Hints for parents of 13 year old student pilot?

[Jay Honeck]

My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife and
I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.

Any parents out there gone through the same experience? My concerns are:

1. Training Program. His training need to be thorough, but not dull and too
"book oriented." I don't want him to burn out.

2. Structure. He's a typical 13 year old -- one minute mature, the next
minute a scatter-brain. He learns best in a structured environment, which
is something I've noticed is lacking in most FBO-based training programs.
The problem, of course, is if it's too structured it may become dull, and
then we're back to #1.

3. Frequency. Given his inability to solo for a few years, I was thinking
that weekly lessons would be plenty. I know this slows the learning
process, but that's okay for now. Or do you think he'll lose interest at
that slow of a pace?

4. Instructor. Whoever teaches him is going to have to relate to a young
teenager. Considering the young age of most of our CFIs, this may not be a
problem. Or, they may not take him seriously. Or, worse, he might not take
*them* seriously.

It's really hard for me to tell if his interest is genuinely internal, or if
it's just coming from the fact that his mother and I are pilots. We've
assumed from birth that he and his sister would one day fly, just like we
assume that they will one day drive a car and go to college, so it's not
like he's got this unusually strong, burning desire to fly. Heck, he's been
flying right seat since he was 8 years old, so it's kind of "old hat" to
him, and he, too, has always just "assumed" he would learn to fly.

But flying is serious business, and I want to make sure he becomes safe and
proficient.

Despite our aviation background, my wife and I are both on pins and needles
about this -- we want to make sure he gets off on the right foot. Any
advice from others who have gone down this road is appreciated!

Thanks,
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Eric Rood]

1) Start with sailplanes. Solo at 14 (if he is ready for it)
2) Find an instructor that is a school teacher or retired school teacher (they
will have a better understanding of the methods that will work best with a
young mind)
3) Navigation... give specific directions for the information you want. Begin
by setting him in front of the computer and walk him through the process. Walk
away and come back, ask how things are going, heap lots of praise on what a
good job he is doing, etc. When he says he has everything, sit down and explain
what you are looking for and why. If you see something that raises a flag that
you want to explore a little more, explain why and sit down at the computer
again and walk him through the source of additional information, why/what is
different and helps you in your decision process. Talk about NOTAMS, the
information they contain and why you need to know it.
Preflight and inflight...
Map reading... review the route, looking for "obstacles" (MOAs, towers,
Restricted Areas, etc), don't let him peek at the big moving map display, make
him do it the old fashion way, match the ground features with the map. Teach
him the pencil and paper math, (wind triangles) before you introduce the whiz
wheel or calculator. Work W&B/CG calculations.
Introduce tasks one at a time on different flights to avoid information
overload. Back off at the first sign of frustration.

Come to think of it, Margie would make a really good instructor for your needs.
She already knows this stuff. She could write a sylabus.

[Dudley Henriques]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:IyC7c.58287$_w.912977@attbi_s53...
> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife
and
> I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.
>
> Any parents out there gone through the same experience? My concerns are:
>
> 1. Training Program. His training need to be thorough, but not dull and
too
> "book oriented." I don't want him to burn out.
>
> 2. Structure. He's a typical 13 year old -- one minute mature, the next
> minute a scatter-brain. He learns best in a structured environment, which
> is something I've noticed is lacking in most FBO-based training programs.
> The problem, of course, is if it's too structured it may become dull, and
> then we're back to #1.
>
> 3. Frequency. Given his inability to solo for a few years, I was thinking
> that weekly lessons would be plenty. I know this slows the learning
> process, but that's okay for now. Or do you think he'll lose interest at
> that slow of a pace?
>
> 4. Instructor. Whoever teaches him is going to have to relate to a young
> teenager. Considering the young age of most of our CFIs, this may not be
a
> problem. Or, they may not take him seriously. Or, worse, he might not
take
> *them* seriously.
>
> It's really hard for me to tell if his interest is genuinely internal, or
if
> it's just coming from the fact that his mother and I are pilots. We've
> assumed from birth that he and his sister would one day fly, just like we
> assume that they will one day drive a car and go to college, so it's not
> like he's got this unusually strong, burning desire to fly. Heck, he's
been
> flying right seat since he was 8 years old, so it's kind of "old hat" to
> him, and he, too, has always just "assumed" he would learn to fly.
>
> But flying is serious business, and I want to make sure he becomes safe
and
> proficient.
>
> Despite our aviation background, my wife and I are both on pins and
needles
> about this -- we want to make sure he gets off on the right foot. Any
> advice from others who have gone down this road is appreciated!
>
> Thanks,

