How to landout on a steep uphill final?

[son_of_flubber]

A runway that I frequent has no straight ahead option for a rope break at 100 feet AGL. There is a however a highly recommended hayfield with a 90 degree turn from the takeoff heading onto the landout final. The field is 100 feet lower in elevation than the departure runway, so it is reachable if you do all the right things. For example, you need to get over the tops of the trees on the near side of the field.

So let's say the landing area is steep, say it rises 20 feet for a 200 run. Depending on when the hay was last cut, the vegetation height ranges from stubble to 30" of consistent grasses. The ground is likely to be very bumpy. Boulders have been removed from this field to facilitate haying machinery. There may be some dips, but no ditches and no hidden branches or stumps. There are power lines running down the right side of the field and there is a two lane paved road on the other side of a ditch at the end of the run out. There is sufficient run out, but not much to spare. The field gets more and more level as you get closer to the road. On the far side of the road is a cornfield, so flying high over the road is not a good option.

So I want to touch down with minimum energy. My first thought is to flair to level flight much higher than normal, say 10 feet above the ground after the flair, pull the stick back gradually to bleed off speed until the ground comes to meet my level flight. Careful not to stall prematurely of course.

OR do I flair at a normal height and ride the ground effect uphill? I imagine that I might fly into the slope and touch down with more energy than I would like and possibly do a ground loop or otherwise damage the glider (and/or my body). The field may tilt a bit left to right.

The fact that the field is tilting up steeply in front of me is going to distort my perception and that is the other reason that I'm inclined to flair deliberately high. That gives me more time to see what is happening and adjust.

Opinions and suggestions? I'm thinking about a particular field, but I'd kinda like to know in general how to approach this type of field because level fields are rare in my area.

I will of course discuss this with knowledgable people at my club, but I'd like to think about it and get some ideas before I bring it up at the airport.

[Steve Koerner]

I've not had occasion to land steeply uphill but I've thought about that scenario many times. I would plan to carry enough extra energy so that I could round out before arriving at the hill and thereby follow the uphill slope close to the terrain until the energy has bled off and then settle in for a slow touchdown. It may be trickier than I visualize though.

[BobW]

On 6/9/2013 7:33 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:

<Paraphrasing wildly...>

"Opinions for landing technique into an uphill field, please..."

<Snip>

> So I want to touch down with minimum energy. My first thought is to flare
> to level flight much higher than normal, say 10 feet above the ground after
> the flare, pull the stick back gradually to bleed off speed until the
> ground comes to meet my level flight. Careful not to stall prematurely of
> course.
>
> Or do I flare at a normal height and ride the ground effect uphill?

Them's two of the basic options, alright (though "first thought" strikes me as
decidedly bizarre when viewed from the perspective of attempting to do the
same when landing on a LEVEL field/runway)...

> I (also: RFW) imagine that I might fly into the slope and touch down with more energy
> than I would like and possibly do a ground loop or otherwise damage the
> glider (and/or my body). The field may tilt a bit left to right.

With this option you're (IMO) zeroing in on "planning goodness"...i.e. "flying
it on w/o really attempting to flare." As for worrying about the excess
energy, you'll be astounded how rapidly a noticeable uphill WILL dissipate
excess energy in any event, short field or not. That's the voice of experience
from landing gliders on uphill western runways.

> The fact that the field is tilting up steeply in front of me is going to
> distort my perception...

Very definitely! Perception likely would result in your (inadvertently) being
forced to implement Option 1) or 2) if you hadn't priorly thought things
through as you're evidently doing. Why? If you accurately follow the "how to
judge flare height" procedures you've (probably) been taught (i.e. focusing
eyeballs "well out in front of the glider" to judge flare height), odds are -
going into an uphill-sloping field - you'll flare anywhere from higher than
you expect to WAY higher than you expect, since the ground beneath you is
farther away vertically than the ground at which you're gazing to judge your
roundout height. Having flared high, likely also to very quickly-in-time
follow, is "the dreaded drop in." (Whump! Bad for plane and potentially bad
for your back.) The first broken sailplane I ever saw had this happen to it. A
Phoebus, dropped in from (per the pilot) 6 feet after he "routinely flared"
into an uphill field judging height from the FAR end of the field. Broke the
plywood bulkhead to which the gear was mounted, better I suppose than breaking
the fuselage, but still expensive to fix.

