Minden Tube.

[quietpilot]

Curiously.
how does a minden tube differ from a normal tube or clamshell?

[Bob Kuykendall]

On May 20, 4:17*pm, quietpilot > wrote:
> Curiously.
> how does a minden tube differ from a normal tube or clamshell?

Though it was made in the 1980s, it is not totally tubular.

Thanks, Bob K.

[Whiskey Delta]

On May 21, 10:17*am, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> On May 20, 4:17*pm, quietpilot > wrote:
>
> > Curiously.
> > how does a minden tube differ from a normal tube or clamshell?
>
> Though it was made in the 1980s, it is not totally tubular.
>
> Thanks, Bob K.

No, but it can be bitch'in.

[quietpilot]

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:47:37 AM UTC-5, Whiskey Delta wrote:
> On May 21, 10:17*am, Bob Kuykendall > wrote: > On May 20, 4:17*pm, quietpilot > wrote: > > > Curiously. > > how does a minden tube differ from a normal tube or clamshell? > > Though it was made in the 1980s, it is not totally tubular. > > Thanks, Bob K. No, but it can be bitch'in.

a radical departure from the norm?

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Monday, May 20, 2013 6:17:24 PM UTC-5, quietpilot wrote:
> Curiously. how does a minden tube differ from a normal tube or clamshell?

Tubes and Clamshells are two subsets of trailers. Tubes and boxes open at one or both ends to let the glider in and out. Clamshells have all or part of the top swing up to let the glider in and out.

Minden Tubes are square alminum frame hoops on 2 foot centers, with skins running lengthwise along the trailer. One on each side, and one over the top. Interesting extrusion at the bottom, and generally have a wooden floor. They also added an extra skin to the inside of the trailer around the cutout for the vertical fin box.

Schreder Tubes are all 1 inch square aluminum tube frames (floor and hoops) with hoops on 4 foot centers, skins wrap from one side, over the top, to the other side. Generally have an aluminum floor.

Pfeiffer Tubes are steel tube truss sides, wooden floors, fiberglass hoops and skins.

Komet's are gnarly. Cobra's are Bitch'in.

Then, there was a Swiss company that made egg shaped trailers.

So, as you can see, there really is no "norm" for trailers. Other than two wheels is the generally accepted "norm". Have had a couple of 4 wheeled glider trailers. They are now two wheeled glider trailers, and I am much happier now. Ready for thread shift? :-)

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:30:24 PM UTC-4, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Monday, May 20, 2013 6:17:24 PM UTC-5, quietpilot wrote:
>
> > Curiously. how does a minden tube differ from a normal tube or clamshell?
>
>
>
> Tubes and Clamshells are two subsets of trailers. Tubes and boxes open at one or both ends to let the glider in and out. Clamshells have all or part of the top swing up to let the glider in and out.
>
>
>
> Minden Tubes are square alminum frame hoops on 2 foot centers, with skins running lengthwise along the trailer. One on each side, and one over the top. Interesting extrusion at the bottom, and generally have a wooden floor. They also added an extra skin to the inside of the trailer around the cutout for the vertical fin box.
>
>
>
> Schreder Tubes are all 1 inch square aluminum tube frames (floor and hoops) with hoops on 4 foot centers, skins wrap from one side, over the top, to the other side. Generally have an aluminum floor.
>
>
>
> Pfeiffer Tubes are steel tube truss sides, wooden floors, fiberglass hoops and skins.
>
>
>
> Komet's are gnarly. Cobra's are Bitch'in.
>
>
>
> Then, there was a Swiss company that made egg shaped trailers.
>
>
>
> So, as you can see, there really is no "norm" for trailers. Other than two wheels is the generally accepted "norm". Have had a couple of 4 wheeled glider trailers. They are now two wheeled glider trailers, and I am much happier now. Ready for thread shift? :-)

Don't forget about the UK. They've got their own brands of curious and quirky trailers. A friend of mine had an LS4 here in the US that somehow ended up in a British trailer. IIRC, either the fuselage or the wings went in "backwards" resulting in a whole dance at the time of assembly/disassembly.. It wasn't a Shirenewton... maybe an Angus-something-or-other?

[GC[_2_]]

On 22/05/2013 08:50, Papa3 wrote:

> Don't forget about the UK. They've got their own brands of curious
> and quirky trailers. A friend of mine had an LS4 here in the US that
> somehow ended up in a British trailer. IIRC, either the fuselage or
> the wings went in "backwards" resulting in a whole dance at the time
> of assembly/disassembly. It wasn't a Shirenewton... maybe an
> Angus-something-or-other?

Aberdeen Angus, I think - or maybe Poll Hereford. Is that the trailer
where the fuselage and wings go in from the hitch end, not the number
plate end?

