Most Visible Color for Aircraft

[[email protected]]

Howdy,

I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on the
relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that the
best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.

Any pointers will be welcome,
tom pettit

[Don Tuite]

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 05:33:57 GMT, wrote:

>Howdy,
>
>I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on the
>relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that the
>best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.
>
>Any pointers will be welcome,
>tom pettit

The Coast Guard probably did some study before it painted its
helicopters.

Don

[Peter Duniho]

"Don Tuite" > wrote in message
...
> The Coast Guard probably did some study before it painted its
> helicopters.

Which is why they have the same color scheme as their boats? Uh, sure.

I think the original poster's guess is correct, that it depends on whether
you're looking at the airport against the ground or sky. I would expect
dark colors to stand out better against the sky, and light colors to stand
out better against the ground.

That said, for overall visibility, the fluorescent yellow/green used on many
traffic signs and emergency vehicles is probably the most visible color.
Also, keep in mind that the color is probably only going to make the most
difference when close to the aircraft. At a distance, contrast will still
be an issue, but against the sky, pretty much any airplane will just look
like a shadow, regardless of color.

Of course, up close is when you care most about seeing the other aircraft,
so it's not as if the question is simply academic. :)

Pete

[Cub Driver]

>I would guess that the
>best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.

If you have ever been in the pattern with a Piper J-3, you must know
that the best color is Cub Yellow.

I live in New Hampshire, where most of the ground is covered by white
pine. For several years there was an L-4 wannabe (a J-3 painted up as
a Grasshopper) used for training at the local airport. It was a bear
to spot in the pattern, especially if you were higher. Name of Nine
Seven Mike.

Happily someone banged up a wing, so while it was in the shop, it was
painted with invasion stripes on that wing only. You cannot believe
the difference those two? three? stripes made!

Later, someone else banged up a wing the second time, but alas it was
the same wing, so I never got a chance to see if a second set of
stripes would have improved things even more.

Nine Seven Mike has since been sold down the river, so you may see it
at your airport.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Ash Wyllie]

tompet opined

>Howdy,

>I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on the
>relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that the
>best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.

From flying RC models, I have find that yellow stands out the best. Even in
twilight I can track a plane from the open sky to below the tree line.

-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

[Julian Scarfe]

> wrote in message
...
> Howdy,
>
> I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on
the
> relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that
the
> best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.

I think white on top (contrast vs ground clutter) and dark on the underside
(contrast vs sky) works well, like, for example, the factory Mooney schemes,
http://www.mooney.com/ .

Julian Scarfe

[Dennis O'Connor]

A study within the military showed that the most visible color for
identifying the shape of a plane against any background, is a solid, dark
blue...
Now, don't shoot the messenger as he has a tender hide... If you don't like
the message, do your own research...
denny
"Julian Scarfe" > wrote in message
news:zZE2c.1820$re1.1377@newsfe1-win...
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on
> the
> > relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that
> the
> > best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the
ground.
>
> I think white on top (contrast vs ground clutter) and dark on the
underside
> (contrast vs sky) works well, like, for example, the factory Mooney
schemes,
> http://www.mooney.com/ .
>
> Julian Scarfe
>
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

Article in Passagemaker <boating magazine> cited the coast guard who rescued
some sailers in the water who were wearing flotation suits of safety
yellow.. The chopper crew agreed that if the suits had been orange or red,
they would have missed them... They could not see the international orange
raft that was drifting nearby, but the yellow suits showed against the haze
like beacons..
denny

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> >I would guess that the
> >best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.
>
> If you have ever been in the pattern with a Piper J-3, you must know
> that the best color is Cub Yellow.
>

[Robert Moore]

Cub Driver wrote

> If you have ever been in the pattern with a Piper J-3, you must know
> that the best color is Cub Yellow.

Probably not true. When I started flight training in Pensacola in
1958, all of the Navy's trainers (T-34, T-28, and SNJ) were painted
"Cub Yellow". By the time that I graduated 18 months later, after
extensive research, the Navy had repainted their training fleet to
the current color scheme, white and red. This is of course the same
as that used by the Coast Guard and has lasted for 45 years.

