jets for a few hours, and then fly them
home -- simple!

One big hitch: The neurosurgeon needed his King Air left in Burlington at
the end of the day, so that he could depart for Florida the next morning.
(Today.) We, on the other hand, needed to get back to Iowa City somehow.

The solution? We would fly ourselves home, in the wee hours, in a rental
Cessna 150.

So, I was off to play charter pilot for the evening! Donning my best
leather jacket, plus shirt and a tie, I hoped that my appearance and calm
demeanor would mask my utter and complete incompetence from our passengers.
I didn't even know how to lower the seat arm-rests, but they didn't need to
know that! ("Hmmm...it must be jammed...")

Settling into the co-pilot's seat, I faced a bewildering array of dials,
switches, buttons, valves, and displays. Ron patiently explained everything
he was doing to start the twin 550 horsepower turboprop engines, and I
grinned as I yelled "clear!" -- this was cool! The big paddle blades
slowly began to revolve until they were a complete -- but incredibly
smooth -- blur. Then, onto the other engine, and we were soon taxiing to
Rwy 12 for departure.

Ron decided to let me do everything, much to my surprise and glee. Steering
the King Air took the expected amount of effort, but I zigged and zagged
down the taxiway anyway, over-steering the whole way. Before taking the
runway Ron went through a few basic emergency procedures which could
politely be summed up as "Keep your hands off of everything, and your mouth
shut" in the event of an engine failure on take-off. Then a few more
switches were thrown to arm some automated systems, and we were trundling
out onto the runway.

Getting the plane aligned with the runway, he told me to simply apply power
smoothly up to a certain percentage, and steer the plane down the
centerline -- he would call out airspeeds and rotation. As I did so I
apparently did it asymmetrically, cuz we started a gentle weaving down the
runway. Those 1100 horses really hooked up with the props, and within
seconds we were at rotation speed. Unexpectedly soon, I found myself
staring at the sky -- we were climbing out at 2500 feet per minute!

Our flight to Burlington was brief, but full of instruction. I felt like I
was trying to drink from a fire-hose as I tried to figure out how (and
where) everything was and how everything worked. I hand flew the whole
way, and happily discovered that the King Air is surprisingly responsive and
light on the controls. In fact, it didn't really feel too much different
than my Pathfinder, but things sure happened more quickly! We were
zipping along at 240 knots in no time at all, and before I had even time to
think about it, Ron was talking me into the pattern for Rwy 13 at
Burlington.

For some reason I expected him to take the controls at a certain point, but
it soon became apparent that he had more faith in me than I did in myself.
He worked the power while I flew the pattern, and -- other than making a
bigger pattern -- I found the King Air to be surprisingly easy to horse
around. Getting that big pig to slide down the glideslope was a real
pleasure, and that sturdy landing gear made for a pretty decent landing, if
I do say so myself. I could feel myself sitting up a little straighter in
the seat as I taxied to the ramp, but I gladly let Ron take the controls
when we got too close to some big (and expensive) obstacles.

Those wings stick WAAAY out there.

A few other observations about the King Air:

1. It's actually louder in a King Air cockpit wearing standard headphones,
than without them. The non-ANR headphones attenuate the high end, and leave
the low frequency thrumming of those big propellers, beating the air just
inches away. Without the headphones, all you hear is the hissing of the
pressurization.

2. If you're thinking about renting one of these puppies, they cost $15 per
MINUTE to operate. That's a cool $900 per hour, boys and girls.

3. It's strange to be flying "Balls to the wall" all the time, when you're
accustomed to pleasure flying. Since turbo-props are so incredibly
expensive to operate, all emphasis is on getting up, and down, quickly. All
descents are at red-line, and -- since it is pressurized -- you don't have
to worry about anyone's inner ears. There's no site-seeing going on in a
King Air, that's for sure. (I now understand why so many of these guys come
blasting into the pattern from all sorts of odd angles.... Time really IS
money for them.)

4. You can't easily pre-flight a King Air as thoroughly as you can a Spam
Can. Heck, you can't even see the gas caps until you're in the cockpit,
making it pretty hard to visually inspect your fuel. Of course, the fuel
gauges actually work in a King Air.

Once we picked up our passengers, my fun was over for a while. With the
paying folks in back, we were all business, and I simply observed the goings
on with my hands in my lap. I couldn't even help with the radios, since
they were Collins brand and of a type I'd never used before. So, I helped
with squawk codes and clearances as best I could, made sure the passengers
had cold pop and were warm enough, and we were soon cruising in the flight
levels, racing into the setting sun at 250 knots. What a way to spend an
evening!

Landing at an incredibly busy Eppley Airfield was "interesting," as we had
to side-step at the last minute from Runway 14L to Runway 14R. This put us
into the wake of a 737, and I was really glad that Ron was doing the flying.
Within minutes our passengers were enroute to their game, and we found
ourselves with several hours on our hands -- what to do?

What else do you do in Omaha -- you find STEAKS -- lots of steaks!
Borrowing the crew car we were soon in old Downtown Omaha, eating the best
16-ounce ribeye I'd ever tasted at the Upstream Brewery
(http://www.upstreambrewing.com ) Omaha beef is the very best, and we
could cut our steaks with a fork.

(Incredibly, Mary and I had visited this restaurant several years ago when
we had flown in for a visit to the Strategic Air Command Museum. Ron and I
had simply randomly followed the airport staff's recommendation, and I wound
up back at the very same restaurant!)

After a couple of hours of pleasant conversation, we had solved all the
world's problems and were working our way back to the airport. We then
killed another 45 minutes shooting the breeze with other line-pilots, all
awaiting their charges. Sitting in a big lazy boy, watching the "Hitler
Channel", chewing the fat with fellow pilots -- could it get any better?
:-)

Soon our passengers returned, and we were thankful that it was a "school
night" for them -- they weren't in a "Party Mood" that might have delayed
our departure by several more hours. Within minutes we had picked up our
clearance from an obviously bored and lonely controller, and we were soon
clawing our way back up into the flight levels at better than 2000 feet per
minute. Cleared direct to 21,000 feet, we soared eastbound through a
crystal-clear, moon-lit sky at better than 300 knots, as comfortable as I am
right now. The air was smooth, and from our lofty vantage point we were
able to see the lights of Omaha, Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, and a
zillion other smaller towns, all at once. It was incredible.

Our arrival at Burlington was uneventful, and we found ourselves taxiing up
to a completely deserted terminal building. Burlington has daily regional
airline service, but they obviously roll up the sidewalks after 10 PM -- cuz
we had the place entirely to ourselves.

Bidding our fares a good night -- they had been a fun, undemanding bunch --
we scurried to the T-hangar where our good Doctor's little 150 was awaiting.
The temperature had dropped into the 20s, and we weren't dressed for being
outside for long. Our fatigue and the late hour had us shivering as we
discovered -- much to our horror -- a padlocked hangar door! The doctor
had forgotten to leave his hangar door open for us...

What to do? It was pushing midnight, in a strange town, with a closed FBO
and terminal, and we had no way home. The only place we could get warm was
back in the King Air, so we lowered the air stair and clambered back aboard
the still-warm airplane. Ron fruitlessly tried calling all of his
contacts, but no one would answer. My mood sank as I contemplated a cold
night in Burlington...

Suddenly a small car pulled up beside us, and honked his horn. Our
neurosurgeon had been stuck in emergency surgery, and had driven straight to
us, still wearing his scrubs! He apologetically unlocked his door, thanked
us for our patience, and sped off to re-join his colleagues at the hospital.

Now, I may very well be the only pilot in the world to have never flown in a
Cessna 150. With over 800 hours, and nine years of flying, I had simply
never had the pleasure, having simply skipped straight into 4-seat aircraft
from the get-go. So, it was something of a shock to discover just how SMALL
they really were! Ron weighed in at over 250 pounds, and I'm pushing
190 -- so we were well over gross.

Worse, in order to get my door closed I found that I had to turn sideways
toward Ron, put my arm behind his seat, and practically hug him. We're good
friends and all, thankfully, but I sure don't see how you could actually
learn to fly in one of these things. One thing's for sure: After 20 hours
I'll bet you're REAL good friends with your CFI!

Taxiing out to the runway for departure, I couldn't help but marvel at the
contrast. I had just landed in an aircraft with literally every bell and
whistle, from a coupled autopilot, to radar, to a strike finder, to TCAS.
Now, I was rolling in a clapped out little 1967 Cessna 150, with a run-out
engine, a single VOR and a single COM radio. What an amazing change of
pace!

Starting down the runway, we were all noise and little progress. The poor
thing just wouldn't leave Mother Earth! After a 3000 foot roll, we finally
broke ground into a wobbling, anemic 200 fpm climb. Like the "Little Engine
That Could" we chugged into the sky, and I was never more aware of the huge
number of lit antennas in the area. They were EVERYWHERE, and mostly above
us!

Straining on up to 3000 feet, we were able to forego the VOR and simply fly
toward the lights of Iowa City, clearly visible on the horizon. With a
respectable tail-wind, we were in Iowa City in 30 minutes, with Ron trying
to figure out how to land something so slowly. It was our worst landing of
the day, and we both had to laugh. It was 12:30 AM, and I was glad to be
home.

Ron, who does this all the time, was facing another 30 minutes on the road
to find his bed. I don't know how he does it.

5:30 AM came mighty early today. But I wouldn't have traded last night for
anything!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Louis L. Perley III]

Jay,
I'm green with envy! What an awesome way to spend the evening! I know
what you mean with a Cessna 150, I fly the venerable C152, but I'm almost
always the only one in the plane. Flying solo isn't so bad, I just wish I
had better range since I'm not needing to get anywhere fast, but would like
to fly without having to land so often. Then again, if I flew a King Air, I
guess I would just have to change my destinations to somewhere where speed
and range came into play.

How does it feel to have turbine time in your logbook?