I've been through this both as a youngster myself, (see Reader's Digest
April 1985 "A Little Help From A Friend" ) and with parents who have
consulted with me through the years on this issue as it relates to teaching
their youngsters to fly.
It's not really a complex question, but it deserves a great deal of thought.
The first thing I've always addressed with the parents is the issue of
motivation. This can be a problem, especially if the parents are active in
the aviation community as both of you are. The issue needs to be viewed from
outside the box. You have to take yourselves and your influence out of the
equation and view the youngster's motivation completely as a separate
entity. This is extremely important, as it's completely normal for a young
person to want to please their parents by emulating and indeed expanding on
the parents interests. This can lead to trouble down the line if the
youngster goes into the program with this incentive, as it's a negative
incentive as far as flying is concerned. It's not a guaranteed major hit on
the negative side, but it could be a serious problem if the youngster is
intelligent; learns the rote functions; but is harboring some deep seated
negative issues or fears about flying. I only mention this to point you in a
direction that ended up with you being absolutely certain that all the
incentives and motivation involved are positive. Once this is done, and
you're sure he's positive instead of "wanting to please" the rest is easy.
For a 13 year old with the obvious experience your youngster would have
already gained through exposure to both of you, I would suggest an easing
into a structured program gradually rather than a sudden rush into
programmed training. Once you are satisfied that the motivation is positive
on it's own merits, I'd simply upgrade the way you approach the subject with
the "prospective student" while talking about flying, and when you are in
the air together. Start dealing with the issue more seriously and expect a
certain level of performance in return. Don't go overboard, but start
dealing with the subject more seriously with the youngster. While you're
doing this, I'd suggest looking around, if you haven't already done so, for
the best CFI you can find. Then bring this equation together and turn it
loose. Let the CFI deal with when to get into the structured end of things.
I'd suggest laying off the formal ground school for awhile. The ideal time
to get into that would be AFTER the youngster has experienced first hand
his/her OWN ABILITY to handle an airplane in various situations not
experienced before. It will be here that the interest level will accommodate
the comparatively boring but necessary ground school training. Also, the
ground school training should be timed so that it's completed just about
where it would be in a normal training cycle leading to the PPL check ride,
and that in this case will mean a short waiting period :-) I totally agree
with your reasoning on burn out. Also, the ground school training has to be
fresh, so it's best not to enter into it early just to get it out of the
way.
So there are two reasons to hold off on it right there.
Basically Jay, I'd just continue with what you're no doubt already doing.
Just up the expectation level like I said. The important thing is to nail
that motivation issue NOW!! You want to make absolutely sure that this kid
WANTS to learn to fly and isn't doing it for any other reason!!! I can't
stress enough the importance of this single issue.
Best of luck. I have a feeling you and your wife are on top of this already
and don't really need much help :-))
Dudley

[Jim Weir]

I know you said, "this summer", but that is only 11 or 12 lessons at one per
week. The training will last well into the fall. Actually, the training will
last his whole life, but that's another matter.

I'd go talk to his teacher, telling exactly what is planned and how it is going
to unfold. If the teacher has anything at all on the ball, his English
assignments are going to be to write about some aspect of flying, his math is
going to involve the trigonometry of wind triangles, and his history will be to
chronicle flight from Daedaleus (sp?) to the Mars mission.

Just a thought, mind you.

Jim



"Jay Honeck" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife and
->I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Weir]

Oh, and the one thing I forgot was to have him sign up for both auto shop and
electronics shop so he can show his old man how to work on the damn thing.

{;-)


Jim


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jay Honeck]

> I'd go talk to his teacher, telling exactly what is planned and how it is
going
> to unfold. If the teacher has anything at all on the ball, his English
> assignments are going to be to write about some aspect of flying, his math
is
> going to involve the trigonometry of wind triangles, and his history will
be to
> chronicle flight from Daedaleus (sp?) to the Mars mission.

Ah, Jim, you're dating yourself here.

At 13 nowadays, he's in "Junior High School" and doesn't have "a teacher" --
he has a fleet of 'em. One for each hour, in fact.

But I like the idea... I'll try to get in touch with at least a few of
them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Oh, and the one thing I forgot was to have him sign up for both auto shop
and
> electronics shop so he can show his old man how to work on the damn thing.

Yeah, he WILL take those classes in high school.

I attended a stupid Catholic high school in the '70s, and missed out on all
that. We were constantly struggling for money just to stay afloat. (Heck,
we even did several "Walk for St. Catherine's," where we would take per-mile
pledges, and walk 25 miles in an effort to keep the doors open...)

Needless to say, there was no "shop" class, or swimming class, or anything
that required extra money.

We had good discipline, though. ;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Eric Rood]

You have to send your kids to a "vocational" school to learn those things in my
school district.
If you do that, you cannot take the college prep classes you need.
Ideally, I would send my kids to vocational school in the morning to learn a
trade, then regular high school in the afternoon for "book learnin". Alas, that
is not possible.

Jim Weir wrote:

> Oh, and the one thing I forgot was to have him sign up for both auto shop and
> electronics shop so he can show his old man how to work on the damn thing.

