Self fly hire in the US

[Nigel]

I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have a
UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture down
to Key West as I have done before..

Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?

Nigel

[Chris Powell]

Nigel

I don't believe that you do, if you are going to Naples Air Center just give
Richard or Nicki a call, they are really helpful. You will find the number
on the website.

Chris Powell


"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> "Nigel" > wrote:
>
> > Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
>
>
> IMHO: no. But better check with the authorities (call the embassy).
>
> there might be an issue with flying, but hopefully they have sorted that
out.
>
> #m
> --
> How come we choose from just two people to
> run for president and 50 for Miss America?
>
> I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get
elected.

[S Green]

"Nigel" > wrote in message
...
> I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
> and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have
a
> UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
> plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture
down
> to Key West as I have done before..
>
> Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
>
> Nigel

If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up flight
hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel
visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since the
introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation Security
Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be required
to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft you
will be flying.

Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to
schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
www.usembassy.org.uk

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:51:44 -0000, "Nigel"
> wrote:

>I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
>and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have a
>UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
>plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture down
>to Key West as I have done before..
>
>Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
>
>Nigel
>

Assuming you have an original FAA certificate (not a temporary
certificate issued on the basis of your UK licence) then you shouldn't
need anything but your FAA certificate, FAA medical and have the BFR.

I have a FAA certificate and went to Honolulu in January. Did the BFR,
got the medical and had hoped to fly to Molokai but believe it or not
the weather was poor for the day I'd arranged to fly solo otherwise no
problem. I went into the US on the Visa Waiver system.

David

Piper Warrior G-BHJO
Scotland, UK

E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

[Andrew Sarangan]

"S Green" > wrote in message >...
> "Nigel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
> > and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have
> a
> > UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
> > plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture
> down
> > to Key West as I have done before..
> >
> > Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
> >
> > Nigel
>
> If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up flight
> hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel
> visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since the
> introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation Security
> Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
> When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be required
> to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft you
> will be flying.
>
> Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to
> schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
> www.usembassy.org.uk



I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
aircraft?

[Capt.Doug]

>"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message > Does a
> regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
> aircraft?

It does not require a special visa and can be done if one has entered under
the Visa Waiver Program. US authorities become interested when a foreign
national wants training in an aircraft weighing over 12500 pounds. Then the
visa alone is insufficient.

D.

[John Bishop]

I asked this question last year when I was in Seattle. They had no idea. I
ended up renting a plane dual as I didn't have enough time to take the BFR.

What I did was to take the BFR back here in the UK and I will rent next time
I'm out there.

John

"Nigel" > wrote in message
...
> I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
> and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have
a
> UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
> plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture
down
> to Key West as I have done before..
>
> Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
>
> Nigel
>
>

[Cub Driver]

>I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
>His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.

Well, Mohammed Atta's primary visiting for visiting the U.S. was
suicide and mass destruction. The flight instruction was secondary.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Eclipsme]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
om...
> "S Green" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Nigel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this
year
> > > and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I
have
> > a
> > > UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then
rent a
> > > plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even
venture
> > down
> > > to Key West as I have done before..
> > >
> > > Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
> > >
> > > Nigel
> >
> > If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up
flight
> > hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel
> > visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since
the
> > introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation
Security
> > Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
> > When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
required
> > to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft
you
> > will be flying.
> >
> > Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to
> > schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
> > www.usembassy.org.uk
>
>
>
> I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
> His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
> Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
> car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
> regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
> aircraft?

Yes, I hesitate commenting, but I have never been asked for my passport when
renting a plane - just my medical, license and logbook. Why would a visa be
required and why would an FBO ask for one? Of course, if you do not have an
FAA license I would understand, but this person has one.

Harvey

[S Green]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
om...
> "S Green" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Nigel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this
year
> > > and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I
have
> > a
> > > UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then
rent a
> > > plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even
venture
> > down
> > > to Key West as I have done before..
> > >
> > > Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
> > >
> > > Nigel
> >
> > If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up
flight
> > hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel
> > visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since
the
> > introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation
Security
> > Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
> > When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
required
> > to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft
you
> > will be flying.
> >
> > Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to
> > schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
> > www.usembassy.org.uk
>
>
>
> I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
> His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
> Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
> car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
> regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
> aircraft?

Ridiculous or not it is advice from the US embassy. Ask them the question
yourself then.