--
Louis Perley III
N46000 - KBJC

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:r5U%b.419957$xy6.2394396@attbi_s02...
> And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
> happened:
>
> Mary and I were at the inn yesterday, working desperately to get our new
> Blackbird Suite ready for prime time -- it was booked for the weekend, and
> we still had over 20 pieces of art to hang! (And you don't just hang 'em
on
> a nail in a hotel suite.) Plus some plumbing, and touch up paint, and...
>
> Into the midst of this chaos strolled Ron, our airport FBO manager, just
> poking around and being friendly, hoping to see how all of our cool SR-71
> stuff was coming together. Seemingly out of no where, he asked "How'd you
> like to come along with me on a Part 91 charter flight tonight?"
>
> Looking around the room to see if he was talking to me, I politely
> declined -- there was just too much to be done here, and too little time
> left to do it. Besides, I was a lowly VFR private pilot -- not even
> multi-engine rated! Still, I glanced sheepishly over at Mary, who just
> rolled her eyes and started laughing -- she knew as well as I did that
this
> could be a "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity. She shrugged and said
"Go!" --
> and within minutes I was OUTTA there! :-)
>
> The plan was deceptively simple: The King Air was owned by a
neurosurgeon,
> and he had donated this flight to his alma mater (a small college in
> Burlington, IA) for the use of their basketball coaching staff. They
needed
> to fly to Omaha, NE, watch a high school basketball game, and try to
recruit
> one of the star athletes to play basketball at their college. We'd go
pick
> 'em up, fly 'em to Omaha, cool our jets for a few hours, and then fly them
> home -- simple!
>
> One big hitch: The neurosurgeon needed his King Air left in Burlington at
> the end of the day, so that he could depart for Florida the next morning.
> (Today.) We, on the other hand, needed to get back to Iowa City somehow.
>
> The solution? We would fly ourselves home, in the wee hours, in a rental
> Cessna 150.
>
> So, I was off to play charter pilot for the evening! Donning my best
> leather jacket, plus shirt and a tie, I hoped that my appearance and calm
> demeanor would mask my utter and complete incompetence from our
passengers.
> I didn't even know how to lower the seat arm-rests, but they didn't need
to
> know that! ("Hmmm...it must be jammed...")
>
> Settling into the co-pilot's seat, I faced a bewildering array of dials,
> switches, buttons, valves, and displays. Ron patiently explained
everything
> he was doing to start the twin 550 horsepower turboprop engines, and I
> grinned as I yelled "clear!" -- this was cool! The big paddle blades
> slowly began to revolve until they were a complete -- but incredibly
> smooth -- blur. Then, onto the other engine, and we were soon taxiing to
> Rwy 12 for departure.
>
> Ron decided to let me do everything, much to my surprise and glee.
Steering
> the King Air took the expected amount of effort, but I zigged and zagged
> down the taxiway anyway, over-steering the whole way. Before taking the
> runway Ron went through a few basic emergency procedures which could
> politely be summed up as "Keep your hands off of everything, and your
mouth
> shut" in the event of an engine failure on take-off. Then a few more
> switches were thrown to arm some automated systems, and we were trundling
> out onto the runway.
>
> Getting the plane aligned with the runway, he told me to simply apply
power
> smoothly up to a certain percentage, and steer the plane down the
> centerline -- he would call out airspeeds and rotation. As I did so I
> apparently did it asymmetrically, cuz we started a gentle weaving down the
> runway. Those 1100 horses really hooked up with the props, and within
> seconds we were at rotation speed. Unexpectedly soon, I found myself
> staring at the sky -- we were climbing out at 2500 feet per minute!
>
> Our flight to Burlington was brief, but full of instruction. I felt like
I
> was trying to drink from a fire-hose as I tried to figure out how (and
> where) everything was and how everything worked. I hand flew the whole
> way, and happily discovered that the King Air is surprisingly responsive
and
> light on the controls. In fact, it didn't really feel too much different
> than my Pathfinder, but things sure happened more quickly! We were
> zipping along at 240 knots in no time at all, and before I had even time
to
> think about it, Ron was talking me into the pattern for Rwy 13 at
> Burlington.
>
> For some reason I expected him to take the controls at a certain point,
but
> it soon became apparent that he had more faith in me than I did in myself.
> He worked the power while I flew the pattern, and -- other than making a
> bigger pattern -- I found the King Air to be surprisingly easy to horse
> around. Getting that big pig to slide down the glideslope was a real
> pleasure, and that sturdy landing gear made for a pretty decent landing,
if
> I do say so myself. I could feel myself sitting up a little straighter in
> the seat as I taxied to the ramp, but I gladly let Ron take the controls
> when we got too close to some big (and expensive) obstacles.
>
> Those wings stick WAAAY out there.
>
> A few other observations about the King Air:
>
> 1. It's actually louder in a King Air cockpit wearing standard headphones,
> than without them. The non-ANR headphones attenuate the high end, and
leave
> the low frequency thrumming of those big propellers, beating the air just
> inches away. Without the headphones, all you hear is the hissing of the
> pressurization.
>
> 2. If you're thinking about renting one of these puppies, they cost $15
per
> MINUTE to operate. That's a cool $900 per hour, boys and girls.
>
> 3. It's strange to be flying "Balls to the wall" all the time, when you're
> accustomed to pleasure flying. Since turbo-props are so incredibly
> expensive to operate, all emphasis is on getting up, and down, quickly.
All
> descents are at red-line, and -- since it is pressurized -- you don't have
> to worry about anyone's inner ears. There's no site-seeing going on in a
> King Air, that's for sure. (I now understand why so many of these guys
come
> blasting into the pattern from all sorts of odd angles.... Time really IS
> money for them.)
>
> 4. You can't easily pre-flight a King Air as thoroughly as you can a Spam
> Can. Heck, you can't even see the gas caps until you're in the cockpit,
> making it pretty hard to visually inspect your fuel. Of course, the fuel
> gauges actually work in a King Air.
>
> Once we picked up our passengers, my fun was over for a while. With the
> paying folks in back, we were all business, and I simply observed the
goings
> on with my hands in my lap. I couldn't even help with the radios, since
> they were Collins brand and of a type I'd never used before. So, I helped
> with squawk codes and clearances as best I could, made sure the passengers
> had cold pop and were warm enough, and we were soon cruising in the flight
> levels, racing into the setting sun at 250 knots. What a way to spend an
> evening!
>
> Landing at an incredibly busy Eppley Airfield was "interesting," as we had
> to side-step at the last minute from Runway 14L to Runway 14R. This put
us
> into the wake of a 737, and I was really glad that Ron was doing the
flying.
> Within minutes our passengers were enroute to their game, and we found
> ourselves with several hours on our hands -- what to do?
>
> What else do you do in Omaha -- you find STEAKS -- lots of steaks!
> Borrowing the crew car we were soon in old Downtown Omaha, eating the best
> 16-ounce ribeye I'd ever tasted at the Upstream Brewery
> (http://www.upstreambrewing.com ) Omaha beef is the very best, and we
> could cut our steaks with a fork.
>
> (Incredibly, Mary and I had visited this restaurant several years ago
when
> we had flown in for a visit to the Strategic Air Command Museum. Ron and
I
> had simply randomly followed the airport staff's recommendation, and I
wound
> up back at the very same restaurant!)
>
> After a couple of hours of pleasant conversation, we had solved all the
> world's problems and were working our way back to the airport. We then
> killed another 45 minutes shooting the breeze with other line-pilots, all
> awaiting their charges. Sitting in a big lazy boy, watching the "Hitler
> Channel", chewing the fat with fellow pilots -- could it get any better?
> :-)
>
> Soon our passengers returned, and we were thankful that it was a "school
> night" for them -- they weren't in a "Party Mood" that might have delayed
> our departure by several more hours. Within minutes we had picked up our
> clearance from an obviously bored and lonely controller, and we were soon
> clawing our way back up into the flight levels at better than 2000 feet
per
> minute. Cleared direct to 21,000 feet, we soared eastbound through a
> crystal-clear, moon-lit sky at better than 300 knots, as comfortable as I
am
> right now. The air was smooth, and from our lofty vantage point we were
> able to see the lights of Omaha, Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, and
a
> zillion other smaller towns, all at once. It was incredible.
>
> Our arrival at Burlington was uneventful, and we found ourselves taxiing
up
> to a completely deserted terminal building. Burlington has daily regional
> airline service, but they obviously roll up the sidewalks after 10 PM --
cuz
> we had the place entirely to ourselves.
>
> Bidding our fares a good night -- they had been a fun, undemanding
bunch --
> we scurried to the T-hangar where our good Doctor's little 150 was
awaiting.
> The temperature had dropped into the 20s, and we weren't dressed for being
> outside for long. Our fatigue and the late hour had us shivering as we
> discovered -- much to our horror -- a padlocked hangar door! The doctor
> had forgotten to leave his hangar door open for us...
>
> What to do? It was pushing midnight, in a strange town, with a closed FBO
> and terminal, and we had no way home. The only place we could get warm
was
> back in the King Air, so we lowered the air stair and clambered back
aboard
> the still-warm airplane. Ron fruitlessly tried calling all of his
> contacts, but no one would answer. My mood sank as I contemplated a cold
> night in Burlington...
>
> Suddenly a small car pulled up beside us, and honked his horn. Our
> neurosurgeon had been stuck in emergency surgery, and had driven straight
to
> us, still wearing his scrubs! He apologetically unlocked his door,
thanked
> us for our patience, and sped off to re-join his colleagues at the
hospital.
>
> Now, I may very well be the only pilot in the world to have never flown in
a
> Cessna 150. With over 800 hours, and nine years of flying, I had simply
> never had the pleasure, having simply skipped straight into 4-seat
aircraft
> from the get-go. So, it was something of a shock to discover just how
SMALL
> they really were! Ron weighed in at over 250 pounds, and I'm pushing
> 190 -- so we were well over gross.
>
> Worse, in order to get my door closed I found that I had to turn sideways
> toward Ron, put my arm behind his seat, and practically hug him. We're
good
> friends and all, thankfully, but I sure don't see how you could actually
> learn to fly in one of these things. One thing's for sure: After 20 hours
> I'll bet you're REAL good friends with your CFI!
>
> Taxiing out to the runway for departure, I couldn't help but marvel at the
> contrast. I had just landed in an aircraft with literally every bell and
> whistle, from a coupled autopilot, to radar, to a strike finder, to TCAS.
> Now, I was rolling in a clapped out little 1967 Cessna 150, with a run-out
> engine, a single VOR and a single COM radio. What an amazing change of
> pace!
>
> Starting down the runway, we were all noise and little progress. The poor
> thing just wouldn't leave Mother Earth! After a 3000 foot roll, we
finally
> broke ground into a wobbling, anemic 200 fpm climb. Like the "Little
Engine
> That Could" we chugged into the sky, and I was never more aware of the
huge
> number of lit antennas in the area. They were EVERYWHERE, and mostly
above
> us!
>
> Straining on up to 3000 feet, we were able to forego the VOR and simply
fly
> toward the lights of Iowa City, clearly visible on the horizon. With a
> respectable tail-wind, we were in Iowa City in 30 minutes, with Ron trying
> to figure out how to land something so slowly. It was our worst landing
of
> the day, and we both had to laugh. It was 12:30 AM, and I was glad to be
> home.
>
> Ron, who does this all the time, was facing another 30 minutes on the road
> to find his bed. I don't know how he does it.
>
> 5:30 AM came mighty early today. But I wouldn't have traded last night
for
> anything!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> I sure don't see how you could actually learn to fly in one of these things.

My flight instructor was a lovely blonde lady who weighed perhaps 130. I weighed
about 150 at the time.

> One thing's for sure: After 20 hours I'll bet you're REAL good friends with
> your CFI!

Not good enough (dammit!).

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[Toks Desalu]

Best story I ever read in a long time.
Two Thumbs up!

[Jim Fisher]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> 5:30 AM came mighty early today. But I wouldn't have traded last night
for
> anything!

Awesome, Jay. Thanks for sharing that.

Can I be the first to condemn the posting as off topic, blatant advertising?

