Inertial sensing in Butterfly Vario, TE vs Airmass indicators

[Marc - Butterfly Avionics]

I put this into a new topic in order not to SPAM other topics where this question came up.

> I thought that a vario needed to use the 3-D inertial sensor to sort out the horizontal and vertical >components of "gusts", and I thought that nobody was doing that just yet. Or does the inertial sensor >just make the filtering better?

Well, actually a vario is an energy difference indicator. Many people (at least here in europe) want to know if total energy changes, even if the energy addition is due to a gust rather than thermal updraft. The vario needle in Butterfly Vario remains the "energy difference indicator" just as you are used to (inertial sensors are used here to e.g. acceleration induced errors etc..)

We have another indicator (blue round indicator) that indicates vertical airmass movement (kind of a that what was called netto vario in the past, but determined differently). The vertical airmass indicator is based on the inertial reference system and therefore will not show horizontal gust-induced energy changes (this can be mixed with conventional netto and tuned by many factors taking installation etc. into account).

This way you get both. Precise energy difference indication and indication of vertical airmass. Both indicators together give you a good situational overview. You know where the energy change comes from. Knowing if its worth slowing down to thermal or if the energy addition you just experienced is due to a gust is a very cool thing, especially when flying heavy gliders.

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The airmass indicator looks interesting. I have a couple questions

Can one set the audio to reflect the airmass indicator instead of the vario indicator, and would one even want to?

Is the airmass indicator useful when thermalling or only in cruise?

Thanks

[krasw]

On Saturday, 25 May 2013 03:02:54 UTC+3, wrote:
> The airmass indicator looks interesting. I have a couple questions
>
>
>
> Can one set the audio to reflect the airmass indicator instead of the vario indicator, and would one even want to?
>

Actually that would be interesting, currently audioscheme uses only TE vario/sc (I like the audioscheme, you can set the sc-audio to automatically change to vario-audio when hitting lift >mc/2).

Also, configuring inertial netto to be normal variometer would be only a matter of subtracting polar sink from netto value.


>
>
> Is the airmass indicator useful when thermalling or only in cruise?
>
>

Definitely both.

krasw

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Marc,
Is it possible to create a "dead band" for the audio in cruise when at or near the correct speed.
Dale.

[Marc - Butterfly Avionics]

On Monday, May 27, 2013 10:47:45 PM UTC+2, wrote:
> Marc,
>
> Is it possible to create a "dead band" for the audio in cruise when at or near the correct speed.
>
> Dale.

Yep this is possible. You can set individual deadbands for cruise-mode and climb-mode and also asymmetrical (e.g. +0.4 to -0.1).

Cheers
Marc

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Where on the menu do you find the settings for dead band?
Thanks, Dale

[Marc - Butterfly Avionics]

On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:41:28 AM UTC+2, wrote:
> Where on the menu do you find the settings for dead band?
>
> Thanks, Dale

In the latest version, go into the menu > setup > device

Cheers
Marc

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Thanks Marc
I found the dead band settings per your instructions. Could you give me suggested settings for a somewhat wide dead band when in the cruise mode, both above and below center. While flying today I tried many numbers both positive and negative, and didn't really achieve any significant change in the very narrow dead bend as shipped. What do the + and - numbers actually represent? Is there a list of functions that are shared between front and back instruments, and those that are individual to each unit? For instance QNH changes by either instrument will change the second, but infobox settings are unique to each vario and can be individually tailored. Is the dead band function individual or master/slave?
Thanks again

Dale Bush

[Marc - Butterfly Avionics]

Dear Dale,

when having a two-seater installation always the settings of the device with the speaker take effect. So you will have to adjust the deadband in this device.

Other settings like volume, QNH, NAV-target, MC are kept up-to-date in both units.

Best wishes
Marc

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Thanks again,

I use both speakers when flying my ASH25. On my last flight I had the rear seat passenger turn his volume completely down and attempted to set the dead band on my unit. Changing the numbers plus or minus up to 100 seemed to make no difference. Do I need to disable one of the speakers or perhaps set it from the back seat? Does increasing positive or negative numbers increase the wide band?

Dale

[Marc - Butterfly Avionics]

Dear Dale,

it is very important in a two-seater setup that you setup both display units with the appropriate peripherals-settings.

In Detail:
Go to Menu > Setup > Device > Peripherals and set all the connected peripherals in each unit.

Please also set the CANaerospace Node ID of one Display to "2", you can do this in Menu > Setup > Device.