Or is it the one with the door at the hitch end where the wigtips go in
first on a strop which runs in a track on the roof - until it jams
halfway in and you can't get past the wing and fuselage to disgorge it
(or whatever you need to do with jammed wheels in tracks).

GC

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:35:24 AM UTC-5, GC wrote:
> Aberdeen Angus, I think - or maybe Poll Hereford. Is that the trailer where the fuselage and wings go in from the hitch end, not the number plate end? Or is it the one with the door at the hitch end where the wigtips go in first on a strop which runs in a track on the roof - until it jams halfway in and you can't get past the wing and fuselage to disgorge it (or whatever you need to do with jammed wheels in tracks). GC

Ugh. Yes, the early Schleicher trailer has you hang the tip in a strap that runs in a track along the roof, tip went in first, and you carried the root out. Great fun with an AS-W12. Not as bad with a 15. Some US Made Sailplane Associates trailers do this, too. But, a lot of them load through the number plate end. Early Schleicher loaded over the hitch. Then, there were the ones that had the hitch that got un-pinned from one side and swung out of the way for loading from the hitch end.

Thank goodness we have evolved as we have. Those old trailers were a royal pain in the Arse!

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

On 5/22/2013 1:29 PM, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:35:24 AM UTC-5, GC wrote:
>> Aberdeen Angus, I think - or maybe Poll Hereford. Is that the trailer
>> where the fuselage and wings go in from the hitch end, not the number
>> plate end? Or is it the one with the door at the hitch end where the
>> wigtips go in first on a strop which runs in a track on the roof - until
>> it jams halfway in and you can't get past the wing and fuselage to
>> disgorge it (or whatever you need to do with jammed wheels in tracks).
>> GC
>
> Ugh. Yes, the early Schleicher trailer has you hang the tip in a strap
> that runs in a track along the roof, tip went in first, and you carried the
> root out. Great fun with an AS-W12. Not as bad with a 15. Some US Made
> Sailplane Associates trailers do this, too. But, a lot of them load
> through the number plate end. Early Schleicher loaded over the hitch.
> Then, there were the ones that had the hitch that got un-pinned from one
> side and swung out of the way for loading from the hitch end.
>
> Thank goodness we have evolved as we have. Those old trailers were a royal
> pain in the Arse!
>

Haw! They were a PITA even "way back when (I was young and stupid)!!!" They
haven't improved with age - theirs OR mine.

Sailplane trailer evolution is a classic case of darwinism in
action...combined with intelligent design...uh oh, I may be in trouble with
some portions of society here.

Bob - I'll be leaving now, my work here is done - W.

P.S. For the life of me, I've NEVER been able to imagine even a
half-baked-rationale why anyone would have EVER designed a glider trailer to
load/unload over the tongue. I owned one once. I let the neighbor kids destroy
it with sledgehammers, then burned the resulting splinters. Both events were
immensely soul-satisfying for all concerned.

[[email protected]]

"Then, there was a Swiss company that made egg shaped trailers. "

We've got one with a Twin Astir RG in it. Ouch. Great for removing gelcoat and skin and punishing your muscles. Assembling it out of that trailer always makes me wish there really was a product called Flintstones' Chewable Morphine available. Since there isn't I usually end up grading how well an assembly went by the number of scrapes/cuts/Advils taken afterwards.

[[email protected]]

Also - it always amazes me that most tube/box trailers are made just barely big enough to contain the glider. My 15 came with an old wooden monocoque type trailer when I bought it. Unfortunately the deteriorating fiberglass sheathing and the Pacific Northwest climate conspired to return it to nature pretty quickly because it actually functioned well. The fuselage went in nose first on a big stable dolly, the wings went in root first also on big stable dollies, the horizontal stab hing from the ceiling just like in a clamshell. The smartest thing the builder did was to make it roomy. There was actually enough room inside to walk from the back to the front with the glider inside (a little over a foot of clearance between the wing and fuselage). This meant that when moving the wings in or out you could hold the tip at the height that was best for your back and not have to worry about the leading or trailing edge scraping on the trailer or fuselage.

After it disintegrated I replaced it with a clamshell which is even better.

[Bill D]

Random thoughts from an old guy:

A really-really good trailer is a joy. Cobra's are just good.

Tubes are inherently stiffer and stronger - if they're well engineered.

Most problems with tubes are related to a too-small cross section. If the tube is tilted to roll the fuselage off, the wing trailing edges hits the roof when rolled off. Raise the roof - eliminate that problem. Make it wider and get better access.

One-man riggers:

They're great but could be better with some trailer mods. Most problems are related to stumbling past the dolly carrying the wing tip and then sashaying out past the fin and back to get the wing aligned with the fuselage - sometime tricky in wind, on rough ground or in tight quarters.

Possibilities: (No lifting whatsoever.)

