turn point

[glen]

What size radius is used for a badge or record turn point and start
cylinder? 1 mile is used for contest turn point.
Thanks
Glen

[glen]

On May 24, 10:08*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> Amplifying Tim's comments a bit. *By the structure of your question, I'm guessing nobody has ever sat down and walked you through a badge or record declaration (don't mean that to sound either mean or condescending). While the SC is understandable after multiple read-throughs, it's usually better to partner up with an experienced pilot or official observer from your home club to plan out your flight. * As a for instance, under the current SC, your start options include:
>
> - *Release/engine off.
> - *Start line.
> - *Start point Observation Zone
>
> Each of these carries with it some gotchas that need to be understood.
>
> Same for Waypoints.
>
> It can be hard to connect the dots until someone has given you the context.

[Tony[_5_]]

Go around the turn points. Seriously. No wondering if you are close enough to get in the sector, no penalty putting your distance a fraction of an inch short of 300km. Just go around the turn points. You don't want to end up like Hitler and get your gold badge denied.

[glen]

On May 24, 6:29*pm, Tony > wrote:
> Go around the turn points. Seriously. No wondering if you are close enough to get in the sector, no penalty putting your distance a fraction of an inch short of 300km. Just go around the turn points. You don't want to end up like Hitler and get your gold badge denied.

Can I use any airport that's in the faa airport data base for a turn
point?
Thanks
Glen

[Tony[_5_]]

You can use any lat/long.as a turn point. Since you'll be showing you completed the course by ups data, having the turn point be easily identifiable is not required, although it might help with your navigation, especially if you are using only a GPS logger and not a navigation system.

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

Subject to confirmation by others more expert than me, be aware
also that GPS loggers record at intervals (usually pilot selectable).
If your logger gets points only at 12 second intervals, you need to
be in the correct zone for more than 12 seconds to ensure a point
in there is recorded.

HTH.

Chris N

[[email protected]]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 7:33:39 PM UTC-4, glen wrote:
> On May 24, 6:29*pm, Tony > wrote: > Go around the turn points. Seriously. No wondering if you are close enough to get in the sector, no penalty putting your distance a fraction of an inch short of 300km.. Just go around the turn points. You don't want to end up like Hitler and get your gold badge denied. Can I use any airport that's in the faa airport data base for a turn point? Thanks Glen

Be careful of the start if you are doing diamond goal. You must cross a start line at a height that will avoid a distance penalty. You do NOT start from a sector like other flights.
A friend fell into this trap last year. Don't rely on RAS, read the rules or pay the price in lost opportunity.
Good Luck
UH

[[email protected]]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 7:33:39 PM UTC-4, glen wrote:
> On May 24, 6:29*pm, Tony > wrote:
>
> > Go around the turn points. Seriously. No wondering if you are close enough to get in the sector, no penalty putting your distance a fraction of an inch short of 300km. Just go around the turn points. You don't want to end up like Hitler and get your gold badge denied.
>
>
>
> Can I use any airport that's in the faa airport data base for a turn
>
> point?
>
> Thanks
>
> Glen

Not very long ago photo evidence was accepted as proof of rounding a turn point.
Not much longer ago than that photo evidence was practically the ONLY proof
of rounding a turn point. Airports were readily recognizable to the OO given
airport diagrams, but commonly other landmarks were used too, like bridges,
TV towers, dams, etc. The airports are nice just in the fact that you know
there's a good place to land there (usually!).

Matt

[Tony[_5_]]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 7:44:49 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Friday, May 24, 2013 7:33:39 PM UTC-4, glen wrote:
>
> > On May 24, 6:29*pm, Tony > wrote: > Go around the turn points. Seriously. No wondering if you are close enough to get in the sector, no penalty putting your distance a fraction of an inch short of 300km. Just go around the turn points. You don't want to end up like Hitler and get your gold badge denied. Can I use any airport that's in the faa airport data base for a turn point? Thanks Glen
>
>
>
> Be careful of the start if you are doing diamond goal. You must cross a start line at a height that will avoid a distance penalty. You do NOT start from a sector like other flights.
>
> A friend fell into this trap last year. Don't rely on RAS, read the rules or pay the price in lost opportunity.
>
> Good Luck
>
> UH

hmm it's been a little over a year since i had a good read through the sporting code, but the last i remember was that as long as you used the same type (sector or line) for both the start and finish then it was fine.