--
Jim Fisher

[Mike Rapoport]

Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these guys
are chartering one for $775?
http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm

Mike
MU-2



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:r5U%b.419957$xy6.2394396@attbi_s02...
> And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
> happened:
>
> Mary and I were at the inn yesterday, working desperately to get our new
> Blackbird Suite ready for prime time -- it was booked for the weekend, and
> we still had over 20 pieces of art to hang! (And you don't just hang 'em
on
> a nail in a hotel suite.) Plus some plumbing, and touch up paint, and...
>
> Into the midst of this chaos strolled Ron, our airport FBO manager, just
> poking around and being friendly, hoping to see how all of our cool SR-71
> stuff was coming together. Seemingly out of no where, he asked "How'd you
> like to come along with me on a Part 91 charter flight tonight?"
>
> Looking around the room to see if he was talking to me, I politely
> declined -- there was just too much to be done here, and too little time
> left to do it. Besides, I was a lowly VFR private pilot -- not even
> multi-engine rated! Still, I glanced sheepishly over at Mary, who just
> rolled her eyes and started laughing -- she knew as well as I did that
this
> could be a "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity. She shrugged and said
"Go!" --
> and within minutes I was OUTTA there! :-)
>
> The plan was deceptively simple: The King Air was owned by a
neurosurgeon,
> and he had donated this flight to his alma mater (a small college in
> Burlington, IA) for the use of their basketball coaching staff. They
needed
> to fly to Omaha, NE, watch a high school basketball game, and try to
recruit
> one of the star athletes to play basketball at their college. We'd go
pick
> 'em up, fly 'em to Omaha, cool our jets for a few hours, and then fly them
> home -- simple!
>
> One big hitch: The neurosurgeon needed his King Air left in Burlington at
> the end of the day, so that he could depart for Florida the next morning.
> (Today.) We, on the other hand, needed to get back to Iowa City somehow.
>
> The solution? We would fly ourselves home, in the wee hours, in a rental
> Cessna 150.
>
> So, I was off to play charter pilot for the evening! Donning my best
> leather jacket, plus shirt and a tie, I hoped that my appearance and calm
> demeanor would mask my utter and complete incompetence from our
passengers.
> I didn't even know how to lower the seat arm-rests, but they didn't need
to
> know that! ("Hmmm...it must be jammed...")
>
> Settling into the co-pilot's seat, I faced a bewildering array of dials,
> switches, buttons, valves, and displays. Ron patiently explained
everything
> he was doing to start the twin 550 horsepower turboprop engines, and I
> grinned as I yelled "clear!" -- this was cool! The big paddle blades
> slowly began to revolve until they were a complete -- but incredibly
> smooth -- blur. Then, onto the other engine, and we were soon taxiing to
> Rwy 12 for departure.
>
> Ron decided to let me do everything, much to my surprise and glee.
Steering
> the King Air took the expected amount of effort, but I zigged and zagged
> down the taxiway anyway, over-steering the whole way. Before taking the
> runway Ron went through a few basic emergency procedures which could
> politely be summed up as "Keep your hands off of everything, and your
mouth
> shut" in the event of an engine failure on take-off. Then a few more
> switches were thrown to arm some automated systems, and we were trundling
> out onto the runway.
>
> Getting the plane aligned with the runway, he told me to simply apply
power
> smoothly up to a certain percentage, and steer the plane down the
> centerline -- he would call out airspeeds and rotation. As I did so I
> apparently did it asymmetrically, cuz we started a gentle weaving down the
> runway. Those 1100 horses really hooked up with the props, and within
> seconds we were at rotation speed. Unexpectedly soon, I found myself
> staring at the sky -- we were climbing out at 2500 feet per minute!
>
> Our flight to Burlington was brief, but full of instruction. I felt like
I
> was trying to drink from a fire-hose as I tried to figure out how (and
> where) everything was and how everything worked. I hand flew the whole
> way, and happily discovered that the King Air is surprisingly responsive
and
> light on the controls. In fact, it didn't really feel too much different
> than my Pathfinder, but things sure happened more quickly! We were
> zipping along at 240 knots in no time at all, and before I had even time
to
> think about it, Ron was talking me into the pattern for Rwy 13 at
> Burlington.
>
> For some reason I expected him to take the controls at a certain point,
but
> it soon became apparent that he had more faith in me than I did in myself.
> He worked the power while I flew the pattern, and -- other than making a
> bigger pattern -- I found the King Air to be surprisingly easy to horse
> around. Getting that big pig to slide down the glideslope was a real
> pleasure, and that sturdy landing gear made for a pretty decent landing,
if
> I do say so myself. I could feel myself sitting up a little straighter in
> the seat as I taxied to the ramp, but I gladly let Ron take the controls
> when we got too close to some big (and expensive) obstacles.
>
> Those wings stick WAAAY out there.
>
> A few other observations about the King Air:
>
> 1. It's actually louder in a King Air cockpit wearing standard headphones,
> than without them. The non-ANR headphones attenuate the high end, and
leave
> the low frequency thrumming of those big propellers, beating the air just
> inches away. Without the headphones, all you hear is the hissing of the
> pressurization.
>
> 2. If you're thinking about renting one of these puppies, they cost $15
per
> MINUTE to operate. That's a cool $900 per hour, boys and girls.
>
> 3. It's strange to be flying "Balls to the wall" all the time, when you're
> accustomed to pleasure flying. Since turbo-props are so incredibly
> expensive to operate, all emphasis is on getting up, and down, quickly.
All
> descents are at red-line, and -- since it is pressurized -- you don't have
> to worry about anyone's inner ears. There's no site-seeing going on in a
> King Air, that's for sure. (I now understand why so many of these guys
come
> blasting into the pattern from all sorts of odd angles.... Time really IS
> money for them.)
>
> 4. You can't easily pre-flight a King Air as thoroughly as you can a Spam
> Can. Heck, you can't even see the gas caps until you're in the cockpit,
> making it pretty hard to visually inspect your fuel. Of course, the fuel
> gauges actually work in a King Air.
>
> Once we picked up our passengers, my fun was over for a while. With the
> paying folks in back, we were all business, and I simply observed the
goings
> on with my hands in my lap. I couldn't even help with the radios, since
> they were Collins brand and of a type I'd never used before. So, I helped
> with squawk codes and clearances as best I could, made sure the passengers
> had cold pop and were warm enough, and we were soon cruising in the flight
> levels, racing into the setting sun at 250 knots. What a way to spend an
> evening!
>
> Landing at an incredibly busy Eppley Airfield was "interesting," as we had
> to side-step at the last minute from Runway 14L to Runway 14R. This put
us
> into the wake of a 737, and I was really glad that Ron was doing the
flying.
> Within minutes our passengers were enroute to their game, and we found
> ourselves with several hours on our hands -- what to do?
>
> What else do you do in Omaha -- you find STEAKS -- lots of steaks!
> Borrowing the crew car we were soon in old Downtown Omaha, eating the best
> 16-ounce ribeye I'd ever tasted at the Upstream Brewery
> (http://www.upstreambrewing.com ) Omaha beef is the very best, and we
> could cut our steaks with a fork.
>
> (Incredibly, Mary and I had visited this restaurant several years ago
when
> we had flown in for a visit to the Strategic Air Command Museum. Ron and
I
> had simply randomly followed the airport staff's recommendation, and I
wound
> up back at the very same restaurant!)
>
> After a couple of hours of pleasant conversation, we had solved all the
> world's problems and were working our way back to the airport. We then
> killed another 45 minutes shooting the breeze with other line-pilots, all
> awaiting their charges. Sitting in a big lazy boy, watching the "Hitler
> Channel", chewing the fat with fellow pilots -- could it get any better?
> :-)
>
> Soon our passengers returned, and we were thankful that it was a "school
> night" for them -- they weren't in a "Party Mood" that might have delayed
> our departure by several more hours. Within minutes we had picked up our
> clearance from an obviously bored and lonely controller, and we were soon
> clawing our way back up into the flight levels at better than 2000 feet
per
> minute. Cleared direct to 21,000 feet, we soared eastbound through a
> crystal-clear, moon-lit sky at better than 300 knots, as comfortable as I
am
> right now. The air was smooth, and from our lofty vantage point we were
> able to see the lights of Omaha, Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, and
a
> zillion other smaller towns, all at once. It was incredible.
>
> Our arrival at Burlington was uneventful, and we found ourselves taxiing
up
> to a completely deserted terminal building. Burlington has daily regional
> airline service, but they obviously roll up the sidewalks after 10 PM --
cuz
> we had the place entirely to ourselves.
>
> Bidding our fares a good night -- they had been a fun, undemanding
bunch --
> we scurried to the T-hangar where our good Doctor's little 150 was
awaiting.
> The temperature had dropped into the 20s, and we weren't dressed for being
> outside for long. Our fatigue and the late hour had us shivering as we
> discovered -- much to our horror -- a padlocked hangar door! The doctor
> had forgotten to leave his hangar door open for us...
>
> What to do? It was pushing midnight, in a strange town, with a closed FBO
> and terminal, and we had no way home. The only place we could get warm
was
> back in the King Air, so we lowered the air stair and clambered back
aboard
> the still-warm airplane. Ron fruitlessly tried calling all of his
> contacts, but no one would answer. My mood sank as I contemplated a cold
> night in Burlington...
>
> Suddenly a small car pulled up beside us, and honked his horn. Our
> neurosurgeon had been stuck in emergency surgery, and had driven straight
to
> us, still wearing his scrubs! He apologetically unlocked his door,
thanked
> us for our patience, and sped off to re-join his colleagues at the
hospital.
>
> Now, I may very well be the only pilot in the world to have never flown in
a
> Cessna 150. With over 800 hours, and nine years of flying, I had simply
> never had the pleasure, having simply skipped straight into 4-seat
aircraft
> from the get-go. So, it was something of a shock to discover just how
SMALL
> they really were! Ron weighed in at over 250 pounds, and I'm pushing
> 190 -- so we were well over gross.
>
> Worse, in order to get my door closed I found that I had to turn sideways
> toward Ron, put my arm behind his seat, and practically hug him. We're
good
> friends and all, thankfully, but I sure don't see how you could actually
> learn to fly in one of these things. One thing's for sure: After 20 hours
> I'll bet you're REAL good friends with your CFI!
>
> Taxiing out to the runway for departure, I couldn't help but marvel at the
> contrast. I had just landed in an aircraft with literally every bell and
> whistle, from a coupled autopilot, to radar, to a strike finder, to TCAS.
> Now, I was rolling in a clapped out little 1967 Cessna 150, with a run-out
> engine, a single VOR and a single COM radio. What an amazing change of
> pace!
>
> Starting down the runway, we were all noise and little progress. The poor
> thing just wouldn't leave Mother Earth! After a 3000 foot roll, we
finally
> broke ground into a wobbling, anemic 200 fpm climb. Like the "Little
Engine
> That Could" we chugged into the sky, and I was never more aware of the
huge
> number of lit antennas in the area. They were EVERYWHERE, and mostly
above
> us!
>
> Straining on up to 3000 feet, we were able to forego the VOR and simply
fly
> toward the lights of Iowa City, clearly visible on the horizon. With a
> respectable tail-wind, we were in Iowa City in 30 minutes, with Ron trying
> to figure out how to land something so slowly. It was our worst landing
of
> the day, and we both had to laugh. It was 12:30 AM, and I was glad to be
> home.
>
> Ron, who does this all the time, was facing another 30 minutes on the road
> to find his bed. I don't know how he does it.
>
> 5:30 AM came mighty early today. But I wouldn't have traded last night
for
> anything!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Can I be the first to condemn the posting as off topic, blatant
advertising?