[S Green]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
om...
> "S Green" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Nigel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this
year
> > > and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I
have
> > a
> > > UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then
rent a
> > > plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even
venture
> > down
> > > to Key West as I have done before..
> > >
> > > Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
> > >
> > > Nigel
> >
> > If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up
flight
> > hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel
> > visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since
the
> > introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation
Security
> > Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
> > When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
required
> > to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft
you
> > will be flying.
> >
> > Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to
> > schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
> > www.usembassy.org.uk
>
>
>
> I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
> His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
> Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
> car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
> regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
> aircraft?

As the advice says you may be able to hour build ie rent on the Visa waiver
program but it recommends getting the B-2 (tourist visa) and a letter from
the plane company to give details of the planes you are likely to hire.

Anyone in doubt should read this link:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65838

[S Green]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> "S Green" > wrote:
>
> > Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
>
>
> who is "we"?
>
> > When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
required
> > to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft
you
> > will be flying.
> >
> > Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to
> > schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
>
> "our website"? so you're working at the US embassy in the UK?
>
> > www.usembassy.org.uk

Extract from a response by the US embassy to exactly this question.
I thought it appropriate to contact the embassy for an answer. with all due
respect to the immigration experts in this group I felt that the government
might be the ones to ask. They make the rules.
Who recommends - the embassy visa section recommend a B2 visa. It may be ok
to enter via the visa waiver but having a tourist B2 visa seems safer.

[S Green]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> >I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
> >His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
>
> Well, Mohammed Atta's primary visiting for visiting the U.S. was
> suicide and mass destruction. The flight instruction was secondary.
>

The rules are there to protect American citizens. Not being American, if I
want to visit your country I will follow your rules until they become so
difficult that its not worth it. Then I will go and spend my cash elsewhere.

I am ****ed about the imposition it has on my flying but at the end of the
day the 911 terrorists learnt to fly at US flying schools.

Incidentally, the authorities are interested in the size of plane and when I
visited at Christmas to do some training (4hours) I had the visa, and a
letter saying that the plane was less than 12,500 pounds.

To do 4 hours training, (JAR to FAA conversion) the visa paperwork took
three hours, the visa cost $100 and I had to wait 4 hours for a 2 minute
interview at the embassy.

[S Green]

"Eclipsme" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "S Green" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > "Nigel" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this
> year
> > > > and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I
> have
> > > a
> > > > UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then
> rent a
> > > > plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even
> venture
> > > down
> > > > to Key West as I have done before..
> > > >
> > > > Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
> > > >
> > > > Nigel
> > >
> > > If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up
> flight
> > > hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to
travel
> > > visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since
> the
> > > introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation
> Security
> > > Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
> > > When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
> required
> > > to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of
aircraft
> you
> > > will be flying.
> > >
> > > Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how
to
> > > schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
> > > www.usembassy.org.uk
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
> > His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
> > Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
> > car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
> > regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
> > aircraft?
>
> Yes, I hesitate commenting, but I have never been asked for my passport
when
> renting a plane - just my medical, license and logbook. Why would a visa
be
> required and why would an FBO ask for one? Of course, if you do not have
an
> FAA license I would understand, but this person has one.
>
> Harvey

You need the visa to get into the country not to rent a plane. To rent you
need to produce your medical, licence and logbook. Being foreign, I keep my
passport on me because the FARs require photo ID when exercising the
privileges of the licence / certificate.

[Tony Cox]

"S Green" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "S Green" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > "Nigel" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this
> year
> > > > and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I
> have
> > > a
> > > > UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then
> rent a
> > > > plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even
> venture
> > > down
> > > > to Key West as I have done before..
> > > >
> > > > Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
> > > >
> > > > Nigel
> > >
> > > If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up
> flight
> > > hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to
travel
> > > visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since
> the
> > > introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation
> Security
> > > Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
> > > When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
> required
> > > to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of
aircraft
> you
> > > will be flying.
> > >
> > > Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how
to
> > > schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
> > > www.usembassy.org.uk
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
> > His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
> > Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
> > car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
> > regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
> > aircraft?
>
> As the advice says you may be able to hour build ie rent on the Visa
waiver
> program but it recommends getting the B-2 (tourist visa) and a letter from
> the plane company to give details of the planes you are likely to hire.
>
> Anyone in doubt should read this link:
>
> http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65838

I've read the link. It says that if he has a FAA license he can come on the
visa waver program and fly as long has he meets the usual BFR/Medical
standards.

