Free flight computer software for iPad/iPhone

[WinPilot]

Hi all, Before we submit the new version of WinPilot for iOS to the AppStore, we would like to find the last few remaining bugs, and give the new features the final tweak.

In exchange for trying the software and providing us with your feedback, the software will be yours to keep for free.

Here is the list of features that are new in this version:

- Final Glide calculation around all task waypoints
- Custom Polar import
- Ability to import Turnpoints, Airspace Files, Polars, IGC logs directly from an email message into your flight computer (no iTunes necessary)
-In addidion to vector maps, now we also have ability to use tiled satellite and terrain (relief) maps. In fact, it is possible to have both the satellite map and relief map loaded at the same time, and switch between them with a touch of a button.
-Added support for AAT turnpoint zones, as well as DAEC sectors and start and finish lines, in addition to 90 FAI and cylinder zones.
- Added IGC log viewer superimposed on a Satellite/Terrain map that opens directly from an email message


If you would like to give try it on your iPad / iPhone, you will need to send us the identifier of your device, and we will reply with a link to the software and a User’s Manual. Here is how to get the 40 digit uuid:
1. Launch iTunes.
2. Connect your iOS device to your computer.
3. Select the device in the Devices list.
4. In the Summary pane, click the Serial Number label. It changes 
to uuid Identifier.
5. Choose Edit > Copy.
6. Email your device identifier to

Thank you,
Winpilot team

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

Are these features also to be released for Winpilot on PDA?

Chris N

[WinPilot]

The PNA version had several of these features for years, like final glide around all waypoints, area tasks and daec sectors. The iPad/iPhone version is trying hard to catch up.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:41:12 PM UTC-5, WinPilot wrote:
> The PNA version had several of these features for years, like final glide around all waypoints, area tasks and daec sectors. The iPad/iPhone version is trying hard to catch up.

WinPro for the WinCe 5 and 6 versions runs on my Avier (same as Vertica 2) but has a lot of bugs and hangs up. Would the WinPilot team please consider continuing to support that operating system!!!??? You guys still have a great product, would hate to have to switch to XCSoar or LK8000, have both also installed.
Putting all your eggs in the Apple basket is not making sense, look at the AAPL stock price!
Herb

[6PK]

On Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:17:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:41:12 PM UTC-5, WinPilot wrote:
>
> > The PNA version had several of these features for years, like final glide around all waypoints, area tasks and daec sectors. The iPad/iPhone version is trying hard to catch up.
>
>
>
> WinPro for the WinCe 5 and 6 versions runs on my Avier (same as Vertica 2) but has a lot of bugs and hangs up. Would the WinPilot team please consider continuing to support that operating system!!!??? You guys still have a great product, would hate to have to switch to XCSoar or LK8000, have both also installed.
>
> Putting all your eggs in the Apple basket is not making sense, look at the AAPL stock price!
>
> Herb

I too have to agree with this statement. Unfortunately the good folks at WinPilot stopped keeping up with progress. Still to date the features of WinPilot Pro are second to none.
I been playing with both SeeYou Mobile and XCSoar for over a year, wanting a better nicer dispay. XCSoar is interesting but it is a way different learning curve. Many nice features but where it counts IMO it does not measure up to WP.
I opted for SeeYou Mobil running on an Oudie since it is a very similar platform to WinPilot, it communicates with my 302 and calculates glide just fine.
What SYM lacks is a poor imitation of WP climb maximizer; I know there has been a lot of discussion whether or not one should use such things but believe me you whish you had one when down low trying to dig out. It really works! (Of course there were many arguments about why one does not need a compensated vario, audio vario, flight computer or a vario for that matter)
The WP thermal finder although not all that useful in the obvious places becomes rather important over flat lands; less than obvious spots.
Their aviation database by far the most comprehensive among the other systems has not been updated for a very long time, rendering it unfortunately useless. I for one would be more than willing to pay an annual subscription fee for it to be updated at least once a year.
An other interesting feature of the PRO is a speed to fly vertical bar that gets it's data from the flight computer. I much prefer it on the PDA/PNA display than the idiot light on the 302.
Both SYM and XCSoar claim to have this feature but it will not get any information from the computer. (It will "sort" of work if no computer is connected )
Both SYM and XCSoar systems offers PNA or Android based programs communicating with most modern flight computers. WinPilot only has the ADV version operating on a PNA and neither it or the Apple version will communicate with any systems.
I for one would switch back to WinPilot in a hearth beat providing the PRO could be available on a PNA (or other) version and the aviation data could be updated.
It's still the best system out there.
6PK

