Subaru Outback...how well does it tow a sailplane trailer? [Archive]

Andrzej Kobus

June 16th 13, 02:25 AM

On Jun 15, 8:51*pm, wrote:
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
> If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences and detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>
> Thanks
>
> ben

My 2008 Outback XT is very stable and very powerful. The 2010 or newer
is not as good. I tested a couple and I decided to keep mine until it
gives up. The newer models have more body roll. They are not as stiff
as the older models. It is much softer suspension. I hear the old
engines and transmissions are going to be back in the Forrester. Maybe
suspension is going to be stiffer too. There is always after market
for suspension changes.

Craig R.

June 16th 13, 04:29 AM

Contact Peter Deane. He has used one for years.

Eric Greenwell[_4_]

June 16th 13, 05:55 AM

wrote, On 6/15/2013 5:51 PM:
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a
> sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
> If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences
> and detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.

There can be huge differences between sailplane trailers, so
first, tell us what you are towing: trailer model, and overall weight
and length.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

June 16th 13, 10:39 AM

Great car, fun to drive. Had a 2000 Outback 2.5l w/ manual gearbox. In the SW USA: for example mountain passes of up to 8000' and grades of 6% on the freeway, temperatures of over 100F possible in the summer.
The Outback towed:
> LS-6 in Cobra perfectly.
> ASW27 in Cobra perfectly.
> Nimbus 3 in Pfeiffer extremely well (better than Chevy Tahoe V8 or Holden Commodore V6), but only after replacing the trailer axle with one having functional brakes.
> ASH26E in Cobra extremely well. BUT this heavy trailer tore up the viscous coupler in the AWD.
If it wasn't for the viscous coupler being unchanged in later and even more powerful models, I'd have bought another Outback.
Get the extended warranty if only for the AWD and the infamous head gaskets. (blew the head gaskets twice in mine)
Now waiting for the popular Audi Allroad 2.0l TDI to be brought into the USA, "only" twice the price of the Outback.
Jim

noel.wade

June 16th 13, 04:41 PM

I used an Impreza WRX for a couple of years and it worked great!

--Noel

Dan Marotta

June 16th 13, 04:58 PM

I've used my wife's Subaru Outback, 3.6 liter, flat six, auto trans, to tow
my LAK-17a in its LAK-T5 trailer from TSA (Midlothian, TX) to Moriarty, NM
and twice from Moriarty to Jean, NV and back.

So long as the trailer is properly loaded, it tows just fine. Comparing it
to my Ford Edge which, being heavier, tows a bit better, the Subaru gets
much better gas mileage than the Ford (towing or not).

It won't carry as much as one of the giant SUVs but, still, I would
recommend the Subaru.

> wrote in message
...
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a
> sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
> If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences and
> detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>
> Thanks
>
> ben
>
>

Roy Clark, \B6\

June 16th 13, 05:04 PM

Have used a 1998 Outback (auto, 2.5L 165hp)for many years, pulling a DG-300 in Komet trailer over mountain passes without difficulty.

rlovinggood

June 16th 13, 06:51 PM

Car: 2005 Forester 4-speed automatic with 2.5l 4 cylinder engine.
Rated to tow 2,400 lb with 200 lb tongue weight, if the trailer has brakes. Max trailer wt drops to 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes.

Trailer: Swan
Glider: LS1
Trailer has brakes
Loaded Trailer weight: 2,040 lbs (from truck scales at a truck stop)
Loaded Tongue weight: 180 lbs

The car tows the glider just fine. Don't expect neck-snapping acceleration (either with or without the trailer. This is the non-turbocharged version of the Forester)

While the trailer's weight is below the max towing limit, I still had a transmission cooler installed. Was it necessary? Probably not, but I did it anyway.

Towing has been mainly in the North Carolina/South Carolina/Georgia area and sometimes into the mountains. Mostly in the piedmont area where there are some hills that slow me down. I just pull the transmission handle into 3rd and usually can hold 50 mph up the steeper grades. The transmission can't be shifted out of the "torque converter lock-up" and leaving it in fourth on the steeper hills forces the tranny to shift into and out of the "lock-up" and into and out of third. So, for those short sections of steeper climbs, pulling the lever into third works just fine. And I'm usually in no hurry to get anywhere. Heck, y'all know that by looking at the score sheets....

