Going through ATL

[[email protected]]

I will be flying down to the NASCAR race in Atlanta on March 14th. For
those of you who have flown out of races, it is a pain in the butt to get an
IFR clearance and get out of the airport quickly. By far, the best way is
to take off VFR and try to file and get a clearance in the air. The airport
is under the class B veil and is due south of ATL. I want to go northbound.
For pilots familiar with the area, what are my chance that I could get
permission to go through class B airspace and go directly over the airport
(6500 MSL) or am I more than likely not going to get clearance into class B
and have to work around the city? Are the folks at ATL approach pretty
friendly or just too busy to concern themselves with me?

Advise from people familiar with ATL approach is appreciated.

Thanks,
Kevin

[john smith]

wrote:
> I will be flying down to the NASCAR race in Atlanta on March 14th. For
> those of you who have flown out of races, it is a pain in the butt to get an
> IFR clearance and get out of the airport quickly. By far, the best way is
> to take off VFR and try to file and get a clearance in the air. The airport
> is under the class B veil and is due south of ATL. I want to go northbound.
> For pilots familiar with the area, what are my chance that I could get
> permission to go through class B airspace and go directly over the airport
> (6500 MSL) or am I more than likely not going to get clearance into class B
> and have to work around the city? Are the folks at ATL approach pretty
> friendly or just too busy to concern themselves with me?

My recommendation:
Get the direct dial (866) number for the AFSS that serves ATL.
Ask the briefer for the telephone number for the ATL Approach Watch Desk.
Call the Watch Desk and discuss the matter with them directly.

[PhyrePhox]

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Hash: SHA1

There is a guy working the ATL approach control that is just
incredible. I was flying in there one night on United and listening
in on channel 9 as he kept calling out flights and vectors one after
the other never missing a beat. When we turned base I looked out the
window and there must have been close to 100 other planes in the
pattern behind us heading for both runways.

I can remember thinking, how does he keep everybody straight in his
head? It was very cool.

Paul Davis

" > wrote in
message ...
> I will be flying down to the NASCAR race in Atlanta on March 14th.
> For those of you who have flown out of races, it is a pain in the
> butt to get an IFR clearance and get out of the airport quickly.
> By far, the best way is to take off VFR and try to file and get a
> clearance in the air. The airport is under the class B veil and is
> due south of ATL. I want to go northbound. For pilots familiar
> with the area, what are my chance that I could get permission to go
> through class B airspace and go directly over the airport (6500
> MSL) or am I more than likely not going to get clearance into class
> B and have to work around the city? Are the folks at ATL approach
> pretty friendly or just too busy to concern themselves with me?
>
> Advise from people familiar with ATL approach is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>

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[[email protected]]

On a normal day, your chances would be pretty good. However, things get
busy after races. If there is a lot of traffic leaving Griffin or Falcon
field, the controllers may be a bit busy to deal with another VFR flight
through the corridor.

KB


" > wrote in message
...
> I will be flying down to the NASCAR race in Atlanta on March 14th. For
> those of you who have flown out of races, it is a pain in the butt to get
an
> IFR clearance and get out of the airport quickly. By far, the best way is
> to take off VFR and try to file and get a clearance in the air. The
airport
> is under the class B veil and is due south of ATL. I want to go
northbound.
> For pilots familiar with the area, what are my chance that I could get
> permission to go through class B airspace and go directly over the airport
> (6500 MSL) or am I more than likely not going to get clearance into class
B
> and have to work around the city? Are the folks at ATL approach pretty
> friendly or just too busy to concern themselves with me?
>
> Advise from people familiar with ATL approach is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
>

[Darkwing Duck]

"PhyrePhox" > wrote in message
...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> There is a guy working the ATL approach control that is just
> incredible. I was flying in there one night on United and listening
> in on channel 9 as he kept calling out flights and vectors one after
> the other never missing a beat. When we turned base I looked out the
> window and there must have been close to 100 other planes in the
> pattern behind us heading for both runways.
>
> I can remember thinking, how does he keep everybody straight in his
> head? It was very cool.
>
> Paul Davis
>


Did he sound like Billy Bob Thornton?

[Mike Weller]

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:13:37 GMT, john smith > wrote:

wrote:
>> I will be flying down to the NASCAR race in Atlanta on March 14th.

>My recommendation:
>Get the direct dial (866) number for the AFSS that serves ATL.
>Ask the briefer for the telephone number for the ATL Approach Watch Desk.
>Call the Watch Desk and discuss the matter with them directly.

Whew, what a breath of fresh air. You said that so well.