One real gotcha is if you are using SeeYou or some other program like that....the radius on a start/finish sector is 1 km while for a start line the total length of the line is 1km, i.e. the radius is .5km.

start however high you want but make sure you finish within 1000 meters of that. Much less thinking involved if you go through the start line at or below 1000 meters AGL (for a closed course flight).

and yes, read the sporting code, it is available for download on the IGC website, or through links on the SSA website.

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 5:31:02 PM UTC-4, glen wrote:
>
> Thanks Erik
>
> We have no one at our club that has done any kind of badge flight
>
> that didn’t require smoking the barograph. So I’m all alone here. I
>
> did my silver last year and now I want to do a 300k declared and keep
>
> going to get a 500 done on the same flight for the Diamond badge. I
>
> don’t think I have to say where I’m going for the 500 part so I have a
>
> 300 planed that will fit into the Triangle, so if I can’t do the 500
>
> I’ll try and get back with the 3 TP of my 300. I just going to do a
>
> paper declaration in the morning with the OO and go for it. Does this
>
> sound correct?
>
> Thanks
>
> Glen

Got it. Just getting home from work, so hope this isn't too late. Taking a risk by doing this on the fly, but here goes:

A lot of people combine the Gold Distance (300K) and Diamond Goal (also 300K) in one flight. A single triangle or out and return can achieve both. So, no problem doing that.

The simplest way to handle the distance and turnpoints is to use the sector Observation Zone (aka pie wedge). No subtracting from the total distance. Just make sure:

1. You understand the geometry of the pie wedge OZ. For turnpoints, note that it is unlimited in radius, so you can fly well past the tunrpoint as long as you get into the zone.
2. If you don't have a moving map that shows the OZ, just be be sure to fly around the back side of the turnpoint by a conservative margin (say 1/2 mile or so). That's not quite the official definition, but it works.
3. Realize that the start/finish can be a line or the pie wedge OZ. The line is 500M either side of the defined start/finish point, so your best bet is to be sure to fly as close to directly over the point as possible. The OZ is the same pie wedge, but at the start/finish it is limited to 1,000M. Practically speaking, this means do a nice gradual arc about 1/2 mile behind the start/finish point.
4. Adding the next 200M is tricky with your idea, since you can only count 4 total legs. If the triangle you are thinking of has one point as the start/finish, then your last leg will be a straight out for 200K (Start/Finish, A, B, Start/Finish, C). You won't get credit for the return to the start/finish. If you started the triangle on a leg, then the geometry will be different, but the same applies - 4 total legs.

Doing all of this from memory, so can't quote chapter and verse. Main points should come through.

In the future, if you can set up a course and post it to the Badge Dude at the SSA or ask for help from a knowledgable OO beforehand, I'm sure we can help.

Erik Mann

[Bruce Friesen]

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:59:20 PM UTC-6, glen wrote:
> What size radius is used for a badge or record turn point and start
>
> cylinder? 1 mile is used for contest turn point.
>
> Thanks
>
> Glen

Glen,

Adding one thing to the good advice above: "Wait for the beep."

What I mean is, most loggers - certainly the Colibri - beep when the turnpoint is reached. No beep: you're not there yet. There could be any number of reasons, including the frequency of data points recorded, or a difference between what you see on the ground and what is in the recorder, etc. But the beep is certain evidence.

If your logger beeps, or flashes a confirmation, or whatever it does, be sure you get that in the bag before charging off to the next point. The logger making the flight log you intend to submit is the sole and awful authority.

Hope that makes sense. I myself fly with a Colibri that counts down the distance to the turnpoint; I have it where I can see it; and even after the distance to the turnpoint goes to zero and then negative I wait for the beep..

Good luck!

Bruce

Hope that makes sense.

[Tony[_5_]]

Starting below 3000 ago will work perfectly for that task. That way no matter what altitude you cross the finish line you won't exceed the max 1000 m altitude lost. Have a good flight!

[Papa3[_2_]]

So, what you're saying is... you're on a mission from God.

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:34:58 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
> So, what you're saying is... you're on a mission from God.

In case anyone was left scratching their heads:

Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Jake: Hit it.

[glen]

On May 25, 9:03*pm, Papa3 > wrote:
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:34:58 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
> > So, what you're saying is... you're on a mission from God.
>
> In case anyone was left scratching their heads:
>
> Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
> Jake: Hit it.

THAT'S IT,
but tomorrow it's 186 miles for me.Tomorrow they are doing the Indy
500, Id like to do a Glen 500.
Thanks for the help.
Glennnnnnnnnnn