The six cylinder in the Outback should do just fine. Just don't tow heavier than recommended and don't tow with a tongue weight heavier than recommended. I've got a diploma from School of Hard Knocks about those two items....

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina

Tony[_5_]

June 17th 13, 05:34 AM

On Sunday, June 16, 2013 10:58:27 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I've used my wife's Subaru Outback, 3.6 liter, flat six, auto trans, to tow
>
> my LAK-17a in its LAK-T5 trailer from TSA (Midlothian, TX) to Moriarty, NM
>
> and twice from Moriarty to Jean, NV and back.
>
>
>
> So long as the trailer is properly loaded, it tows just fine. Comparing it
>
> to my Ford Edge which, being heavier, tows a bit better, the Subaru gets
>
> much better gas mileage than the Ford (towing or not).
>
>
>
> It won't carry as much as one of the giant SUVs but, still, I would
>
> recommend the Subaru.
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a
>
> > sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
> >
>
> > If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences and
>
> > detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks
>
> >
>
> > ben
>
> >
>
> >

Dan - what year Outback does your wife have?

cuflyer

June 17th 13, 03:52 PM

Dan Daly[_2_]

June 17th 13, 05:18 PM

On Jun 15, 8:51*pm, wrote:
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
> If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences and detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>
> Thanks
>
> ben

I built karma at the Ridge retrieving a friend's SZD59 from field near
Nisbet recently. His car is an Outback 3.6l v6, auto trans, Avionic
trailer. Hilly in Eastern PA. No issues either with the trailer
empty outbound or full on the return - 70 odd miles each way. Trailer
was solid as a rock, with ridge winds (cross-wind - though not enough
to keep him up) blowing. If they get a diesel engine, I'd buy one,
when my Jetta TDI dies of old age. Quieter and rides better than the
Jetta; the leather's nice too...

Dan Marotta

June 17th 13, 05:28 PM

Sorry for not mentioning - it's a 2010.

"Tony" > wrote in message
...
> On Sunday, June 16, 2013 10:58:27 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I've used my wife's Subaru Outback, 3.6 liter, flat six, auto trans, to
>> tow
>>
>> my LAK-17a in its LAK-T5 trailer from TSA (Midlothian, TX) to Moriarty,
>> NM
>>
>> and twice from Moriarty to Jean, NV and back.
>>
>>
>>
>> So long as the trailer is properly loaded, it tows just fine. Comparing
>> it
>>
>> to my Ford Edge which, being heavier, tows a bit better, the Subaru gets
>>
>> much better gas mileage than the Ford (towing or not).
>>
>>
>>
>> It won't carry as much as one of the giant SUVs but, still, I would
>>
>> recommend the Subaru.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a
>>
>> > sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences
>> > and
>>
>> > detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Thanks
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ben
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>
> Dan - what year Outback does your wife have?

[email protected]

June 17th 13, 08:56 PM

On Saturday, June 15, 2013 8:51:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
>
>
> If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences and detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> ben

i love my 99' legacy outback. its a great all around car that gets everything i need accomplished. in the trailer towing department (discus CS) (ventus2bx) it hasn't been amazing, but did fine. it has a tendancy to sway a little at 67 or 68mph. not incredibly stable but gets the job done. back in 2004 i towed a 27 from new york to uvalde. It was a different 99 than the one i currently have, but the feedback was about the same.

i recommend it but there are definitely better vehicles out there. maybe a newer one is a bit better?

plantain

June 17th 13, 10:12 PM

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with regards to whether a car is powerful enough to tow a glider trailer.

I use a 1.4L non-turbo Peugeot 206 from '99 in Europe which handles my cobra trailer without any trouble, through the mountains or on the flat. The same car has previously towed a Janus CM Germany->Italy and back as well. Most Europeans seem to make do with similar small cars. Economy is 8-10L/100k.

More relevant to your question though, in Aus I use an Impreza WRX (not unlike the outback, shorter wheelbase) that barely notices the trailer on the back. Makes overtaking road trains a much less hair raising experience.

