Boeing Scaling Back its Air Traffic Management Business

[Larry Dighera]

Does this mean that Boeing will reduce its pressure on Congress to
privatize ATC?


BOEING said that it is scaling back its investment in its air
traffic management business and named Kevin Brown as the new
head, beginning April 1. Brown succeeds John Hayhurst, who is
retiring. Boeing also said the business will become part of
Phantom Works, Boeing's research and development unit. Brown,
whose new title will be VP, air traffic management, will report
to Robert Krieger, president of Phantom Works. "Boeing will
continue to pursue advances in air traffic management that will
enhance efficiency, capacity and security," said Boeing
President and Chief Executive Harry Stonecipher. "However, in
an effort to be more efficient, we are scaling down our
investment and making an organizational change to meet current
demand.
(Reuters 09:26 AM ET 03/04/2004)

More:

http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=932064&m=100624047be2505025131a&s=rb040304
----------------------------------------------------------------

[john smith]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> Does this mean that Boeing will reduce its pressure on Congress to
> privatize ATC?
> BOEING said that it is scaling back its investment in its air
> traffic management business and named Kevin Brown as the new
> head, beginning April 1. Brown succeeds John Hayhurst, who is
> retiring. Boeing also said the business will become part of
> Phantom Works, Boeing's research and development unit. Brown,
> whose new title will be VP, air traffic management, will report
> to Robert Krieger, president of Phantom Works. "Boeing will
> continue to pursue advances in air traffic management that will
> enhance efficiency, capacity and security," said Boeing
> President and Chief Executive Harry Stonecipher. "However, in
> an effort to be more efficient, we are scaling down our
> investment and making an organizational change to meet current
> demand.
> (Reuters 09:26 AM ET 03/04/2004)
> More:
> http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=932064&m=100624047be2505025131a&s=rb040304
> ----------------------------------------------------------------


They probably finally got the "real" numbers on how much it would
actually cost to run the system vice the low bid they would have to make
to win the contract. Losing proposition. I always wondered who would be
responsible for paying a lawsuit resulting from an accident/incident.
The government or the contractor?

[G.R. Patterson III]

john smith wrote:
>
> I always wondered who would be
> responsible for paying a lawsuit resulting from an accident/incident.
> The government or the contractor?

In similar situations, the government has been responsible.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[Randy at Home]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
| Larry Dighera wrote:
| > Does this mean that Boeing will reduce its pressure on Congress to
| > privatize ATC?
| > BOEING said that it is scaling back its investment in its air
| > traffic management business and named Kevin Brown as the new
| > head, beginning April 1. Brown succeeds John Hayhurst, who is
| > retiring. Boeing also said the business will become part of
| > Phantom Works, Boeing's research and development unit. Brown,
| > whose new title will be VP, air traffic management, will report
| > to Robert Krieger, president of Phantom Works. "Boeing will
| > continue to pursue advances in air traffic management that will
| > enhance efficiency, capacity and security," said Boeing
| > President and Chief Executive Harry Stonecipher. "However, in
| > an effort to be more efficient, we are scaling down our
| > investment and making an organizational change to meet current
| > demand.
| > (Reuters 09:26 AM ET 03/04/2004)
| > More:
| >
http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=932064&m=100624047be2505025131a&s=rb040304
| > ----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
| They probably finally got the "real" numbers on how much it would
| actually cost to run the system vice the low bid they would have to make
| to win the contract. Losing proposition. I always wondered who would be
| responsible for paying a lawsuit resulting from an accident/incident.
| The government or the contractor?

Boeing will probably lose any bid to an off-shore contractor with little or
no regard for (or understanding of) National Security will under-bid them.
Any new system be built by the lowest-bidder, you know, like the Space
Shuttle. It happens all to often in almost every other industry. So why
should Boeing even bother trying now?

[leslie]

Randy at Home ) wrote:
:
: Boeing will probably lose any bid to an off-shore contractor with little or
: no regard for (or understanding of) National Security will under-bid them.
: Any new system be built by the lowest-bidder, you know, like the Space
: Shuttle. It happens all to often in almost every other industry. So why
: should Boeing even bother trying now?
:
:

Boeing is joining the offshoring exodus...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/140822_boeingindia23.html
Boeing opening office in India to coordinate work there

"By DAN RICHMAN
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

The Boeing Co. said yesterday that it will open an administrative
office in India to better direct local companies doing manufacturing,
software development, and research and development for the
Chicago-based company.

Boeing spokesman Mark Hooper disputed a report in The Times of India
describing the planned office as "a wholly owned software subsidiary"
and a story by Bloomberg News calling it "a software R&D company."