Where do you get the bit about recommending getting a B-2? You
realize what a complete pain in the neck this is these days, don't you?
Why make it more complicated?

[S Green]

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> "S Green" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > "S Green" > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > "Nigel" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation
this
> > year
> > > > > and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida.
I
> > have
> > > > a
> > > > > UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and
then
> > rent a
> > > > > plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even
> > venture
> > > > down
> > > > > to Key West as I have done before..
> > > > >
> > > > > Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nigel
> > > >
> > > > If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up
> > flight
> > > > hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to
> travel
> > > > visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified,
since
> > the
> > > > introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation
> > Security
> > > > Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
> > > > When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
> > required
> > > > to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of
> aircraft
> > you
> > > > will be flying.
> > > >
> > > > Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on
how
> to
> > > > schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website
at
> > > > www.usembassy.org.uk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
> > > His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
> > > Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
> > > car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
> > > regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
> > > aircraft?
> >
> > As the advice says you may be able to hour build ie rent on the Visa
> waiver
> > program but it recommends getting the B-2 (tourist visa) and a letter
from
> > the plane company to give details of the planes you are likely to hire.
> >
> > Anyone in doubt should read this link:
> >
> > http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65838
>
> I've read the link. It says that if he has a FAA license he can come on
the
> visa waver program and fly as long has he meets the usual BFR/Medical
> standards.
>
> Where do you get the bit about recommending getting a B-2? You
> realize what a complete pain in the neck this is these days, don't you?
> Why make it more complicated?
>
Read further up this post, the info came from the US embassy. As I say if in
doubt write to them yourself. The advice in the link was posted in Feb 2003,
the advice from the US embassy was January 2004



When I queried the bit about the recommendation they came up with this:

Some travellers are eligible to travel under the Visa Waiver Program in lieu
of a B-2 visa. While you may meet the requirements for visa free travel, we
recommend that you apply for a visa, which will ease your entry into the
United States. Please bear in mind, however, that the information above is
only appropriate if you are only building up flight hours.

If you intend to receive flight training in the US, you will require an F, J
or M visa.

At the end of the day you can choose to take the advice or not it is up to
you.

If you decide it is too much trouble then fine, go and spend your money
somewhere else, but if you really want to fly in the US follow the rules.
And remember this bit of information from the US embassy website

A visa is issued by a U.S. Embassy or Consulate. A visa entitles the holder
to travel to the United States and apply for admission; it does not
guarantee entry. An immigration inspector at the port of entry determines
the visa holder's eligibility for admission into the United States.

[Steve Foley]

You may not have a US certificate anymore, you'll need to check.

A friend of mine had a US certificate based (PP-ASEL) on a UK PPL. He made
an appointment for an IFR checkride and was told that all certs based on
foreign licenses had been revoked. He had to take the PP and IR checkride
the same day.


"Nigel" > wrote in message
...
> I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
> and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have
a
> UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
> plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture
down
> to Key West as I have done before..
>
> Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?
>
> Nigel
>
>

[Tony Cox]

"S Green" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
>
> > Where do you get the bit about recommending getting a B-2? You
> > realize what a complete pain in the neck this is these days, don't you?
> > Why make it more complicated?
> >
> Read further up this post, the info came from the US embassy. As I say if
in
> doubt write to them yourself. The advice in the link was posted in Feb
2003,
> the advice from the US embassy was January 2004

Well, that information is completely different from the info
in the link you told people to read if in doubt. There it
says "If you are coming to hour build or a flying
holiday and have a FAA Licence or an FAA licence
issued on the basis of your Foreign Licence, you
can enter the country on a Visa Waiver and fly as
long as you meet the F.A.R.s. (BFR, Medical, etc.)"

Since Nigel has an FAA license, plans to do a little
flying, and will meet the BFR/Medical requirements,
he doesn't need a visa, according to that advice.

He doesn't plan any flight training, so he doesn't need
a student visa. Still, having been myself at the wrong
end of the INS idiots from time to time, when entering
he'd be best to just say he's coming on holiday. I very
much doubt that the immigration officer would specifically
demand to know if he was planning a _flying_ holiday.
Why should they, unless he tries to clear customs with
David Clarks on his head?

