Werker SLA batteries? (... better than PowerSonic?) [Archive]

RAS56

April 30th 13, 02:37 AM

I have been running my SLA batteries through John DeRosa's test "rig" found here:

http://aviation.derosaweb.net/

This is the second year I've tested them, and the batteries have been in service since March 2011.

I have two 12v/7.5ah batteries I purchased from Academy Sporting Goods (chain store) here in Austin, Texas for ~$20 each. They are primarily sold for deer feeders, electric fences, etc. They are sold under the trade name "Wildgame Innovations" and are listed as Model #12vb.

When I ran Battery #1 through John's testing protocol, I got 5 hours 35 minutes till it dropped from full charge to 11.5v. It lasted another 1:37 till it dropped to 10v, at which time I terminated the test.

Battery #2 is currently on the test rig, and has just hit 11.5v at 5:30 into the test protocol. I expect it will last to 10v the same as the first.

I do have a Werker 12v/2.9ah backup battery...config on my glider is such that it's easier to mount 1 big battery/1 small one vs 2 big ones...so I use the main all day and the 2.9ah to go into a "limp home" status if I ever need it (haven't yet).

The Werker is right at 1 year old...and it appears to be fading fast. One would think it would have ~39% of the bigger battery's life (2.9/7.5) or something near 2 hours 10 minutes, but in my testing, it dropped to 11.5v in only 55 minutes.

Wish the sporting goods guys would stock the smaller batteries in something other than 6v sizes...but they don't.

Hope some of that helped..

Rob S.
ASW-19b
ZAP

Darryl Ramm

April 30th 13, 03:40 AM

On Monday, April 29, 2013 6:10:04 PM UTC-7, 2NO wrote:
> I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
>
>
>
> Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
>
>
>
> The salesman at Batteries Plus said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

Mmm the unbiased opinion of a sales droid....

My first thing to do with battery problems like this is to look at your charging setup/method. What exact model/capacity batteries, what exact chargers, batteries charged in parallel?, how long are the batteries left on charge? redundant electronic bits and pieces in the charger circuit, etc. charger settings (if any), ambient temps, etc. How deeply are the batteries typically discharged? How long are they left discharged? Have you taken them out of the glider, fully charged them (typically for a few days) on a known good SLA charger and then done a discharge test. Do that at each annual and track how the batteries age.

PowerSonic tend to be high quality, as do Panasonic, and other brand name batteries. But every manufacturer will have duds.

Darryl

Papa3[_2_]

April 30th 13, 03:44 AM

On Monday, April 29, 2013 9:37:57 PM UTC-4, RAS56 wrote:
> I have been running my SLA batteries through John DeRosa's test "rig" found here:
>
>
>
> http://aviation.derosaweb.net/
>
>
>
> This is the second year I've tested them, and the batteries have been in service since March 2011.
>
>
>
> I have two 12v/7.5ah batteries I purchased from Academy Sporting Goods (chain store) here in Austin, Texas for ~$20 each. They are primarily sold for deer feeders, electric fences, etc. They are sold under the trade name "Wildgame Innovations" and are listed as Model #12vb.
>
>
>
> When I ran Battery #1 through John's testing protocol, I got 5 hours 35 minutes till it dropped from full charge to 11.5v. It lasted another 1:37 till it dropped to 10v, at which time I terminated the test.
>
>
>
> Battery #2 is currently on the test rig, and has just hit 11.5v at 5:30 into the test protocol. I expect it will last to 10v the same as the first.
>
>
>
> I do have a Werker 12v/2.9ah backup battery...config on my glider is such that it's easier to mount 1 big battery/1 small one vs 2 big ones...so I use the main all day and the 2.9ah to go into a "limp home" status if I ever need it (haven't yet).
>
>
>
> The Werker is right at 1 year old...and it appears to be fading fast. One would think it would have ~39% of the bigger battery's life (2.9/7.5) or something near 2 hours 10 minutes, but in my testing, it dropped to 11.5v in only 55 minutes.
>
>
>
> Wish the sporting goods guys would stock the smaller batteries in something other than 6v sizes...but they don't.
>
>
>
> Hope some of that helped..
>
>
>
> Rob S.
>
> ASW-19b
>
> ZAP

I switched to Werker about 5 years back and had 2 (12v/12ah) that lasted several years. When they faded, I bought 2 more, and neither of them went the season. Bought 2 more, and they also crapped out quickly. Same charging gear. Carefully monitored. Careful discharge test.