Bar none, when I've called the facility supervisor when I felt a
little bit unclear about something like that, I got almost royal
treatment. It seems to me that the supervisors are actually human and
enjoy a little bit of stretching to help a pilot out.

Mike Weller

[Dennis O'Connor]

That's wonderful...
Now, how is the average pilot supposed to know that there is such a thing as
an 'Approach Watch Desk'? Or, that FSS is the part of the system which has
the phone numbers for 'supervisors' identified by this internal jargon
within ATC? Where in the AIM is this information contained? How many CFI
or CFII folks give their students this specific information?

Rhetorical questions to make a point...
denny

>Get the direct dial (866) number for the AFSS that serves ATL.
> >Ask the briefer for the telephone number for the ATL Approach Watch Desk.
> >Call the Watch Desk and discuss the matter with them directly.

[john smith]

I cannot remember how or when I first learned about such things, but I
do know that I learned about it within five years of obtaining my PPC.
It was either when I was working on my IR or doing research on
airspace.Flight Service has many numbers of intererst, so they will give
you, some they won't. They can contact any Customs officer in their area
24/7.


One of the real interesting things I have ever seen was/(is) the front
wall of the San Juan PR FSS.They have the names and telephone numbers
for probably every aviation related contact in the Caribbean affixed to
it. The letters and numbers are large enough to clearly read from the
back of the room.

Dennis O'Connor wrote:
> That's wonderful...
> Now, how is the average pilot supposed to know that there is such a thing as
> an 'Approach Watch Desk'? Or, that FSS is the part of the system which has
> the phone numbers for 'supervisors' identified by this internal jargon
> within ATC? Where in the AIM is this information contained? How many CFI
> or CFII folks give their students this specific information?
> Rhetorical questions to make a point...
> denny

>>Get the direct dial (866) number for the AFSS that serves ATL.
>>>Ask the briefer for the telephone number for the ATL Approach Watch Desk.
>>>Call the Watch Desk and discuss the matter with them directly.

[Chip Jones]

" > wrote in message
...
> I will be flying down to the NASCAR race in Atlanta on March 14th. For
> those of you who have flown out of races, it is a pain in the butt to get
an
> IFR clearance and get out of the airport quickly. By far, the best way is
> to take off VFR and try to file and get a clearance in the air. The
airport
> is under the class B veil and is due south of ATL. I want to go
northbound.
> For pilots familiar with the area, what are my chance that I could get
> permission to go through class B airspace and go directly over the airport
> (6500 MSL) or am I more than likely not going to get clearance into class
B
> and have to work around the city? Are the folks at ATL approach pretty
> friendly or just too busy to concern themselves with me?
>
> Advise from people familiar with ATL approach is appreciated.
>


1. What airport are you flying into? Sounds like 4A7, which is literally
right at the racetrack.

2. When you depart, what airport are you flying back to?



Chip, ZTL

[Chip Jones]

"PhyrePhox" > wrote in message
...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> There is a guy working the ATL approach control that is just
> incredible. I was flying in there one night on United and listening
> in on channel 9 as he kept calling out flights and vectors one after
> the other never missing a beat. When we turned base I looked out the
> window and there must have been close to 100 other planes in the
> pattern behind us heading for both runways.
>
> I can remember thinking, how does he keep everybody straight in his
> head? It was very cool.

And just think, as good as he was, the best three controllers at Atlanta
Approach are all women. No kidding.

Chip, ZTL

[Mike Weller]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:01:32 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
> wrote:

>That's wonderful...

Well, frankly, yes it is. Let me see if I can address your questions.

>Now, how is the average pilot supposed to know that there is such a thing as
>an 'Approach Watch Desk'?

You're not expected to, but as a working CFI and Commercial Pilot, I
spent a lot of time bull****ing with fellow instructors and local
pilots, and when waiting for the boss to do his business, the pilots
at every airport I go to. The list of subjects that spins around with
a group of pilots cooling their heals is almost infinite.

The first time I discovered the ease and beauty of this approach was
doing aerial survey work for the Nashville Airport Authority. I had
the contract to do it, but the Airport Authority only owns the ground
stuff that makes up an airport. They don't own the overlying
airspace. I talked to the supervisor and he briefed the controller
that I would be flying race tracks at 2000 AGL. It turned that when I
got up there, they were in the middle of a push. I thought I had died
and gone to heaven to fly back and forth across that airport and watch
the traffic coming and going. The tower would constantly asked me if
I had specific landing aircraft in sight. "Sir, you bet your sweet
ass I do." There is a neat little book called "The Cellular Pilot"
that Sporty's puts in each order. To me, if you want to have a
usable list of tower supervisors, this book is the way to go.
Beware, however, that the TRACON number may just get you the gal at
the front, which is fine during business hours because you simply tell
her "Hello, Cessna 12345. I need to talk to the active TRACON (or
ARTCC) supervisor."