Security wise, the man's got an FAA license, which means he
is 'known' to the authorities here. If he was a terrorist, he'd
have had his license suspended. Of course, the subtleties
of this are no doubt lost on the INS or whatever they are
called these days.

>
> At the end of the day you can choose to take the advice or not it is up to
> you.

It's not clear what your advice is, since the link you provided and the
answer from the embassy disagree.

[Sylvain]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
> You may not have a US certificate anymore, you'll need to check.
>
> A friend of mine had a US certificate based (PP-ASEL) on a UK PPL. He made
> an appointment for an IFR checkride and was told that all certs based on
> foreign licenses had been revoked. He had to take the PP and IR checkride
> the same day.

someone was pulling your friend's leg.

I happen to have both, i.e., a private certificate established on the
basis of a foreign licence (under 14 CFR 61.75), and a commercial
certificate I later earned here (in California) -- having both is possible
because I obtained the FAA commercial certificate *after* getting the
private certificate under 61.75 and it contains a glider rating that I do
not have on my commercial certificate (yet! :-); the specifics are
spelled out in 14 CFR 61.75(b)(3) (check out how it is worded!), as well
as the "Pilot Examiner's Handbook", Order 8710.3C, paragraph 53.H.2, pp.5-16);

anyway, certificates issued under 61.75 have not, to my knowledge,
been revoked (unless your friend benefits from special considerations
so to speak);

--Sylvain

[Robert M. Gary]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message >...
> You may not have a US certificate anymore, you'll need to check.
>
> A friend of mine had a US certificate based (PP-ASEL) on a UK PPL. He made
> an appointment for an IFR checkride and was told that all certs based on
> foreign licenses had been revoked. He had to take the PP and IR checkride
> the same day.


I think something got lost in the translation. :) I believe there may
have also been a temporary prohibitation on issuing US private
certificates on the bases of foreign tickets. That's probably what
happened to your friend. He probably showed up to get a US ticket on
the bases of his UK and then take the checkride but the FSDO was
temporarily unable to do the issuance. BTW: What good is the IFR
rating in the U.K.? Is it true you need to have an ATP to fly real IFR
in the U.K. in a U.K. registered aircraft?

-Robert

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Robert M. Gary i
wrote:
> rating in the U.K.? Is it true you need to have an ATP to fly real IFR
> in the U.K. in a U.K. registered aircraft?

No. But a full instrument rating is unnecessarily difficult - it's far
easier just to get an FAA license and have your aircraft N-registered.

Unfortunately, it's another case of so-called safety rules actually
reducing safety.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[S Green]

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> "S Green" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> > hlink.net...
> >
> > > Where do you get the bit about recommending getting a B-2? You
> > > realize what a complete pain in the neck this is these days, don't
you?
> > > Why make it more complicated?
> > >
> > Read further up this post, the info came from the US embassy. As I say
if
> in
> > doubt write to them yourself. The advice in the link was posted in Feb
> 2003,
> > the advice from the US embassy was January 2004
>
> Well, that information is completely different from the info
> in the link you told people to read if in doubt. There it
> says "If you are coming to hour build or a flying
> holiday and have a FAA Licence or an FAA licence
> issued on the basis of your Foreign Licence, you
> can enter the country on a Visa Waiver and fly as
> long as you meet the F.A.R.s. (BFR, Medical, etc.)"
>
> Since Nigel has an FAA license, plans to do a little
> flying, and will meet the BFR/Medical requirements,
> he doesn't need a visa, according to that advice.
>
> He doesn't plan any flight training, so he doesn't need
> a student visa. Still, having been myself at the wrong
> end of the INS idiots from time to time, when entering
> he'd be best to just say he's coming on holiday. I very
> much doubt that the immigration officer would specifically
> demand to know if he was planning a _flying_ holiday.
> Why should they, unless he tries to clear customs with
> David Clarks on his head?
>
> Security wise, the man's got an FAA license, which means he
> is 'known' to the authorities here. If he was a terrorist, he'd
> have had his license suspended. Of course, the subtleties
> of this are no doubt lost on the INS or whatever they are
> called these days.
>
> >
> > At the end of the day you can choose to take the advice or not it is up
to
> > you.
>
> It's not clear what your advice is, since the link you provided and the
> answer from the embassy disagree.

The link was Feb 2003 and said that the Feds were yhinking about changes to
the Visa waiver. The embassy advice was 2004, looks like they are beginning
to think about it a bit more.