[Tim Taylor]

Yes, it is sad that WinPilot has decided to pursue the Apple platform rather that improving the base WinPilot Pro that was the standard at one time. Many of us tried to convince them to fix the weaknesses for several years. It still has the best thermal maximizer but the glaring faults finally lead me and most others the move on to other software.

Too bad SeeYou has not duplicated the thermal assistant to replace the weak one it currently has.

I finally gave up on WinPilot last year after frustrating issues that I had asked for changes cost me points on several tasks last year.

[Tim Taylor]

On Apr 21, 3:50*pm, 6PK > wrote:
> On Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:17:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:41:12 PM UTC-5, WinPilot wrote:
>
> > > The PNA version had several of these features for years, like final glide around all waypoints, area tasks and daec sectors. The iPad/iPhone version is trying hard to catch up.
>
> > WinPro for the WinCe 5 and 6 versions runs on my Avier (same as Vertica 2) but has a lot of bugs and hangs up. *Would the WinPilot team please consider continuing to support that operating system!!!??? *You guys still have a great product, would hate to have to switch to XCSoar or LK8000, have both also installed.
>
> > Putting all your eggs in the Apple basket is not making sense, look at the AAPL stock price!
>
> > Herb
>
> I too have to agree with this statement. Unfortunately the good folks at WinPilot stopped keeping up with progress. Still to date the features of WinPilot Pro are second to none.
> I been playing with both SeeYou Mobile and XCSoar for over a year, wanting a better nicer dispay. XCSoar is interesting but it is a way different learning curve. Many nice features but where it counts IMO it does not measure up to WP.
> I opted for SeeYou Mobil running on an Oudie since it is a very similar platform to WinPilot, it communicates with my 302 and calculates glide just fine.
> What SYM lacks is a poor imitation of WP climb maximizer; I know there has been a lot of discussion whether or not one should use such things but believe me you whish you had one when down low trying to dig out. It really works! (Of course there were many arguments about why one does not need a compensated vario, audio vario, flight computer or a vario for that matter)
> The WP thermal finder although not all that useful in the obvious places becomes rather important over flat lands; less than obvious spots.
> Their aviation database by far the most comprehensive among the other systems has not been updated for a very long time, rendering it unfortunately useless. I for one would be more than willing to pay an annual subscription fee for it to be updated at least once a year.
> An other interesting feature of the PRO is a speed to fly vertical bar that gets it's data from the flight computer. I much prefer it on the PDA/PNA display than the idiot light on the 302.
> Both SYM and XCSoar claim to have this feature but it will not get any information from the computer. (It will "sort" of work if no computer is connected )
> Both SYM and XCSoar systems offers PNA or Android based programs communicating with most modern flight computers. WinPilot only has the ADV version operating on a PNA and neither it or the Apple version will communicate with any systems.
> I for one would switch back to WinPilot in a hearth beat providing the PRO could be available on a PNA (or other) version and the aviation data could be updated.
> It's still the best system out there.
> 6PK

Yes, it is sad that WinPilot has decided to pursue the Apple platform
rather than improving the base WinPilot Pro that was the standard at
one time. Many of us tried to convince them to fix the weaknesses for
several years. It still has the best thermal maximizer but the
glaring faults finally led me and most others the move on to other
software. Parallels to Cambridge are very similar.

Too bad SeeYou has not duplicated the WinPilot thermal assistant to
replace the weak one it currently has.

I finally gave up on WinPilot last year after frustrating issues that
I had asked to be changed cost me points on several tasks last year.