...and that is the other reason that I'm inclined to
> flare deliberately high. That gives me more time to see what is happening
> and adjust.

I suppose that's reasonable in theory, but (IMO) practice is likely to
significantly (and negatively) differ, primarily because: 1) (commenting
generally) "higher above ground than normal" in the flared condition isn't a
good situation from which to begin an energy experiment, and 2) (commenting
specifically) more or less by definition "the flared condition" is a low
energy condition. Bottom line is you will NOT have any excess energy available
to "adjust" or otherwise "fly 'er onto the ground" once flared.
>
> Opinions and suggestions? I'm thinking about a particular field, but I'd
> kinda like to know in general how to approach this type of field because
> level fields are rare in my area.

Personally, my long-standing (happily never required) mental plan for landing
in a short uphill field is to judge my roundout by bringing my focal point
MUCH closer to the touchdown target point, and attempting a flown-on touchdown
from "normal height," then depend on the hill to help dissipate the
higher-than-theoretically-ideal actual touchdown speed. If I misjudge the
actual touchdown point in the sense the field meets me "too early/before I
expect it to" then any "flying bounce's" 2nd arrival from the excess energy
will be in part mitigated by the upward sloping field in any event. Further,
in my experience "flying touchdowns" are generally gentler than "flying
energy's gone" (and you misjudged the agl height, bozo) arrivals.

It should be interesting to learn others' opinions and experiences...

Bob W.

[Bill D]

On Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:12:04 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
> I've not had occasion to land steeply uphill but I've thought about that scenario many times. I would plan to carry enough extra energy so that I could round out before arriving at the hill and thereby follow the uphill slope close to the terrain until the energy has bled off and then settle in for a slow touchdown. It may be trickier than I visualize though.

I love uphill landings. They work exactly as you describe above. Aim at the bottom of the hill with a bit of extra speed. When you rotate to match the hill slope the glider stops in a hurry. Just keep your nerve on short approach when the canopy is full of hill. It adds a new dimension to short-field landings.

[Dan Marotta]

Steve's got it spot on.

My very first landout was into an up hill freshly plowed field. I flew it
on with extra speed and the roundout included a gentle climb to touchdown.
Roll out was very short!


"Steve Koerner" > wrote in message
...
I've not had occasion to land steeply uphill but I've thought about that
scenario many times. I would plan to carry enough extra energy so that I
could round out before arriving at the hill and thereby follow the uphill
slope close to the terrain until the energy has bled off and then settle in
for a slow touchdown. It may be trickier than I visualize though.

[Papa3[_2_]]

Very much worth reading this booklet. Kai spent a lot of time on key topics, this one included. See page 6.

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/books/Gertsen/Kai_Off-airport_Ldgs.pdf



On Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:33:46 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> A runway that I frequent has no straight ahead option for a rope break at 100 feet AGL. There is a however a highly recommended hayfield with a 90 degree turn from the takeoff heading onto the landout final. The field is 100 feet lower in elevation than the departure runway, so it is reachable if you do all the right things. For example, you need to get over the tops of the trees on the near side of the field.
>
>
>
> So let's say the landing area is steep, say it rises 20 feet for a 200 run. Depending on when the hay was last cut, the vegetation height ranges from stubble to 30" of consistent grasses. The ground is likely to be very bumpy. Boulders have been removed from this field to facilitate haying machinery. There may be some dips, but no ditches and no hidden branches or stumps. There are power lines running down the right side of the field and there is a two lane paved road on the other side of a ditch at the end of the run out. There is sufficient run out, but not much to spare. The field gets more and more level as you get closer to the road. On the far side of the road is a cornfield, so flying high over the road is not a good option..
>
>
>
> So I want to touch down with minimum energy. My first thought is to flair to level flight much higher than normal, say 10 feet above the ground after the flair, pull the stick back gradually to bleed off speed until the ground comes to meet my level flight. Careful not to stall prematurely of course.
>
>
>
> OR do I flair at a normal height and ride the ground effect uphill? I imagine that I might fly into the slope and touch down with more energy than I would like and possibly do a ground loop or otherwise damage the glider (and/or my body). The field may tilt a bit left to right.
>
>
>
> The fact that the field is tilting up steeply in front of me is going to distort my perception and that is the other reason that I'm inclined to flair deliberately high. That gives me more time to see what is happening and adjust.
>
>
>
> Opinions and suggestions? I'm thinking about a particular field, but I'd kinda like to know in general how to approach this type of field because level fields are rare in my area.
>
>
>
> I will of course discuss this with knowledgable people at my club, but I'd like to think about it and get some ideas before I bring it up at the airport.

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
"Dan Marotta" > wrote:

> Steve's got it spot on.
>
> My very first landout was into an up hill freshly plowed field. I flew it
> on with extra speed and the roundout included a gentle climb to touchdown.
> Roll out was very short!
>


Did exactly that at the Chilhowee Sports Nats a few years ago. Got low
and backtracked to my chosen field only to find another glider sitting
in the middle of it. Went to plan B, a plowed-and-planted field that
covered the top of a prominent hill. I needed to stop before going over
the top of the hill or else it would quickly become an attempt at a
downhill landing. I approached well below the level of the crest of the
hill carrying extra speed to "zoom" up the hill. Matching the upslope
was surprisingly easy. Ran out of airspeed darned quick and neatly
settled on at very low speed (no spoilers). Stopped in the soft dirt way
before running over the crest of the hill.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 20:12:04 -0700, Steve Koerner wrote:

> I've not had occasion to land steeply uphill but I've thought about that
> scenario many times. I would plan to carry enough extra energy so that
> I could round out before arriving at the hill and thereby follow the
> uphill slope close to the terrain until the energy has bled off and then
> settle in for a slow touchdown. It may be trickier than I visualize
> though.

I've landed out on a fairly steep upslope a couple of times in my
Libelle. Both times I rounded out at a normal height at the bottom of the
slope and flew up at a more or less constant height AGL until the glider
settled onto the ground. Like you I thought it would be difficult, but it
wasn't. In both cases the slope had fairly long, sparse dry grass on it,
long enough to be part-way up the fuselage side after I stopped rolling.
As in this case you tend to judge hold-off height against the top of the
grass, that probably gives a bit more leeway without putting you high
enough to arrive hard. The space you need for this type of uphill landing
is gratifyingly short: flying uphill bleeds off energy quite fast even if
you are in ground effect.

PS: I had a bit of practise a few years earlier in a K13 during a visit
to Nympsfield. If there's a northerly blowing, the south end of the field
is quite uneven enough to require contour chasing after you round out.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:33:46 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> A runway that I frequent has no straight ahead option for a rope break at 100 feet AGL. There is a however a highly recommended hayfield with a 90 degree turn from the takeoff heading onto the landout final. The field is 100 feet lower in elevation than the departure runway, so it is reachable if you do all the right things. For example, you need to get over the tops of the trees on the near side of the field.
>
>
>
> So let's say the landing area is steep, say it rises 20 feet for a 200 run. Depending on when the hay was last cut, the vegetation height ranges from stubble to 30" of consistent grasses. The ground is likely to be very bumpy. Boulders have been removed from this field to facilitate haying machinery. There may be some dips, but no ditches and no hidden branches or stumps. There are power lines running down the right side of the field and there is a two lane paved road on the other side of a ditch at the end of the run out. There is sufficient run out, but not much to spare. The field gets more and more level as you get closer to the road. On the far side of the road is a cornfield, so flying high over the road is not a good option..
>
>
>
> So I want to touch down with minimum energy. My first thought is to flair to level flight much higher than normal, say 10 feet above the ground after the flair, pull the stick back gradually to bleed off speed until the ground comes to meet my level flight. Careful not to stall prematurely of course.
>
>
>
> OR do I flair at a normal height and ride the ground effect uphill? I imagine that I might fly into the slope and touch down with more energy than I would like and possibly do a ground loop or otherwise damage the glider (and/or my body). The field may tilt a bit left to right.
>
>
>
> The fact that the field is tilting up steeply in front of me is going to distort my perception and that is the other reason that I'm inclined to flair deliberately high. That gives me more time to see what is happening and adjust.
>
>
>
> Opinions and suggestions? I'm thinking about a particular field, but I'd kinda like to know in general how to approach this type of field because level fields are rare in my area.
>
>
>
> I will of course discuss this with knowledgable people at my club, but I'd like to think about it and get some ideas before I bring it up at the airport.