For Beechcraft products, I presume?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these guys
> are chartering one for $775?
> http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm

Must not be paying their pilots as well?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> How does it feel to have turbine time in your logbook?

Well, TECHNICALLY, not being multi-engine rated, I suppose I can't legally
log the time.

And TECHNICALLY, Ron's not a CFI, so I guess I can't legally can't log the
time.

But you know what? I'm not building hours for anything or anyone. I'm
gonna write 'em in the book anyway! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Greg Burkhart]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:r5U%b.419957$xy6.2394396@attbi_s02...
> And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
> happened:

Great story, Jay!

[Jay Beckman]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:r5U%b.419957$xy6.2394396@attbi_s02...
> And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
> happened:

Waaaay too cool, Jay !!

A great experience and a great write up to boot !

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
Student Pilot

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:ITU%b.426694$na.929519@attbi_s04...
> > How does it feel to have turbine time in your logbook?
>
> Well, TECHNICALLY, not being multi-engine rated, I suppose I can't legally
> log the time.
>
> And TECHNICALLY, Ron's not a CFI, so I guess I can't legally can't log the
> time.

You can log whatever you want. You just can't use the time toward some FAA
requirement. Make sure it's noted/excluded somehow, and otherwise put it in
the log book however you want.

> But you know what? I'm not building hours for anything or anyone. I'm
> gonna write 'em in the book anyway! :-)

I'm still trying to figure out why TECHNICALLY you are permitted to
manipulate the controls during a for-pay charter flight, even if the flight
is under Part 91.

I suspect you broke an FAR somewhere, but I admit that I don't know where
that FAR might be. Not in Part 91, I know that.

Pete

[C J Campbell]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these guys
> are chartering one for $775?
> http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm
>

It depends on the age of the plane and how you amortize the cost. Actual
operating cost of a King Air C90 is about $1/mile, or less than $300/hour.
If your King Air does not fly much, you have to spread fixed costs like
insurance, annual inspections, and interest over fewer hours, meaning a
higher cost per hour. So the cost per hour for a charter company may well be
lower than that of a less frequently used corporate plane.

[Chris Hoffmann]

Lucky dog!

Very good story. But strangely, rather than looking at KingAir pix, I'm
checking out steak joints.....

:)

[C J Campbell]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:ITU%b.426694$na.929519@attbi_s04...
> > > How does it feel to have turbine time in your logbook?
> >
> > Well, TECHNICALLY, not being multi-engine rated, I suppose I can't
legally
> > log the time.
> >
> > And TECHNICALLY, Ron's not a CFI, so I guess I can't legally can't log
the
> > time.
>
> You can log whatever you want. You just can't use the time toward some
FAA
> requirement. Make sure it's noted/excluded somehow, and otherwise put it
in
> the log book however you want.
>
> > But you know what? I'm not building hours for anything or anyone. I'm
> > gonna write 'em in the book anyway! :-)
>
> I'm still trying to figure out why TECHNICALLY you are permitted to
> manipulate the controls during a for-pay charter flight, even if the
flight
> is under Part 91.
>
> I suspect you broke an FAR somewhere, but I admit that I don't know where
> that FAR might be. Not in Part 91, I know that.

If the flight is part 91 then it is subject to part 91 rules, none of which
would forbid even a non-pilot from operating the controls.

The flight is not really a charter. A doctor donates the use of his airplane
and pilot to fly a mission for a related party. Hardly unusual and certainly
well within the limits of part 91. Now, whether the flight violated school
sports recruiting standards might be another matter. :-)

[Tom Sixkiller]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> If the flight is part 91 then it is subject to part 91 rules, none of
which
> would forbid even a non-pilot from operating the controls.
>
> The flight is not really a charter. A doctor donates the use of his
airplane
> and pilot to fly a mission for a related party. Hardly unusual and
certainly
> well within the limits of part 91. Now, whether the flight violated school
> sports recruiting standards might be another matter. :-)

Hey, Jay!! If it was the University of Colorado, they might have had a
stripper on-board.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these guys
> are chartering one for $775?
> http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm
>

Where do you see $900 in there. What I see is the PRICE of $775 (meaning
they'd take a loss of $125 an hour).

My numbers how a direct hourly cost of $558 for a C90. Hell, our company
JetProp1000 costs about $625 (direct $$).

[Tom Sixkiller]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these
guys
> > are chartering one for $775?
> > http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm
> >
>
> It depends on the age of the plane and how you amortize the cost. Actual
> operating cost of a King Air C90 is about $1/mile, or less than $300/hour.
> If your King Air does not fly much, you have to spread fixed costs like
> insurance, annual inspections, and interest over fewer hours, meaning a
> higher cost per hour. So the cost per hour for a charter company may well
be
> lower than that of a less frequently used corporate plane.
>

Direct costs (not actual) is fuel, maintenance reserves, lubricants...

Then hourly allocated costs are insurance, depreciation, hanger, training,
updates/upgrades, pilots fees (only if applicable)...

I doubt the C90 has a direct cost of $1.00 a mile.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:r5U%b.419957$xy6.2394396@attbi_s02...
> And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
> happened:
>
[snip]
>
> 5:30 AM came mighty early today. But I wouldn't have traded last night
for
> anything!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Quite a rush, huh!!

Maybe I can talk the boss into a trip out there and you can get some JetProp
time.

Do you have a Skyraider room? If so, he definitely WILL come out.

[Jay Honeck]

> Hey, Jay!! If it was the University of Colorado, they might have had a
> stripper on-board.

A true sign that I'm getting older:

If I had to choose between having the stripper on board, with me as a
passenger -- or me on board, acting as co-pilot in the right seat -- I'd
choose the right seat.

Sad, ain't it?

Actually, now that I think about it, I guess that choice can't be made until
we know the ground rules with the stripper, can it?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jack Davis]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 03:41:11 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
>happened

<snip>

Great story, Jay. Thanks!

-J

Jack Davis
B-737


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[Teacherjh]

>>
I'm still trying to figure out why TECHNICALLY you are permitted to
manipulate the controls during a for-pay charter flight, even if the flight
is under Part 91.
<<

You're not manipulating the controls. You are an organic autopilot.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Jay Honeck]

> Maybe I can talk the boss into a trip out there and you can get some
JetProp
> time.

What's a JetProp? I'm up for it, whatever it is!

> Do you have a Skyraider room? If so, he definitely WILL come out.

Well, that will depend on our decision regarding the Viet Nam era. I
suspect it will be called the "Phantom Suite" just because of the double
meaning of the word.

This is an important distinction for us. You and I know the "Memphis Belle"
suite is about a bomber, but most of our guests think it's decorated in an
English Country style, and sounds pretty.

"Skyraider" will probably be discarded for the same reason "Hellcat" was --
we just don't want that kind of name associated with the hotel, since the
uninformed (who make up the majority of our guests) will misinterpret the
meaning. (Heck, I even had the "Hellcat Suite" door plaque made before we
decided against *that* one...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> You're not manipulating the controls. You are an organic autopilot.

Well, I guess I've been called worse things...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Big John]

C.J.

Jay only handled the controls during the repositioning portion of
flight. No passengers/customers were aboard during this time.

Is the C90 rated for single pilot? If so, anyone pilot desires can
occupy the right seat even a passenger or customer.

Am I correct and will this make someone sleep better :o)

Big John

For what's it's worth. I used to let none rated fly both Heavy Iron
and GA. Even got my Flight Surgeon proficient enough he could have
landed the T-33 if I had had a heart attack. Sure made my annual
physical easier <G>

Welcome aboard Jay.


On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:42:11 -0800, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>
>"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>> news:ITU%b.426694$na.929519@attbi_s04...
>> > > How does it feel to have turbine time in your logbook?
>> >
>> > Well, TECHNICALLY, not being multi-engine rated, I suppose I can't
>legally
>> > log the time.
>> >
>> > And TECHNICALLY, Ron's not a CFI, so I guess I can't legally can't log
>the
>> > time.
>>
>> You can log whatever you want. You just can't use the time toward some
>FAA
>> requirement. Make sure it's noted/excluded somehow, and otherwise put it
>in
>> the log book however you want.
>>
>> > But you know what? I'm not building hours for anything or anyone. I'm
>> > gonna write 'em in the book anyway! :-)
>>
>> I'm still trying to figure out why TECHNICALLY you are permitted to
>> manipulate the controls during a for-pay charter flight, even if the
>flight
>> is under Part 91.
>>
>> I suspect you broke an FAR somewhere, but I admit that I don't know where
>> that FAR might be. Not in Part 91, I know that.
>
>If the flight is part 91 then it is subject to part 91 rules, none of which
>would forbid even a non-pilot from operating the controls.
>
>The flight is not really a charter. A doctor donates the use of his airplane
>and pilot to fly a mission for a related party. Hardly unusual and certainly
>well within the limits of part 91. Now, whether the flight violated school
>sports recruiting standards might be another matter. :-)
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> If I had to choose between having the stripper on board, with me as a
> passenger -- or me on board, acting as co-pilot in the right seat -- I'd
> choose the right seat.

You don't usually get to handle the controls with a stripper. :-(

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[C J Campbell]

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> C.J.
>
> Jay only handled the controls during the repositioning portion of
> flight. No passengers/customers were aboard during this time.
>
> Is the C90 rated for single pilot? If so, anyone pilot desires can
> occupy the right seat even a passenger or customer.
>
> Am I correct and will this make someone sleep better :o)
>
> Big John
>
> For what's it's worth. I used to let none rated fly both Heavy Iron
> and GA. Even got my Flight Surgeon proficient enough he could have
> landed the T-33 if I had had a heart attack. Sure made my annual
> physical easier <G>
>
> Welcome aboard Jay.

The C90 is rated for single pilot. In fact, it requires no type rating at
all. It is fairly easy to fly, but I still have to think that flying a
multi-engine turboprop single pilot IFR has to be one of the most exhausting
jobs in aviation.

FTR, I was not the one worried about Jay handling the controls. I suspect
his biggest problem was a tendency to taxi too fast. Everyone does that
first time out in a King Air.

[Mike Rapoport]

Or its not true.

It doesn't cost anywhere near $900/hr to operate a KA90 unless you are
flying 50hrs/yr. If you look around you will see that almost nobody is
even asking $900/hr for charter work and presumably they intend to make a
profit. It would be cheaper to charter a Citation than a KA90 if the KA90
was $900hr.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:IRU%b.420258$xy6.2411834@attbi_s02...
> > Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these
guys
> > are chartering one for $775?
> > http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm
>
> Must not be paying their pilots as well?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

So if I fly my MU-2 for 15 minutes a year, is it accurate to say that it
"costs $100,000/hr to operate a MU-2"? I suppose that if the KA90 is flown
under 100hrs per year and is financed with expensive money, then one might
come up with $900/hr. My point is that it is not really an accurate
statement to say the a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate. It might be accurate
to say: "because of my low utilization, it costs $900/hr for me to operate
my KA90, if I had average utilization my cost would be about $500/hr"

My own approach is to split "ownership costs" from "operating costs". Fixed
costs are "ownership costs" and I compare them to the long term (annual or
longer) benefit of owning an airplane. Fuel and maitenance are "operating
cost" that are used to assess whether it makes sense to make a particular
flight. Since I am only flying about 150hrs/yr, fixed costs are a large
percentage of the total but they are "sunk cost" and don't have any
relevence on whether to make a flight or not.