The point is that the situation seems to be constantly changing so if in ANY
doubt, contact the embassy for the latest position.

[S Green]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
om...
> "Steve Foley" > wrote in message
> > You may not have a US certificate anymore, you'll need to check.
> >
> > A friend of mine had a US certificate based (PP-ASEL) on a UK PPL. He
made
> > an appointment for an IFR checkride and was told that all certs based on
> > foreign licenses had been revoked. He had to take the PP and IR
checkride
> > the same day.
>
> someone was pulling your friend's leg.
>
> I happen to have both, i.e., a private certificate established on the
> basis of a foreign licence (under 14 CFR 61.75), and a commercial
> certificate I later earned here (in California) -- having both is
possible
> because I obtained the FAA commercial certificate *after* getting the
> private certificate under 61.75 and it contains a glider rating that I do
> not have on my commercial certificate (yet! :-); the specifics are
> spelled out in 14 CFR 61.75(b)(3) (check out how it is worded!), as well
> as the "Pilot Examiner's Handbook", Order 8710.3C, paragraph 53.H.2,
pp.5-16);
>
> anyway, certificates issued under 61.75 have not, to my knowledge,
> been revoked (unless your friend benefits from special considerations
> so to speak);

The only way they will have been revoked is if the licence number of the
foreign licence has changed. The 61.75 certificate refers to the foreign
certificate.
Many European licence numbers including the UK have changed as a result of
the JAA changes. If the number has changed then the FAA 61.75 needs to be re
issued. To do this, then one has to go through the verification process.

http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/flightinstruction/index.cfm

There is a FAA FAQ which is very clear on this matter extract below:

QUESTION: My question involves whether the procedures set forth in Notice
8700.15 apply to this German citizen who currently holds a § 61.75 private
pilot certificate that lists the license number of his old German pilot
license. His new German pilot license has a different number. The person
wants to correct his § 61.75 private pilot certificate and have it reissued
to reflect the license number of his new German pilot license. Do the
application requirements and procedures set forth in Notice 8700.15 apply?



ANSWER: Ref. § 61.75(a) and (b)(2) and FAA Notice 8700.15, Page 10,
paragraph 4. S(1); Yes, the application requirements and procedures set
forth in FAA Notice 8700.15 apply even if the application is for a
re-issuance of a § 61.75 private pilot certificate on account of a numbering
change in the person's foreign pilot license. The basis for my answer is
predicated on paragraph 4. S(1) in FAA Notice 8700.15 where it states ". .
..A person who is applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating on the basis
of a foreign license must be informed that he or she should try to pre-apply
for that pilot certificate at least 60 days before arriving at the
designated FAA FSDO where the applicant expects to receive the U.S. pilot
certificate . . ."



Additionally, paragraph 3 ("Applicability") in FAA Notice 8700.15
establishes that FAA Notice 8700.15 applies to the issuance of ". . . U.S.
pilot certificates and ratings to persons who apply on the basis of their
foreign pilot licenses . . ."



So, in effect, the person ". . . is applying for a U.S. pilot
certificate/ratings on the basis of a foreign license . . ." [i.e.,
paragraph 4. S(1) in FAA Notice 8700.15] when the person makes application
for a U.S. pilot certificate on account of a numbering change in his/her
foreign pilot license.



In a review of this question with Emily White, FAA Flight Standards'
International Liaison Staff, AFS-50, she further verified the answer as she
stated:



"This is how we have been treating the issuance of § 61.75 pilot
certificates before the need to verify the authenticity of foreign pilot
licenses. With the introduction of JAR-FCL in Europe, some of the countries
had to issue new pilot license numbers to their airmen. In those cases, we
and the foreign civil aviation authority have determined it is a new
underlying foreign pilot license and thus the § 61.75 pilot certificate on
which the foreign pilot license was based was no longer valid. Thus, they
need to get a new § 61.75 pilot certificate based on their "new" foreign
pilot license."

{Q&A-522}


The same group of FAQs make it clear that if you want to add a rating to a
61.75 certificate you must present the valid verification letter to the DPE.
If there is no valid verification letter, then the only route is to get an
unrestricted private certificate and comply with the Part 61 requirements.
The likelihood is that most JAA licences do (night flying the only problem)
and then add the instrument certificate. Ie doing boths tests in short
order.

Question: Do the procedures set forth in FAA Notice 8700.15 apply to persons
who are applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating(s) and are not applying
on the basis of their foreign pilot license?