[Jim]

My son is only 10 and I'm really looking forward to teaching him to fly but
for now I find that I have to "pick my moments" when teaching him small bits
and pieces. At times he's simply not interested, other times he's
fanatical. When he comes to me with an aviation question, idea, or
statement, I make sure that I take the time to thoroughly answer him and
return his questions with questions of my own to make him think. When he's
not in the mood, sometimes all he wants is a quick answer from me. For now,
I'm letting him choose when and how much he wants to learn and know about
flying. There are plenty of areas within aviation that I can keep
introducing to him to keep his interest up, but I won't push it. He loves
the different museums and to be able to take a friend along to show off what
he knows, we try to hit a different museum each summer. Next year I'll
probably let him tag along to ground schools with me when he wants and he's
already attended some of the special Sunday morning sessions and has fun
explaining some of the things he knows to the students.

Even though I'm a part time CFI, my son and I don't get many opportunities
to fly together, so each time is still special to him, and I let him choose
when we go. (he's still too short to reach the rudder pedals when sitting
on enough cushions to see out the window) My approach is going to be to
take it slow, let him lead the way by showing me how and when he is
interested. Down the road, we'll do an occasional lesson, introduce him to
other aviation adventures like sailplanes, aerial applicators, and the EAA
Summer Camp at OSH.

My worst fear is giving him a complex thinking that just because "Dad" does
it that he has to do it. I don't want that. I want him to fly because HE
wants to fly and I'll give him every opportunity as well as my total support
and encouragement.

Let me know what you and Mary work out with your son and how it transpires.

--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

[John Galban]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<IyC7c.58287$_w.912977@attbi_s53>...
> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife and
> I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.
>
> Any parents out there gone through the same experience?

Not a parent, but I have known a several kids that started training
early. Unless you can start him on sailplanes, I think 13 is a bit
early. The problem is that there are no immediate goals. Solo in a
power plane is at least 3 years away (seems like a lifetime to a 13
yr. old), and a PPL is 4 yrs. away. Even at 1 lesson per week, it
will be hard to maintain progress (and interest) for that long.

I'm not saying it's sure not to work, but you have to take into
account the time lag between starting training and achieving the goal
(or even a major milestone like solo). It's not a big factor for kids
that are highly motivated to fly (by that I mean the ones who are
totally nuts about aviation), but it's not for everyone.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Kyler Laird]

Culver Academy had a summer camp that offered pilot training when I was a kid.
Their site is screwed up enough that I can't tell for sure if they still do,
but the program is mentioned in this old article
http://www.culver.org/news/publications_2003/eCannon/May_03.htm
(look for "From Fleet Field")
and in this one
http://www.petersons.com/summerop/specnote.html
(look for "Culver Summer Camps/Culver Summer Aviation Program")

'seems like a place that specializes in flight training for 13-16 year olds
would be a good place to start.

(No, I didn't go to Culver. I was busy with music and cycling camps back
then. I wish I had though; it probably would have shaved some time off of
the 14 years I took to get my Private...)

--kyler

[Jim Weir]

When did you say the election for the Board of Trustees in your HS District was
going to be? And have you taken out papers to run?

Don't gimmee this "alas" stuff unless you are willing to hang your dobber out
there on the line.

Jim




Eric Rood >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->You have to send your kids to a "vocational" school to learn those things in
my
->school district.


Alas, that
->is not possible.


->
->Jim Weir wrote:
->
->> Oh, and the one thing I forgot was to have him sign up for both auto shop
and
->> electronics shop so he can show his old man how to work on the damn thing.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jay Masino]

In rec.aviation.piloting John Galban > wrote:
> Not a parent, but I have known a several kids that started training
> early. Unless you can start him on sailplanes, I think 13 is a bit
> early. The problem is that there are no immediate goals. Solo in a
> power plane is at least 3 years away (seems like a lifetime to a 13
> yr. old), and a PPL is 4 yrs. away. Even at 1 lesson per week, it
> will be hard to maintain progress (and interest) for that long.

This is exactly what I thought as soon as I read Jay's post. Jay should
continue flying with his son, and fostering his interest, and put off
having him take formal lessons until he's atleast 15.

--- Jay



--

__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Eric Rood]

School schedules run concurrent. Busing schedules drive the class start/stop
times. Three high schools, 4 middle schools, 14 elementary schools and 13,000
students to juggle.

Jim Weir wrote:

> When did you say the election for the Board of Trustees in your HS District was
> going to be? And have you taken out papers to run?
> Don't gimmee this "alas" stuff unless you are willing to hang your dobber out
> there on the line.

[Eric Rood]

School schedules run concurrent. Busing schedules drive the class start/stop
times. Three high schools, 4 middle schools, 14 elementary schools and 13,000
students to juggle.

Jim Weir wrote:

> When did you say the election for the Board of Trustees in your HS District was
> going to be? And have you taken out papers to run?
> Don't gimmee this "alas" stuff unless you are willing to hang your dobber out
> there on the line.

[Jay Honeck]

> This is exactly what I thought as soon as I read Jay's post. Jay should
> continue flying with his son, and fostering his interest, and put off
> having him take formal lessons until he's atleast 15.

Yeah, I've thought the same thing, off and on. But...

Then I read Trace Lewis' posts, with him asking insightful questions about
flying, and creating little musical videos of him flying a sail plane, and I
realize that SOME 13-year old boys *are* ready for this kind of thing. I
just don't know if *my* 13 year old boy is ready for such things.