"That has been misreported," Hooper said. "It's been characterized as
us hiring a lot of people. That's just not how it's happening. It's an
office of 10 or fewer employees. There will not be software
development or software R&D going on."

He said administrators in the office will coordinate work already
being done for Boeing by software giants such as Wipro Ltd. and
Infosys Technologies Ltd. The office also will supervise relations
with state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., which provides doors for
some Boeing planes, he said.

At the same time, Hooper left open the possibility that Boeing may
enlarge its Indian office.

"Our intention is to expand our R&D opportunities as they arise," he
said. "We have no specific plans to place work in India, but we'll
evaluate future opportunities that come up."

To open its office, Boeing has filed an application with India's
Foreign Investment Promotion Board, whose role is "to promote
accelerated growth in the industrial sector."

Hooper wouldn't say how much the company will invest in the office.
P-I reporter Dan Richman can be reached at 206-448-8032 or
"


--Jerry Leslie
Note: is invalid for email

[Randy at Home]

"leslie" > wrote in message
...
| Randy at Home ) wrote:
| :
| : Boeing will probably lose any bid to an off-shore contractor with little
or
| : no regard for (or understanding of) National Security will under-bid
them.
| : Any new system be built by the lowest-bidder, you know, like the Space
| : Shuttle. It happens all to often in almost every other industry. So why
| : should Boeing even bother trying now?
| :
| :
|
| Boeing is joining the offshoring exodus...
|
| http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/140822_boeingindia23.html
| Boeing opening office in India to coordinate work there

<snip>

I hope that someone on-shore is auditing, line-by-line, any off-shore
written software in ending up in airplanes or air traffic control systems.

I also wonder whether the bean counters at Boeing understand that
line-by-line software audits are more expensive that writing the code in the
first place.

[leslie]

Randy at Home ) wrote:
:
: I hope that someone on-shore is auditing, line-by-line, any off-shore
: written software in ending up in airplanes or air traffic control systems.
:

Both Airbus and HCL Tech are offshore...

http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/jun/16hcl.htm
HCL Tech to develop software for Airbus

"India's HCL Tech To Develop Embedded Software For Airbus Avionics

HCL Tech to develop software for Airbus
June 16, 2003 19:51 IST

HCL Technologies on Monday announced it has bagged a mandate from
French aircraft maker Airbus Industrie for the development of
sophisticated embedded software.

The software is to be used for the system data acquisition computer of
the Airbus A340 flight warning system, an HCL release said in New
Delhi.

The terms of reference of the project -- code named ODESA (Offshore
Development of Embedded Software for Airbus) -- will include migration
of the embedded software development environment from an older
technology platform to a newer platform in its first phase."

:
: I also wonder whether the bean counters at Boeing understand that
: line-by-line software audits are more expensive that writing the code
: in the first place.
:

I doubt it.

--Jerry Leslie
Note: is invalid for email

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 01:22:31 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote in Message-Id: >:

>
>Does this mean that Boeing will reduce its pressure on Congress to
>privatize ATC?
>
>
> BOEING said that it is scaling back its investment in its air
> traffic management business and named Kevin Brown as the new
> head, beginning April 1. Brown succeeds John Hayhurst, who is
> retiring. Boeing also said the business will become part of
> Phantom Works, Boeing's research and development unit. Brown,
> whose new title will be VP, air traffic management, will report
> to Robert Krieger, president of Phantom Works. "Boeing will
> continue to pursue advances in air traffic management that will
> enhance efficiency, capacity and security," said Boeing
> President and Chief Executive Harry Stonecipher. "However, in
> an effort to be more efficient, we are scaling down our
> investment and making an organizational change to meet current
> demand.
> (Reuters 09:26 AM ET 03/04/2004)
>
> More:
>
>http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=932064&m=100624047be2505025131a&s=rb040304
> ----------------------------------------------------------------



It looks like Boeing is not only scaling back its ATC division, it's
actually dissolving its Air Traffic Management division.