I had a very rough landing in France in a security field that was actually an altiport. An altiport is on a steep uphill field or runway. Mine was a rough field, but the only know field to safely land withing 20 kilometers. Such is the flying in the French Alps.

Luckily, all I did was twist the landing gear and blow the tire, and scrape the gel coat off the bottom of my glider (as well as demoralize my ego) from my hard impact. I came to an abrupt stop 100 yards short of where I thought I would first touch down and roll onward. I had landing flaps configuration, which was an error for upslope landing. When I pulled hard to flair uphill, I had only drag and no lift from the wings. You need some good L over D to flair uphill. To say the least, I had every difficulty getting the glider back into the trailer without functioning wheel gear and not getting the landing gear door closed. :(

If I had to do it again, I would go into the flair with at least 65 knots with only minimal positive flap setting and aim farther down the field than my gut instinct would tell me. (Psychologically, your senses will tell you otherwise.) Because of the illusion that you are driving into the ground with too much speed, actually you do not have enough airspeed, and you are actually flying straight into the slope of the hill, you will touch before you ever intended without enough airspeed to pull up abruptly. You will actually have to flair "much higher" than your perceptions advises you to.

If you fly in rolling hill territory or in tall mountain territory, you must make study of this type of landing because you will eventually have to do it. Even Klaus Ohlmann, the world's best mountain gliding expert, has destroyed an Nimbus 2DM (and other gliders) landing at an altiport uphill. Take note of how difficult this can be for experts with tens of thousands of mountain gliding experience.

Happy mountain soaring, it is extremely rewarding with the challenge and the joy of the views. Nothing better in this life experience.

[son_of_flubber]

On Monday, June 10, 2013 11:48:25 AM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
> Very much worth reading this booklet. Kai spent a lot of time on key topics, this one included. See page 6.
>
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/books/Gertsen/Kai_Off-airport_Ldgs.pdf

This is exactly what I need to study. Thanks!

[Frank Whiteley]