Mike
MU-2


"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these
guys
> > are chartering one for $775?
> > http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm
> >
>
> It depends on the age of the plane and how you amortize the cost. Actual
> operating cost of a King Air C90 is about $1/mile, or less than $300/hour.
> If your King Air does not fly much, you have to spread fixed costs like
> insurance, annual inspections, and interest over fewer hours, meaning a
> higher cost per hour. So the cost per hour for a charter company may well
be
> lower than that of a less frequently used corporate plane.
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

I doubt that they are taking a loss on their *asking* price, particularly
since the standard *asking* price of a chartered C90 seems to be $775-$850.
The Jetprop 1000 is more comperable to a B200 than a C90. Remember they
were only paying one pilot (and maybe not even him) too!

Mike
MU-2


"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these
guys
> > are chartering one for $775?
> > http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm
> >
>
> Where do you see $900 in there. What I see is the PRICE of $775 (meaning
> they'd take a loss of $125 an hour).
>
> My numbers how a direct hourly cost of $558 for a C90. Hell, our company
> JetProp1000 costs about $625 (direct $$).
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:2510c.413926$I06.4563957@attbi_s01...
> > Maybe I can talk the boss into a trip out there and you can get some
> JetProp
> > time.
>
> What's a JetProp? I'm up for it, whatever it is!

Twin Commander. It has a high wing...you might not like it...

Mike
MU-2


> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[lance smith]

Cool story Jay!

And to think I thought I was going to read a story about 1 great
experience, not two! (the 150 : )

-lance smith


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<r5U%b.419957$xy6.2394396@attbi_s02>...
> And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
> happened:
>
> Mary and I were at the inn yesterday, working desperately to get our new
> Blackbird Suite ready for prime time -- it was booked for the weekend, and
> we still had over 20 pieces of art to hang! (And you don't just hang 'em on
> a nail in a hotel suite.) Plus some plumbing, and touch up paint, and...
>
> Into the midst of this chaos strolled Ron, our airport FBO manager, just
> poking around and being friendly, hoping to see how all of our cool SR-71
> stuff was coming together. Seemingly out of no where, he asked "How'd you
> like to come along with me on a Part 91 charter flight tonight?"
>
> Looking around the room to see if he was talking to me, I politely
> declined -- there was just too much to be done here, and too little time
> left to do it. Besides, I was a lowly VFR private pilot -- not even
> multi-engine rated! Still, I glanced sheepishly over at Mary, who just
> rolled her eyes and started laughing -- she knew as well as I did that this
> could be a "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity. She shrugged and said "Go!" --
> and within minutes I was OUTTA there! :-)
>
> The plan was deceptively simple: The King Air was owned by a neurosurgeon,
> and he had donated this flight to his alma mater (a small college in
> Burlington, IA) for the use of their basketball coaching staff. They needed
> to fly to Omaha, NE, watch a high school basketball game, and try to recruit
> one of the star athletes to play basketball at their college. We'd go pick
> 'em up, fly 'em to Omaha, cool our jets for a few hours, and then fly them
> home -- simple!
>
> One big hitch: The neurosurgeon needed his King Air left in Burlington at
> the end of the day, so that he could depart for Florida the next morning.
> (Today.) We, on the other hand, needed to get back to Iowa City somehow.
>
> The solution? We would fly ourselves home, in the wee hours, in a rental
> Cessna 150.
>
> So, I was off to play charter pilot for the evening! Donning my best
> leather jacket, plus shirt and a tie, I hoped that my appearance and calm
> demeanor would mask my utter and complete incompetence from our passengers.
> I didn't even know how to lower the seat arm-rests, but they didn't need to
> know that! ("Hmmm...it must be jammed...")
>
> Settling into the co-pilot's seat, I faced a bewildering array of dials,
> switches, buttons, valves, and displays. Ron patiently explained everything
> he was doing to start the twin 550 horsepower turboprop engines, and I
> grinned as I yelled "clear!" -- this was cool! The big paddle blades
> slowly began to revolve until they were a complete -- but incredibly
> smooth -- blur. Then, onto the other engine, and we were soon taxiing to
> Rwy 12 for departure.
>
> Ron decided to let me do everything, much to my surprise and glee. Steering
> the King Air took the expected amount of effort, but I zigged and zagged
> down the taxiway anyway, over-steering the whole way. Before taking the
> runway Ron went through a few basic emergency procedures which could
> politely be summed up as "Keep your hands off of everything, and your mouth
> shut" in the event of an engine failure on take-off. Then a few more
> switches were thrown to arm some automated systems, and we were trundling
> out onto the runway.
>
> Getting the plane aligned with the runway, he told me to simply apply power
> smoothly up to a certain percentage, and steer the plane down the
> centerline -- he would call out airspeeds and rotation. As I did so I
> apparently did it asymmetrically, cuz we started a gentle weaving down the
> runway. Those 1100 horses really hooked up with the props, and within
> seconds we were at rotation speed. Unexpectedly soon, I found myself
> staring at the sky -- we were climbing out at 2500 feet per minute!
>
> Our flight to Burlington was brief, but full of instruction. I felt like I
> was trying to drink from a fire-hose as I tried to figure out how (and
> where) everything was and how everything worked. I hand flew the whole
> way, and happily discovered that the King Air is surprisingly responsive and
> light on the controls. In fact, it didn't really feel too much different
> than my Pathfinder, but things sure happened more quickly! We were
> zipping along at 240 knots in no time at all, and before I had even time to
> think about it, Ron was talking me into the pattern for Rwy 13 at
> Burlington.
>
> For some reason I expected him to take the controls at a certain point, but
> it soon became apparent that he had more faith in me than I did in myself.
> He worked the power while I flew the pattern, and -- other than making a
> bigger pattern -- I found the King Air to be surprisingly easy to horse
> around. Getting that big pig to slide down the glideslope was a real
> pleasure, and that sturdy landing gear made for a pretty decent landing, if
> I do say so myself. I could feel myself sitting up a little straighter in
> the seat as I taxied to the ramp, but I gladly let Ron take the controls
> when we got too close to some big (and expensive) obstacles.
>
> Those wings stick WAAAY out there.
>
> A few other observations about the King Air:
>
> 1. It's actually louder in a King Air cockpit wearing standard headphones,
> than without them. The non-ANR headphones attenuate the high end, and leave
> the low frequency thrumming of those big propellers, beating the air just
> inches away. Without the headphones, all you hear is the hissing of the
> pressurization.
>
> 2. If you're thinking about renting one of these puppies, they cost $15 per
> MINUTE to operate. That's a cool $900 per hour, boys and girls.
>
> 3. It's strange to be flying "Balls to the wall" all the time, when you're
> accustomed to pleasure flying. Since turbo-props are so incredibly
> expensive to operate, all emphasis is on getting up, and down, quickly. All
> descents are at red-line, and -- since it is pressurized -- you don't have
> to worry about anyone's inner ears. There's no site-seeing going on in a
> King Air, that's for sure. (I now understand why so many of these guys come
> blasting into the pattern from all sorts of odd angles.... Time really IS
> money for them.)
>
> 4. You can't easily pre-flight a King Air as thoroughly as you can a Spam
> Can. Heck, you can't even see the gas caps until you're in the cockpit,
> making it pretty hard to visually inspect your fuel. Of course, the fuel
> gauges actually work in a King Air.
>
> Once we picked up our passengers, my fun was over for a while. With the
> paying folks in back, we were all business, and I simply observed the goings
> on with my hands in my lap. I couldn't even help with the radios, since
> they were Collins brand and of a type I'd never used before. So, I helped
> with squawk codes and clearances as best I could, made sure the passengers
> had cold pop and were warm enough, and we were soon cruising in the flight
> levels, racing into the setting sun at 250 knots. What a way to spend an
> evening!
>
> Landing at an incredibly busy Eppley Airfield was "interesting," as we had
> to side-step at the last minute from Runway 14L to Runway 14R. This put us
> into the wake of a 737, and I was really glad that Ron was doing the flying.
> Within minutes our passengers were enroute to their game, and we found
> ourselves with several hours on our hands -- what to do?
>
> What else do you do in Omaha -- you find STEAKS -- lots of steaks!
> Borrowing the crew car we were soon in old Downtown Omaha, eating the best
> 16-ounce ribeye I'd ever tasted at the Upstream Brewery
> (http://www.upstreambrewing.com ) Omaha beef is the very best, and we
> could cut our steaks with a fork.
>
> (Incredibly, Mary and I had visited this restaurant several years ago when
> we had flown in for a visit to the Strategic Air Command Museum. Ron and I
> had simply randomly followed the airport staff's recommendation, and I wound
> up back at the very same restaurant!)
>
> After a couple of hours of pleasant conversation, we had solved all the
> world's problems and were working our way back to the airport. We then
> killed another 45 minutes shooting the breeze with other line-pilots, all
> awaiting their charges. Sitting in a big lazy boy, watching the "Hitler
> Channel", chewing the fat with fellow pilots -- could it get any better?
> :-)
>
> Soon our passengers returned, and we were thankful that it was a "school
> night" for them -- they weren't in a "Party Mood" that might have delayed
> our departure by several more hours. Within minutes we had picked up our
> clearance from an obviously bored and lonely controller, and we were soon
> clawing our way back up into the flight levels at better than 2000 feet per
> minute. Cleared direct to 21,000 feet, we soared eastbound through a
> crystal-clear, moon-lit sky at better than 300 knots, as comfortable as I am
> right now. The air was smooth, and from our lofty vantage point we were
> able to see the lights of Omaha, Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, and a
> zillion other smaller towns, all at once. It was incredible.
>
> Our arrival at Burlington was uneventful, and we found ourselves taxiing up
> to a completely deserted terminal building. Burlington has daily regional
> airline service, but they obviously roll up the sidewalks after 10 PM -- cuz
> we had the place entirely to ourselves.
>
> Bidding our fares a good night -- they had been a fun, undemanding bunch --
> we scurried to the T-hangar where our good Doctor's little 150 was awaiting.
> The temperature had dropped into the 20s, and we weren't dressed for being
> outside for long. Our fatigue and the late hour had us shivering as we
> discovered -- much to our horror -- a padlocked hangar door! The doctor
> had forgotten to leave his hangar door open for us...
>
> What to do? It was pushing midnight, in a strange town, with a closed FBO
> and terminal, and we had no way home. The only place we could get warm was
> back in the King Air, so we lowered the air stair and clambered back aboard
> the still-warm airplane. Ron fruitlessly tried calling all of his
> contacts, but no one would answer. My mood sank as I contemplated a cold
> night in Burlington...
>
> Suddenly a small car pulled up beside us, and honked his horn. Our
> neurosurgeon had been stuck in emergency surgery, and had driven straight to
> us, still wearing his scrubs! He apologetically unlocked his door, thanked
> us for our patience, and sped off to re-join his colleagues at the hospital.
>
> Now, I may very well be the only pilot in the world to have never flown in a
> Cessna 150. With over 800 hours, and nine years of flying, I had simply
> never had the pleasure, having simply skipped straight into 4-seat aircraft
> from the get-go. So, it was something of a shock to discover just how SMALL
> they really were! Ron weighed in at over 250 pounds, and I'm pushing
> 190 -- so we were well over gross.
>
> Worse, in order to get my door closed I found that I had to turn sideways
> toward Ron, put my arm behind his seat, and practically hug him. We're good
> friends and all, thankfully, but I sure don't see how you could actually
> learn to fly in one of these things. One thing's for sure: After 20 hours
> I'll bet you're REAL good friends with your CFI!
>
> Taxiing out to the runway for departure, I couldn't help but marvel at the
> contrast. I had just landed in an aircraft with literally every bell and
> whistle, from a coupled autopilot, to radar, to a strike finder, to TCAS.
> Now, I was rolling in a clapped out little 1967 Cessna 150, with a run-out
> engine, a single VOR and a single COM radio. What an amazing change of
> pace!
>
> Starting down the runway, we were all noise and little progress. The poor
> thing just wouldn't leave Mother Earth! After a 3000 foot roll, we finally
> broke ground into a wobbling, anemic 200 fpm climb. Like the "Little Engine
> That Could" we chugged into the sky, and I was never more aware of the huge
> number of lit antennas in the area. They were EVERYWHERE, and mostly above
> us!
>
> Straining on up to 3000 feet, we were able to forego the VOR and simply fly
> toward the lights of Iowa City, clearly visible on the horizon. With a
> respectable tail-wind, we were in Iowa City in 30 minutes, with Ron trying
> to figure out how to land something so slowly. It was our worst landing of
> the day, and we both had to laugh. It was 12:30 AM, and I was glad to be
> home.
>
> Ron, who does this all the time, was facing another 30 minutes on the road
> to find his bed. I don't know how he does it.
>
> 5:30 AM came mighty early today. But I wouldn't have traded last night for
> anything!