I switched to the LIFEPo4 chemistry last year. So far, so good....

Darryl Ramm

April 30th 13, 03:53 AM

On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:44:05 PM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
> On Monday, April 29, 2013 9:37:57 PM UTC-4, RAS56 wrote:
>
> > I have been running my SLA batteries through John DeRosa's test "rig" found here:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://aviation.derosaweb.net/
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > This is the second year I've tested them, and the batteries have been in service since March 2011.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have two 12v/7.5ah batteries I purchased from Academy Sporting Goods (chain store) here in Austin, Texas for ~$20 each. They are primarily sold for deer feeders, electric fences, etc. They are sold under the trade name "Wildgame Innovations" and are listed as Model #12vb.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > When I ran Battery #1 through John's testing protocol, I got 5 hours 35 minutes till it dropped from full charge to 11.5v. It lasted another 1:37 till it dropped to 10v, at which time I terminated the test.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Battery #2 is currently on the test rig, and has just hit 11.5v at 5:30 into the test protocol. I expect it will last to 10v the same as the first..
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I do have a Werker 12v/2.9ah backup battery...config on my glider is such that it's easier to mount 1 big battery/1 small one vs 2 big ones...so I use the main all day and the 2.9ah to go into a "limp home" status if I ever need it (haven't yet).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The Werker is right at 1 year old...and it appears to be fading fast. One would think it would have ~39% of the bigger battery's life (2.9/7.5) or something near 2 hours 10 minutes, but in my testing, it dropped to 11.5v in only 55 minutes.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Wish the sporting goods guys would stock the smaller batteries in something other than 6v sizes...but they don't.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hope some of that helped..
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Rob S.
>
> >
>
> > ASW-19b
>
> >
>
> > ZAP
>
>
>
> I switched to Werker about 5 years back and had 2 (12v/12ah) that lasted several years. When they faded, I bought 2 more, and neither of them went the season. Bought 2 more, and they also crapped out quickly. Same charging gear. Carefully monitored. Careful discharge test.
>
>
>
> I switched to the LIFEPo4 chemistry last year. So far, so good....

Werker are just a Batteries Plus house brand made by several different manufactures, it may well be pointless to discuss their generic quality or experience of one model vs. another that could be made at a different factory by a different company on different sides of the world.

Personally I would go with PowerSonic or Panasonic SLA batteries if using SLA. But I suspect more batteries are killed than just die. So its all about how they are used, stored and charged.

Darryl

mike

April 30th 13, 04:00 AM

On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:10:04 PM UTC-6, 2NO wrote:
> I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
>
>
>
> Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
>
>
>
> The salesman at Batteries Plus who said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

Batteries Plus labels Werker Batteries, and have claimed that Werker batteries are made in same factory as Power Sonic, putting them on equal footing. I doubt that there is much of a quality control problem from one brand to the other. On my third year with one Werker battery and on the second with the other. Had one with problems just after one year, but BP honored the warranty anyway. They seem ok to me.

Darryl Ramm

April 30th 13, 04:13 AM

On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:00:59 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:
> On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:10:04 PM UTC-6, 2NO wrote:
>
> > I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The salesman at Batteries Plus who said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...
>
>
>
> Batteries Plus labels Werker Batteries, and have claimed that Werker batteries are made in same factory as Power Sonic, putting them on equal footing. I doubt that there is much of a quality control problem from one brand to the other. On my third year with one Werker battery and on the second with the other. Had one with problems just after one year, but BP honored the warranty anyway. They seem ok to me.

I am pretty sure that Werker are relabeled Exide and others vendors, I'm not sure if that includes PowerSonic, it may. But they definitively relabel batteries from multiple vendors, for what that's worth, and it may not be much. If they have good warranties that's a great point to catch the unavoidable failures that every vendor will have.

My reaction however to "my brand name battery is not reliable or repeatedly dies early" should I switch to Werker, is no--the brand of the battery is probalby not the issue.