Best wishes
Marc

[jfitch]

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 12:49:36 AM UTC-7, Marc - Butterfly Avionics wrote:
> Dear Dale,
>
>
>
> it is very important in a two-seater setup that you setup both display units with the appropriate peripherals-settings.
>
>
>
> In Detail:
>
> Go to Menu > Setup > Device > Peripherals and set all the connected peripherals in each unit.
>
>
>
> Please also set the CANaerospace Node ID of one Display to "2", you can do this in Menu > Setup > Device.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Marc

Marc, is there a document describing the menu tree? The manual available online is not comprehensive.

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Marc,

If I connect one of my butterflies to a portable flarm with the RJ45 cable, will it then send the flarm data to the second butterlfy?

Thanks
Dale

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Dale,

yes it does. You tell the system where the FLARM is connected, then the other unit with no connected FLARM gets all the data passed through.

Best wishes
Marc

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Marc,

I flew this weekend and now I have more questions.

1. I connected my power flarm portable to the rear seat vario, and turned on the flarm designator in both units. The rear seat display worked but not the front. How do I get both to display traffic.

2. Does the flarm screen with the bigX only change when traffic is near, or should it have a different screen once the Flarm is connected? In my case the rear unit switched to a flarm screen only when traffic was near. The front display never did anything.

3. I tried all kinds of settings for the SC dead band, and had my rear seat passenger duplicate those settings. At no time did I achive a deadband, or notice any change at all. What am I doing wrong? What settings would you suggest for a fairly wide cruise audio dead band?

4. What baud rate, and sentence should I select in the Flarm setup page?

5. Where do I change the volume for the voice commands and alarms?

The rear unit is designated #1 and the front #2 . The Flarm is connected to the rear #1 unit.

Thanks once again for your help. I love the instrument in spite of all the teething problems.

Dale


3.

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Dale:

I also have a dual Butterfly setup, and to get Flarm on both, I actually had to independently wire the Flarm core (formerly known as the brick) to both Butterfly vario units independently. I was not able to get the master vario to pass Flarm traffic data to the second unit. Perhaps this has been fixed in the most recent software update?

Marc:

It seems that you cannot get the Butterfly vario traffic page to identify Flarm traffic and let you select individual targets to display distances, climb rates, etc. Marc, will this be feature be coming in a future update? It would be nice to have the Butterfly vario units obsolete the need for a separate Flarm display.

Chris

[Marc - Butterfly Avionics]

Dale,


> 1. I connected my power flarm portable to the rear seat vario, and turned on the flarm designator in > both units. The rear seat display worked but not the front. How do I get both to display traffic.
The peripherals settings are there to tell each unit what is directly connected. You need to switch FLARM off in the peripheral settings of the unit it is not connected to, then it will get data from the other unit.

> 2. Does the flarm screen with the bigX only change when traffic is near, or should it have a different >screen once the Flarm is connected? In my case the rear unit switched to a flarm screen only when >traffic was near. The front display never did anything.
This depends on your FLARM range. It always displays traffic that is received.

> 3. I tried all kinds of settings for the SC dead band, and had my rear seat passenger duplicate those >settings. At no time did I achive a deadband, or notice any change at all. What am I doing wrong? >What settings would you suggest for a fairly wide cruise audio dead band?
I'd suggest about 10%, but that just me. (I've heard many options on this ranging from 1 to 15%). Are you sure that your mode-switching works good (i.e. sc to var mode switching)?

> 4. What baud rate, and sentence should I select in the Flarm setup page?
GPS and Traffic, 38400Bd.

> 5. Where do I change the volume for the voice commands and alarms?
With the upper rotary knob. You can push the button to access a menu that changes all volumes (SC/VAR/Voice) independently.

Best regards
Marc

[Marc - Butterfly Avionics]

Chris,

>I was not able to get the master vario to pass Flarm traffic data to the second unit. Perhaps this has >been fixed in the most recent software update?
Yes, this now works since software 1.06.

> It seems that you cannot get the Butterfly vario traffic page to identify Flarm traffic and let you select >individual targets to display distances, climb rates, etc. Marc, will this be feature be coming in a future >update? It would be nice to have the Butterfly vario units obsolete the need for a separate Flarm display.
We may do that in the future, however actually we do not intend to integrate too many features that obsolete traffic displays and require in-flight user input. We believe that traffic should be displayed prominently on a separate screen directly in the line of sight when looking outside and that there should be no user interaction required.

Cheers
Marc