(1) Since most new gliders these days have detachable tips or winglets, build a wingtip dolly resembling a tail dolly that attaches to the tip using the existing fittings so as to eliminate carrying the tip weight as the wing is rolled off the trailer. Tip dolly should be jack-able with a castering wheel. Attach-jack-roll out.

(2) Make wing root dolly in trailer swing like a gate so the wing with tip dolly can be swung out roughly 45 degrees to the fuselage before fitting the one-man rigger. Then, remove tip dolly, pick up root and walk directly to fuselage as wing aligns rotating about the one-man rigger as you go. Advantage, one-man rigger rolls only about a meter so far less smooth surfaced space is needed. Safer in wind.

Swaying trailer:

Single-axle Cobra trailer swayed even with hulking SUV towing it and hitch loaded with more than 10% of weight. Tried inflating trailer tires to max allowed - towed dead straight afterward.

Tilting trailer:

Running front-to-back again and again to get the tilt just right is a pain in the feet. The boat guys use electric tongue jacks with the up-down switch at the back of the trailer.




On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 2:08:11 PM UTC-6, Bob Whelan wrote:
> On 5/22/2013 1:29 PM, Steve Leonard wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:35:24 AM UTC-5, GC wrote:
>
> >> Aberdeen Angus, I think - or maybe Poll Hereford. Is that the trailer
>
> >> where the fuselage and wings go in from the hitch end, not the number
>
> >> plate end? Or is it the one with the door at the hitch end where the
>
> >> wigtips go in first on a strop which runs in a track on the roof - until
>
> >> it jams halfway in and you can't get past the wing and fuselage to
>
> >> disgorge it (or whatever you need to do with jammed wheels in tracks).
>
> >> GC
>
> >
>
> > Ugh. Yes, the early Schleicher trailer has you hang the tip in a strap
>
> > that runs in a track along the roof, tip went in first, and you carried the
>
> > root out. Great fun with an AS-W12. Not as bad with a 15. Some US Made
>
> > Sailplane Associates trailers do this, too. But, a lot of them load
>
> > through the number plate end. Early Schleicher loaded over the hitch.
>
> > Then, there were the ones that had the hitch that got un-pinned from one
>
> > side and swung out of the way for loading from the hitch end.
>
> >
>
> > Thank goodness we have evolved as we have. Those old trailers were a royal
>
> > pain in the Arse!
>
> >
>
>
>
> Haw! They were a PITA even "way back when (I was young and stupid)!!!" They
>
> haven't improved with age - theirs OR mine.
>
>
>
> Sailplane trailer evolution is a classic case of darwinism in
>
> action...combined with intelligent design...uh oh, I may be in trouble with
>
> some portions of society here.
>
>
>
> Bob - I'll be leaving now, my work here is done - W.
>
>
>
> P.S. For the life of me, I've NEVER been able to imagine even a
>
> half-baked-rationale why anyone would have EVER designed a glider trailer to
>
> load/unload over the tongue. I owned one once. I let the neighbor kids destroy
>
> it with sledgehammers, then burned the resulting splinters. Both events were
>
> immensely soul-satisfying for all concerned.

[SteveB_Z5]

On Monday, May 20, 2013 4:17:24 PM UTC-7, quietpilot wrote:
> Curiously.
>
> how does a minden tube differ from a normal tube or clamshell?

I've had a Minden trailer for the past 8 years or so. I don't seem to have any trouble assembling that is the fault of the trailer. I've made a few modifications. I added a wood center rail so I don't have to pick up the tail. (I see some guys with Cobra's have to lift the tail.) I also made a wheeled/lever to the ramp to lift the cradle ( like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP2AD8rtdpA) as the single jack was too floppy. (No problems with leaky jacks like some Cobras) No critters in the years I've had it. Seems to keep the dust out. No worries about the top coming off and the hitch tube hasn't broken. That said I do need to paint the top or remove the paint that is on the sides so it's all bare aluminum. But I think I'll fly instead.
Steve
DG-200 in a Minden trailer.

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
wrote:

> "Then, there was a Swiss company that made egg shaped trailers. "
>
> We've got one with a Twin Astir RG in it. Ouch. Great for removing gelcoat
> and skin and punishing your muscles. Assembling it out of that trailer always
> makes me wish there really was a product called Flintstones' Chewable
> Morphine available. Since there isn't I usually end up grading how well an
> assembly went by the number of scrapes/cuts/Advils taken afterwards.

Not the same "egg shaped" trailer mentioned above, but I have a Swiss
made trailer that is "different". It is a "Spengler" trailer made around
1970. I know of two in North America. It is basically a "tube" type
trailer, but looks like they pulled the mold from a beached Orca. I have
toyed withe the idea of painting to look like a whale. Some have
suggested that I might seek sponsorship from the Doc Johnson or Swedish
Erotica companies.