Darryl

[email protected]

April 30th 13, 10:57 AM

To add to Darryl's comments:
SLA batteries are pretty basic in construction.
Not many differentiating factors in the production process of different manufacturers.
Most SLA batteries do not "crap out".
They are destroyed.
Particularly by the glider use case.
There are 3 factors by which you accelerate the rate of destruction of a SLA battery:
- Deep discharge.
- Over charge.
- Store in discharged condition.

Deep Discharge:
If you have multiple batteries on board and you belong to the subscribers of the "spare battery" concept, ie. deep discharge one battery to spare the other battery, you are destroying your battery faster.
If you have 2 batteries on board, it is best to discharge both simultaneously and not go below 50% discharge.
If you have 3 batteries on board, it is best to discharge all 3 simultaneously and not go below 66% of capacity.

Over charge:
If you use a bad charger, you accelerate the destruction of your SLA battery.
Most damaging is the charging beyond full.
If you want to leave your batteries connected to your charger, you need a charger that properly detects the full stage and terminates the charging process.
Even poorly implemented "trickle" charge is highly damaging to the battery.
Charge every battery on a separate charger.
Don't fast charge your batteries. A Battery Tender Jr. with 0.7A charge current for a 7Ah battery (0.1C) works fine.

Storing discharged batteries:
Charge your batteries immediately after use.
If you leave them discharged and only charge them the evening before your next flight, you accelerate the destruction of your SLA battery.

The effects of quality differences between different brands are smaller than the effects of above mentioned abuses.

If you are using "High Capacity" batteries, e.g. the 9Ah types in a 7Ah footprint, keep in mind that these high capacity batteries are even more susceptible to the above abuses, as they have a more delicate internal structure to cram in the additional capacity.

If you treat your batteries well, even mid-grade batteries should last for many seasons.
My PowerSonics are going into the 6th season with about 75% capacity left.

Final comment about fluctuations in capacity/quality:
I measure battery capacities of our club batteries. I found PowerSonic 9Ah batteries with 115% of rated capacity after 1 season of use and 60% of rated capacity after 1 season of use.
I attributed the 40% loss of capacity in 1 season to a poor charger.

Jim[_31_]

April 30th 13, 12:16 PM

On Monday, April 29, 2013 11:13:52 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:00:59 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:
>
> > On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:10:04 PM UTC-6, 2NO wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The salesman at Batteries Plus who said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Batteries Plus labels Werker Batteries, and have claimed that Werker batteries are made in same factory as Power Sonic, putting them on equal footing. I doubt that there is much of a quality control problem from one brand to the other. On my third year with one Werker battery and on the second with the other. Had one with problems just after one year, but BP honored the warranty anyway. They seem ok to me.
>
>
>
> I am pretty sure that Werker are relabeled Exide and others vendors, I'm not sure if that includes PowerSonic, it may. But they definitively relabel batteries from multiple vendors, for what that's worth, and it may not be much. If they have good warranties that's a great point to catch the unavoidable failures that every vendor will have.
>
>
>
> My reaction however to "my brand name battery is not reliable or repeatedly dies early" should I switch to Werker, is no--the brand of the battery is probalby not the issue.
>
>
>
> Darryl

Well said Darryl. I was in the battery testing industry for several years during my career and I agree 100% with everything you just said about batteries.

-Jim

April 30th 13, 12:25 PM

On Apr 29, 7:10*pm, 2NO > wrote:
> I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
>
> Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
>
> The salesman at Batteries Plus said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

I had Werker batteries from Plus in my DG 400 which needs 4 6v
batteries. I never had any issues. They lasted about 4 years. I
replaced them with 4 more Werkers. They seemed fine after a few years
then sold the glider. Got Werkers is the new glider.

Wheaton

April 30th 13, 02:42 PM

I am back to power sonic. Tried the Batteries Plus because of timing. First battery lasted less than a year before failure. They were great help etc. but the replacement battery failed again in the same timeframe. The previous battery was a Power Sonic I got with the glider. It was on the order of 7 years when it rapidly failed. One other note on Batteries Plus, the replacement battery doesnot get it's full one year warranty. The replacement battery only has a warranty of what's left of the original.