After hours, you'll get an answering machine. Soo, you dial wx-brief.
Put the number they give you got on your PDA, or reverse write it on
your forehead so that whenever you look in a mirror you see it and
memorize it without even trying.

> Or, that FSS is the part of the system which has
>the phone numbers for 'supervisors' identified by this internal jargon
>within ATC?

It's the "Service" part of FSS. Most pilots don't use a lot of what
FSS can do. DUATS is good for most situations, but FSS can add that
extra enhancement that you need.

>Where in the AIM is this information contained?

Sadly, nowhere. There are clues in the AFD.

> How many CFI
>or CFII folks give their students this specific information?
>

I was going to be flippant and say, "Why should we give out this
information to the un-washed masses. They'll call the supervisor and
ask him, 'How's the weather over there' , or something similar.

Lord, the more I think about it, that's true. And as a CFII, I do
tell my students how to find those numbers. But they forget it as
fast as I mention it. Not many, but still... there are way too many
idiots that would bring the system to its knees, and the poor ATC guys
to brink of insanity. Really, how many old folks do you hear that
sound like they're not understanding anything and talk in an early
1950s flying movie dialect... "Calling Houston! Calling Houston!
Come in Houston, this is the Secret Rocket Ship to Mars! Calling
Houston, <without un keying the Mic> Calling Houston, Come in
Houston..."

>Rhetorical questions to make a point...
>denny
>

And that's fine. I hope this helps.

Mike Weller

[Dennis O'Connor]

Ya did good, Mike...
denny

"Mike Weller" > wrote in > >Rhetorical questions to
make a point...
> >denny
> >
>
> And that's fine. I hope this helps.
>
> Mike Weller
>
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

The instant I read that Chip, a whole host of PMS / NOW scenarios thundered
through my head... I'm still snickering <typical male misogynist pig
reaction:>

Anyway, I have been worked by some sharp lady controllers over the years...
Skill doesn't depend upon gender...

denny
"Chip Jones" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "PhyrePhox" > wrote in message
> ...
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > There is a guy working the ATL approach control that is just
> > incredible. I was flying in there one night on United and listening
> > in on channel 9 as he kept calling out flights and vectors one after
> > the other never missing a beat. When we turned base I looked out the
> > window and there must have been close to 100 other planes in the
> > pattern behind us heading for both runways.
> >
> > I can remember thinking, how does he keep everybody straight in his
> > head? It was very cool.
>
> And just think, as good as he was, the best three controllers at Atlanta
> Approach are all women. No kidding.
>
> Chip, ZTL
>
>

[Capt.Doug]

>"Chip Jones" wrote in message > And just think, as good as he was, the best
>three controllers at Atlanta Approach are all women. No kidding.

Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices turn out to be
butt ugly?

Unfortunately there are bad eggs in every crowd. I was ferrying a Caravan
into PDK from the southeast a few months back. When I asked the controller
for clearance through the class Bravo, he replied that they never give VFR
clearances to anyone. He stated that ATL was the busiest airport in the
country and that I shouldn't even think about it, ever. He came across as
arrogant. I replied that it would have been nice if he had made that known
before I had to blow out my passenger's ears in a rapid descent. He replied,
"Remain clear of the Class B".

That didn't sit well with me. However I am humble, shy, and bashful. So, I
told him I wasn't from the area and had no knowledge of the local
traditions. I was from Miami, which has more operations per runway than ATL
and I routinely fly in there VFR. Then I asked if perhaps that was because
the MIA controllers were better.

D.

[john smith]

wrote:
> On a normal day, your chances would be pretty good. However, things get
> busy after races. If there is a lot of traffic leaving Griffin or Falcon
> field, the controllers may be a bit busy to deal with another VFR flight
> through the corridor.

If you have flown to a NASCAR race, you are missing a mini-AirVenture
opportunity.
I went to Taladega four years ago. There is segregation by "heavy-iron"
and everything else. Heavy iron is 20-25% of what is on the field. Heavy
iron gets the paved ramp space, everything else gets the turf.

I arrived a half-hour prior to the start of the race, so traffic was
light. Everyone else had arrive earlier. The field was full with several
hundred aircraft.