On Monday, June 10, 2013 2:37:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:33:46 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
>
> > A runway that I frequent has no straight ahead option for a rope break at 100 feet AGL. There is a however a highly recommended hayfield with a 90 degree turn from the takeoff heading onto the landout final. The field is 100 feet lower in elevation than the departure runway, so it is reachable if you do all the right things. For example, you need to get over the tops of the trees on the near side of the field.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So let's say the landing area is steep, say it rises 20 feet for a 200 run. Depending on when the hay was last cut, the vegetation height ranges from stubble to 30" of consistent grasses. The ground is likely to be very bumpy. Boulders have been removed from this field to facilitate haying machinery. There may be some dips, but no ditches and no hidden branches or stumps. There are power lines running down the right side of the field and there is a two lane paved road on the other side of a ditch at the end of the run out. There is sufficient run out, but not much to spare. The field gets more and more level as you get closer to the road. On the far side of the road is a cornfield, so flying high over the road is not a good option.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So I want to touch down with minimum energy. My first thought is to flair to level flight much higher than normal, say 10 feet above the ground after the flair, pull the stick back gradually to bleed off speed until the ground comes to meet my level flight. Careful not to stall prematurely of course.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > OR do I flair at a normal height and ride the ground effect uphill? I imagine that I might fly into the slope and touch down with more energy than I would like and possibly do a ground loop or otherwise damage the glider (and/or my body). The field may tilt a bit left to right.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The fact that the field is tilting up steeply in front of me is going to distort my perception and that is the other reason that I'm inclined to flair deliberately high. That gives me more time to see what is happening and adjust.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Opinions and suggestions? I'm thinking about a particular field, but I'd kinda like to know in general how to approach this type of field because level fields are rare in my area.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I will of course discuss this with knowledgable people at my club, but I'd like to think about it and get some ideas before I bring it up at the airport.
>
>
>
> I had a very rough landing in France in a security field that was actually an altiport. An altiport is on a steep uphill field or runway. Mine was a rough field, but the only know field to safely land withing 20 kilometers. Such is the flying in the French Alps.
>
>
>
> Luckily, all I did was twist the landing gear and blow the tire, and scrape the gel coat off the bottom of my glider (as well as demoralize my ego) from my hard impact. I came to an abrupt stop 100 yards short of where I thought I would first touch down and roll onward. I had landing flaps configuration, which was an error for upslope landing. When I pulled hard to flair uphill, I had only drag and no lift from the wings. You need some good L over D to flair uphill. To say the least, I had every difficulty getting the glider back into the trailer without functioning wheel gear and not getting the landing gear door closed. :(
>
>
>
> If I had to do it again, I would go into the flair with at least 65 knots with only minimal positive flap setting and aim farther down the field than my gut instinct would tell me. (Psychologically, your senses will tell you otherwise.) Because of the illusion that you are driving into the ground with too much speed, actually you do not have enough airspeed, and you are actually flying straight into the slope of the hill, you will touch before you ever intended without enough airspeed to pull up abruptly. You will actually have to flair "much higher" than your perceptions advises you to.
>
>
>
> If you fly in rolling hill territory or in tall mountain territory, you must make study of this type of landing because you will eventually have to do it. Even Klaus Ohlmann, the world's best mountain gliding expert, has destroyed an Nimbus 2DM (and other gliders) landing at an altiport uphill. Take note of how difficult this can be for experts with tens of thousands of mountain gliding experience.
>
>
>
> Happy mountain soaring, it is extremely rewarding with the challenge and the joy of the views. Nothing better in this life experience.

Lleweni Parc (AKA Looney Park). Final at 75kts minimum over the river to round out and land uphill and stop at the launch point. Much steeper than the 10/1 described by the OP.

Frank Whiteley

[Glen Douglas]

Having done this in a Capstan, landed OK, but as it had no wheelbrake it
rolled backwards at 25 kph, down the hill and into the gatepost. It took 11
months to rebuild the damage to the wings, elevator, tailplane and rear
fuselage.

IF your brake is suspect or you don't have one, groundloop the glider
sideways before you stop