[WinPilot]

Thanks for all the comments about the PNA version. Recently we have updated the aviation database for PNA and also the iPAQ for 2013. It includes combination of most recently available airspace files either from soaringweb..org, or from files that people responsible for maintaining airspace in given countries sent us.
The file for Europe is at: http://www.winpilot.com/AVDB/WP_Europe_Install_1301.exe
We also have an unpacked version of this file that can be copied directly into a PNA device at: http://www.winpilot.com/AVDB/Europe_1301.wa1 . People who see any errors or omissions should contact us with suggested corrections.

Regarding the discussion about which mobile hardware platform will win in the long term, of course nobody has a crystal ball to tell for sure what will happen, therefore, people must make their own assumptions. At this very moment the sales volume leaders in this market are Samsung and Apple, and they do not support the PNA platform. Everybody can see the future in a slightly different way, usually nobody gets it quite right, and the way we see it is that in a not too long of a time the in-the-pilot-bag instrument market will be dominated by two platforms: Android and iOS.
We understand that there are several companies developing flight software for Android already. Unfortunately, on the inside, Android is a very different from iOS, therefore, from the software developer point of view, maintaining one code base for both platforms seems like a difficult task. Given that we choose to support the iOS, mostly due to its superiority of the user experience (which is also very subjective), and quality and visibility in sunlight of its screens (especially the beautiful retina display). It was a risky decision because the Android market has a lot of traction as well, given that their devices are usually cheaper. It looks like the manufacturers of flight computers for power planes are jumping on the Android/iOS band wagon as well, as seemingly every week there is a new product coming out. It looks like introduction of the mini iPad was the turning point there.

Having said that, we understand that there are still several of you running WinPilot either on the iPAQ, or on one of the several PNA platforms. Some time ago we have published both ADV and PRO versions of WP for PNA version is 12, these are available at: http://www.winpilot.com/New_Download.aspx..
We are planning to release an updated version of the PNA version, it probably will not support every PNA device in existence, but we will focus on the most popular ones.
If you are considering buying a PNA device to run WinPilot, please send us an email which device are you considering. If you are running WP on PNA now, and are experiencing any issues, please email us the type of device, and what issue do you have. Please do not use this particular thread for this subject, as this thread is dedicated to the subject of testing the iOS version of WinPilot.

Regarding the iOS testing, thank you to all who replied, we still have a couple of spots left, so people interested in checking it out are welcome to send us a note. Unfortunately, the number of iOS testing devices we can have is limited, and the limit is set by Apple, so we cannot accommodate everybody. To be included, please send us the uuid number of your iPad/iPhone, and the country/state you are in.

Thank you for reading,
Winpilot team

[Tobias Bieniek]

> Both SYM and XCSoar claim to have this feature but it will not get any information from the computer. (It will "sort" of work if no computer is connected )

That is not quite correct actually. XCSoar will always take the data with the highest precision available. If you connect it to a vario it will use those values and if you only have a GPS connected it will try to calculate the missing values from it.

It is actually the same algorithm that makes it possible to connect multiple devices and merge their data to display it on the screen. (e.g. Flarm and Vario)

[6PK]

Herb Im confused here. I only see the PNA ADV version on the WinPilot website there is no PNA Pro version. Are you using the PDA Pro version on your Vertica ? Does it work? If so what are you using for password?
I tried asking the same from WinPilot direct; no response. 6PK

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:34:38 PM UTC-5, 6PK wrote:
> Herb Im confused here. I only see the PNA ADV version on the WinPilot website there is no PNA Pro version. Are you using the PDA Pro version on your Vertica ? Does it work? If so what are you using for password?
>
> I tried asking the same from WinPilot direct; no response. 6PK

6PK,
It's a non-published link:
www.winpilot.com/Files/WinPilot_PRO_PNA_1202.zip
and it still works. After getting the Avier from W&W last Christmas, I sent my $49 to Jerzy at WinPilot and got new PNA passwords, one for Advanced, one for Pro. However, the PNA does not do the wonderful TASK function anymore and changing zoom levels is more involved since the IPAQ buttons are no more. However, I flew with the PNA WinPilot Pro setup for the first time last Sat and got a good (for the Chicago area) 165mi flight in. The Avier is fantastic, I could not believe the difference in brightness vs. the horrible IPAQ.
Herb

[6PK]

Thanks Herb. Now this makes sense.
I will get with Jerry as to paying for the upgrade.
Regards.6PK

[tstock]

I dont think there is anything wrong with going IOS at all, there is zero risk of iPhone use dropping over the next 10 years, if anything it's increasing.