Answer: No, The procedures set forth in FAA Notice 8700.15 do not apply to
a person who is applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating(s) and is not
applying on the basis of their foreign pilot license. A person who is
applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating(s) on the basis of meeting the
appropriate Part 61 certification requirements and is not using their
foreign pilot license as the basis for the application then that person need
not comply with the procedures set forth in FAA Notice 8700.15. However,
this answer may be subject to change in the future because the
Transportation Security Agency is constantly requiring the FAA to make
changes on the basis of National security. At this time there are several
proposals under consideration that may require the FAA to change its
application and certification process for non-U.S. citizens. The United
States is at war and have been ever since September 11, 2001, so we may need
to revise our policies and procedures in the future in the interest of
National security. If there needs to be a change to our application and
certification process for non-U.S. citizens, the Airmen Certification
Branch, AFS-760 and the Certification Branch, AFS-840 are the responsible
offices for notifying you.



Hope this is helpful for the full FAQ I suggest you go here:



http://www.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc

[Sylvain]

"S Green" > wrote in message
>
> The only way they will have been revoked is if the licence number of the
> foreign licence has changed. The 61.75 certificate refers to the foreign
> certificate.
> Many European licence numbers including the UK have changed as a result of
> the JAA changes. If the number has changed then the FAA 61.75 needs to be re
> issued. To do this, then one has to go through the verification process.

I did hear the same rumor at the time and did call the CAA in Gatwick to
find out (since my foreign license is British); there was no change in
numbers of licenses due to the JAA changes (the last change in licenses
numbers the nice lady I talked to was aware of was way older than that);
so this is definitely not the case.

what might happen however, is if someone holding a British (or other
JAA country) license did chose to exchange it for a JAR one, then the
number would have indeed changed (plus a number of annoying side effects,
such as having a license which now expires as opposed to the good ol' PPL(A)
which was basically valid forever unless surrendered or revoked a bit like
the FAA certificates are; i.e., valid doesn't necessarily mean current,
but 61.75 only requires the foreign license to be valid, but I am digressing
again here);

--Sylvain

[S Green]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
om...
> "S Green" > wrote in message
> >
> > The only way they will have been revoked is if the licence number of the
> > foreign licence has changed. The 61.75 certificate refers to the foreign
> > certificate.
> > Many European licence numbers including the UK have changed as a result
of
> > the JAA changes. If the number has changed then the FAA 61.75 needs to
be re
> > issued. To do this, then one has to go through the verification process.
>
> I did hear the same rumor at the time and did call the CAA in Gatwick to
> find out (since my foreign license is British); there was no change in
> numbers of licenses due to the JAA changes (the last change in licenses
> numbers the nice lady I talked to was aware of was way older than that);
> so this is definitely not the case.
>
> what might happen however, is if someone holding a British (or other
> JAA country) license did chose to exchange it for a JAR one, then the
> number would have indeed changed (plus a number of annoying side effects,
> such as having a license which now expires as opposed to the good ol'
PPL(A)
> which was basically valid forever unless surrendered or revoked a bit like
> the FAA certificates are; i.e., valid doesn't necessarily mean current,
> but 61.75 only requires the foreign license to be valid, but I am
digressing
> again here);
>
> --Sylvain

What happens is that if you have an old brown licence Pre 1994 and tell the
CAA you have moved or got a new rating, then you get a nice new white paper
bundle and the licence number is different based on the old medical
reference.

It sort of creeps up on you.

[Sylvain]

"S Green" > wrote in message
> What happens is that if you have an old brown licence Pre 1994 and tell the
> CAA you have moved or got a new rating, then you get a nice new white paper
> bundle and the licence number is different based on the old medical
> reference.
>
> It sort of creeps up on you.

ok, I understand now. I religiously refrained from doing anything
that might modify my British PPL(A) -- such as adding ratings which
I believe I could have done -- just worrying about something like that
(and the fact that the CAA requires you to send your original logbook(s)
-- copies won't do, even notarized -- and license over to them in order
to do anything); moving however never was a problem (did it a couple of
times); I will probably apply for a JAR license by exchanging
my good ol' PPL(A) eventually (as soon as I no longer have any dependency
upon it; digressing again, the weird thing is that the only dependency
left is my glider rating even though there was no such thing in UK at the
time, but that's a different story altogether :-)))

--Sylvain