Here's the deal: We want our son to feel the joy of flight. We want him to
be able to feel pride in achieving something other than the high score on
"Grand Theft Auto" (a popular video game, for you old fossils out there) --
while at the same time we don't want to push him into something he doesn't
appreciate.

On the OTHER other hand, a 13-year old is not unlike a pack-mule -- he'll
pretty much go whichever way you face him. If you don't steer them, they'll
just sit around all day eating potato chips and watching TV.

We are able to give him a unique opportunity -- an opportunity 99.999% of
the world will never have -- but this can be a double-edged sword if we
don't do it right.

*sigh* They say raising kids is the hardest thing you'll ever do. I'm
starting to believe that.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Eric Rood]

Excellent description!!! (add... play video games)

Jay Honeck wrote:

>
> On the OTHER other hand, a 13-year old is not unlike a pack-mule -- he'll
> pretty much go whichever way you face him. If you don't steer them, they'll
> just sit around all day eating potato chips and watching TV.

[hlongworth]

Jay,
Two suggestions:
1. You should 'interview' potential instructors first to see if
he/she meet your expectations. In setting your criteria, I would
strongly suggest putting safety awareness on top of the list. Rick and
I were lucky enough to have one who was extremely safety oriented. It
may be even more important for your son who has been flying since
birth. He is so familiar with flying and may not have enough 'fear'
and 'respect' in his heart.
2. Good chemistry between a student and an instructor is very
important. You may want to let your son take lessons with several
instructors who meet your criteria and let him decide whom he likes
the best.

[David Brooks]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:vZI7c.59157$1p.964116@attbi_s54...

> *sigh* They say raising kids is the hardest thing you'll ever do. I'm
> starting to believe that.

Not quite. I put "stopping raising them and putting duct tape over your
mouth as they get on with their own lives" on a par.

A colleague (who also lurks here occasionally) offers the following. I met
his son and he seems highly motivated, but I'm not clear whether that is a
cause or effect...

We started [son's name] with gliders (14 is solo age), although he decided
that dad's taildragger was more interesting.

Before age 15 (assuming power-only training), let him fly your plane from
the right seat. Also make certain he participates in x-country planning,
etc. Buy the KING CD course, which will be met by protests of "boring". So
is school, so get over it.

At age 15, start weekly lessons. At age 15-2/3, step it up so that on the
16th birthday he is so over-trained that the only possible blocker to a
birthday solo is weather. Assuming you don't forget to get him a medical by
the birthday. (Don't ask...)

[dbrooks: another popular last-minute forgotten detail is the CFI signature
on the 8710, I'm told]

As to maturity, let the CFI decide. You are too close to the situation.
Speaking of CFIs, relationships are important to teens. Make certain it
works.

-- David Brooks

[Morgans]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote

.. The important thing is to nail
> that motivation issue NOW!! You want to make absolutely sure that this kid
> WANTS to learn to fly and isn't doing it for any other reason!!! I can't
> stress enough the importance of this single issue.
> Best of luck. I have a feeling you and your wife are on top of this
already
> and don't really need much help :-))
> Dudley

Amen.

Too early, IMHO. Best to teach what you can yourself in the plane, then
start formal, when after a relatively short poriod, he can solo. Kids have
to see the goal, up close, or they lose interest.
--
Jim in NC


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[Don Tuite]

Jay, don't over-analyze. Go ahead, but let the kid know he can bail
(and come back) without a big scene. Some days it will seem like a
good idea; some days it won't.

Don

[Mike Weller]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:11:17 +0100, Martin Hotze
> wrote:

>
>who wants the boy to become a pilot? you, Mary or he himself?
>
>#m

Martin, you hit the nail on the head. I soloed on my 16th birthday
and my parents never paid for any of my flying lessons. I earned it.
I wanted it.

In the past year I've given a couple of youngsters their dual for the
Private. On the written test, they scored 74 and 76. One of them
failed the flight check the first time out. It wasn't my fault.
Dang, the written test questions and answers are published, and the
one that flunked the practical was on the last manueuver (short field
takeoff) and didn't notice that although he put the flap selector in
the full up position, they remained full down. And the examiner let
him attempt to do it! Right. Neither of these young men want to fly
as much as their Daddy and Mom do.

Mike Weller

[Cockpit Colin]

Having seen this a bit, my best advice would be ...

.... Wait.

If they're keen to learn then "test" their keenness by getting them stuck
into the written exams.

My belief if that the maturity to make life/death aviation decisions comes
with years AND experience - and in my (very humble) opinion someone who is
13 / 14 / 15 / 16 / 17 / 18 even needs to mature more before commanding any
aeroplane.

It might sound a little harsh, but it's one thing to solo an aeroplane
around the circuit - it's another when you're up there, wishing you were
down there - lonely - scared - bad case of get-home-itis - deteriorating
weather - perhaps an engine problem etc. In those kinds of situations your
son/daughter is going to either grow up awefully fast, or ... (let's not
even think about it)

Hope this helps!

