Sean F2, Evan T8, HELP! Current finish cylinder rule!

[Tom Kelley #711]

Now, this is the current rule, please read it:

10.9.2 >> Finish Cylinder
10.9.2.1 A task shall include a Finish Point not more than 2 miles from the home field and a Finish Radius not greater than 2 miles.

10.9.2.2 ‡ Minimum Finish Height
10.9.2.2.1 ‡ Each task shall include a Minimum Finish Height (MFH), set by the CD at least high enough that pilots who obtain
a valid finish can return to the home airfield for a normal pattern and landing.


The rules committee and the SSA BOD has established this as a RULE. It now requires the CD to set "AT LEAST HIGH ENOUGH" that .......for a ""NORMAL PATTERN"" and landing.

Sean Fiddler F2, or anyone else, after reading the above, is this a RULE as it reads or is it meant to be guidance as John C. says it is? It sure doesn't say guidance anywhere as I read it, but its a requirement!

Tom Kelley #711.

[Sean F (F2)]

Tom,

I agree it does not say guidance but it also does not say a specific altitude. The normal pattern is very vague as well.

I have been very hard on the RC and do not wish to continue to be critical. I will simply provide my observations and try to help everyone improve the rules. I applaud the intent of the rule. But in complex circumstances or flying areas, it has some fairly broad gaps for the CD and pilots to consider.

At the end of the day, its on the pilot. The rules can not guarantee safety unless the altitude is so high that a stall/spin or finish collision with two pilots heads down watching their altimeter is highly survivable.

Sean

[Tom Kelley #711]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 1:28:37 PM UTC-6, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> Now, this is the current rule, please read it:
>
>
>
> 10.9.2 >> Finish Cylinder
>
> 10.9.2.1 A task shall include a Finish Point not more than 2 miles from the home field and a Finish Radius not greater than 2 miles.
>
>
>
> 10.9.2.2 ‡ Minimum Finish Height
>
> 10.9.2.2.1 ‡ Each task shall include a Minimum Finish Height (MFH), set by the CD at least high enough that pilots who obtain
>
> a valid finish can return to the home airfield for a normal pattern and landing.
>
>
>
>
>
> The rules committee and the SSA BOD has established this as a RULE. It now requires the CD to set "AT LEAST HIGH ENOUGH" that .......for a ""NORMAL PATTERN"" and landing.
>
>
>
> Sean Fiddler F2, or anyone else, after reading the above, is this a RULE as it reads or is it meant to be guidance as John C. says it is? It sure doesn't say guidance anywhere as I read it, but its a requirement!
>
>
>
> Tom Kelley #711.

Thanks Sean,

I think we all agree that we aren't trying to be "hard" on the rules committee or the SSA BOD, sometimes what a person reads and what was meant by the poster can be several different things. But discussion is good as it helps with possible confusion later on when its really not wanted or needed.

I also read this as a rule, if its meant to be guidance only, then let it state so. As I am the current CD of Region 9 Moriarty, we need to have a clear understanding of this rule. With 2 runways, ever changing weather and wind directions, requiring the CD to set a MFH for a pilot to enter a normal pattern and landing puts one in a very difficult position.

I firmly believe its the PIC who should be responsible for this decision, not the CD, to "ensure" the arriving finisher/pilot to be able to fly a normal pattern and landing. What a normal pattern is for a new Sports Class pilot versus a well seasoned 15 or 18 Meter National winner could be very different. We can't have different altitudes for each pilot finishing.

If its meant as guidance, as John C. states, then let the change be made to read that way in the first place. Possibly a slight wording mistake has caused it to be read differently than intended.

3rd party liability is a major concern when attorneys start to place blame when something goes wrong.

Tom Kelley #711.