Bob Moore

[Julian Scarfe]

> > I think white on top (contrast vs ground clutter) and dark on the
> underside
> > (contrast vs sky) works well, like, for example, the factory Mooney
> schemes,
> > http://www.mooney.com/ .

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
> A study within the military showed that the most visible color for
> identifying the shape of a plane against any background, is a solid, dark
> blue...
> Now, don't shoot the messenger as he has a tender hide... If you don't
like
> the message, do your own research...

No shots fired. :-) Do you have a reference for the study?

I remember the RAF Tornados getting painted black all over some years ago
after similar studies. Presumably they get repainted before going into
action.

I'd hesitate to paint a GA aircraft dark on top unless it was going to spend
most of its time in the shade.

Julian

[d b]

The better solution is what reflects light the most. Generally, your
attention is drawn to the object, not by it's color, but it's difference.
When a glint of light is seen, it stands out. All colors look dark
from a distance. Especially down sun.

It is interesting that model planes covered with transparent coverings
are more visible than those with solid colors.

White is better than most. When I see a white plane with a
contrasting stripe, the contrasting stripe disappears before the
white plane does. Sometimes a vertical fin looks like two pieces
flying in formation, the stripe disappears.

One other significant item. The top of your fuel tanks should
always be white, or as close to white as possible.. The worse thing
to have is to have a dark color.

During hot fuel testing they paint the tanks black and set in the
sun awhile. Hot fuel vapor locks quicker.


In article <zZE2c.1820$re1.1377@newsfe1-win>, "Julian Scarfe"
> wrote:
> wrote in message
...
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on
>the
>> relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that
>the
>> best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.
>
>I think white on top (contrast vs ground clutter) and dark on the underside
>(contrast vs sky) works well, like, for example, the factory Mooney schemes,
>http://www.mooney.com/ .
>
>Julian Scarfe
>
>

[Gene Seibel]

Light on top, dark on bottom?
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message >...
> "Don Tuite" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The Coast Guard probably did some study before it painted its
> > helicopters.
>
> Which is why they have the same color scheme as their boats? Uh, sure.
>
> I think the original poster's guess is correct, that it depends on whether
> you're looking at the airport against the ground or sky. I would expect
> dark colors to stand out better against the sky, and light colors to stand
> out better against the ground.
>
> That said, for overall visibility, the fluorescent yellow/green used on many
> traffic signs and emergency vehicles is probably the most visible color.
> Also, keep in mind that the color is probably only going to make the most
> difference when close to the aircraft. At a distance, contrast will still
> be an issue, but against the sky, pretty much any airplane will just look
> like a shadow, regardless of color.
>
> Of course, up close is when you care most about seeing the other aircraft,
> so it's not as if the question is simply academic. :)
>
> Pete

[Teacherjh]

What are "invasion stripes"?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Saryon]

On 07 Mar 2004 15:14:08 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote:

>What are "invasion stripes"?

I could be wrong but I believe it's the set of black-white-black
stripes painted on Allied aircraft towards D-Day in WWII. If it is
what I'm thinking http://www.airliners.net/open.file/506614/M/ might
be a decent picture.

[G.R. Patterson III]

wrote:
>
> Any pointers will be welcome,

If you want to stand out against any background, go with lemon yellow or white
with an orange and red starburst pattern.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Teacherjh wrote:
>
> What are "invasion stripes"?

Sets of alternating black and white bands on the wings and fuselage. With the
exception of some of the high-level bombers, all Allied aircraft that were
expected to fly over Europe in support of the invasion of Normandy were painted
with these. The idea was to keep our troops from shooting at our own aircraft.

They don't necessarily make an aircraft more visible, but they allowed troops
to figure out at a glance whose side the plane was on if they saw it.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

[Doug]

Red on yellow.

wrote in message >...
> Howdy,
>
> I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on the
> relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that the
> best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.
>
> Any pointers will be welcome,
> tom pettit

[Gregg Ballou]

A study was done in england to find the best color/pattern for
increasing glider visibility. They found out that solid black was
best (unfortunetly grp aircraft have to be mostly white, heat issues)
and that bright stripes on a white aircraft broke up the silhouette
and did'nt improve visiblility. I heard the same argument regarding
military use of parachutes, they are grey because all black creates a
definitive outline even at night.