Still wondering if the charger is part of the issue, even though I was using the same charger on the old PS for several year.

Batteries Plus service and testing of the batteries was excellent. I just couldn't get them to work very long. Battery issues cause great uncertainty when flying way out from home.

Doug Mueller

April 30th 13, 03:17 PM

Not all Batteries are the same as well as not all chargers are the same.
The chargers have different charging tables. Some of the higher end smart
chargers detect the type of battery it is and can charge appropriately but
there is not one charger that can do it all. Sorry. Your life expectancy of
a battery will go up drastically when you use a compatible charger with
your new battery. Talking to battery experts is very helpful here. A pefect
example is the pardigm shift to Litho Batteries for capacity reasons from
NiMh.
If you have an old charger, they will not charge Litho batteries well.
Dependant on the charger you can get a variable outcome. I have seen
everything from Litho batteries catching fire on an airplane to just
charging a battery to 50% capacity. If you are going to update your
batteries to the greatest capacity, spend the money and buy a compatible
charger. Regards, Doug

P.S. a Litho battery fire is extremely difficult to contain. Never leave
these batteries charging unattended. Don't believe me, goggle search it!

Mike C

April 30th 13, 03:49 PM

Just to be clear.

PowerSonic batteries are made in China, Taiwan and Viet Naam. Saying that Werker batteries are made in the same factory as PowerSonic batteries is not he same as saying that they are relabled PowerSonic batteries. It is a sub contractors industry, where corporations spec, pay for and label their production runs. I doubt that PowerSonic owns factories in China, Taiwan and Viet Naam.

On Monday, April 29, 2013 9:13:52 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:00:59 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:
>
> > On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:10:04 PM UTC-6, 2NO wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The salesman at Batteries Plus who said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Batteries Plus labels Werker Batteries, and have claimed that Werker batteries are made in same factory as Power Sonic, putting them on equal footing. I doubt that there is much of a quality control problem from one brand to the other. On my third year with one Werker battery and on the second with the other. Had one with problems just after one year, but BP honored the warranty anyway. They seem ok to me.
>
>
>
> I am pretty sure that Werker are relabeled Exide and others vendors, I'm not sure if that includes PowerSonic, it may. But they definitively relabel batteries from multiple vendors, for what that's worth, and it may not be much. If they have good warranties that's a great point to catch the unavoidable failures that every vendor will have.
>
>
>
> My reaction however to "my brand name battery is not reliable or repeatedly dies early" should I switch to Werker, is no--the brand of the battery is probalby not the issue.
>
>
>
> Darryl

[email protected]

April 30th 13, 07:29 PM

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:17:57 AM UTC-5, Doug Mueller wrote:
> Not all Batteries are the same as well as not all chargers are the same.
>
> The chargers have different charging tables. Some of the higher end smart
>
> chargers detect the type of battery it is and can charge appropriately but
>
> there is not one charger that can do it all. Sorry. Your life expectancy of
>
> a battery will go up drastically when you use a compatible charger with
>
> your new battery. Talking to battery experts is very helpful here. A pefect
>
> example is the pardigm shift to Litho Batteries for capacity reasons from
>
> NiMh.
>
> If you have an old charger, they will not charge Litho batteries well.
>
> Dependant on the charger you can get a variable outcome. I have seen
>
> everything from Litho batteries catching fire on an airplane to just
>
> charging a battery to 50% capacity. If you are going to update your
>
> batteries to the greatest capacity, spend the money and buy a compatible
>
> charger. Regards, Doug
>
>
>
> P.S. a Litho battery fire is extremely difficult to contain. Never leave
>
> these batteries charging unattended. Don't believe me, goggle search it!

Doug,
What in the world is a Litho battery? Do you mean LiPo? By the way, do you watch your laptop when the (LiPo) battery is on charge? We need to be careful with all the old-wifes tales that are repeated here, the devil is in the details.
Just for experimental purposes, I once put a nail through one of my 2200 AH 3p Lipos and you are right, the fire starts pretty much immediately and is next to impossible to quench. That does not mean they will burst into flames any second.