[G.R. Patterson III]

lance smith wrote:
>
> And to think I thought I was going to read a story about 1 great
> experience, not two! (the 150 : )

I wouldn't call staggering off the ground in a severely overloaded 150 a great
experience, myself.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[Big John]

C.J.


On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:18:02 -0800, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

----clip----

>The C90 is rated for single pilot. In fact, it requires no type rating at
>all. It is fairly easy to fly, but I still have to think that flying a
>multi-engine turboprop single pilot IFR has to be one of the most exhausting
>jobs in aviation.
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````````
All single pilot IFR is exhausting. Most of my IFR was single pilot in
single and multi engine birds. Good pre planning helps a lot until all
hell breaks loose :o(
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````
>FTR, I was not the one worried about Jay handling the controls. I suspect
>his biggest problem was a tendency to taxi too fast. Everyone does that
>first time out in a King Air.
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
C.J. know that. I just hooked my comments behind yours to try to keep
in line on all the comments made. Sorry.

If he was in 'ground idle', speed was probably fast without a lot of
brake. Does the C90 have 'beta'? I used 'beta' in some of the birds I
flew to take some of the prop pitch off taxing so wouldn't wear the
brakes out.

Long time ago in a land far away :o)

Big John

[Greg Burkhart]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:0i10c.424107$xy6.2454068@attbi_s02...
> > You're not manipulating the controls. You are an organic autopilot.
>
> Well, I guess I've been called worse things...
>
> ;-)

My cousin had a similar flight about a month ago. His son (a CFI) and him
flew (I think it was) a Saratoga from Spencer to Davenport to pick up a
couple passengers. It was an IFR flight in IMC from around Emmetsburg to
almost Davenport so my cousin used that flight as his 1 hour of instruments
for his Wings. His son did the flying back with the passengers.

Too bad the FBO guy wasn't a CFI, you could have logged it as part of your
Wings...

[Bob Gardner]

I don't think you can use "Part 91" and "charter" in the same sentence.

Bob Gardner

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:r5U%b.419957$xy6.2394396@attbi_s02...
> And I'm still giggling, probably from sleep deprivation. Here's how it
> happened:
>
> Mary and I were at the inn yesterday, working desperately to get our new
> Blackbird Suite ready for prime time -- it was booked for the weekend, and
> we still had over 20 pieces of art to hang! (And you don't just hang 'em
on
> a nail in a hotel suite.) Plus some plumbing, and touch up paint, and...
>
> Into the midst of this chaos strolled Ron, our airport FBO manager, just
> poking around and being friendly, hoping to see how all of our cool SR-71
> stuff was coming together. Seemingly out of no where, he asked "How'd you
> like to come along with me on a Part 91 charter flight tonight?"
>
> Looking around the room to see if he was talking to me, I politely
> declined -- there was just too much to be done here, and too little time
> left to do it. Besides, I was a lowly VFR private pilot -- not even
> multi-engine rated! Still, I glanced sheepishly over at Mary, who just
> rolled her eyes and started laughing -- she knew as well as I did that
this
> could be a "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity. She shrugged and said
"Go!" --
> and within minutes I was OUTTA there! :-)
>
> The plan was deceptively simple: The King Air was owned by a
neurosurgeon,
> and he had donated this flight to his alma mater (a small college in
> Burlington, IA) for the use of their basketball coaching staff. They
needed
> to fly to Omaha, NE, watch a high school basketball game, and try to
recruit
> one of the star athletes to play basketball at their college. We'd go
pick
> 'em up, fly 'em to Omaha, cool our jets for a few hours, and then fly them
> home -- simple!
>
> One big hitch: The neurosurgeon needed his King Air left in Burlington at
> the end of the day, so that he could depart for Florida the next morning.
> (Today.) We, on the other hand, needed to get back to Iowa City somehow.
>
> The solution? We would fly ourselves home, in the wee hours, in a rental
> Cessna 150.
>
> So, I was off to play charter pilot for the evening! Donning my best
> leather jacket, plus shirt and a tie, I hoped that my appearance and calm
> demeanor would mask my utter and complete incompetence from our
passengers.
> I didn't even know how to lower the seat arm-rests, but they didn't need
to
> know that! ("Hmmm...it must be jammed...")
>
> Settling into the co-pilot's seat, I faced a bewildering array of dials,
> switches, buttons, valves, and displays. Ron patiently explained
everything
> he was doing to start the twin 550 horsepower turboprop engines, and I
> grinned as I yelled "clear!" -- this was cool! The big paddle blades
> slowly began to revolve until they were a complete -- but incredibly
> smooth -- blur. Then, onto the other engine, and we were soon taxiing to
> Rwy 12 for departure.
>
> Ron decided to let me do everything, much to my surprise and glee.
Steering
> the King Air took the expected amount of effort, but I zigged and zagged
> down the taxiway anyway, over-steering the whole way. Before taking the
> runway Ron went through a few basic emergency procedures which could
> politely be summed up as "Keep your hands off of everything, and your
mouth
> shut" in the event of an engine failure on take-off. Then a few more
> switches were thrown to arm some automated systems, and we were trundling
> out onto the runway.
>
> Getting the plane aligned with the runway, he told me to simply apply
power
> smoothly up to a certain percentage, and steer the plane down the
> centerline -- he would call out airspeeds and rotation. As I did so I
> apparently did it asymmetrically, cuz we started a gentle weaving down the
> runway. Those 1100 horses really hooked up with the props, and within
> seconds we were at rotation speed. Unexpectedly soon, I found myself
> staring at the sky -- we were climbing out at 2500 feet per minute!
>
> Our flight to Burlington was brief, but full of instruction. I felt like
I
> was trying to drink from a fire-hose as I tried to figure out how (and
> where) everything was and how everything worked. I hand flew the whole
> way, and happily discovered that the King Air is surprisingly responsive
and
> light on the controls. In fact, it didn't really feel too much different
> than my Pathfinder, but things sure happened more quickly! We were
> zipping along at 240 knots in no time at all, and before I had even time
to
> think about it, Ron was talking me into the pattern for Rwy 13 at
> Burlington.
>
> For some reason I expected him to take the controls at a certain point,
but
> it soon became apparent that he had more faith in me than I did in myself.
> He worked the power while I flew the pattern, and -- other than making a
> bigger pattern -- I found the King Air to be surprisingly easy to horse
> around. Getting that big pig to slide down the glideslope was a real
> pleasure, and that sturdy landing gear made for a pretty decent landing,
if
> I do say so myself. I could feel myself sitting up a little straighter in
> the seat as I taxied to the ramp, but I gladly let Ron take the controls
> when we got too close to some big (and expensive) obstacles.
>
> Those wings stick WAAAY out there.
>
> A few other observations about the King Air:
>
> 1. It's actually louder in a King Air cockpit wearing standard headphones,
> than without them. The non-ANR headphones attenuate the high end, and
leave
> the low frequency thrumming of those big propellers, beating the air just
> inches away. Without the headphones, all you hear is the hissing of the
> pressurization.
>
> 2. If you're thinking about renting one of these puppies, they cost $15
per
> MINUTE to operate. That's a cool $900 per hour, boys and girls.
>
> 3. It's strange to be flying "Balls to the wall" all the time, when you're
> accustomed to pleasure flying. Since turbo-props are so incredibly
> expensive to operate, all emphasis is on getting up, and down, quickly.
All
> descents are at red-line, and -- since it is pressurized -- you don't have
> to worry about anyone's inner ears. There's no site-seeing going on in a
> King Air, that's for sure. (I now understand why so many of these guys
come
> blasting into the pattern from all sorts of odd angles.... Time really IS
> money for them.)
>
> 4. You can't easily pre-flight a King Air as thoroughly as you can a Spam
> Can. Heck, you can't even see the gas caps until you're in the cockpit,
> making it pretty hard to visually inspect your fuel. Of course, the fuel
> gauges actually work in a King Air.
>
> Once we picked up our passengers, my fun was over for a while. With the
> paying folks in back, we were all business, and I simply observed the
goings
> on with my hands in my lap. I couldn't even help with the radios, since
> they were Collins brand and of a type I'd never used before. So, I helped
> with squawk codes and clearances as best I could, made sure the passengers
> had cold pop and were warm enough, and we were soon cruising in the flight
> levels, racing into the setting sun at 250 knots. What a way to spend an
> evening!
>
> Landing at an incredibly busy Eppley Airfield was "interesting," as we had
> to side-step at the last minute from Runway 14L to Runway 14R. This put
us
> into the wake of a 737, and I was really glad that Ron was doing the
flying.
> Within minutes our passengers were enroute to their game, and we found
> ourselves with several hours on our hands -- what to do?
>
> What else do you do in Omaha -- you find STEAKS -- lots of steaks!
> Borrowing the crew car we were soon in old Downtown Omaha, eating the best
> 16-ounce ribeye I'd ever tasted at the Upstream Brewery
> (http://www.upstreambrewing.com ) Omaha beef is the very best, and we
> could cut our steaks with a fork.
>
> (Incredibly, Mary and I had visited this restaurant several years ago
when
> we had flown in for a visit to the Strategic Air Command Museum. Ron and
I
> had simply randomly followed the airport staff's recommendation, and I
wound
> up back at the very same restaurant!)
>
> After a couple of hours of pleasant conversation, we had solved all the
> world's problems and were working our way back to the airport. We then
> killed another 45 minutes shooting the breeze with other line-pilots, all
> awaiting their charges. Sitting in a big lazy boy, watching the "Hitler
> Channel", chewing the fat with fellow pilots -- could it get any better?
> :-)
>
> Soon our passengers returned, and we were thankful that it was a "school
> night" for them -- they weren't in a "Party Mood" that might have delayed
> our departure by several more hours. Within minutes we had picked up our
> clearance from an obviously bored and lonely controller, and we were soon
> clawing our way back up into the flight levels at better than 2000 feet
per
> minute. Cleared direct to 21,000 feet, we soared eastbound through a
> crystal-clear, moon-lit sky at better than 300 knots, as comfortable as I
am
> right now. The air was smooth, and from our lofty vantage point we were
> able to see the lights of Omaha, Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, and
a
> zillion other smaller towns, all at once. It was incredible.
>
> Our arrival at Burlington was uneventful, and we found ourselves taxiing
up
> to a completely deserted terminal building. Burlington has daily regional
> airline service, but they obviously roll up the sidewalks after 10 PM --
cuz
> we had the place entirely to ourselves.
>
> Bidding our fares a good night -- they had been a fun, undemanding
bunch --
> we scurried to the T-hangar where our good Doctor's little 150 was
awaiting.
> The temperature had dropped into the 20s, and we weren't dressed for being
> outside for long. Our fatigue and the late hour had us shivering as we
> discovered -- much to our horror -- a padlocked hangar door! The doctor
> had forgotten to leave his hangar door open for us...
>
> What to do? It was pushing midnight, in a strange town, with a closed FBO
> and terminal, and we had no way home. The only place we could get warm
was
> back in the King Air, so we lowered the air stair and clambered back
aboard
> the still-warm airplane. Ron fruitlessly tried calling all of his
> contacts, but no one would answer. My mood sank as I contemplated a cold
> night in Burlington...
>
> Suddenly a small car pulled up beside us, and honked his horn. Our
> neurosurgeon had been stuck in emergency surgery, and had driven straight
to
> us, still wearing his scrubs! He apologetically unlocked his door,
thanked
> us for our patience, and sped off to re-join his colleagues at the
hospital.
>
> Now, I may very well be the only pilot in the world to have never flown in
a
> Cessna 150. With over 800 hours, and nine years of flying, I had simply
> never had the pleasure, having simply skipped straight into 4-seat
aircraft
> from the get-go. So, it was something of a shock to discover just how
SMALL
> they really were! Ron weighed in at over 250 pounds, and I'm pushing
> 190 -- so we were well over gross.
>
> Worse, in order to get my door closed I found that I had to turn sideways
> toward Ron, put my arm behind his seat, and practically hug him. We're
good
> friends and all, thankfully, but I sure don't see how you could actually
> learn to fly in one of these things. One thing's for sure: After 20 hours
> I'll bet you're REAL good friends with your CFI!
>
> Taxiing out to the runway for departure, I couldn't help but marvel at the
> contrast. I had just landed in an aircraft with literally every bell and
> whistle, from a coupled autopilot, to radar, to a strike finder, to TCAS.
> Now, I was rolling in a clapped out little 1967 Cessna 150, with a run-out
> engine, a single VOR and a single COM radio. What an amazing change of
> pace!
>
> Starting down the runway, we were all noise and little progress. The poor
> thing just wouldn't leave Mother Earth! After a 3000 foot roll, we
finally
> broke ground into a wobbling, anemic 200 fpm climb. Like the "Little
Engine
> That Could" we chugged into the sky, and I was never more aware of the
huge
> number of lit antennas in the area. They were EVERYWHERE, and mostly
above
> us!
>
> Straining on up to 3000 feet, we were able to forego the VOR and simply
fly
> toward the lights of Iowa City, clearly visible on the horizon. With a
> respectable tail-wind, we were in Iowa City in 30 minutes, with Ron trying
> to figure out how to land something so slowly. It was our worst landing
of
> the day, and we both had to laugh. It was 12:30 AM, and I was glad to be
> home.
>
> Ron, who does this all the time, was facing another 30 minutes on the road
> to find his bed. I don't know how he does it.
>
> 5:30 AM came mighty early today. But I wouldn't have traded last night
for
> anything!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> If he was in 'ground idle', speed was probably fast without a lot of
> brake. Does the C90 have 'beta'? I used 'beta' in some of the birds I
> flew to take some of the prop pitch off taxing so wouldn't wear the
> brakes out.