On Sunday, June 16, 2013 10:21:37 AM UTC+9:30, wrote:
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
>
>
> If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences and detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> ben

Craig R.

June 18th 13, 12:53 AM

On Monday, June 17, 2013 2:12:36 PM UTC-7, plantain wrote:
> I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with regards to whether a car is powerful enough to tow a glider trailer.

> I use a 1.4L non-turbo Peugeot 206 from '99 in Europe which handles my cobra trailer without any trouble, through the mountains or on the flat. The same car has previously towed a Janus CM Germany->Italy and back as well. Most Europeans seem to make do with similar small cars. Economy is 8-10L/100k.

> > ben

Ben, We understand that Europeans commonly use smaller vehicles for towing gliders. However, the main issue between European and US is that we can drive 1500 kilometers or (much) more to a contest. I know that many in Europe complain bitterly at towing 800 kilometers or less. Having a more powerful and longer vehicle makes for easier driving conditions at freeway speeds and mountain situations.
Craig R.

Steve Hill[_2_]

June 18th 13, 01:02 PM

On Jun 15, 6:51*pm, wrote:
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
> If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences and detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>
> Thanks
>
> ben

I have a 2003 Subaru Baja AWD 2.5L with manual tranny. It tows my
DG-600 in a Cobra trailer just fine on the pavement. I once used it
to retrieve a friend who landed in a typical fallow field. I was able
to pull his empty Cobra tailer one combined car/trailer length into
the soft dirt of the field before it bogged down and refused to move
any further. Luckily, the farmer came along with a real truck and we
were able to use it to position the trailer to load the Discus glider
and tow it to hard ground. After that incident I realized that the
Baja would be fine for travel on pavement but would never work for the
typical terrain I might encounter on a land out. I now use a 2010 4WD
Toyota 4runner 4L V6 with automatic transmission.

tstock

June 23rd 13, 01:26 AM

On Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:51:37 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>

I have a Subaru Forester, 2010 Manual. I used it to tow my Schweizer 1-26 on an open trailer from New Mexico to Florida. The wind was crazy and the climbs and descents fairly steep at times. I had no problems at all.

The only issue I've found is with having a Manual Transmission... if you were pulling something heavy (like a small boat) up a ramp or stuck in the mud from a stop, you will be smoking the clutch, so an Automatic would be the better choice if you are landing out often.

Aside from that the AWD is fantastic. I love my Subaru, the way it handles is amazing especially in heavy rain.

One more thing worth mentioning... with AWD, if you need to replace a tire, you must replace all four to ensure they are all the same diameter or you will wear out the differentials prematurely.

Tom

ASM

June 23rd 13, 05:14 PM

I have 2013 Subaru Outback 2.5 liter. The only thing I can say is that the continuously variable transmission is rather touchy, so, you have to be gentle with throttle pedal. Otherwise it is very nice car. Jacek, Pasco, WA

Roger Worden[_2_]

June 24th 13, 06:21 AM

I tested my 2010 Outback 3.6 automatic with a boxy metal trailer we use to hold our PW5. I just went a couple miles on a freeway and was getting blown around a lot by passing trucks. I've done a lot of towing and this felt quite unsafe. However, with a modern, low-profile glider trailer it should be fine. Before buying my OB, I spoke with a fellow who tows a Sparrowhawk very nicely, but then that's the extreme low end of the scale. So your results would be somewhere in between... it would be great if you could test your trailer with a friend's OB.

[email protected]

June 24th 13, 11:07 PM

On Saturday, June 15, 2013 8:51:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I'm curious how a late model Subaru Outback handles the load of a sailplane trailer. I'm looking at a 3.6 liter V6 with auto trans.
>
>
>
> If you use an Outback as a tow vehicle, please share your experiences and detail the motor size, transmission, and towing terrain.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> ben

I have a 2011 Outback with the 4 cyl engine towing a 2001 Cobra Trailer with a Hph 304 CZ inside. It tows fine up to 60 mph. After that it becomes unstable with violent side to side excursions. So I just tow at 55 mph. Interestingly, the trailer did the same thing while being towed by a 1994 Subaru Legacy and a 2004 Subaru Forester. I tried adding weight to the front end of the trailer to no avail.

tstock

June 25th 13, 04:45 AM

Interesting, I towed my glider up to 80mph with my subaru forester 4cyl, in fairly strong winds.