April 30th 13, 07:37 PM

PowerSonic was a reliable battery before their manufacturing was outsourced. Now all bets are off. Is Yuasa any better?
At work we use a lot of AA and 9V alkaline batteries. The old reliable brands (ie Duracell) cannot be trusted like they used to be. Now we're switching to rechargeable Lithium packs.
I had some ancient 7A/H PowerSonics that just kept going. One had been left with a load for 11 months, which as you imagine metered zero volts. It was charged and found capable of running a modest instrument panel for three to four hours. More recently acquired PowerSonic batteries were disappointing.
The new Tenergy LiFePO4 batteries are also made in questionable places, but are - so far - working far better than any SLA I've used. Had a problem with the controller (panel power-up would trigger protection) on a 14A/H pack but the company refunded it right away. Now using three Tenergy 12V 10A/H. Primary two in parallel and a separate one.
Jim

Tom Gardner[_2_]

April 30th 13, 08:23 PM

wrote:
> We need to be careful with all the old-wifes tales that are repeated here, the devil is in the details.

Quite right. But we also need to be careful with panglossian optimism.

There are many videos on youtube showing what happens when a battery is grossly mistreated.
The results are somewhat spectacular. But so what, we wouldn't fly with batteries that had
been grossly mistreated, would we?

More interestingly, a very quick search indicated[1] Dell had to recall laptop batteries
3 times in 5 years; the last involved 4,000,000 batteries. If we assume that Dell isn't
staffed by cretins, clearly there are some subtle effects that can cause significant
problems.

> Just for experimental purposes, I once put a nail through one of my 2200 AH 3p Lipos and you are right, the fire starts pretty much immediately and is next to impossible to quench. That does not mean they will burst into flames any second.

Just for fun:
- an M67 grenade has a charge of 180g, which probably equates
to around 180000J of energy
- 12V battery discharged at 4A for 1hour releases 172000J of energy

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNSzs679Sw
bog-standard TV news report, so usual caveats apply

[email protected]

April 30th 13, 11:18 PM

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:23:31 PM UTC-5, Tom Gardner wrote:

>
>
> Quite right. But we also need to be careful with panglossian optimism.
>
>
>
> There are many videos on youtube showing what happens when a battery is grossly mistreated.
>
>
>
> More interestingly, a very quick search indicated[1] Dell had to recall laptop batteries
>
> 3 times in 5 years; the last involved 4,000,000 batteries. If we assume that Dell isn't
>
> staffed by cretins, clearly there are some subtle effects that can cause significant
>
> problems.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Tom, I'm getting a bit tired of your tirades on not trying anything that doesn't go back to your college days and is "well proven". Your answer to all questions seems to be "it depends" and that is also an adult diaper brand here in the US. If you want to base your decisions on YouTube videos, I have news for you: many of them are staged or directed by morons. Sorry to get personal but please stop giving us your trivial opinions. Btw. you're mixing up your chemistry in your last post: Laptop batteries are Lipos, we are talking Life batteries here.

[email protected]

May 1st 13, 12:16 AM

my2c, laptop batteries are generally all labeled Lithium Ion which encompasses all types of batteries with a Lithium electrolyte regardless of how the electrolyte is contained.

Doug Mueller

May 1st 13, 03:21 PM

>Doug,
>What in the world is a Litho battery? Do you mean LiPo? By the way, do
>you watch your laptop when the (LiPo) battery is on charge? We need to
be
>careful with all the old-wifes tales that are repeated here, the devil is
>in the details.
>Just for experimental purposes, I once put a nail through one of my 2200
AH
>3p Lipos and you are right, the fire starts pretty much immediately and
is
>next to impossible to quench. That does not mean they will burst into
>flames any second.
>
My apologies for the use of slang. Litho is a slang word for a LiPo
battery. This unfortunately is not an old wives tale as you infer. There is
truth in my comments made. No I do not watch my laptop being charged but I
do monitor charging of my larger glider batteries with a thermo sensor.
Litho batteries are sensitive to a number of conditions during the charging
cycle.
The public at large had to go through the same rechargable battery learning
curve when the Nickel Cadmium battery back in the 60's.
Common charging errors were: 1. Over Charging 2. Thermal Runaway 3. Not
100% charged which caused a memory in the battery thereby reducing its
useful life.
Todays smart chargers aid in charging rechargable batteries. They protect
from Over charge states, thermal runaway, and undercharge.
The only problem is that to have a smart charger that charged all types of
rechargeables would be large and awkward to have around. Each battery has
a unique charging table. Some like high current charges in the beginning
and some like suttle ramp up profiles. This is way more info then this
thread was intended. I wanted to put out to the glider community that
charging new style batteries with old style chargers will cause you more
grief to useful life,more so then the name on the battery!