[Bob Gardner]

The Coast Guard choppers that I see around Puget Sound are red with a white
stripe.

Bob Gardner

"Robert Moore" > wrote in message
. 7...
> Cub Driver wrote
>
> > If you have ever been in the pattern with a Piper J-3, you must know
> > that the best color is Cub Yellow.
>
> Probably not true. When I started flight training in Pensacola in
> 1958, all of the Navy's trainers (T-34, T-28, and SNJ) were painted
> "Cub Yellow". By the time that I graduated 18 months later, after
> extensive research, the Navy had repainted their training fleet to
> the current color scheme, white and red. This is of course the same
> as that used by the Coast Guard and has lasted for 45 years.
>
> Bob Moore

[Bill A.]

After thinking about I would go with the alternating Coast Guard red, black
(on the bottom) white (on the top), and neon/dayglow yellow (the color of
the traffic safety signs in CA). Now mind you I wouldn't want to look at it
with out sunglasses on (or look at it at all really) but I really think it
would be hard to miss.


> wrote in message
...
> Howdy,
>
> I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on
the
> relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that
the
> best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.
>
> Any pointers will be welcome,
> tom pettit

[John Pelchat]

Saryon > wrote in message >...
> On 07 Mar 2004 15:14:08 GMT, (Teacherjh)
> wrote:
>
> >What are "invasion stripes"?
>
> I could be wrong but I believe it's the set of black-white-black
> stripes painted on Allied aircraft towards D-Day in WWII. If it is
> what I'm thinking http://www.airliners.net/open.file/506614/M/ might
> be a decent picture.

Those indeed are invasion stripes. Invasion stripes are black & white
stripes painted (in some cases hastily) parallel to the chordline on
Allied aircraft before the June 1944 invasion of Normandy. The intent
was to allow the easy rapid recoginition of Allied aircraft and keep
them from being shot down by their own side.

Blue skies at all

John

[Teacherjh]

I read somewhere that the standard camouflage (splotches of various greens) was
not as effective at hiding things as random sharp edges of contrasty colors.
It's anti-intuitive, and I don't have a picture of it, but maybe somebody else
remembers.

Memory is the second thing to go.

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Jeff Franks]

I read where they did a study that the best camo against the sky (opposite
of your question) was a powder pink. Course, the military opted for the
second best, gray. I don't know that an F-15 fully armed and painted pink
instills much fear.


> wrote in message
...
> Howdy,
>
> I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on
the
> relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that
the
> best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.
>
> Any pointers will be welcome,
> tom pettit

[Cub Driver]

>the Navy had repainted their training fleet to
>the current color scheme, white and red. This is of course the same
>as that used by the Coast Guard and has lasted for 45 years.

Right, and fire engines used to be red but now are yellow.

Perhaps because the navy and the Coasties can ensure that their
population doesn't include color-blind, while the population at large
cannot?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>A study within the military showed that the most visible color for
>identifying the shape of a plane against any background, is a solid, dark
>blue...

During WWII the RAF painted its photo-recce planes dark blue so they
couldn't be seen.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>What are "invasion stripes"?
>
>Jose

In a vain attempt to prevent Allied seamen from shooting down Allied
aircraft, all planes going to France on June 6, 1944, were painted
with white tempera stripes on the wings, above and below.

All the women paint manufacturers in Britain worked through their
Whitsun weekend to make the paint, and it was put on the planes
overnight on June 5-6.

See for example
http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/photo_galleries/merhar/Captions3/028_Invasion_Stripes.htm

It washed off after a few weeks or months, but is still very popular
for L-4s.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Saryon]

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:07:19 -0600, "Jeff Franks"
> wrote:

>I read where they did a study that the best camo against the sky (opposite
>of your question) was a powder pink. Course, the military opted for the
>second best, gray. I don't know that an F-15 fully armed and painted pink
>instills much fear.