CC

[Jim Fisher]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> Despite our aviation background, my wife and I are both on pins and
needles
> about this -- we want to make sure he gets off on the right foot. Any
> advice from others who have gone down this road is appreciated!

No advice here except to say that I sure hope your youngun' can grok what a
lucky little ******* he is. I sure wish I would have had such a chance at
that age. My gosh what a profound impact learning aviation would have had
had I been exposed to it earlier!

Good luck to your and yours.

--
Jim Fisher

[Jay Honeck]

> No advice here except to say that I sure hope your youngun' can grok what
a
> lucky little ******* he is. I sure wish I would have had such a chance at
> that age. My gosh what a profound impact learning aviation would have had
> had I been exposed to it earlier!

Same here. I can't even fathom what an opportunity like this would have
meant to me at age 13. I spent my entire life, until age 35, on the ground
looking up, wondering how (or if) I could ever get up there...

I talked with a young instructor-friend today, and asked him what he thought
of teaching a 13-year old to fly. To my surprise, he told me that HE
started taking lessons when he was 13!

He also joined Civil Air Patrol, and did a number of other things, including
spending a couple of weeks at OSH every year. He's now a CFI-I, and
working himself up the ladder.

I think I might send my kid up with him, just to see how it goes. He'll
try to feel him out, to see if the motivation is really there yet.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Wizard of Draws]

On 3/22/04 8:32 PM, in article ,
"Jim Fisher" > wrote:
>
> No advice here except to say that I sure hope your youngun' can grok what a
> lucky little ******* he is. I sure wish I would have had such a chance at
> that age. My gosh what a profound impact learning aviation would have had
> had I been exposed to it earlier!
>
> Good luck to your and yours.
>
> --
> Jim Fisher
>
>
I'll second that.
What I've gained by learning to fly at my advanced age, very likely would
have changed my life profoundly in direction and scope if it had been
learned as a child.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer.

My only advice is to go for it. Ok, so he *can't* solo for a few years. If you
wait until he can, there's a good chance that he'll be more interested in abusing
your ears with his idea of how to play a guitar or mooning over some girl. Let
him do what he can, and, if he loses interest, he'll have more to come back to
later than a vague memory of how Papa took him flying as a kid.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[J]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:16:08 +0000, Jay Honeck wrote:

> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife and
> I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.
>
> Any parents out there gone through the same experience? My concerns are:
>
> 1. Training Program. His training need to be thorough, but not dull and too
> "book oriented." I don't want him to burn out.
>
> 2. Structure. He's a typical 13 year old -- one minute mature, the next
> minute a scatter-brain. He learns best in a structured environment, which
> is something I've noticed is lacking in most FBO-based training programs.
> The problem, of course, is if it's too structured it may become dull, and
> then we're back to #1.
>
> 3. Frequency. Given his inability to solo for a few years, I was thinking
> that weekly lessons would be plenty. I know this slows the learning
> process, but that's okay for now. Or do you think he'll lose interest at
> that slow of a pace?
>
> 4. Instructor. Whoever teaches him is going to have to relate to a young
> teenager. Considering the young age of most of our CFIs, this may not be a
> problem. Or, they may not take him seriously. Or, worse, he might not take
> *them* seriously.
>
> It's really hard for me to tell if his interest is genuinely internal, or if
> it's just coming from the fact that his mother and I are pilots. We've
> assumed from birth that he and his sister would one day fly, just like we
> assume that they will one day drive a car and go to college, so it's not
> like he's got this unusually strong, burning desire to fly. Heck, he's been
> flying right seat since he was 8 years old, so it's kind of "old hat" to
> him, and he, too, has always just "assumed" he would learn to fly.
>
>

I would wait. He can't solo for a long time. 4 years is a long time in
the life of a 13 year old. My daughter is 14 and started lessons at 12.
Then she got interested in other things. friends, boys, cars. $1000 down
the tubes.

jerry

[Jürgen Exner]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My
> wife and I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.
>
> Any parents out there gone through the same experience? My concerns
> are:

The latest AOPA Flight Training magazin has an interesting article on this
subject, well worth reading.

jue

[Rob Perkins]

Don Tuite > wrote:

>Jay, don't over-analyze. Go ahead, but let the kid know he can bail
>(and come back) without a big scene. Some days it will seem like a
>good idea; some days it won't.

That's the best advice. If a young teen thinks you're keen to have him
do something, he'll probably attempt to "lose interest" and note your
reaction. Offer to him, support him, make the invitations, and don't
be crazed if he doesn't take an interest. He'll change his mind or
not.

Then, if you like, as he gets closer to solo age and to whatever
you'll consider appropriate one-on-one-dating age, offer it to him
again and see what he does. :-)

Rob

[Jim Fisher]

"J" > wrote in message
$1000 down
> the tubes.


Kinda early to say that, ain't it? Those kind of investments may take a
while to mature, you know. Because of her early experience, she may blossom
into something unexpected like an astronaut or (your worst nightmare) an
engineer.

