172S Weight and Balance Question

[David J]

INFO:
Taking a 2 hour trip with two on board in 172S. We are 280 lb each.(560)
Fuel 53 gal at (318lbs) a little luggage 50 to 75 pounds. 2002 172S Empty
Weight (1720) after figuring W&B total weight is 2673 or 123 lbs over 2550
max takeoff and landing weight. Upon arrival I will be at or near landing
weight after fuel burn. I can ask FBO to unload 20 gallons of fuel or so at
an extra expense of $2.72 a gallon and get the numbers right.

QUESTION:
Can I safely/legally takeoff 4000 foot runway, 60 air temp elevation 400'
180hp or should I just bite the bullet and pay for the extra fuel to be
unloaded as opposed to taking a chance. Please be nice to me I know I need
to loose weight. I do want to be safe just don't have enough expierience to
make this judgement call without a little help from the expierience in this
group.

David J
PP-ASEL

[Peter Duniho]

"David J" > wrote in message
.. .
> [...]
> Can I safely/legally takeoff 4000 foot runway, 60 air temp elevation 400'
> 180hp or should I just bite the bullet and pay for the extra fuel to be
> unloaded as opposed to taking a chance.

Sounds to me like your instructor should have done a better job instilling
some basic judgment skills during your training.

It is certainly not legal to take off over weight, nor to land over weight.
As for whether it's safe, that depends. But if you don't have the
experience to answer the question yourself, I'd say it's a sure bet it's not
safe for YOU to do so. It's generally not safe for anyone, and the accident
database is filled with pilots who misloaded their aircraft.

As for the cost of unloading fuel, even if you did have to pay another $55,
so what? That's small potatoes compared to the potential costs on not
unloading fuel. But you shouldn't have to. Just inform the FBO in advance
of your need, and they will simply refrain from topping off the tanks prior
to your use of the airplane. If the FBO won't do this, you need to find an
FBO that will; any respectable, safety-oriented FBO provides this service at
no additional charge.

Pete

[G.R. Patterson III]

David J wrote:
>
> Can I safely/legally takeoff 4000 foot runway, 60 air temp elevation 400'
> 180hp or should I just bite the bullet and pay for the extra fuel to be
> unloaded as opposed to taking a chance.

Overloading an aircraft increases the takeoff distance and reduces the rate of
climb. That will reduce safety any way you look at it. Will the plane do it?
Almost certainly. Can you do it legally? Nope.

Personally, I would try to find a way to take the plane up for about 2.5 hours
a day or so before this trip and fly the gas off.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[Cockpit Colin]

I'm also betting you'd find yourself without insurance if there was an
incident.


"David J" > wrote in message
.. .
> INFO:
> Taking a 2 hour trip with two on board in 172S. We are 280 lb each.(560)
> Fuel 53 gal at (318lbs) a little luggage 50 to 75 pounds. 2002 172S Empty
> Weight (1720) after figuring W&B total weight is 2673 or 123 lbs over 2550
> max takeoff and landing weight. Upon arrival I will be at or near landing
> weight after fuel burn. I can ask FBO to unload 20 gallons of fuel or so
at
> an extra expense of $2.72 a gallon and get the numbers right.
>
> QUESTION:
> Can I safely/legally takeoff 4000 foot runway, 60 air temp elevation 400'
> 180hp or should I just bite the bullet and pay for the extra fuel to be
> unloaded as opposed to taking a chance. Please be nice to me I know I
need
> to loose weight. I do want to be safe just don't have enough expierience
to
> make this judgement call without a little help from the expierience in
this
> group.
>
> David J
> PP-ASEL
>
>

[CFLav8r]

> Taking a 2 hour trip with two on board in 172S. We are 280 lb each.(560)
> Fuel 53 gal at (318lbs) a little luggage 50 to 75 pounds. 2002 172S Empty
> Weight (1720) after figuring W&B total weight is 2673 or 123 lbs over 2550
> max takeoff and landing weight.
> David J
> PP-ASEL
>
David,
If the weight is an ongoing issue, I would get checked out in an aircraft
capable of
handling it.
Have you looked into a C182?

David (KORL)

[Rick Durden]

David,

I'm also betting you'd find yourself without insurance if there was
an
> incident.

And your basis for that statement?

Aviation insurance policies no longer deny coverage for violation of
FARs. They used to try to do so, but in virtually every accident
someone can point out a violation, even it's only the "careless and
reckless" catch-all, so that language was pulled out of the policies.