Regardless of its odd appearance, the trailer is very functional. It is
very weather tight, has good aerodynamics,tows well, and assembling my
Libelle out of it is relatively easy. It is roomy for a Libelle and the
trailer hardware is robust and well designed. The trailer opening is
large and high, so the tube trailer problem of damaging the wing trailer
edge does not occur.It does have it's issues. It loads over the tongue
which I'm told used to be looked on favorably by those whose airfields
tended towards soggy. The trailer could be backed to the edge of the
hard surface without getting the tow vehicle or glider in the muck.
Whatever, I find "over-the-tongue" to be inconvenient. The worst problem
is that the wings load backwards. The tips go in first. This means one
has to carry the heavy roots into the trailer. With a Libelle, not so
much of a problem. If I had an LS-3, no effing way.


Still, I have to agree that, generally speaking, a clamshell trailer is
always better than a tube. BUT, a half clamshell trailer combines the
worst characteristics of both!

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:54:12 AM UTC-4, WB wrote:
> In article >,
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Then, there was a Swiss company that made egg shaped trailers. "
>
> >

There was a 301 Libelle on our field for quite some time with a big advertisement and the slogan "Wer wagt gewinnt" (along the lines of "you gotta take some chances to win" or "he who dares, wins"). I forget the brand it was advertising. It was quite a sight.

P3

[Greg Delp]

I have a new to me Minden Fab trailer with Grob Speed Astir and associated trailer rigging inside. I'm interested to find out what the differences are depending on the year these were built and type of glider specific equipment they have. My trailer has a dual track ramp and single screw jack with a wide steel ground brace for the fuselage dolly. It's a little wobbly and I'm considering adding one of the leverage bar systems as discussed above. The wings have a dolly at each end. The root dolly has a pipe and attach fitting using one of the Grob twist locks and a hold down bar with wing nuts over the spar stub to secure the wing and keep it vertical. The tip dolly is a simple dual wheel dolly. The trailer has eye bolts in the floor inboard of the tips which the previous owner used to tie down the tips for transport but this tends to pull the tips in towards the fuselage tail. Do any other Minden owners have eye bolts on the outside of the wing tips that would help keep them away from the tail yet help secure the wings? Over all while using an Udo one man rigger the trailer seems to work fairly well other than having to climb inside to release the tail hold down strap.

[Craig Funston[_2_]]

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:08:11 PM UTC-7, Bob Whelan wrote:
> On 5/22/2013 1:29 PM, Steve Leonard wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:35:24 AM UTC-5, GC wrote:
>
> >> Aberdeen Angus, I think - or maybe Poll Hereford. Is that the trailer
>
> >> where the fuselage and wings go in from the hitch end, not the number
>
> >> plate end? Or is it the one with the door at the hitch end where the
>
> >> wigtips go in first on a strop which runs in a track on the roof - until
>
> >> it jams halfway in and you can't get past the wing and fuselage to
>
> >> disgorge it (or whatever you need to do with jammed wheels in tracks).
>
> >> GC
>
> >
>
> > Ugh. Yes, the early Schleicher trailer has you hang the tip in a strap
>
> > that runs in a track along the roof, tip went in first, and you carried the
>
> > root out. Great fun with an AS-W12. Not as bad with a 15. Some US Made
>
> > Sailplane Associates trailers do this, too. But, a lot of them load
>
> > through the number plate end. Early Schleicher loaded over the hitch.
>
> > Then, there were the ones that had the hitch that got un-pinned from one
>
> > side and swung out of the way for loading from the hitch end.
>
> >
>
> > Thank goodness we have evolved as we have. Those old trailers were a royal
>
> > pain in the Arse!
>
> >
>
>
>
> Haw! They were a PITA even "way back when (I was young and stupid)!!!" They
>
> haven't improved with age - theirs OR mine.
>
>
>
> Sailplane trailer evolution is a classic case of darwinism in
>
> action...combined with intelligent design...uh oh, I may be in trouble with
>
> some portions of society here.
>
>
>
> Bob - I'll be leaving now, my work here is done - W.
>
>
>
> P.S. For the life of me, I've NEVER been able to imagine even a
>
> half-baked-rationale why anyone would have EVER designed a glider trailer to
>
> load/unload over the tongue. I owned one once. I let the neighbor kids destroy
>
> it with sledgehammers, then burned the resulting splinters. Both events were
>
> immensely soul-satisfying for all concerned.

Bob,

There are excellent reasons for loading over the tongue which have to do with trailer stability. Putting the heaviest parts of the trailer at the back and moving the axle rearward gets you a reasonable tongue weight and rock steady towing stability (even at high speeds). There have been some poorly implemented versions, but not enough to condemn an entire category.

Craig