After the race, I had to pay my fuel bill. By the time I got back to my
plane, a half-hour had elapsed and the lines from the approach end of
the runway to the back of the pave ramp space was a good mile-and-a-half
long. Had I arrived earlier, gotten my fuel and paid before the race, I
would have cranked, taxied and departed within 15 minutes.
I started the engine and taxied maybe 300 feet to a paved taxiway and
shut down.We then pulled the plane (V35B) the first three-quarter mile
to the parallel taxiway next to the runway and then up the taxiway as
the que progressed.

IFR departures were being sequenced in from the main ramp to the
approach end of the runway, with VFR departures interspersed and
departing from the first taxiway from the approach end.

The race was over at 4:00pm. I started up to position onto the first
taxiway at 4:30pm. I was wheels up, VFR, at 7:00pm.

Twenty-five nm north of Taladega I called ATL Center and picked up VFR
flight following for the remainder of my flight.

It was a fun trip which I will probably do again.
Next time, I will bring my camping gear and spend the night of the field
with others. They do allow camping.

[Kevin Chandler]

Thanks for the advice.

It worked well. They are very friendly and very happy that I called ahead
of time to get their opinion. They told me to ask to overfly Hartsfield at
5500 on the way down; however , go around under class B until I get north of
Hartsfield on the way back. They will be way too busy to get VFR traffic
identified and cleared to go over ATL before the plane gets into class B.
They don't want anyone circling and/or climbing to get over ATL after the
race. The area will be too conjested.

Kevin

[Chip Jones]

"Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
...
> >"Chip Jones" wrote in message > And just think, as good as he was, the
best
> >three controllers at Atlanta Approach are all women. No kidding.
>
> Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices turn out to
be
> butt ugly?

LOL!

>
> Unfortunately there are bad eggs in every crowd. I was ferrying a Caravan
> into PDK from the southeast a few months back. When I asked the controller
> for clearance through the class Bravo, he replied that they never give VFR
> clearances to anyone. He stated that ATL was the busiest airport in the
> country and that I shouldn't even think about it, ever. He came across as
> arrogant. I replied that it would have been nice if he had made that known
> before I had to blow out my passenger's ears in a rapid descent. He
replied,
> "Remain clear of the Class B".

Well whoever he was, he was full of hooey. ATL/A80 routinely issues VFR
clearances through the Class B.

>
> That didn't sit well with me. However I am humble, shy, and bashful. So, I
> told him I wasn't from the area and had no knowledge of the local
> traditions. I was from Miami, which has more operations per runway than
ATL
> and I routinely fly in there VFR. Then I asked if perhaps that was because
> the MIA controllers were better.

Well, two things are going on in Atlanta-land. First of all, Columbus GA
and Macon GA Tracons have been consolidated into the Atlanta A80 VLT (Very
Large Tracon). All of the radar controllers from Columbus and Macon got a
big pay raise and then moved to Peachtree City where the new A80 Tracon is.
Subsequently over the last two years, all but three of these folks have been
washed out of the Atlanta Tracon training program and have been shipped out
to lower level facilities. There was a *lot* of rancor and hard feeling for
many of these people, because they were happy at CSG or MCN, were even
happier getting a 40-thousand dollar raise when they were consolidated with
ATL, and are now very unhappy getting shipped off to the boonies as a
training failure. A lot of this rancor came through over the radios and the
land-lines.

Second, Atlanta is a busy place, but it isn't the busiest. I saw somewhere
that Atlanta Tracon was the 5th busiest Tracon in the country and Atlanta
Tower was the 2nd busiest Tower in the country (Behind ORD, I think).
However, there is a HUGE controversy going down right now regarding Tracon
controller pay in Atlanta-land. Controllers get paid based on a scale that
runs from ATC-6 (I think) for the little towers to ATC-14. This pay scale
takes into account both volume and complexity in a formula to classify a
facility's pa, and it sets concrete benchmarks/goalposts for each pay grade,
including ATC-13 ans ATC-14.

The super busy places like Atlanta Approach/Tower, Chicago Approach, New
York Approach, SCT, and other busy towers and Tracons, are currently ATC-12
facilities. So are 8 of the nation's 20 ARTCC's. ATC-12 down here in
Atlanta runs out to around $150,000.00 including all of the differentials,
COLA's and mandatory OT. Currently, no ATC facility is getting paid at
ATC-13 or ATC-14 grades even though the controller pay scale goes that high.

Atlanta Approach used to be located in a radar room at the base of the ATL
tower until a few years ago. Controllers assigned to the ATL facility
worked both the tower cab and also the Tracon radar room. Then the FAA
decided to build a new state-of-the-art Very Large Tracon (aka "Big Assed
Tracon" or "BAT") for the Atlanta area. The plan was to build the
facility, officially designated A80 and then begin consolidation of several
smaller Tracons into the new facility in order to save money.