Glen Douglas

At 05:02 11 June 2013, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>On Monday, June 10, 2013 2:37:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:33:46 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
>>=20
>> > A runway that I frequent has no straight ahead option for a rope
break
>=
>at 100 feet AGL. There is a however a highly recommended hayfield with a
>9=
>0 degree turn from the takeoff heading onto the landout final. The field
>i=
>s 100 feet lower in elevation than the departure runway, so it is
>reachable=
> if you do all the right things. For example, you need to get over the
>top=
>s of the trees on the near side of the field.
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> > So let's say the landing area is steep, say it rises 20 feet for a
200
>=
>run. Depending on when the hay was last cut, the vegetation height
ranges
>=
>from stubble to 30" of consistent grasses. The ground is likely to be
>very=
> bumpy. Boulders have been removed from this field to facilitate haying
>ma=
>chinery. There may be some dips, but no ditches and no hidden branches
or
>=
>stumps. There are power lines running down the right side of the field
>and=
> there is a two lane paved road on the other side of a ditch at the end
of
>=
>the run out. There is sufficient run out, but not much to spare. The
>fiel=
>d gets more and more level as you get closer to the road. On the far
side
>=
>of the road is a cornfield, so flying high over the road is not a good
>opti=
>on.
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> > So I want to touch down with minimum energy. My first thought is to
>fl=
>air to level flight much higher than normal, say 10 feet above the ground
>a=
>fter the flair, pull the stick back gradually to bleed off speed until
the
>=
>ground comes to meet my level flight. Careful not to stall prematurely
of
>=
>course.
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> > OR do I flair at a normal height and ride the ground effect uphill?
I
>=
>imagine that I might fly into the slope and touch down with more energy
>tha=
>n I would like and possibly do a ground loop or otherwise damage the
>glider=
> (and/or my body). The field may tilt a bit left to right.
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> > The fact that the field is tilting up steeply in front of me is going
>t=
>o distort my perception and that is the other reason that I'm inclined to
>f=
>lair deliberately high. That gives me more time to see what is happening
>a=
>nd adjust.
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> > Opinions and suggestions? I'm thinking about a particular field, but
>I=
>'d kinda like to know in general how to approach this type of field
>because=
> level fields are rare in my area.
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> > I will of course discuss this with knowledgable people at my club,
but
>=
>I'd like to think about it and get some ideas before I bring it up at the
>a=
>irport.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I had a very rough landing in France in a security field that was
>actuall=
>y an altiport. An altiport is on a steep uphill field or runway. Mine
>was=
> a rough field, but the only know field to safely land withing 20
>kilometer=
>s. Such is the flying in the French Alps.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Luckily, all I did was twist the landing gear and blow the tire, and
>scra=
>pe the gel coat off the bottom of my glider (as well as demoralize my
ego)
>=
>from my hard impact. I came to an abrupt stop 100 yards short of where I
>t=
>hought I would first touch down and roll onward. I had landing flaps
>confi=
>guration, which was an error for upslope landing. When I pulled hard to
>fl=
>air uphill, I had only drag and no lift from the wings. You need some
>good=
> L over D to flair uphill. To say the least, I had every difficulty
>gettin=
>g the glider back into the trailer without functioning wheel gear and not
>g=
>etting the landing gear door closed. :(
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> If I had to do it again, I would go into the flair with at least 65
>knots=
> with only minimal positive flap setting and aim farther down the field
>tha=
>n my gut instinct would tell me. (Psychologically, your senses will tell
>y=
>ou otherwise.) Because of the illusion that you are driving into the
>groun=
>d with too much speed, actually you do not have enough airspeed, and you
>ar=
>e actually flying straight into the slope of the hill, you will touch
>befor=
>e you ever intended without enough airspeed to pull up abruptly. You will
>a=
>ctually have to flair "much higher" than your perceptions advises you to.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> If you fly in rolling hill territory or in tall mountain territory, you
>m=
>ust make study of this type of landing because you will eventually have
to
>=
>do it. Even Klaus Ohlmann, the world's best mountain gliding expert, has
>de=
>stroyed an Nimbus 2DM (and other gliders) landing at an altiport uphill.
>Ta=
>ke note of how difficult this can be for experts with tens of thousands
of
>=
>mountain gliding experience.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Happy mountain soaring, it is extremely rewarding with the challenge
and
>=
>the joy of the views. Nothing better in this life experience.
>
>Lleweni Parc (AKA Looney Park). Final at 75kts minimum over the river to
>r=
>ound out and land uphill and stop at the launch point. Much steeper than
>t=
>he 10/1 described by the OP.
>
>Frank Whiteley
>

[son_of_flubber]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 1:38:49 PM UTC-4, Glen Douglas wrote:
> Having done this in a Capstan, landed OK, but as it had no wheelbrake it
>
> rolled backwards at 25 kph, down the hill and into the gatepost.

Ouch! especially after clearing the same fence on final.

What does one do with a bicycle style handbrake that requires constant squeezing? Maybe wrap a bungee around the squeeze handle before exiting the cockpit?

How well do ground loops work going backwards at low speed?

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:09:00 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 1:38:49 PM UTC-4, Glen Douglas wrote:
>
> > Having done this in a Capstan, landed OK, but as it had no wheelbrake it
>
> >
>
> > rolled backwards at 25 kph, down the hill and into the gatepost.
>
>
>
> Ouch! especially after clearing the same fence on final.
>
>
>
> What does one do with a bicycle style handbrake that requires constant squeezing? Maybe wrap a bungee around the squeeze handle before exiting the cockpit?
>
>
>
> How well do ground loops work going backwards at low speed?

Another great story somewhere in the ACA Archives about a pilot who landed a 1-26 up against the side of a steep ridge. He was able to get out quickly and held the glider with the straps while he turned it sideways. Then gathered a bunch of large rocks to half-fill the cockpit and to chock the wheels. More to it involving people coming upon the "wrecked airplane" and finding only a cockpit full of rocks. Will have to dust that one off...

[Glen Douglas]

Groundloop whilst still moving forward, None of the controls work when you
are going backwards

We had no little choice in fields, were cought in the hills with a squall
cutting us off from our chosen field, leaving us with the alternative
option. The landing was fine until we started going backwards, and didn't
have time to get out and turn the glider by the wing

Glen

chiiAt 21:19 11 June 2013, Papa3 wrote:
>On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:09:00 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 1:38:49 PM UTC-4, Glen Douglas wrote:
>>=20
>> > Having done this in a Capstan, landed OK, but as it had no wheelbrake
>i=
>t
>>=20
>> >=20
>>=20
>> > rolled backwards at 25 kph, down the hill and into the gatepost.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Ouch! especially after clearing the same fence on final.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> What does one do with a bicycle style handbrake that requires constant
>sq=
>ueezing? Maybe wrap a bungee around the squeeze handle before exiting
the
>=
>cockpit?
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> How well do ground loops work going backwards at low speed?
>
>Another great story somewhere in the ACA Archives about a pilot who
landed
>=
>a 1-26 up against the side of a steep ridge. He was able to get out
>quickl=
>y and held the glider with the straps while he turned it sideways. Then
>ga=
>thered a bunch of large rocks to half-fill the cockpit and to chock the
>whe=
>els. More to it involving people coming upon the "wrecked airplane" and
>f=
>inding only a cockpit full of rocks. Will have to dust that one off...
>

[glidergeek]

Like this?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=p7-QbI9Qzeg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dp7-QbI9Qzeg

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

I was taught that the theory was to approach at higher than usual
speed (you need extra energy to rotate enough to point upwards),
round out to fly parallel to the sloping ground just above it, and do
a normal held-off landing. Certainly not to fly it on. The theory was
that the held-off landing phased would be very short because of
energy loss flying upwards. It works.

First time I did it was when flying in Germany, caught out in hills,
and saw a gliding club whose site was on the side of a hill. I was
able to ridge soar for a bit and watch them. They all took off by
winch downhill and landed uphill. When I landed there, I did the
same. Only mistakes I made were too slow on approach (60-6t5
knots in a Ka6E) and to overestimate how little space I needed for
the uphill hold-off phase – I landed in their undershoot, which was a
bit rough. An even higher approach speed would have been better.

I have since landed uphill on one or two other occasions, always
with extra approach speed.

One last thing – if you have gone in too fast (unlikely, but there is
that fear), as always it is better to hit the far hedge slowly and on
the ground than to thump in hard at flying speed and damage your
back. And better to ground loop to avoid the hedge at the end than
to go straight into it – hedges have some stiff trunks in them, and
somebody I know had two badly broken legs doing that.

Chris N

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:51:23 AM UTC-4, Glidergeek wrote:
> Like this?
>
> http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=p7-QbI9Qzeg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dp7-QbI9Qzeg

That link works on smartphones.

This link will work for an old style laptop or desktop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7-QbI9Qzeg