Tom Gardner[_2_]

May 1st 13, 09:42 PM

wrote:

> Tom, I'm getting a bit tired of your tirades on not trying anything
> that doesn't go back to your college days and is "well proven".
> Your answer to all questions seems to be "it depends" and that is
> also an adult diaper brand here in the US. If you want to base your
> decisions on YouTube videos, I have news for you: many of them
> are staged or directed by morons. Sorry to get personal but
> please stop giving us your trivial opinions. Btw. you're mixing
> up your chemistry in your last post: Laptop batteries are Lipos,
> we are talking Life batteries here.

Wow, I'm sorry I seem to have touched a nerve.

Your posting contains:
- some ad-hominem attacks
- one informational statement
- a focus on presentation media and style, rather than
the information in the presentations
- several inaccurate and contentious statements that are
only possible because you have too heavily snipped
sections of my posting
- and a "that's the pot calling the kettle black" statement

Can I suggest that you put me in your killfile.

[email protected]

May 10th 13, 08:11 PM

On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:10:04 PM UTC-5, 2NO wrote:
> I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
>
>
>
> Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
>
>
>
> The salesman at Batteries Plus said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

[email protected]

May 10th 13, 08:12 PM

[email protected]

May 12th 16, 08:20 PM

On Monday, April 29, 2013 at 9:10:04 PM UTC-4, 2NO wrote:
> I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
>
> Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
>
> The salesman at Batteries Plus said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

PowerSonic batteries are made in China and they do indeed SUCK. I will no longer use them in medical devices. I use Werker batteries and they last far longer and work much better. As the name implies they must be made in Germany and just like a VW, run forever.

6PK

May 13th 16, 02:22 AM

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 12:20:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, April 29, 2013 at 9:10:04 PM UTC-4, 2NO wrote:
> > I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.
> >
> > Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?
> >
> > The salesman at Batteries Plus said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...
>
> PowerSonic batteries are made in China and they do indeed SUCK. I will no longer use them in medical devices. I use Werker batteries and they last far longer and work much better. As the name implies they must be made in Germany and just like a VW, run forever.

The best but equally expensive are the Sonnenschein dryfit batteries, made in Germany, par non. I ran 14v 10 ah for many years, and have a pair back from 2005 that I will still occasionally put on charge and do an hour or so locally. Of course for longer flights I will use newer ones (and also some LiPo ones, equally reliable). Sonnenschein dryfit NEVER failed me. These are also hard to get but obtainable. If need be, I can post a source.

bumper[_4_]

May 13th 16, 09:23 AM

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 12:20:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:

> PowerSonic batteries are made in China and they do indeed SUCK. I will no longer use them in medical devices. I use Werker batteries and they last far longer and work much better. As the name implies they must be made in Germany and just like a VW, run forever.

"Werker" may have sounded German, but that's as far at it went. Werker was a store brand name at Batteries Plus. Now Batteries + Bulbs, and have apparently dropped the name Werker.

If you blow the picture at the link up, you can clearly see this Werker SLA is "made in china" - - probably at the very same factory all the other 12 volt 7 to 10 AH SLA's are made!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WKA12-7F-12V-7Ah-AGM-Battery-12V-Werker-SLA-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Battery-/191412460050

Switching to LiFePO4.

bumper

May 13th 16, 01:28 PM

Switch to Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries. The chemistry does not supply it's own oxidizer like the Lithium Ion batteries in you laptops, so it's much safer from a fire hazard point of view. Yes they cost more up front, but they last longer so in the long run they end up costing less. I'm still running the original K2 batteries that were the subject of my battery article in Soaring sever years ago. They still work fine, no battery issues since the switch. The electronics, and especially the radio like the fact that the voltage never drops below 12V, after 5 hours in the air with a full panel of electronic gizmos.

SF