All the best,
Rick


>
>
> "David J" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > INFO:
> > Taking a 2 hour trip with two on board in 172S. We are 280 lb each.(560)
> > Fuel 53 gal at (318lbs) a little luggage 50 to 75 pounds. 2002 172S Empty
> > Weight (1720) after figuring W&B total weight is 2673 or 123 lbs over 2550
> > max takeoff and landing weight. Upon arrival I will be at or near landing
> > weight after fuel burn. I can ask FBO to unload 20 gallons of fuel or so
> at
> > an extra expense of $2.72 a gallon and get the numbers right.
> >
> > QUESTION:
> > Can I safely/legally takeoff 4000 foot runway, 60 air temp elevation 400'
> > 180hp or should I just bite the bullet and pay for the extra fuel to be
> > unloaded as opposed to taking a chance. Please be nice to me I know I
> need
> > to loose weight. I do want to be safe just don't have enough expierience
> to
> > make this judgement call without a little help from the expierience in
> this
> > group.
> >
> > David J
> > PP-ASEL
> >
> >

[Peter Duniho]

"Rick Durden" > wrote in message
m...
> > I'm also betting you'd find yourself without insurance if there was
> > an incident.
>
> And your basis for that statement?
>
> Aviation insurance policies no longer deny coverage for violation of
> FARs.

They do? You should tell my insurance carrier that. Certain violations of
the FARs DO invalidate my policy.

Besides, an insurance policy need not have a general provision about FAR
violations. It still would not be all that surprising to find a policy that
stipulates that the plane be flown within its airworthiness certificate
(including not being flown overweight). Nothing in the statement you're
attempting to rebut said anything whatsoever about the policy having a
general provision about FAR violations.

When you've read every single insurance policy in existence, then you might
feel free to make blanket generalizations like that. Until then, you might
want to consider refraining from suggesting people can feel free to fly
their aircraft overweight without worrying about being covered by their
policy. Also, in the meantime, you might make a better effort to actually
read statements you're trying to argue against.

Pete

[David J]

Thanks for all of the responses. The FBO did not have the equipment so I
bought a couple of cans from the old Walmart and we siphoned fuel out. It
was to late to ask them not to top off tanks. Made the flight just fine I
just wanted to know if there was a fudge factor built into the weight and
balance and was not sure about the legal aspects.

Thank You
"David J" > wrote in message
.. .
> INFO:
> Taking a 2 hour trip with two on board in 172S. We are 280 lb each.(560)
> Fuel 53 gal at (318lbs) a little luggage 50 to 75 pounds. 2002 172S Empty
> Weight (1720) after figuring W&B total weight is 2673 or 123 lbs over 2550
> max takeoff and landing weight. Upon arrival I will be at or near landing
> weight after fuel burn. I can ask FBO to unload 20 gallons of fuel or so
at
> an extra expense of $2.72 a gallon and get the numbers right.
>
> QUESTION:
> Can I safely/legally takeoff 4000 foot runway, 60 air temp elevation 400'
> 180hp or should I just bite the bullet and pay for the extra fuel to be
> unloaded as opposed to taking a chance. Please be nice to me I know I
need
> to loose weight. I do want to be safe just don't have enough expierience
to
> make this judgement call without a little help from the expierience in
this
> group.
>
> David J
> PP-ASEL
>
>

[Blueskies]

The legally fly 10% over certified gross weight in Alaska...

--
Dan D.



..
"David J" > wrote in message . ..
> Thanks for all of the responses. The FBO did not have the equipment so I
> bought a couple of cans from the old Walmart and we siphoned fuel out. It
> was to late to ask them not to top off tanks. Made the flight just fine I
> just wanted to know if there was a fudge factor built into the weight and
> balance and was not sure about the legal aspects.
>
> Thank You
> "David J" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > INFO:
> > Taking a 2 hour trip with two on board in 172S. We are 280 lb each.(560)
> > Fuel 53 gal at (318lbs) a little luggage 50 to 75 pounds. 2002 172S Empty
> > Weight (1720) after figuring W&B total weight is 2673 or 123 lbs over 2550
> > max takeoff and landing weight. Upon arrival I will be at or near landing
> > weight after fuel burn. I can ask FBO to unload 20 gallons of fuel or so
> at
> > an extra expense of $2.72 a gallon and get the numbers right.
> >
> > QUESTION:
> > Can I safely/legally takeoff 4000 foot runway, 60 air temp elevation 400'
> > 180hp or should I just bite the bullet and pay for the extra fuel to be
> > unloaded as opposed to taking a chance. Please be nice to me I know I
> need
> > to loose weight. I do want to be safe just don't have enough expierience
> to
> > make this judgement call without a little help from the expierience in
> this
> > group.
> >
> > David J
> > PP-ASEL
> >
> >
>
>

[Dale]

In article >,
"Blueskies" > wrote:

> The legally fly 10% over certified gross weight in Alaska...
>

Not exactly. Some 135 operators are allowed to go 15% over with
specific approval blah, blah.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html