Sounds like the axle may need to be moved on the trailer.

tom

> I have a 2011 Outback with the 4 cyl engine towing a 2001 Cobra Trailer with a Hph 304 CZ inside. It tows fine up to 60 mph. After that it becomes unstable with violent side to side excursions. So I just tow at 55 mph. Interestingly, the trailer did the same thing while being towed by a 1994 Subaru Legacy and a 2004 Subaru Forester. I tried adding weight to the front end of the trailer to no avail.

Papa3[_2_]

June 25th 13, 03:34 PM

On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:45:35 PM UTC-4, tstock wrote:
> Interesting, I towed my glider up to 80mph with my subaru forester 4cyl, in fairly strong winds.
>
>
>
> Sounds like the axle may need to be moved on the trailer.
>
>
> tom
>
> > I have a 2011 Outback with the 4 cyl engine towing a 2001 Cobra Trailer with a Hph 304 CZ inside. It tows fine up to 60 mph. After that it becomes unstable with violent side to side excursions. So I just tow at 55 mph. Interestingly, the trailer did the same thing while being towed by a 1994 Subaru Legacy and a 2004 Subaru Forester. I tried adding weight to the front end of the trailer to no avail.

Yeah, that sounds like something more than "just" a tow vehicle problem. I use my 2010 VW Sportwagen TDI (front-wheel drive only with helper airbags for the rear coil springs) and it tows an LS8 in a modern Anschau/Komet trailer fine up to 65mph. It's lighter, slightly smaller, and less stiffly sprung than the Outback.

P3

[email protected]

June 25th 13, 06:40 PM

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:34:07 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:45:35 PM UTC-4, tstock wrote:
>
> > Interesting, I towed my glider up to 80mph with my subaru forester 4cyl, in fairly strong winds.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Sounds like the axle may need to be moved on the trailer.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > tom
>
> >
>
> > > I have a 2011 Outback with the 4 cyl engine towing a 2001 Cobra Trailer with a Hph 304 CZ inside. It tows fine up to 60 mph. After that it becomes unstable with violent side to side excursions. So I just tow at 55 mph.. Interestingly, the trailer did the same thing while being towed by a 1994 Subaru Legacy and a 2004 Subaru Forester. I tried adding weight to the front end of the trailer to no avail.
>
>
>
> Yeah, that sounds like something more than "just" a tow vehicle problem. I use my 2010 VW Sportwagen TDI (front-wheel drive only with helper airbags for the rear coil springs) and it tows an LS8 in a modern Anschau/Komet trailer fine up to 65mph. It's lighter, slightly smaller, and less stiffly sprung than the Outback.
>
>
>
> P3

Eric,
What mileage do you get with your Diesel when towing the LS8?

lynn

June 25th 13, 06:48 PM

lynn

June 25th 13, 06:51 PM

The swaying could be due to worn pins/fasteners at or near the axle. I had a PIK trailer with this problem where the two tow rails bolted to the axle. When I removed the bolts and reamed out the holes and installed the next larger size bolts, the problem went away.

Papa3[_2_]

June 25th 13, 07:15 PM

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:40:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:34:07 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
>
> > Yeah, that sounds like something more than "just" a tow vehicle problem.. I use my 2010 VW Sportwagen TDI (front-wheel drive only with helper airbags for the rear coil springs) and it tows an LS8 in a modern Anschau/Komet trailer fine up to 65mph. It's lighter, slightly smaller, and less stiffly sprung than the Outback.
>
>
> Eric,
>
> What mileage do you get with your Diesel when towing the LS8?

Without the trailer I typically average low 40mpg range. The trailer knocks off between 6-10 mpg depending on terrain.

I don't use this car for contests or longer trips, while it has plenty of room and torque, it is getting on to maxing out the gross weight limits with any amount of gear and the trailer. It's great for trips to local airports and the occasional retrieve (not that I ever land out).