Yeah, we used beta thrust constantly while taxiing.

I thought the brakes on the King Air were pretty marginal, actually.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I wouldn't call staggering off the ground in a severely overloaded 150 a
great
> experience, myself.

These things are only "fun" after you've lived through them.

I'm just glad it was cold out...

(BTW: I mentioned this departure to one of the local flight instructors, and
he just laughed. The 150 in question is known as being quite the dog, even
by 150 standards, and none of the CFIs like it.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ben Jackson]

In article . net>,
Mike Rapoport > wrote:
>So if I fly my MU-2 for 15 minutes a year, is it accurate to say that it
>"costs $100,000/hr to operate a MU-2"?

No, the first hour costs $25,000 and the rest are just the cost of fuel!

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[John Gaquin]

"Big John" > wrote in message

> All single pilot IFR is exhausting. Most of my IFR was single pilot in

I'll drink to that! I flew a couple of years in a 402 for a commuter on
Cape Cod years ago. One day on a busy holiday weekend the fog was in (of
course) and I flew 22 approachs in one day, every one of them to or near
minimums. Slept the sleep of the just that night.

JG

[John Gaquin]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
> And TECHNICALLY, Ron's not a CFI, so I guess I can't legally can't log the
> time.

Does he hold an ATP certificate?

Did he instruct you in "air transportation"; not flying the KA, but in how
to conduct charter operations?

There are gray areas, but generally, for that, a CFI is not required.

JG

[john smith]

Mike Rapoport wrote:
> Or its not true.
> flying 50hrs/yr. If you look around you will see that almost nobody is
> even asking $900/hr for charter work and presumably they intend to make a
> profit. It would be cheaper to charter a Citation than a KA90 if the KA90
> was $900hr.

NetJets charges $1200/hr for Citation SII's in its fleet. That's
fractional ownership.

[john smith]

Mike Rapoport wrote:
>>What's a JetProp? I'm up for it, whatever it is!

> Twin Commander. It has a high wing...you might not like it...

Just like that thing that was parked next to me at OSH last summer!

[Richard Hertz]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:ITU%b.426694$na.929519@attbi_s04...
> > > How does it feel to have turbine time in your logbook?
> >
> > Well, TECHNICALLY, not being multi-engine rated, I suppose I can't
legally
> > log the time.
> >
> > And TECHNICALLY, Ron's not a CFI, so I guess I can't legally can't log
the
> > time.
>
> You can log whatever you want. You just can't use the time toward some
FAA
> requirement. Make sure it's noted/excluded somehow, and otherwise put it
in
> the log book however you want.
>
> > But you know what? I'm not building hours for anything or anyone. I'm
> > gonna write 'em in the book anyway! :-)
>
> I'm still trying to figure out why TECHNICALLY you are permitted to
> manipulate the controls during a for-pay charter flight, even if the
flight
> is under Part 91.
>
> I suspect you broke an FAR somewhere, but I admit that I don't know where
> that FAR might be. Not in Part 91, I know that.
>

When they took off over gross in the 150. Great story until that point.


> Pete
>
>

[John Gaquin]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
> So, does he sign my logbook, or do I just log the time?

Have him sign the book. Legitimate instruction, legitimately given. To
tell you the truth, though, I'm damned if I could tell you what it would be
good towards! Perhaps your own ATP?

[Capt.Doug]

>"John Gaquin" wrote in message > Have him sign the book. Legitimate
>instruction, legitimately given. To
> tell you the truth, though, I'm damned if I could tell you what it would
be
> good towards! Perhaps your own ATP?

In the old days when common sense ruled the land, an ATP could endorse other
pilots' logbooks for instruction in air transportation. Now it can be done
only if the position requires an ATP.

D.

[Capt.Doug]

>"john smith" wrote in message > NetJets charges $1200/hr for Citation SII's
>in its fleet. That's fractional ownership.

And... that's why many savvy businessmen stay away from the fractionals.

I charge $900/hr retail for a -200 under part 135.

D.

[Mike Rapoport]

I know. Its cheaper to go 400kts for $1200/hr then it is to go 230kts for
$900/hr. You can charter a Citation for $1400/hr.

Mike
MU-2


"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Rapoport wrote:
> > Or its not true.
> > flying 50hrs/yr. If you look around you will see that almost nobody is
> > even asking $900/hr for charter work and presumably they intend to make
a
> > profit. It would be cheaper to charter a Citation than a KA90 if the
KA90
> > was $900hr.
>
> NetJets charges $1200/hr for Citation SII's in its fleet. That's
> fractional ownership.
>

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> I doubt that they are taking a loss on their *asking* price, particularly
> since the standard *asking* price of a chartered C90 seems to be
$775-$850.

And that's why I'm wondering where the $900 came from.


> The Jetprop 1000 is more comperable to a B200 than a C90. Remember they
> were only paying one pilot (and maybe not even him) too!

Likewise. Our company has NO dedicated pilots, and our 1000 costs about $660
an hour for total costs (335 hours total FT in 2003..earlier I'd said $625
for direct, but I think it's more like $575...I'll run the numbers when I go
back on Monday) and that includes twice annual FlightSafety courses for
five. But then, we're paying well under $2.00 a gallon for Jet-A...

>
> Mike
> MU-2
>

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:2510c.413926$I06.4563957@attbi_s01...
> > Maybe I can talk the boss into a trip out there and you can get some
> JetProp
> > time.
>
> What's a JetProp? I'm up for it, whatever it is!

Used to be the Rockwell JetProp, now it's called the Twin Commander. It runs
the spread from the 690 to the 695,A,B models. Twin TPE331-10 engines. The
most gut wrenching accelleration you've ever felt short of a Porsche.

> > Do you have a Skyraider room? If so, he definitely WILL come out.
>
> Well, that will depend on our decision regarding the Viet Nam era. I
> suspect it will be called the "Phantom Suite" just because of the double
> meaning of the word.
>
> This is an important distinction for us. You and I know the "Memphis
Belle"
> suite is about a bomber, but most of our guests think it's decorated in an
> English Country style, and sounds pretty.

Hmm...the Skyraider suite would have to be done up in jungle motif :~(

>
> "Skyraider" will probably be discarded for the same reason "Hellcat"
was --
> we just don't want that kind of name associated with the hotel, since the
> uninformed (who make up the majority of our guests) will misinterpret the
> meaning. (Heck, I even had the "Hellcat Suite" door plaque made before we
> decided against *that* one...)

Well, just call the Skyraider room the "Sandy Room". :~)
> --

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:2510c.413926$I06.4563957@attbi_s01...
> > > Maybe I can talk the boss into a trip out there and you can get some
> > JetProp
> > > time.
> >
> > What's a JetProp? I'm up for it, whatever it is!
>
> Twin Commander. It has a high wing...you might not like it...
>

High wing; low ass. A low-rider with wings.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> > If I had to choose between having the stripper on board, with me as a
> > passenger -- or me on board, acting as co-pilot in the right seat -- I'd
> > choose the right seat.
>
> You don't usually get to handle the controls with a stripper. :-(

Which "controls" are you referring to?