I would love to use my iPhone for navigation, (aside from the possibility of calls and text messages). I have been using LK8000 lately and it's fantastic, but of course no iPhone version so I am forced to use my clunky PNA which I can barely see in sunlight.

My iphone is so much smaller and brighter, it would be a joy to use... and it's always in my pocket so snapping it into a mount on my glider would just be as simple as it gets. So in my opinion you have a hole to fill if you want to continue to try to fill it.

[Sean F (F2)]

When will this new free version be available? Apple usually takes 1-2 weeks to approve an app from the time you submit the new version.

Is this the same WinPilot that is currently on the App Store for $50 per eastern or western US?

It's exciting to see the soaring manufacturers begin to write their software for iOS and Android. I think economically it will be better for all. Better software and likely more income for the development teams. It's a much bigger deal to buy hardware and software then just download an app. I would also suggest trial versions!

Thanks,

Sean

[Richard[_9_]]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:53:16 AM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> When will this new free version be available? Apple usually takes 1-2 weeks to approve an app from the time you submit the new version. Is this the same WinPilot that is currently on the App Store for $50 per eastern or western US? It's exciting to see the soaring manufacturers begin to write their software for iOS and Android. I think economically it will be better for all. Better software and likely more income for the development teams. It's a much bigger deal to buy hardware and software then just download an app. I would also suggest trial versions! Thanks, Sean

I think you will find that free is a very good price and so is $50.

What you may not understand is:

No support!
No support on connecting to devices!
Deaf ears when you want new features!

Richard

[WinPilot]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for your interest in the iOS version of WP.

The version that this thread was started about, and which people have been testing over the past couple of weeks, is different from the one currently in the App Store - it will be numbered 1.56.
At this point the testing has been successfully finished, and a couple of days ago the app has been submitted to Apple for review. Providing there are no surprises with the approval (which is always a real possibility with the Apple review team) it should be available in a few days - a free update for the existing users.

Thanks again to all who participated in testing and have submitted countless suggestions for new features, many of which have already been implemented, and more to come soon.

Given the recent progress with wireless transmitters of NMEA data suitable for in the cockpit use, we are also starting work on connecting to other devices, hopefully we will have an interesting announcement about it soon.

For those interested in the iOS version, the user's manual is at:
http://www.winpilot.com/ios/Manual_WinPilot_for_iOS.pdf

Even though the work on the current version has been completed, we definitely encourage people who have ANY (good or bad) ideas about new and useful features to send them in, unfortunately we cannot promise to implement each and every one of the ideas, but the ggod news is that at this point we are quite far away from reaching the full computational potential of the mini iPad or iPhone 5, so it is quite exciting to see all what's still possible.

BTW. On the subject of the PNA, as we had mentioned in our previous note, we were working on producing a version of WInPilot that supports one of the current PNAs, and now we have a PNA version for Avier on our web site, with a working TASK competition editor page. This version works on Avier and similar devices only - for example like the one sold by wingsandwheels.com, where we got our device from. The Oudie devices seem to be slightly different, and at this time are not supported, but if there is enough demand from the potential users, we can definitely consider producing a version for that device as well.

have a good day,
winpilot team

[[email protected]]

субота, 20. април 2013. 18.21.37 UTC+2, WinPilot је написао/ла:
> Hi all, Before we submit the new version of WinPilot for iOS to the AppStore, we would like to find the last few remaining bugs, and give the new features the final tweak.
>
>
>
> In exchange for trying the software and providing us with your feedback, the software will be yours to keep for free.
>
>
>
> Here is the list of features that are new in this version:
>
>
>
> - Final Glide calculation around all task waypoints
>
> - Custom Polar import
>
> - Ability to import Turnpoints, Airspace Files, Polars, IGC logs directly from an email message into your flight computer (no iTunes necessary)
>
> -In addidion to vector maps, now we also have ability to use tiled satellite and terrain (relief) maps. In fact, it is possible to have both the satellite map and relief map loaded at the same time, and switch between them with a touch of a button.
>
> -Added support for AAT turnpoint zones, as well as DAEC sectors and start and finish lines, in addition to 90 FAI and cylinder zones.
>
> - Added IGC log viewer superimposed on a Satellite/Terrain map that opens directly from an email message
>
>
>
>
>
> If you would like to give try it on your iPad / iPhone, you will need to send us the identifier of your device, and we will reply with a link to the software and a User’s Manual. Here is how to get the 40 digit uuid:
>
> 1. Launch iTunes.
>
> 2. Connect your iOS device to your computer.
>
> 3. Select the device in the Devices list.
>
> 4. In the Summary pane, click the Serial Number label. It changes 
to uuid Identifier.
>
> 5. Choose Edit > Copy.
>
> 6. Email your device identifier to
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Winpilot team

USB\VID_05AC&PID_12AB\0C0A63FDAFE3A97BF9E922C2A56E5FAE82FB1186

[Aleksandar Diklich]

субота, 20. април 2013. 18.21.37 UTC+2, WinPilot је написао/ла:
> Hi all, Before we submit the new version of WinPilot for iOS to the AppStore, we would like to find the last few remaining bugs, and give the new features the final tweak.
>
>
>
> In exchange for trying the software and providing us with your feedback, the software will be yours to keep for free.
>
>
>
> Here is the list of features that are new in this version:
>
>
>
> - Final Glide calculation around all task waypoints
>
> - Custom Polar import
>
> - Ability to import Turnpoints, Airspace Files, Polars, IGC logs directly from an email message into your flight computer (no iTunes necessary)
>
> -In addidion to vector maps, now we also have ability to use tiled satellite and terrain (relief) maps. In fact, it is possible to have both the satellite map and relief map loaded at the same time, and switch between them with a touch of a button.
>
> -Added support for AAT turnpoint zones, as well as DAEC sectors and start and finish lines, in addition to 90 FAI and cylinder zones.
>
> - Added IGC log viewer superimposed on a Satellite/Terrain map that opens directly from an email message
>
>
>
>
>
> If you would like to give try it on your iPad / iPhone, you will need to send us the identifier of your device, and we will reply with a link to the software and a User’s Manual. Here is how to get the 40 digit uuid:
>
> 1. Launch iTunes.
>
> 2. Connect your iOS device to your computer.
>
> 3. Select the device in the Devices list.
>
> 4. In the Summary pane, click the Serial Number label. It changes 
to uuid Identifier.
>
> 5. Choose Edit > Copy.
>
> 6. Email your device identifier to
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Winpilot team

USB\VID_05AC&PID_12AB\0C0A63FDAFE3A97BF9E922C2A56E5FAE82FB1186

[[email protected]]

Please support the Oudie.

[Dan Marotta]

Some day I may buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE software
kinda beats the snot out of it.


> wrote in message
...
> Please support the Oudie.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:52:24 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

> Some day I may buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE
> software kinda beats the snot out of it.
>
IIRC the Oudie runs under Windows Mobile 6: the Vertica V2 and
GliderGuider certainly do, as does the Mio S3747, which uses a
transreflective display.

Since M$ has discontinued all support for WM 5 and 6, almost every PNA
using it has vanished from the market as the last units in the last
production batch been sold. AFAICT there are none available in the UK
except on eBay and similar sites. They are still advertised in some
places, but these ads are all marked 'out of stock' with no indication of
when new stock might appear. Some sites let you ask to be notified if/
when it does.

The Binatone series of satnavs are no longer even mentioned on the
Binatone website. I suspect the same applies to other makes as well. IOW,
any WM 5/6 device and the software that runs on it is now in the zombie
zone.