[Tony[_5_]]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 3:12:59 PM UTC-5, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> On Friday, May 24, 2013 1:28:37 PM UTC-6, Tom Kelley #711 wrote: > Now, this is the current rule, please read it: > > > > 10.9.2 >> Finish Cylinder > > 10.9.2.1 A task shall include a Finish Point not more than 2 miles from the home field and a Finish Radius not greater than 2 miles. > > > > 10.9.2.2 ‡ Minimum Finish Height > > 10.9.2.2.1 ‡ Each task shall include a Minimum Finish Height (MFH), set by the CD at least high enough that pilots who obtain > > a valid finish can return to the home airfield for a normal pattern and landing. > > > > > > The rules committee and the SSA BOD has established this as a RULE. It now requires the CD to set "AT LEAST HIGH ENOUGH" that .......for a ""NORMAL PATTERN"" and landing. > > > > Sean Fiddler F2, or anyone else, after reading the above, is this a RULE as it reads or is it meant to be guidance as John C. says it is? It sure doesn't say guidance anywhere as I read it, but its a requirement! > > > > Tom Kelley #711. Thanks Sean, I think we all agree that we aren't trying to be "hard" on the rules committee or the SSA BOD, sometimes what a person reads and what was meant by the poster can be several different things. But discussion is good as it helps with possible confusion later on when its really not wanted or needed. I also read this as a rule, if its meant to be guidance only, then let it state so. As I am the current CD of Region 9 Moriarty, we need to have a clear understanding of this rule. With 2 runways, ever changing weather and wind directions, requiring the CD to set a MFH for a pilot to enter a normal pattern and landing puts one in a very difficult position. I firmly believe its the PIC who should be responsible for this decision, not the CD, to "ensure" the arriving finisher/pilot to be able to fly a normal pattern and landing. What a normal pattern is for a new Sports Class pilot versus a well seasoned 15 or 18 Meter National winner could be very different. We can't have different altitudes for each pilot finishing. If its meant as guidance, as John C. states, then let the change be made to read that way in the first place. Possibly a slight wording mistake has caused it to be read differently than intended. 3rd party liability is a major concern when attorneys start to place blame when something goes wrong. Tom Kelley #711.

The Guidance mentioned is in the Appendix

[Sean F (F2)]

Page 33 of sports class rules,

A10.9.3 Gate Finish
This is the "traditional" low-altitude finish, now modified so that times are taken from the Flight Log rather than by gate personnel. This finish is
much more dramatic and spectator-friendly than a Cylinder finish, but it also presents some complications and risks that should be understood:
- Pilots and gate personnel should understand that the radio call of "Mark - Good finish [contest ID]" is now mostly for show: the Scorer
determines whether the finish was within the lateral limits of the gate.
- Gate personnel do determine whether the finish was sufficiently high. If a finish was low, they must inform the CD. They must also note which
pilots do a rolling finish, and supply this information to the Scorer.
- On a task when finishes may come from several directions, some pilots may need to "hook" the end of the gate - to fly around it so they can
finish in the specified direction. Flying through the gate in the direction opposite to the finish is a safety violation.
- If local considerations make unpredictable finish direction a problem, the Cylinder Finish should be used.
- All pilots should understand that the "low pass" or "beat up" maneuver is potentially hazardous -- it has led to stalls and spin entries, and to
closer-than-comfortable encounters between sailplanes.

[Tom Kelley #711]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 1:28:37 PM UTC-6, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> Now, this is the current rule, please read it:
>
>
>
> 10.9.2 >> Finish Cylinder
>
> 10.9.2.1 A task shall include a Finish Point not more than 2 miles from the home field and a Finish Radius not greater than 2 miles.
>
>
>
> 10.9.2.2 ‡ Minimum Finish Height
>
> 10.9.2.2.1 ‡ Each task shall include a Minimum Finish Height (MFH), set by the CD at least high enough that pilots who obtain
>
> a valid finish can return to the home airfield for a normal pattern and landing.
>
>
>
>
>
> The rules committee and the SSA BOD has established this as a RULE. It now requires the CD to set "AT LEAST HIGH ENOUGH" that .......for a ""NORMAL PATTERN"" and landing.
>
>
>
> Sean Fiddler F2, or anyone else, after reading the above, is this a RULE as it reads or is it meant to be guidance as John C. says it is? It sure doesn't say guidance anywhere as I read it, but its a requirement!
>
>
>
> Tom Kelley #711.

Below is the guidance for the CD. The guidance does not over power the rule.. The CD is required now to set the MFH so you, the entrant, shall be able to fly a normal pattern and landing.


A10.9.2 ‡ Cylinder Finish
A cylinder finish means that the race does not end at the airport, rather it ends at a defined altitude and distance from the airport. Use of the
cylinder for a finish is desirable in a number of circumstances including:
1) The contest is held at a public-use airfield where the field is open to non-contest traffic during the finish
2) The contest includes a Regional Sport class
3) A finish line creates the potential for low energy finishes over densely populated or busy areas (e.g. roads)
4) Any other circumstance that creates safety issues for a line finish.

In setting the Minimum Finish Height (MFH), the CD should take into account expected weather, glider performance, pilot skill and experience
and local traffic. The goal is for all pilots to be able to safely merge into the pattern, land normally, and roll safely clear.
Note that the MFH is the minimum height for a penalty-free finish. Because a valid finish (with a very small penalty) may be up to 200 ft below
the MFH (to accommodate instrumentation errors), it is this lower height that should be considered when setting the MFH. Thus the MFH
should normally be 700 ft AGL, which avoids creating the big step in points (landout rather than speed finish) at 300 ft AGL.
When non-contest traffic is allowed during the time gliders are finishing, consider a MFH of at least 1000 ft. AGL at one mile, plus 200 ft per
mile beyond that with the goal that contest and non-contest traffic can be smoothly integrated into a normal pattern.