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:0i10c.424107$xy6.2454068@attbi_s02...
> > You're not manipulating the controls. You are an organic autopilot.
>
> Well, I guess I've been called worse things...
>
> ;-)
Especially in this group!! :~o

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> C.J.
>
> Jay only handled the controls during the repositioning portion of
> flight. No passengers/customers were aboard during this time.
>
> Is the C90 rated for single pilot? If so, anyone pilot desires can
> occupy the right seat even a passenger or customer.

Turbo-props are all single-pilot if Part 91 (okay...FAA lawyers have at it).
The Cessna Citations 50xSP/CJ/CJ1/CJ2 are also SP with certain defined
equipment and a SP certification for the pilot.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Big John" > wrote in message
> ...
> > C.J.
> >
> > Jay only handled the controls during the repositioning portion of
> > flight. No passengers/customers were aboard during this time.
> >
> > Is the C90 rated for single pilot? If so, anyone pilot desires can
> > occupy the right seat even a passenger or customer.
> >
> > Am I correct and will this make someone sleep better :o)
> >
> > Big John
> >
> > For what's it's worth. I used to let none rated fly both Heavy Iron
> > and GA. Even got my Flight Surgeon proficient enough he could have
> > landed the T-33 if I had had a heart attack. Sure made my annual
> > physical easier <G>
> >
> > Welcome aboard Jay.
>
> The C90 is rated for single pilot. In fact, it requires no type rating at
> all. It is fairly easy to fly, but I still have to think that flying a
> multi-engine turboprop single pilot IFR has to be one of the most
exhausting
> jobs in aviation.

Much less exhausting than a light piston twin, especially if the TP is well
equipped with MFD checklists, etc. The hard part is staying ahead of the
plane. Same thing with a Citation. If you're not used to speed, you're going
to fall behind. That's part of the reason my bosses wanted someone for right
seat; they're both Citation SP rated, but pushing 70 and don't feel as sharp
as they used to be.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:lw60c.577$PR3.20141@attbi_s03...
> > If he was in 'ground idle', speed was probably fast without a lot of
> > brake. Does the C90 have 'beta'? I used 'beta' in some of the birds I
> > flew to take some of the prop pitch off taxing so wouldn't wear the
> > brakes out.
>
> Yeah, we used beta thrust constantly while taxiing.
>
> I thought the brakes on the King Air were pretty marginal, actually.

What they teach in the TC course is to avoid riding the brakes (and beta
range) as most people run to much power then ride the brakes to maintain a
proper taxi speed.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Big John" > wrote in message
>
> > All single pilot IFR is exhausting. Most of my IFR was single pilot in
>
> I'll drink to that! I flew a couple of years in a 402 for a commuter on
> Cape Cod years ago. One day on a busy holiday weekend the fog was in (of
> course) and I flew 22 approachs in one day, every one of them to or near
> minimums. Slept the sleep of the just that night.
>
Piston poppers are definitely much more work especially with marginal power
envelopes during emergencies.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Rapoport wrote:
> > Or its not true.
> > flying 50hrs/yr. If you look around you will see that almost nobody is
> > even asking $900/hr for charter work and presumably they intend to make
a
> > profit. It would be cheaper to charter a Citation than a KA90 if the
KA90
> > was $900hr.
>
> NetJets charges $1200/hr for Citation SII's in its fleet. That's
> fractional ownership.

And their margin is about 60%. That $1200 also includes two pilots when they
have additional margin. (?)

[Jay Honeck]

> When they took off over gross in the 150. Great story until that point.

Well, in retrospect it's hard to say if we were really over gross, or if
that's just how a 150 always performs. Never having flown one before, it's
difficult for me to say with any degree of assurance.

Ron was PIC, and I don't know how much fuel was on board. (He staked 'em,
but I didn't ask.)

I was just the "cheese" in the "Cessna sandwich" on that flight...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[G.R. Patterson III]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>
> > You don't usually get to handle the controls with a stripper. :-(
>
> Which "controls" are you referring to?

The tuning knobs, of course.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Well, I guess I've been called worse things...

You *guess* you have?

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Well, in retrospect it's hard to say if we were really over gross, or if
> that's just how a 150 always performs.

You were well over. A typical 150 can carry about 300 pounds with full fuel.
For the flight you describe, you need about 10 gallons in the tanks. If that's
what you had, you could carry about 365 pounds. You two totalled nearly 100
pounds more than that, and I'd bet those weights you quoted didn't include your
flight gear, winter coats, etc..

A typical 150 can get off the ground in well under 1,000' and climb at about 600
fpm at max gross at your elevation. They'll do better at sea level, of course.
The '69 model I used to have gave me book performance with 6,000 hours on it and
a mid-time engine.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[John Gaquin]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message news:K4g0c.1049
>
> "John Gaquin" > wrote in message
> >
> > I'll drink to that! I flew a couple of years in a 402 for a commuter on
> > Cape Cod years ago. One day on a busy holiday weekend the fog was in
(of
> > course) and I flew 22 approachs in one day, every one of them to or near
> > minimums. Slept the sleep of the just that night.
> >
> Piston poppers are definitely much more work especially with marginal
power
> envelopes during emergencies.

Never had any catastrophic failures(real) in that or any other airplane.
Flying the 402 was just going to work. I didn't think I was working
particularly hard at the time, until I got into a Boeing. That made the
single-pilot 402 look like a labor camp. :-)

[john smith]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>Well, in retrospect it's hard to say if we were really over gross, or if
>>that's just how a 150 always performs.
>
>
> You were well over. A typical 150 can carry about 300 pounds with full fuel.
> For the flight you describe, you need about 10 gallons in the tanks. If that's
> what you had, you could carry about 365 pounds. You two totalled nearly 100
> pounds more than that, and I'd bet those weights you quoted didn't include your
> flight gear, winter coats, etc..
>
> A typical 150 can get off the ground in well under 1,000' and climb at about 600
> fpm at max gross at your elevation. They'll do better at sea level, of course.
> The '69 model I used to have gave me book performance with 6,000 hours on it and
> a mid-time engine.

I wonder, when the good doctor offered his C150 to the pilot, did he
know there would be a second "pilot" along for the return flight?

[john smith]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>>>You don't usually get to handle the controls with a stripper. :-(

>>Which "controls" are you referring to?

> The tuning knobs, of course.

Reminds me of an old Reader's Digest, Campus Comedy tale...

A yound coed was having difficulty opening the drawers of her dorm room
bureau, so she put in a request for maintenance.

A day later, she was in the midst of changing when a knock came at the
door. She quickly through on a robe and answered the door.

It was the maintence man, who announced, "Hi, I'm here to fix the knobs
on your chest."

[Dave Katz]

The flight is not really a charter. A doctor donates the use of his airplane
and pilot to fly a mission for a related party. Hardly unusual and certainly
well within the limits of part 91. Now, whether the flight violated school
sports recruiting standards might be another matter. :-)

For what it's worth, one of the side notes of the OSU basketball team
King Air 200 crash in Colorado in early 2001 was that the FAA declared
it to be a part 135 flight even though the situation was very similar
to this (the owner donated the use of the aircraft to the university,
and claimed to be operating it under part 91.) In that case as well
there was a pilot in the right seat who was not employed by the
operator nor trained in the operation of a BE20. I don't recall
whether he was multirated or not.

As these things always turn on subtleties, the two cases may well not
be comparable, but these things are seldom simple. If it walks and
quacks like a charter (on-demand ride somewhere in an aircraft not
owned or operated by the folks being transported) the FAA may well
declare it as such, even if no money changes hands. They get very
itchy about this sort of thing. The old adage about the victors
writing history comes to mind.

Not to rain on Jay's parade; I've got about 30 hours in King Air 200s
and they're a real hoot to fly, and well mannered and easy (as long
as nothing breaks...) My very first landing was at SFO, much to my
terror...

BTW, the NTSB ultimately decided that the cause of the OSU crash was a
failing AC inverter, which caused much of the instrumentation to die,
and a graveyard spiral resulted; as Jay now knows the plane has two
and required only a switch flip to bring the second one online, which
apparently the pilot failed to do even when faced with a whole lot of
warning lights.

[Jay Honeck]

> I wonder, when the good doctor offered his C150 to the pilot, did he
> know there would be a second "pilot" along for the return flight?

Actually the C-150 belongs to our FBO. They let the good doctor use it so
that he can reposition his King Air -- which he somehow leases back to them.

It's a complicated arrangement, and one I don't fully understand -- but it
seems to work well for all concerned.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

Dave Katz wrote:
> Not to rain on Jay's parade; I've got about 30 hours in King Air 200s
> and they're a real hoot to fly, and well mannered and easy (as long
> as nothing breaks...) My very first landing was at SFO, much to my
> terror...

Yes, you might want to mention the 120 knot single engine approach
speed. ;-)

[Dave Katz]

john smith > writes:

> Yes, you might want to mention the 120 knot single engine approach
> speed. ;-)

Haven't done a single engine approach, happily, but I did have to do a
couple of no-flaps approaches (at night) after the rather odd
split-flap avoidance mechanism failed (by refusing to move the flaps
at all.) 120 over the fence was kind of fun; luckily the runways were
long (VNY and MRY) and reversable props are quite helpful. I believe
my quote of the evening was "Yee hah!" ;-)

They're just overgrown Barons, really, with better short field
performance. ;-)

[Jay Honeck]

> In that case as well
> there was a pilot in the right seat who was not employed by the
> operator nor trained in the operation of a BE20.

If a King Air 200 is a "BE20," is a King Air 90 a "BE9"?

Just want to fill out the logbook correctly, and I didn't think to ask at
12:30 AM...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> If a King Air 200 is a "BE20," is a King Air 90 a "BE9"?

The 90 and A90 to E90 designations are "BE9L". The F90 is a "BE9T".

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[Jack Allison]

Glad you got the 150 experience to (hopefully) keep you a little humble
there Jay :-)

Very cool. You owe Mary big time.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck]

> Very cool. You owe Mary big time.

No kidding. We STILL don't have all the artwork hung, cuz I bailed out on
her...
:-(

But it was worth it!
:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Sixkiller]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message news:K4g0c.1049
> >
> > "John Gaquin" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > I'll drink to that! I flew a couple of years in a 402 for a commuter
on
> > > Cape Cod years ago. One day on a busy holiday weekend the fog was in
> (of
> > > course) and I flew 22 approachs in one day, every one of them to or
near
> > > minimums. Slept the sleep of the just that night.
> > >
> > Piston poppers are definitely much more work especially with marginal
> power
> > envelopes during emergencies.
>
> Never had any catastrophic failures(real) in that or any other airplane.
> Flying the 402 was just going to work. I didn't think I was working
> particularly hard at the time, until I got into a Boeing. That made the
> single-pilot 402 look like a labor camp. :-)

Our company (many years ago) had a 340, then traded up to a Conquest. What a
difference. A while back they finally unloaded the Conquest and got a
Citation CJ. That's like being on vacation by comparison.