As nobody has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8
equivalents of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have
priced their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of
or seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen
the end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation
systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets.

Consequently, sooner or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will
no longer be supported on devices running WM 6. XCSoar already runs under
Android and I hear that an Android version of LK8000 will be out next
year. SYM? I don't know what they're doing. Can anybody enlighten us?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Richard[_9_]]

On Monday, December 9, 2013 2:39:33 PM UTC-8, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:52:24 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote: > Some day I may buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE > software kinda beats the snot out of it. > IIRC the Oudie runs under Windows Mobile 6: the Vertica V2 and GliderGuider certainly do, as does the Mio S3747, which uses a transreflective display. Since M$ has discontinued all support for WM 5 and 6, almost every PNA using it has vanished from the market as the last units in the last production batch been sold. AFAICT there are none available in the UK except on eBay and similar sites. They are still advertised in some places, but these ads are all marked 'out of stock' with no indication of when new stock might appear. Some sites let you ask to be notified if/ when it does. The Binatone series of satnavs are no longer even mentioned on the Binatone website. I suspect the same applies to other makes as well. IOW, any WM 5/6 device and the software that runs on it is now in the zombie zone. As nobody has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8 equivalents of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have priced their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of or seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen the end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets. Consequently, sooner or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will no longer be supported on devices running WM 6. XCSoar already runs under Android and I hear that an Android version of LK8000 will be out next year. SYM? I don't know what they're doing. Can anybody enlighten us? -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |

Martin,

I may be wrong but I think the PNAs run windows CE 5, CE 6 or CE 7 not the mobile operating system.

My Ultimate Le uses CE 6.0 or CE 7.0. They are supported and run SeeYou PNA.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[waremark]

According to the LK8000 forum they are working on a Linux version, but not for the moment an Android version. Naviter have said that they are working on an Android version of SYM but without any indication of their timetable. I imagine that they have been concentrating instead on Oudie 3 and Oudie IGC and are more interested in selling hardware than software which has to compete with the free rivals. The various Oudie models are a superb solution at the moment - the bright 5 inch screen they share with the Avier/V2/GliderGuider family makes such a difference and I am not aware of any new Android device which has an equally good screen. IMO if you need to buy now these are the best devices. In another year who knows?

Butterfly and Winpilot are both opting for iOS. I think the iPhone is too small and the iPad mini too big for most glider cockpits - and I don't think they are as bright as the Oudie's et al.

The dedicated devices (LX9000 and Zeus) mostly seem to run on Linux. What about the Clearnav?

[[email protected]]

On Monday, December 9, 2013 10:39:33 PM UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
> As nobody has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8
> equivalents of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have
> priced their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of
> or seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen
> the end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation
> systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets.
>

As Richard mentions, the low-end satnavs usually run 'Core' (bare-bones) Windows CE 6, which has been around since 2006. I think CE6 licenses are still available, and I suspect the diminishing number of standalone GPS navigators is due to the state of the market rather than software availability. I don't know how dependent soaring-specific Windows CE hardware is on the availability of new mainstream GPS devices.

>
> Consequently, sooner or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will
> no longer be supported on devices running WM 6.

As far as 'sooner' goes, it's relatively straightforward to maintain the version of XCSoar for Windows CE at the moment, so there should be no pressing need to discontinue support for existing Windows CE devices even if new hardware becomes unavailable.

(XCSoar uses the same codebase for all supported devices. This means the majority of changes don't have to be duplicated for each different type of hardware, eg. Android, various Linux devices, Windows CE.)

I don't think any of the active XCSoar developers use Windows CE devices other than for basic testing though, so it will remain important that people report bugs as soon as possible via http://bugs.xcsoar.org/newticket - it's likely that even apparently obvious bugs will be missed otherwise.

Long term, it's my understanding that the most recent version of CE (Windows Embedded Compact 2013) breaks binary compatibility with earlier versions, meaning existing compilers won't generate program files that will work on CE2013. If the take up of CE2013 is anything like as weak as CE7, it may be irrelevant.

[Dan Marotta]

Per their site (XCSoar.org), XCSoar also runs on MacOS. I use a Dell Streak
5 and am extremely pleased with it. They're available in quantity on eBay,
etc. New ones are very expensive, used ones are dirt cheap.


"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:52:24 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
>> Some day I may buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE
>> software kinda beats the snot out of it.
>>
> IIRC the Oudie runs under Windows Mobile 6: the Vertica V2 and
> GliderGuider certainly do, as does the Mio S3747, which uses a
> transreflective display.
>
> Since M$ has discontinued all support for WM 5 and 6, almost every PNA
> using it has vanished from the market as the last units in the last
> production batch been sold. AFAICT there are none available in the UK
> except on eBay and similar sites. They are still advertised in some
> places, but these ads are all marked 'out of stock' with no indication of
> when new stock might appear. Some sites let you ask to be notified if/
> when it does.
>
> The Binatone series of satnavs are no longer even mentioned on the
> Binatone website. I suspect the same applies to other makes as well. IOW,
> any WM 5/6 device and the software that runs on it is now in the zombie
> zone.
>
> As nobody has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8
> equivalents of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have
> priced their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of
> or seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen
> the end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation
> systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets.
>
> Consequently, sooner or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will
> no longer be supported on devices running WM 6. XCSoar already runs under
> Android and I hear that an Android version of LK8000 will be out next
> year. SYM? I don't know what they're doing. Can anybody enlighten us?
>
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |

[WinPilot]

Thanks to all who sent in their iPad's or iPhone's serial numbers in the past couple of days in response to the resurrection of this thread.
At this point the the WinPilot for iOS app is available in App Store for the whooping $49:
For Europe:
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=539701244&mt=8
For the USA:
https://itunes.apple.com/app/winpilot-for-ipad-2012-western/id540473050?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=643348142&mt=8

However, we might still be able to offer a couple (Apple limits the number of testing devices) of free versions to people who are in position to fly in the next couple of days/weeks, and are able to exercise some of the more recent WP features, like connecting to existing hardware using the connection module:
http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/butterfly/index.php/en/products/butterfly-apps-en/butterfly-connect-interface-for-apps
or to people flying with the Butterfly vario, to which WinPilot connects natively.

Thanks for reading,

Jerry

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 15:38:08 -0800, Richard wrote:

> On Monday, December 9, 2013 2:39:33 PM UTC-8, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:52:24 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote: > Some day I may
>> buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE > software kinda
>> beats the snot out of it. > IIRC the Oudie runs under Windows Mobile 6:
>> the Vertica V2 and GliderGuider certainly do, as does the Mio S3747,
>> which uses a transreflective display. Since M$ has discontinued all
>> support for WM 5 and 6, almost every PNA using it has vanished from the
>> market as the last units in the last production batch been sold. AFAICT
>> there are none available in the UK except on eBay and similar sites.
>> They are still advertised in some places, but these ads are all marked
>> 'out of stock' with no indication of when new stock might appear. Some
>> sites let you ask to be notified if/ when it does. The Binatone series
>> of satnavs are no longer even mentioned on the Binatone website. I
>> suspect the same applies to other makes as well. IOW, any WM 5/6 device
>> and the software that runs on it is now in the zombie zone. As nobody
>> has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8 equivalents
>> of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have priced
>> their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of or
>> seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen the
>> end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation
>> systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets. Consequently, sooner
>> or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will no longer be
>> supported on devices running WM 6. XCSoar already runs under Android
>> and I hear that an Android version of LK8000 will be out next year.
>> SYM? I don't know what they're doing. Can anybody enlighten us? --
>> martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |
>
> Martin,
>
> I may be wrong but I think the PNAs run windows CE 5, CE 6 or CE 7 not
> the mobile operating system.
>
Quite possible: But my main point remains: all the PNAs using these small
Windows OSen, be they WM or CE, all new stock seems to have vanished from
retail outlets in the UK and anywhere else that my UK-based browser was
bringing up: Binatone, Navigon, Mio - simply not around apart from small
numbers of new Mio in Germany ans some used or refurbished items on Ebay.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 16:29:06 -0800, waremark wrote:

> According to the LK8000 forum they are working on a Linux version,
>
Yes, I know that and would be more than happy to run LK8000 on a
RaspberryPi provided I can find a suitable display. As a Libelle driver I
have quite heavily restricted panel space: a 4.3" display is just
possible, but a 5" display isn't and I've not seen a freestanding touch
screen that I could connect to an RPi in those sizes. Do you know of
anything like that or, better, something of similar size that runs Linux?



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 10:01:57 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

> Per their site (XCSoar.org), XCSoar also runs on MacOS. I use a Dell
> Streak 5 and am extremely pleased with it. They're available in
> quantity on eBay, etc. New ones are very expensive, used ones are dirt
> cheap.
>
Unfortunately I can't find space on my panel for a 5" device or I'd have
snapped up a GliderGuider as soon as they appeared.

However, I have the problem solved another way for the short/medium term
as there's a 3.5" Mio with transreflective display heading my way as we
speak.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 05:52:13 -0800, simon.taylor.uk wrote:

> Long term, it's my understanding that the most recent version of CE
> (Windows Embedded Compact 2013) breaks binary compatibility with earlier
> versions, meaning existing compilers won't generate program files that
> will work on CE2013. If the take up of CE2013 is anything like as weak
> as CE7, it may be irrelevant.
>
Exactly so, and I remember seeing a piece in The Register that M$ were
dropping support for all earlier releases at that point. Last week I
decided I needed either a Binatone R430 or the smaller transreflective
Mio: the near total absence of any suitable in-stock hardware (new or
used) outside of eBay shops came as a huge surprise: thats what triggered
me to start this thread.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:10:49 PM UTC-5, WinPilot wrote:
> Thanks to all who sent in their iPad's or iPhone's serial numbers in the past couple of days in response to the resurrection of this thread.
>
> At this point the the WinPilot for iOS app is available in App Store for the whooping $49:
>
> For Europe:
>
> https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=539701244&mt=8
>
> For the USA:
>
> https://itunes.apple.com/app/winpilot-for-ipad-2012-western/id540473050?mt=8
>
> https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=643348142&mt=8
>
>
>
> However, we might still be able to offer a couple (Apple limits the number of testing devices) of free versions to people who are in position to fly in the next couple of days/weeks, and are able to exercise some of the more recent WP features, like connecting to existing hardware using the connection module:
>
> http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/butterfly/index.php/en/products/butterfly-apps-en/butterfly-connect-interface-for-apps
>
> or to people flying with the Butterfly vario, to which WinPilot connects natively.
>
>
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
>
>
> Jerry
>
>

One point I totally dislike about the iPhone offering is that there is no ability to play with the solution for a few days before one needs to buy the software for good.

The other issue in particular about WinPilot is that you need to buy a different install for different region. I bought iGlide instead of WinPilot to play with for this exact reason.

[WinPilot]

> One point I totally dislike about the iPhone offering is that there is no ability to play with the solution >for a few days before one needs to buy the software for good.
> The other issue in particular about WinPilot is that you need to buy a different install for different >region. I bought iGlide instead of WinPilot to play with for this exact reason.



There is a limited mechanism that Apple offers for checking any software out in a form of an electronic coupon that expires 30 days after first use. It is not a very easy thing to use, but if you want, we can send one to you.

Regarding the regions, there are four builds of WP for iOS that come preloaded with vector maps and aviation databases for: Europe, Western USA, Eastern USA, and Other Countries (like Namibia, Australia, South Africa, etc). This has been done so that when you buy and download the app, there is no need to download anything else, it will just work right away, as all the vector maps and aviation databases are included in the app itself. This also keeps the size of the app relatively small, so it is possible to download it while at the airport getting ready for launch, even when only the cellular connection is available.
You have an option of downloading tile maps and your own turn point/airspace files, and then any of the builds will work in any place you want.

Jerry