--
Jim Fisher

[Rob Perkins]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:

>My only advice is to go for it. Ok, so he *can't* solo for a few years. If you
>wait until he can, there's a good chance that he'll be more interested in abusing
>your ears with his idea of how to play a guitar or mooning over some girl. Let
>him do what he can, and, if he loses interest, he'll have more to come back to
>later than a vague memory of how Papa took him flying as a kid.

On my last flight I let my little four-year-old think she was flying
the airplane. "Left turn! Yay!" "Right Turn! Yay!"

People tell me that she'll never let go of that interest, having
developed it at such an early age. If so, then I should not have a
problem keeping her interested in flying, because she'll do it all on
her own.

Rob

[Jay Honeck]

> On my last flight I let my little four-year-old think she was flying
> the airplane. "Left turn! Yay!" "Right Turn! Yay!"

My son started flying the plane about age 4, too.

The only danger is that flying can become so commonplace, they forget how
special it is. Both of my kids have gone through period where they were
jaded about flying, simply because we do it so much.

Of course, that's when it's time to give them some right seat time, which
usually does the trick. (But it ain't always easy, getting my wife -- also
a pilot -- to relinquish that seat! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Nathan Young]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:16:08 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife and
>I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.
>
>Any parents out there gone through the same experience? My concerns are:

Jay,

Time for you and/or Mary to get your CFI. I can't imagine a more
gratifying experience than teaching your son how to fly.

-Nathan

[Jay Masino]

In rec.aviation.piloting Jay Honeck > wrote:
> Of course, that's when it's time to give them some right seat time, which
> usually does the trick. (But it ain't always easy, getting my wife -- also
> a pilot -- to relinquish that seat! :-)

How about Mary in the left seat, and your son in the right?



--

__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Ron Parsons]

In article <IyC7c.58287$_w.912977@attbi_s53>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife and
>I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.

I'm of the opinion that stretched out lessons may be harmful.

My friends and I all did the FIT program while in college as a part of
our impending flight school with the USAF. We flew Cessna 120's and
140's. Flight time to solo averaged about 6-7 hours. Some did it in 3.
Those that got to 10 or 12 were in serious danger of washing out. Now
days, because of liability fears and to feed the time-building needs of
what passes for an instructor, students get 30+ hours.

OK, so I'm an opinionated old fart.

When I was your son's age, farm boys like myself could get a drivers
license at 14. We'd all been driving a long time by then. In that part
of the word, it's still true today. My son's measure of becoming a man
was when he could finally get the clutch all the way down on the truck.
He was 10.

I know a 3rd generation airline pilot whose dad let him fly the Cub out
of the pasture solo well before 16.

I gather from your letter you are intending to hold him off from solo
until 16 no matter what age he becomes ready.

So wait. Let him start his formal lessons no more than 6 weeks before
his birthday.

End of opinion.

--
Ron

[Jay Honeck]

> How about Mary in the left seat, and your son in the right?

Actually, the only time we've done that it was my DAUGHTER in the right
seat, Mary in the left seat, and us guys in the back.

It felt very, very strange!

But Mary's always welcome to do so -- she just never wants to.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> My friends and I all did the FIT program while in college as a part of
> our impending flight school with the USAF. We flew Cessna 120's and
> 140's. Flight time to solo averaged about 6-7 hours. Some did it in 3.

I did it in 6.2, 10 years ago. That was considered exceptionally fast,
then. (I think my CFI screwed up, soloing me before he meant to. I really
think he mixed me up with another student -- but he would never admit it.
:-)

> When I was your son's age, farm boys like myself could get a drivers
> license at 14. We'd all been driving a long time by then. In that part
> of the word, it's still true today.

In Iowa it's still possible to get a "farm license" (or whatever they call
it) at age 14. Being city-dwellers, I won't allow my son to do that -- it's
just asking for trouble, in my opinion.

> I gather from your letter you are intending to hold him off from solo
> until 16 no matter what age he becomes ready.

I would feel more comfortable with him flying anytime, rather than driving
on I-80. But that's just me.

> So wait. Let him start his formal lessons no more than 6 weeks before
> his birthday.

I hear you. Thanks for chiming in.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:_iW7c.70219$Cb.992922@attbi_s51...
> > On my last flight I let my little four-year-old think she was flying
> > the airplane. "Left turn! Yay!" "Right Turn! Yay!"
>
> My son started flying the plane about age 4, too.
>
> The only danger is that flying can become so commonplace, they forget how
> special it is. Both of my kids have gone through period where they were
> jaded about flying, simply because we do it so much.

Keep increasing their participation on each flight to where by the time
they're 15 they're doing most everything.