P3

[email protected]

June 25th 13, 10:17 PM

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:15:02 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:40:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:34:07 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Yeah, that sounds like something more than "just" a tow vehicle problem. I use my 2010 VW Sportwagen TDI (front-wheel drive only with helper airbags for the rear coil springs) and it tows an LS8 in a modern Anschau/Komet trailer fine up to 65mph. It's lighter, slightly smaller, and less stiffly sprung than the Outback.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Eric,
>
> >
>
> > What mileage do you get with your Diesel when towing the LS8?
>
>
>
> Without the trailer I typically average low 40mpg range. The trailer knocks off between 6-10 mpg depending on terrain.
>
>
>
> I don't use this car for contests or longer trips, while it has plenty of room and torque, it is getting on to maxing out the gross weight limits with any amount of gear and the trailer. It's great for trips to local airports and the occasional retrieve (not that I ever land out).
>
>
>
> P3

I use a 2012 VW TDI Sportwagen to tow a heavy Cobra with a Ventus 2CX (two sets of tips, lots of spares, etc.). Went from New England to South Carolina without any problems, average 30mpg at 70mph. Didn't sway a single time in the whole trip (wind, passing trucks, etc.) Great handling car. Have to add the airbags. What brand did you install P3?

Juan
Z8

Papa3[_2_]

June 26th 13, 03:14 AM

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:17:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:15:02 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:

>
> I use a 2012 VW TDI Sportwagen to tow a heavy Cobra with a Ventus 2CX (two sets of tips, lots of spares, etc.). Went from New England to South Carolina without any problems, average 30mpg at 70mph. Didn't sway a single time in the whole trip (wind, passing trucks, etc.) Great handling car. Have to add the airbags. What brand did you install P3?
>
> Juan
>
> Z8

Firestone coil-rite load levelers from eTrailer.

[email protected]

June 26th 13, 11:49 AM

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:14:19 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:17:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:15:02 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> > I use a 2012 VW TDI Sportwagen to tow a heavy Cobra with a Ventus 2CX (two sets of tips, lots of spares, etc.). Went from New England to South Carolina without any problems, average 30mpg at 70mph. Didn't sway a single time in the whole trip (wind, passing trucks, etc.) Great handling car. Have to add the airbags. What brand did you install P3?
>
> >
>
> > Juan
>
> >
>
> > Z8
>
>
>
> Firestone coil-rite load levelers from eTrailer.

Are your TDIs manual or automatic transmission?

Papa3[_2_]

June 26th 13, 04:11 PM

On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:49:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:14:19 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
>
>
>
> Are your TDIs manual or automatic transmission?

Automatic in my case.

Papa3[_2_]

June 26th 13, 04:26 PM

On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:11:10 AM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:49:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:

>
> > Are your TDIs manual or automatic transmission?
>
>
>
> Automatic in my case.

Funny story. This is my third VW Diesel. The first was an early 1980s MK1 Rabbit (Golf) which churned out a whopping 50hp or so of pure, unadulterated power. It was at serious risk of being overtaken on the road by bicycles. However, when I bought it used as my first car, it already had a tow hitch. Wishful thinking?

In 1988, John Campbell arranged for me to fly my first race at Dannsville. I just had to drive out to Ridge Soaring to pick up the 1-36 on a Gherlein trailer. The direct route between Ridge Soaring and Dannsville goes through the Endless Mountains region (not mountains by Alps or Rockies standards - more like hills). But, with only 50hp and 2,000 lbs of steel and aluminum dragging along behind it, the poor little Rabbit was maxed out. I was often down in second gear struggling to maintain 20mph on some of the steeper grades. We made it (eventually), but that was the end of towing with my first diesel. It began a long series of car buys that were driven by the need to tow glider trailers.

P3

[email protected]

June 26th 13, 05:11 PM

On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:49:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:14:19 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:17:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:15:02 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I use a 2012 VW TDI Sportwagen to tow a heavy Cobra with a Ventus 2CX (two sets of tips, lots of spares, etc.). Went from New England to South Carolina without any problems, average 30mpg at 70mph. Didn't sway a single time in the whole trip (wind, passing trucks, etc.) Great handling car. Have to add the airbags. What brand did you install P3?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Juan
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Z8
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Firestone coil-rite load levelers from eTrailer.
>
>
>
> Are your TDIs manual or automatic transmission?

Automatic too.