The controllers union (NATCA) saw the writing on the wall. Thee FAA was
giving the A80 designator to the new facility, while retaining the ATL
designator for the tower cab. Obviously FAA had plans to eventually split
the Tracon from the Tower, just like in Chicago and elsewhere. NATCA
negotiated an MOU with the FAA saying that for an extended period of time
(for "X" many years, I don't know how many), no matter what, the personnel
assigned to Atlanta Tower/Atlanta Approach would be in the same bargaining
unit and would work both at the tower and at the Tracon. FAA signed the
agreement.

Consequently, the complexity-index associated with the combined ATL/A80
facility began to climb, especially when CSG and MCN Tracons were
consolidated into Atlanta Approach. In 2002, the ATL/A80 Tracon crossed the
complexity/volume level to become ATC-13. This was largely because Atlanta
controllers not only worked in the 5th busiest Tracon but also in the 2nd
busiest (and at times the busiest) Tower cab. This gave them a higher
workload index than any other contollers in USA. They began to clamor for
their ATC-13 pay. FAA refused to live up to it's pay agreement, especially
since places like New York and Southern Cal are clearly busier Tracons at
ATC-12. After a year or more of wrangling, a period where even NATCA teams
from Chicago, New York, Southern Cal etc came down to try to invalidate
Atlanta'a claims to ATC-13, FAA finally validated the ATC-13 level for
Atlanta Approach. However, rather than give Atlanta controllers the
agreed-upon regulated pay raise to ATC-13, FAA decided the time had come to
split the Tracon from the Tower to avoid paying ATC-13. FAA subsequently
reneged on their MOU with NATCA concerning the A80/ATL facility (apparently
even going so far as to claim that FAA Administrator Jane Garvey didn't
represent the US Government back when the A80 MOU was signed, hehehe).
Right now, you have a lot of ****ed off controllers in Atlanta who see
themselves as victims of the latest Marion Blakey back-stab. There may soon
be a lot of bad eggs, perhaps a case of the workforce imitating Miss
Manegement.

Chip, ZTL

[Kevin Chandler]

I have gone to Talladega twice. About 4 years ago with my brother. We sat
in turn 4. Jogged to the plane going with the flow of traffic leaving the
front stretch and made it to the plane in about 30 minutes. Fired it up and
was in the air in 10 minutes. I flew a Mooney which had gas to go non-stop
to Dayton and I was home in my lazyboy by 9:00.

Last October I went with the entire family. Sat at the trioval and went
against the flow of traffic (towards turn 1). No jogging (youngest is 7).
Go to the plane in about an hour. Waited in line to take off for 1.5 hours.
Flew an Archer that is much slower and does not have the gas to make it
non-stop. Stopped in Lexington for fuel and got home at midnight.

It must be the difference in the planes :)

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > On a normal day, your chances would be pretty good. However, things get
> > busy after races. If there is a lot of traffic leaving Griffin or
Falcon
> > field, the controllers may be a bit busy to deal with another VFR flight
> > through the corridor.
>
> If you have flown to a NASCAR race, you are missing a mini-AirVenture
> opportunity.
> I went to Taladega four years ago. There is segregation by "heavy-iron"
> and everything else. Heavy iron is 20-25% of what is on the field. Heavy
> iron gets the paved ramp space, everything else gets the turf.
>
> I arrived a half-hour prior to the start of the race, so traffic was
> light. Everyone else had arrive earlier. The field was full with several
> hundred aircraft.
>
> After the race, I had to pay my fuel bill. By the time I got back to my
> plane, a half-hour had elapsed and the lines from the approach end of
> the runway to the back of the pave ramp space was a good mile-and-a-half
> long. Had I arrived earlier, gotten my fuel and paid before the race, I
> would have cranked, taxied and departed within 15 minutes.
> I started the engine and taxied maybe 300 feet to a paved taxiway and
> shut down.We then pulled the plane (V35B) the first three-quarter mile
> to the parallel taxiway next to the runway and then up the taxiway as
> the que progressed.
>
> IFR departures were being sequenced in from the main ramp to the
> approach end of the runway, with VFR departures interspersed and
> departing from the first taxiway from the approach end.
>
> The race was over at 4:00pm. I started up to position onto the first
> taxiway at 4:30pm. I was wheels up, VFR, at 7:00pm.
>
> Twenty-five nm north of Taladega I called ATL Center and picked up VFR
> flight following for the remainder of my flight.
>
> It was a fun trip which I will probably do again.
> Next time, I will bring my camping gear and spend the night of the field
> with others. They do allow camping.
>

[Kevin Chandler]

I will be flying in 4A7.

I will be returning to Dayton Ohio, Dayton-Wright Brother airport (MGY).

[Dan Luke]

"Capt.Doug" wrote:
> Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices
> turn out to be butt ugly?

When I visited ZTL a few years ago, all three lady controllers I met
were hotties. Now, every time I talk to a female ZTL controller I get a
warm feeling.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

[Tom Sixkiller]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
>
> If you have flown to a NASCAR race, you are missing a mini-AirVenture
> opportunity.
> I went to Taladega four years ago. There is segregation by "heavy-iron"
> and everything else. Heavy iron is 20-25% of what is on the field. Heavy
> iron gets the paved ramp space, everything else gets the turf.
[snip good story]

I remember much the same after the Indianapolis 500 many years ago.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
> The instant I read that Chip, a whole host of PMS / NOW scenarios
thundered
> through my head... I'm still snickering <typical male misogynist pig
> reaction:>
>
> Anyway, I have been worked by some sharp lady controllers over the
years...
> Skill doesn't depend upon gender...
IIRC, tests have show that women are better at such tasks then men. Also,
IIRC, FlightSafety (?) did tests on men vs. women pilots; women were better
at handing the plane, but men were better at emergency procedures. Why might
that be?

[Newps]

>>>There is a guy working the ATL approach control that is just
>>>incredible.

Which is the direct opposite of what happens in Vegas any time a cloud
passes by. This week, several times, there were ground delays into
Vegas. Air Shuttle, an America West little guy that flys RJ's, was
given wheels up times of 90 minutes after the proposed time. When I
called flow to find out what was going on he said it was due to low
ceilings. He said to hold on while he pulled up the current weather, I
also pulled it up as he did. The current METAR was 40SCT 60BKN 10 -R.
With 4 runways the best they can do in these horrible conditions is to
land 32 airplanes an hour. All of us on frequency had a good laugh
about the putz's running LAS airspace. Except the Air Shuttle crew, who
now couldn't leave until 12:10 am.

[Chip Jones]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Capt.Doug" wrote:
> > Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices
> > turn out to be butt ugly?
>
> When I visited ZTL a few years ago, all three lady controllers I met
> were hotties. Now, every time I talk to a female ZTL controller I get a
> warm feeling.
> --

Yep, ZTL has some absolutley drop-dead gorgeous, kick-ass, sweet talking
female controllers. They give good heading too. :-)


Chip, ZTL

[Chris Ehlbeck]

That's odd. A few weeks ago (before my recent checkride!) my CFI and went
through the Class B with no problem. We got permission on the first try and
were vectored right over downtown and then right over the airport.
--
Chris Ehlbeck, PPSEL
"It's a license to learn."

"Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
...
> >"Chip Jones" wrote in message > And just think, as good as he was, the
best
> >three controllers at Atlanta Approach are all women. No kidding.
>
> Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices turn out to
be
> butt ugly?
>
> Unfortunately there are bad eggs in every crowd. I was ferrying a Caravan
> into PDK from the southeast a few months back. When I asked the controller
> for clearance through the class Bravo, he replied that they never give VFR
> clearances to anyone. He stated that ATL was the busiest airport in the
> country and that I shouldn't even think about it, ever. He came across as
> arrogant. I replied that it would have been nice if he had made that known
> before I had to blow out my passenger's ears in a rapid descent. He
replied,
> "Remain clear of the Class B".
>
> That didn't sit well with me. However I am humble, shy, and bashful. So, I
> told him I wasn't from the area and had no knowledge of the local
> traditions. I was from Miami, which has more operations per runway than
ATL
> and I routinely fly in there VFR. Then I asked if perhaps that was because
> the MIA controllers were better.
>
> D.
>
>

[Tony Cox]

"Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
...
> When I asked the controller
> for clearance through the class Bravo, he replied that they never give VFR
> clearances to anyone. He stated that ATL was the busiest airport in the
> country and that I shouldn't even think about it, ever.

So that'd be in the AFD then, right?

[Big John]

Tom

Have you gone shopping with a woman? They can't make up their minds.

A man goes and buys and leaves.

Jumping into the air.

In an emergency, women have to 'shop around' and waste time.

Men just look at the problem and take action to fix it.

Big John

Yes hon, I know you made the couch up for me to sleep on tonight :o(.



On Thus, 4 Mar 2004 15:15:46 -0700, "Tom Six killer"
> wrote:

>
>"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
>> The instant I read that Chip, a whole host of PMS / NOW scenarios
>thundered
>> through my head... I'm still snickering <typical male misogynist pig
>> reaction:>
>>
>> Anyway, I have been worked by some sharp lady controllers over the
>years...
>> Skill doesn't depend upon gender...
>IIRC, tests have show that women are better at such tasks then men. Also,
>IIRC, FlightSafety (?) did tests on men vs. women pilots; women were better
>at handing the plane, but men were better at emergency procedures. Why might
>that be?
>
>

[Chip Jones]

"Kevin Chandler" > wrote in message
...
> I will be flying in 4A7.
>
> I will be returning to Dayton Ohio, Dayton-Wright Brother airport (MGY).
>

Kevin, I'll snag a copy of the ATC race procedures for this year and try to
remember to post them here for you (and others). We have some specific
procedures in play for this race that are pretty complicated, and which
formalize how Atlanta Approach and Atlanta Center will deal with race
departures. That race always ends during our busy Sunday departure push off
of Hartsfield. Throw in a good VFR day and we will be sunk. And of course
we don't have the staffing to add extra people to handle the workload like
we used to, so service will not be nearly as good as it should.

If I were wanting an IFR, I'd not count on getting a pop-up until I was well
north of Atlanta, like 100 miles north. You will hear the freq congestion
on Atlanta Departure 126.97 and 121.0, and it will be just as bad on Atlanta
Center 133.1 (where you will want to be about 40 north of ATL). Getting
into the system IFR would be easier on the ground during this time frame.
If you file an IFR and depart VFR, you may not get a clearance due to
workload on any of those three freqs. You may not even be able to get a
word in edgewise for VFR F/F if it is super busy. There will be a temp
tower in place at 4A7 and I don't believe that you will get much of more of
a departure delay for IFR launch than you will get for a VFR launch
depending on how you stand in the taxi que.

What will you be flying? I should be working (ARTCC North Departure on
133.1), from the ground up to FL230 about 35-40 north of Atlanta and then
all the way to Kentucky.

Regards,

Chip, ZTL

I'm based at PDK which is under one of the ATL class B airspace shelfs. I
did all my training and all of my flying since then at PDK and have a lot of
experience tlking to ATL approach and center. The controllers are very
friendly. I have never been denied clearance through the class B even on
time when we have had big sporting events like the NASCAR race, the world
series, or the SEC championship. If it is really busy do expect to wait at
times. However, I have never had to wait longer than 4 to 5 minutes for a
clearance (and that was the day before thanksgiving when it is really busy).

" > wrote in message
...
> I will be flying down to the NASCAR race in Atlanta on March 14th. For
> those of you who have flown out of races, it is a pain in the butt to get
an
> IFR clearance and get out of the airport quickly. By far, the best way is
> to take off VFR and try to file and get a clearance in the air. The
airport
> is under the class B veil and is due south of ATL. I want to go
northbound.
> For pilots familiar with the area, what are my chance that I could get
> permission to go through class B airspace and go directly over the airport
> (6500 MSL) or am I more than likely not going to get clearance into class
B
> and have to work around the city? Are the folks at ATL approach pretty
> friendly or just too busy to concern themselves with me?
>
> Advise from people familiar with ATL approach is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
>

[Jens Krueger]

Chip Jones > wrote:

> Well, two things are going on in Atlanta-land. First of all

Chip,

this is very interesting reading, esp. since Pilots rarely getting a
picture of what's going on at ATC.

Thanks for sharing.

Jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

[Jens Krueger]

Chip Jones > wrote:

> They give good heading too. :-)

ROFL!

Are you going to pay for my new keyboard? I just spilled my evening
coffee all over it! :-)

Jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

[Kevin Chandler]

Chip,

I will be flying a Mooney (N4201U). I will actually be departing on Sunday
morning for the lake house at Deerfield (TN44). It seems like most of you
know about that airport. The return trip will be all the way back to
Dayton.

I won't know if I am talking to you or not.

Thanks in advance for the information,
Kevin

"Chip Jones" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Kevin Chandler" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I will be flying in 4A7.
> >
> > I will be returning to Dayton Ohio, Dayton-Wright Brother airport
(MGY).
> >
>
> Kevin, I'll snag a copy of the ATC race procedures for this year and try
to
> remember to post them here for you (and others). We have some specific
> procedures in play for this race that are pretty complicated, and which
> formalize how Atlanta Approach and Atlanta Center will deal with race
> departures. That race always ends during our busy Sunday departure push
off
> of Hartsfield. Throw in a good VFR day and we will be sunk. And of
course
> we don't have the staffing to add extra people to handle the workload like
> we used to, so service will not be nearly as good as it should.
>
> If I were wanting an IFR, I'd not count on getting a pop-up until I was
well
> north of Atlanta, like 100 miles north. You will hear the freq congestion
> on Atlanta Departure 126.97 and 121.0, and it will be just as bad on
Atlanta
> Center 133.1 (where you will want to be about 40 north of ATL). Getting
> into the system IFR would be easier on the ground during this time frame.
> If you file an IFR and depart VFR, you may not get a clearance due to
> workload on any of those three freqs. You may not even be able to get a
> word in edgewise for VFR F/F if it is super busy. There will be a temp
> tower in place at 4A7 and I don't believe that you will get much of more
of
> a departure delay for IFR launch than you will get for a VFR launch
> depending on how you stand in the taxi que.
>
> What will you be flying? I should be working (ARTCC North Departure on
> 133.1), from the ground up to FL230 about 35-40 north of Atlanta and then
> all the way to Kentucky.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chip, ZTL
>
>

[Chip Jones]

"Kevin Chandler" > wrote in message
...
> Chip,
>
> I will be flying a Mooney (N4201U). I will actually be departing on
Sunday
> morning for the lake house at Deerfield (TN44). It seems like most of you
> know about that airport. The return trip will be all the way back to
> Dayton.
>
> I won't know if I am talking to you or not.
>
> Thanks in advance for the information,
> Kevin
>

Kevin,

I'm at work Sunday from 0530 to 1500, and again that night from 2300 until
0700 Monday. We won't implement any "race traffic procedures" until the
afternoon on departures because they are a pain in the @ss for both Tracon
and ARTCC. In fact, IFR departure clearances shouldn't be hard to fit in
until the Nascar Air Force cranks up when the race ends. When you launch
I'll be on Center 133.1 and 127.05 there on the north side of Atlanta. That
is, if we don't have our one radar trainee plugged in at North Departure.
You'll be able to tell if the Center guy is a trainee. Our guy is an
ex-Tower Supervisor from a Level Two and he's struggling. You'll hear the
Delta boys eating his lunch on freq, hehehe. Your flight to TN44, if
launched IFR, will be routed out of the "North Two" Gate, aka NOTWO. You'll
get vectors through the gate (about the ATL010030) from Departure, and then
a handoff to ZTL. We'll clear you direct VXV direct, or just direct TN44 if
you ask.

If you launch VFR, you may be in luck for radar service from A80 going
northbound. If so, you likely will still get terminated as you leave Tracon
airspace. It should be really easy to either pick-up IFR or get F/F from
the Center assuming you beat the race crowd. If you are coming out from
under the Class B VFR along the east side of ATL, you may be far enough east
that your direct route to TN44 will be through a different ZTL sector from
mine. East of a line from LZU (Gwinnett County) to HRS VOR to VXV, you'll
want to be talking to ZTL on freq 134.8. At any rate, we expect to be very
very busy as the race ends but just routine until then. Once the show
starts, you likely won't be able to get an IFR pop-up or pick-up within 80
miles north or east of ATL no matter who you talk to.

As far as Deerfield, for most of us, it's relatively new in the world of
airport ID's. It's a resort airport, right? Some guys who used to fly in
there IFR/IMC before it had the ATC designator would do crazy stuff like
shoot approaches into Campbell County (JAU), cancel below the layer, and
then scud-run down through the weeds to get to Deerfield. That's how I
discovered Deerfield myself, one of those guys scared the daylights out of
me when he didn't cancel and didn't show up at JAU when we went looking for
him. Into JAU, we lose radar and radio with you at about 4000-4500 feet, so
I had no clue he wasn't actually landing there. He called from Deerfield to
cancel. That wouldn't have been you, would it? :-)

Chip, ZTL

I'll try to get those race procedures posted in the next couple of days. I
have to get them from our staff guys, and they haven't bothered yet to dust
them off for us...

[Chip Jones]

"Chip Jones" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
[snipped]
>
> I'll try to get those race procedures posted in the next couple of days.
I
> have to get them from our staff guys, and they haven't bothered yet to
dust
> them off for us...
>

Race procedures shouldn't effect most piston aircraft departing Atlanta
terminal area Sunday even when they get cranked up. The procedures impact
aircraft leaving 4A7 for Nascar home airports, most of which are in the
Charlotte NC area. Going north to MGY, it should be transparent except for
the volume (which will impact pop-up and pick-up service availability).

Chip, ZTL