[Corky Scott]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:34:19 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> This is exactly what I thought as soon as I read Jay's post. Jay should
>> continue flying with his son, and fostering his interest, and put off
>> having him take formal lessons until he's atleast 15.
>
>Yeah, I've thought the same thing, off and on. But...
>
>Then I read Trace Lewis' posts, with him asking insightful questions about
>flying, and creating little musical videos of him flying a sail plane, and I
>realize that SOME 13-year old boys *are* ready for this kind of thing. I
>just don't know if *my* 13 year old boy is ready for such things.
>
>Here's the deal: We want our son to feel the joy of flight. We want him to
>be able to feel pride in achieving something other than the high score on
>"Grand Theft Auto" (a popular video game, for you old fossils out there) --
>while at the same time we don't want to push him into something he doesn't
>appreciate.
>
>On the OTHER other hand, a 13-year old is not unlike a pack-mule -- he'll
>pretty much go whichever way you face him. If you don't steer them, they'll
>just sit around all day eating potato chips and watching TV.
>
>We are able to give him a unique opportunity -- an opportunity 99.999% of
>the world will never have -- but this can be a double-edged sword if we
>don't do it right.
>
>*sigh* They say raising kids is the hardest thing you'll ever do. I'm
>starting to believe that.
>--
>Jay Honeck
>Iowa City, IA
>Pathfinder N56993
>www.AlexisParkInn.com
>"Your Aviation Destination"
>
>
Have you read Rick Durden's article about his daughter soloing in a
glider? There is a picture of her in this month's Sport Aviation
standing in front of the glider and looking hugely mature for a 13
year old, and extremely smug about things.

He flew beside her watching the flight.

I think Rick would probably explode with pride if his skin were a
thousandths thinner. ;-)

Corky Scott

[G.R. Patterson III]

Corky Scott wrote:
>
> I think Rick would probably explode with pride if his skin were a
> thousandths thinner. ;-)

Yet another reason for him to be glad he's so thick-skinned. :-)

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

[Jay Honeck]

> Have you read Rick Durden's article about his daughter soloing in a
> glider? There is a picture of her in this month's Sport Aviation
> standing in front of the glider and looking hugely mature for a 13
> year old, and extremely smug about things.
>
> He flew beside her watching the flight.
>
> I think Rick would probably explode with pride if his skin were a
> thousandths thinner. ;-)

For sure! I've met Rick's daughter, both at Oshkosh and when he brought her
here to Iowa City -- and she is one smooth operator. Very sharp and
self-confident for a teenager.

I think she was actually 14 when her AOPA article ran -- and she's probably
pushing 15 now.

Girls sure mature faster than boys at that age.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Corky Scott]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:40:44 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:


>I think she was actually 14 when her AOPA article ran -- and she's probably
>pushing 15 now.
>
>Girls sure mature faster than boys at that age.
>--
>Jay Honeck
>Iowa City, IA
>Pathfinder N56993
>www.AlexisParkInn.com
>"Your Aviation Destination"

I think you're correct about the age. As to girls maturing faster
than boys at that age, I'm beginning to wonder when we ever catch up.

Corky Scott

[Jack Allison]

> *sigh* They say raising kids is the hardest thing you'll ever do. I'm
> starting to believe that.

Starting??? Either the first 12 years were easy or you're a little slow on
the uptake there Jay :-)

Best of luck to you and Mary as you try and figure out the way to pursue
this whole thing. One thing your son has going for him is that when ATC
calls out traffic, he'll know *exactly* what to look for.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck]

> Best of luck to you and Mary as you try and figure out the way to pursue
> this whole thing. One thing your son has going for him is that when ATC
> calls out traffic, he'll know *exactly* what to look for.

Yeah, but he'll be expecting a quarter every time he spots traffic! :-)

(We've been paying both of our kids 25 cents for every plane they can spot
before we do, since they were toddlers. Those young eyes can really SEE.
Of course, we have turn them "off" when we're flying into Oshkosh Airventure
or Sun N Fun, or we'd go broke!)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jack Allison]

Sure, just tell him the proper radio phraseology is "Roger approach, Piper
xyz has that traffic in sight, expect standard fee" then see what happens.
:-)

When he takes you or Mary along as a pax, see if the table is now turned and
you can start earning those quarters back.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[[email protected]]

Jay,

It is too bad you are not near me in Colorado. I have had several
young students... I like to start them in airplanes at 10 years old,
transition to gliders at 12, solo gliders at 14, glider ticket at 16,
solo airplanes at 16, airplane ticket at 17. :-)

Youth are an interesting group to work with. I get to serve Civil Air
Patrol at glider and power flight academies, so I am quite used to
working with young folks. Make sure your son and your chosen flight
instructor get along well, and that your son is doing this for
HIMSELF, not to please his parents!

So, look around, and purchase him a glider ride, a balloon ride, and
an airplane introductory ride (without any parents or parent's friends
or acquaintenances in the airplane). Afterwards, intervies the
CFI/pilot about their perceptions of your son's motivations and
aptitude at this time.

Take this ALL with a grain of salt, as EVERYTHING for a young person
may change in 6 weeks or 6 months.

In rec.aviation.student Jay Honeck > wrote:
> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife and
> I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.
Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!