-------------------------------------------------------------------
AVflash Volume 10, Number 11a -- March 8, 2004

-------------------------------------------------------------------

BOEING DISSOLVES ATC DIVISION
Boeing is scaling back its bid to revolutionize the world's air
traffic control system because the existing setup seems to be
working just fine ... for now. The Chicago-based firm announced
Thursday that it was dissolving its Air Traffic Management
division, likely because it didn't have any customers for the
satellite-based, computer data link-dependent system. The air
traffic division was hatched in the halcyon days of 2000 when
airline traffic was growing so fast that the control system seemed
on the verge of collapse in some areas. Since 9/11, interest has
evaporated in the system as more conventional technological
solutions, and the outright intervention by government to reduce
congestion by decree, as happened in Chicago two months ago with
the forced reduction of flights to O'Hare, seem to be favored.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/207-full.html#186854

[Randy at Home]

"leslie" > wrote in message
...
| Randy at Home ) wrote:
| :
| : I hope that someone on-shore is auditing, line-by-line, any off-shore
| : written software in ending up in airplanes or air traffic control
systems.
| :
|
| Both Airbus and HCL Tech are offshore...
|
| http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/jun/16hcl.htm
| HCL Tech to develop software for Airbus
|
| "India's HCL Tech To Develop Embedded Software For Airbus Avionics
|
| HCL Tech to develop software for Airbus
| June 16, 2003 19:51 IST
|
| HCL Technologies on Monday announced it has bagged a mandate from
| French aircraft maker Airbus Industrie for the development of
| sophisticated embedded software.
|
| The software is to be used for the system data acquisition computer of
| the Airbus A340 flight warning system, an HCL release said in New
| Delhi.
|
| The terms of reference of the project -- code named ODESA (Offshore
| Development of Embedded Software for Airbus) -- will include migration
| of the embedded software development environment from an older
| technology platform to a newer platform in its first phase."
|
| :
| : I also wonder whether the bean counters at Boeing understand that
| : line-by-line software audits are more expensive that writing the code
| : in the first place.
| :
|
| I doubt it.

More reasons to buy/fly one's own bare-bones airplanes. That or remind me to
walk instead of fly.

[Larry Dighera]

Here's what AOPA has to say on the subject:

-------------------------------------------------------------
AOPA ePilot Volume 6, Issue 11 March 12, 2004
-------------------------------------------------------------

POSSIBLE ATC PRIVATIZATION EFFORT SCALED BACK
Boeing quietly let it be known that the company is scaling back
its efforts to develop new technologies for a next-generation air
traffic control system. The company unveiled the plan in June
2001; it would have required general aviation cockpits to add
equipment or be excluded from sizeable portions of the national
airspace system. "For AOPA members, Boeing's decision removes the
specter of an industry-driven push for privatized air traffic
control, at least for now," said AOPA President Phil Boyer.
"Boeing has assured us that they have no interest in privatizing
air traffic control--only pushing the system forward." See AOPA
Online
<http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2004/04-1-129x.html>


On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:00:48 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote in Message-Id: >:

>On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 01:22:31 GMT, Larry Dighera >
>wrote in Message-Id: >:
>
>>
>>Does this mean that Boeing will reduce its pressure on Congress to
>>privatize ATC?
>>
>>
>> BOEING said that it is scaling back its investment in its air
>> traffic management business and named Kevin Brown as the new
>> head, beginning April 1. Brown succeeds John Hayhurst, who is
>> retiring. Boeing also said the business will become part of
>> Phantom Works, Boeing's research and development unit. Brown,
>> whose new title will be VP, air traffic management, will report
>> to Robert Krieger, president of Phantom Works. "Boeing will
>> continue to pursue advances in air traffic management that will
>> enhance efficiency, capacity and security," said Boeing
>> President and Chief Executive Harry Stonecipher. "However, in
>> an effort to be more efficient, we are scaling down our
>> investment and making an organizational change to meet current
>> demand.
>> (Reuters 09:26 AM ET 03/04/2004)
>>
>> More:
>>
>>http://q1.schwab.com/s/r?l=248&a=932064&m=100624047be2505025131a&s=rb040304
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>It looks like Boeing is not only scaling back its ATC division, it's
>actually dissolving its Air Traffic Management division.
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> AVflash Volume 10, Number 11a -- March 8, 2004
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> BOEING DISSOLVES ATC DIVISION
> Boeing is scaling back its bid to revolutionize the world's air
> traffic control system because the existing setup seems to be
> working just fine ... for now. The Chicago-based firm announced
> Thursday that it was dissolving its Air Traffic Management
> division, likely because it didn't have any customers for the
> satellite-based, computer data link-dependent system. The air
> traffic division was hatched in the halcyon days of 2000 when
> airline traffic was growing so fast that the control system seemed
> on the verge of collapse in some areas. Since 9/11, interest has
> evaporated in the system as more conventional technological
> solutions, and the outright intervention by government to reduce
> congestion by decree, as happened in Chicago two months ago with
> the forced reduction of flights to O'Hare, seem to be favored.
> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/207-full.html#186854