I dunno, it would take a brave man..... ;)

[G.R. Patterson III]

Cub Driver wrote:
>
> During WWII the RAF painted its photo-recce planes dark blue so they
> couldn't be seen.

First off, it's sort of an electric robin's egg blue - not very dark, and
secondly, very few of us are flying at 40,000'.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Bill A." wrote:
>
> After thinking about I would go with the alternating Coast Guard red, black
> (on the bottom) white (on the top), and neon/dayglow yellow (the color of
> the traffic safety signs in CA). Now mind you I wouldn't want to look at it
> with out sunglasses on (or look at it at all really) but I really think it
> would be hard to miss.

I would think you'd need ANR headsets rather than sunglasses. :-)

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Teacherjh wrote:
>
> I read somewhere that the standard camouflage (splotches of various greens) was
> not as effective at hiding things as random sharp edges of contrasty colors.
> It's anti-intuitive, and I don't have a picture of it, but maybe somebody else
> remembers.

The eye tends to blend contrasting colors (eg. red and green) to brown. That
would be a good camouflage over a brown background.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jeff Franks wrote:
>
> I read where they did a study that the best camo against the sky (opposite
> of your question) was a powder pink. Course, the military opted for the
> second best, gray.

I tend to doubt that. The U.S. military did not hesitate to fly pink aircraft out
of North Africa in WW II. The color worked well against the sand of Tunisia; not
so well against the skies of Italy and Rumania.

> I don't know that an F-15 fully armed and painted pink instills much fear.

Well, if you aren't scared of it and need to be, you die. Doesn't matter what
color it is.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[Ash Wyllie]

Gregg Ballou opined

>A study was done in england to find the best color/pattern for
>increasing glider visibility. They found out that solid black was
>best (unfortunetly grp aircraft have to be mostly white, heat issues)
>and that bright stripes on a white aircraft broke up the silhouette
>and did'nt improve visiblility. I heard the same argument regarding
>military use of parachutes, they are grey because all black creates a
>definitive outline even at night.

Is black good when looking down for an aircraft?


-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

[Bruce Bockius]

I haven't heard anyone comment on an unpainted (silver) metal plane.
Any thoughts on if it is easier or harder to see than a painted one?

"Ash Wyllie" > wrote in message >...
> tompet opined
>
> >Howdy,
>
> >I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on the
> >relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that the
> >best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.
>
> From flying RC models, I have find that yellow stands out the best. Even in
> twilight I can track a plane from the open sky to below the tree line.
>
> -ash
> Cthulhu for President!
> Why vote for a lesser evil?

[Cub Driver]

>> During WWII the RAF painted its photo-recce planes dark blue so they
>> couldn't be seen.
>
>First off, it's sort of an electric robin's egg blue - not very dark, and
>secondly, very few of us are flying at 40,000'.

Very few Hurricanes did either.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Bushy]

Several British spitfire photo recon aircraft were pink in WW2.

However this was not to make them dificult to see, but to make the German AA
gunners laugh so much they couldn't shoot straight!

Hope this helps,
Peter


> I read where they did a study that the best camo against the sky (opposite
> of your question) was a powder pink. Course, the military opted for the
> second best, gray. I don't know that an F-15 fully armed and painted pink
> instills much fear.
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

On the reference, Julian, I simply cannot remember where I read that... I
was surfing various government and military web sites when I chanced upon
it, sometime in the past ten years <if that helps>...

Black planes were normallyused only for night hunters, being too visible
during the day, and that was universal among the combatants of WWII...
Remember, in those days you had to fly up on someone's tail to blast them,
so low visibility was crucial for survival at night... Much of the aircraft
in the battlefield had their paint mostly stripped off and repainted to
match their environment - and too hell with some armchair general's orders
back in the states...

Look at the picture of Yeager's, Glamorous Glennis in actual battle dress,
it is a smudged, dull, grey to match battlefield murky/smoky conditions and
prevent reflections...
In today's battlefields, the ID is made by the electronics and the missile
launched from miles away... Visibility is now an issue for air traffic
control and rescue crews, not air to air combat...
denny

"Julian Scarfe" > wrote in message Do you have a
reference for the study?
>
> I remember the RAF Tornados getting painted black all over some years ago
> after similar studies.

[Ash Wyllie]

Bruce Bockius opined

>I haven't heard anyone comment on an unpainted (silver) metal plane.
>Any thoughts on if it is easier or harder to see than a painted one?

A good mirror is real hard to see.

>"Ash Wyllie" > wrote in message
>...
>> tompet opined
>>
>> >Howdy,
>>
>> >I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on
>> >the relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess
>> >that the best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the
>> >ground.
>>
>> From flying RC models, I have find that yellow stands out the best. Even in
>> twilight I can track a plane from the open sky to below the tree line.
>>
>> -ash
>> Cthulhu for President!
>> Why vote for a lesser evil?


-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

[G.R. Patterson III]

Bruce Bockius wrote:
>
> I haven't heard anyone comment on an unpainted (silver) metal plane.
> Any thoughts on if it is easier or harder to see than a painted one?

My personal experience is that they show up well on sunny days and disappear on
grey days.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Cub Driver wrote:
>
> >> During WWII the RAF painted its photo-recce planes dark blue so they
> >> couldn't be seen.
> >
> >First off, it's sort of an electric robin's egg blue - not very dark, and
> >secondly, very few of us are flying at 40,000'.
>
> Very few Hurricanes did either.

That's why they used special Spitfires for the job.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[Paul Sengupta]

Black is the best. The RAF did a study. They're now painting all their
trainers black.

Paul

> wrote in message
...
> I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on
the
> relative visibility of various colors for aircraft.

[Paul Sengupta]

"Julian Scarfe" > wrote in message
news:fnF2c.1824$re1.544@newsfe1-win...
> No shots fired. :-) Do you have a reference for the study?
>
> I remember the RAF Tornados getting painted black all over some years ago
> after similar studies. Presumably they get repainted before going into
> action.

Most of the RAF training fleet is now black. The Tornado GR4s are
being painted black too. Tornados tended to get painted for the job
at hand. For desert camouflage during Desert Storm they were painted
in this colour:
http://www.flyingzone.co.uk/tornadoinfocus/desertstormunits.htm

RAF black:
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/hawk.html
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/tucano.html
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/griffin.html
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/ssquirrel.html

> I'd hesitate to paint a GA aircraft dark on top unless it was going to
spend
> most of its time in the shade.

Mine seems to survive ok out in the sun. Ok, it's based near Andover
in Hampshire rather than Arizona. I've even got a black cover for it.

My plane:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P6D3256A7

Grey was seen to be the low visibility scheme.

Paul

[Paul Sengupta]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
> Cub Driver wrote:
> > "G.R. Patterson III" wrote
> > >First off, it's sort of an electric robin's egg blue - not very dark,
and
> > >secondly, very few of us are flying at 40,000'.
> >
> > Very few Hurricanes did either.
>
> That's why they used special Spitfires for the job.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=109363
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=104095
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=145761
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=P6159~ser=SPAV
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery-pu.jsp?index=14&Group=7prg
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1998/08/stuff_eng_detail_spit19.htm

A PR squadron:
http://www.rafmarham.co.uk/organisation/39squadron/1pruhistory.htm

Paul

[John Galban]

(Teacherjh) wrote in message >...
> I read somewhere that the standard camouflage (splotches of various greens) was
> not as effective at hiding things as random sharp edges of contrasty colors.
> It's anti-intuitive, and I don't have a picture of it, but maybe somebody else
> remembers.

The Royal Navy used that method for ships. The random patterns and
contrasting colors made it difficult to identify a ship's type, speed
and course from a distance. I don't know if the same thing would
work on aircraft.

Here's an example of some schemes used in WWII :

http://www.steelnavy.com/images/WR_RN_CAMO2/sample2.jpg

These are pretty mild compared to some of the others I've seen (i.e.
black on white rectangles, triangles and big red circles).

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[John Galban]

wrote in message >...
> Howdy,
>
> I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on the
> relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that the
> best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the ground.
>
> Any pointers will be welcome,

I can't believe this thread has gone on for two days without anyone
posting a URL to Neal Howard's Checkerbird.

Here it is : http://www.nealhoward.net/

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Brian Burger]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, John Galban wrote:

> (Teacherjh) wrote in message >...
> > I read somewhere that the standard camouflage (splotches of various greens) was
> > not as effective at hiding things as random sharp edges of contrasty colors.
> > It's anti-intuitive, and I don't have a picture of it, but maybe somebody else
> > remembers.
>
> The Royal Navy used that method for ships. The random patterns and
> contrasting colors made it difficult to identify a ship's type, speed
> and course from a distance. I don't know if the same thing would
> work on aircraft.

Well, the Czech Air Force tried something related on at least one Mig21:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/469919/M/

Pretty cool paint scheme, but I'm not sure how useful it would be as
actual camo while airborne.

Brian.

[Brian Burger]

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004, Dennis O'Connor wrote:

> A study within the military showed that the most visible color for
> identifying the shape of a plane against any background, is a solid, dark
> blue...

Really? Against the sky, I can understand, but at a nearby airstrip that's
close to our usual practice area there's an advanced ultralight that's
dark navy blue, and that one is nearly impossible to see against the dark
conifers around that strip. It's even hard to see against the pastures &
fields nearby.

OTOH, the Canadian Air Force is also painting most of its training planes
dark blue now, so maybe there is something to it. Both the Hawks
(http://www.airliners.net/open.file/435441/M/) and the Harvard IIs
(http://www.airliners.net/open.file/435441/M/) are now dark blue. I've
seen both on the ground here, but not from the air against the ground.

Brian.



> Now, don't shoot the messenger as he has a tender hide... If you don't like
> the message, do your own research...
> denny
> "Julian Scarfe" > wrote in message
> news:zZE2c.1820$re1.1377@newsfe1-win...
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > I've been looking all over, and I can't seem to find any discussions on
> > the
> > > relative visibility of various colors for aircraft. I would guess that
> > the
> > > best color might be different when viewed against the sky or the
> ground.
> >
> > I think white on top (contrast vs ground clutter) and dark on the
> underside
> > (contrast vs sky) works well, like, for example, the factory Mooney
> schemes,
> > http://www.mooney.com/ .
> >
> > Julian Scarfe
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Buff5200]

Cub Driver wrote:

>>
>>
>Right, and fire engines used to be red but now are yellow.
>
>
All the fire engines in our town went back to Red after a decade of
yellow/green.

It was found that Lighting is much more important than the color for
visibility.

And when our fire trucks were yellow/green the public thought they were
highway/garbage trucks. We went back to Red because that's the color
the public most associates with fire trucks.

>
>

[Jay Beckman]

"Buff5200" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Cub Driver wrote:
>
> >>
> >>
> >Right, and fire engines used to be red but now are yellow.
> >
> >
> All the fire engines in our town went back to Red after a decade of
> yellow/green.
>
> It was found that Lighting is much more important than the color for
> visibility.
>
> And when our fire trucks were yellow/green the public thought they were
> highway/garbage trucks. We went back to Red because that's the color
> the public most associates with fire trucks.
>

CD,

Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know what the upside of painting
Fire/Rescue Vehicles WHITE was supposed to be?

I don't see too many these days, but for a while it was quite prevalent
around the Phoenix metro area.

TIA,

Jay

[Morgans]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote
>
> Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know what the upside of painting
> Fire/Rescue Vehicles WHITE was supposed to be?
>
> I don't see too many these days, but for a while it was quite prevalent
> around the Phoenix metro area.
>
> TIA,
>
> Jay

Yes, they are cooler. Ever been in a red van in Arizona?
--
Jim in NC


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[Cub Driver]

Arizona hearses are white also.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:38:43 -0500, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>"Jay Beckman" > wrote
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know what the upside of painting
>> Fire/Rescue Vehicles WHITE was supposed to be?
>>
>> I don't see too many these days, but for a while it was quite prevalent
>> around the Phoenix metro area.
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Jay
>
> Yes, they are cooler. Ever been in a red van in Arizona?

all the best -- Dan Ford
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