[J]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:01:40 -0600, Jim Fisher wrote:

> "J" > wrote in message
> $1000 down
>> the tubes.
>
>
> Kinda early to say that, ain't it? Those kind of investments may take a
> while to mature, you know. Because of her early experience, she may blossom
> into something unexpected like an astronaut or (your worst nightmare) an
> engineer.

She really has no love of flying. She grew up with a plane in the
family so a plane is just a means of transportation. Sort of like a car.

As far as her other skills, she has been a straight A student for 8 years
(now in 8th grade), is tops in the school in math and physics, and
achieved her black belt at 10. So we have not problem with motivation or
focus. Flying is just not a big deal.

Sigh,

jerry

[Craig R. Bowers]

Hi Jay;

Neither of my parents flew. So I speak from the student/child side. Although
that
was 30 years ago. :-)

I was extremely motivated when I was a kid as I had always wanted to fly. I
can
not remember a time that I did not want to fly. I would save any money that
I earned
and use my lunch money to fly with. I had my first 4 or 5 hours before my
parents
knew what I was doing.

My father was supportive to the point that he did not stop me and my mother,
well,
she pretended that I was not doing anything.

I started my training when I was 14, soloed on my 16th b-day and had my
private
ticket before the end of high school. I had planned to have a flying career,
but I ended
up a computer guru. Go Figure. :-)

If your son really wants to learn, I would have him fly a few hours, then
have him hit
the books. If he is truly into flying he should be willing to study a few
hours a week.

Our 15 year old son is not into flying at all. He loves his Tae Kwon Do. He
is just about
to test for his 2nd degree black belt. Jody has been asked to go to a
tournament in
Chicago in July.

Regardless if he enjoys flying or not, be supportive.

Craig R. Bowers
Rosamond, Ca http://craignet.com


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:IyC7c.58287$_w.912977@attbi_s53...
> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. My wife
and
> I are both pilots, so he has been flying since birth.
>
> Any parents out there gone through the same experience? My concerns are:
>
> 1. Training Program. His training need to be thorough, but not dull and
too
> "book oriented." I don't want him to burn out.
>
> 2. Structure. He's a typical 13 year old -- one minute mature, the next
> minute a scatter-brain. He learns best in a structured environment, which
> is something I've noticed is lacking in most FBO-based training programs.
> The problem, of course, is if it's too structured it may become dull, and
> then we're back to #1.
>
> 3. Frequency. Given his inability to solo for a few years, I was thinking
> that weekly lessons would be plenty. I know this slows the learning
> process, but that's okay for now. Or do you think he'll lose interest at
> that slow of a pace?
>
> 4. Instructor. Whoever teaches him is going to have to relate to a young
> teenager. Considering the young age of most of our CFIs, this may not be
a
> problem. Or, they may not take him seriously. Or, worse, he might not
take
> *them* seriously.
>
> It's really hard for me to tell if his interest is genuinely internal, or
if
> it's just coming from the fact that his mother and I are pilots. We've
> assumed from birth that he and his sister would one day fly, just like we
> assume that they will one day drive a car and go to college, so it's not
> like he's got this unusually strong, burning desire to fly. Heck, he's
been
> flying right seat since he was 8 years old, so it's kind of "old hat" to
> him, and he, too, has always just "assumed" he would learn to fly.
>
> But flying is serious business, and I want to make sure he becomes safe
and
> proficient.
>
> Despite our aviation background, my wife and I are both on pins and
needles
> about this -- we want to make sure he gets off on the right foot. Any
> advice from others who have gone down this road is appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Cecil E. Chapman]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:IyC7c.58287$_w.912977@attbi_s53...
> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. >

Just wanted to say, what a great opportunity for your son! Gotta confess,
looking at the 9 year old and kinda hoping that he gets the 'bug' around the
time he is your son's age. My wife (not a pilot, but a willing passenger) ,
of course, knows what I'm thinking and I'm not sure what her 'vote' will be
if the munchkin at 13 asks about taking flying lessons, but time will tell.
Assuming your son is sufficiently motivated,, having two pilot parents is
going to give him a great start.

Good luck!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:50:46 GMT, "Cecil E. Chapman"
> wrote:

>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>news:IyC7c.58287$_w.912977@attbi_s53...
>> My son, age 13, is planning to take flight lessons this summer. >
>

A UK friend of mine sometimes gets his BFR with a US instructor who is
closely related to one of the aircraft manuafacturers. He tells me she
that she got her PPL on her 16th birthday and was given the keys to
about 20 local aircraft which she flew the same day!

I guess she likes flying.

Good luck with your Son. It took me until 48 to get started!




E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

[Jay Honeck]

> Good luck with your Son. It took me until 48 to get started!

Yep, I hear you. I wasted 35 good years on the ground, looking up...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:32:16 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> Good luck with your Son. It took me until 48 to get started!
>
>Yep, I hear you. I wasted 35 good years on the ground, looking up...

I kept looking at lots of Search and Rescue plus Military traffic
around here (Highlands of Scotland) so my wife bought me a trial
lesson in 1989, it was supposed to get it out of my system.

Best decision she ever made!!!


David

Piper Warrior G-BHJO
Scotland, UK

E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot