Ballooning!

[Tony Cox]

I had the joy of logging my first 0.2 hours in a hot
air balloon last weekend over the Jean dry lake (near
Las Vegas). It's interesting how much fun you can have
with just one control -- a little lever which switches on
the burner. Strangely, it wasn't that difficult to control
the vertical velocity - well, when you consider that that
lever actually controls the first derivative with a 3-second
time delay that is.

Here are some things that surprised me.

1) Hot air balloons use about 15 gals of propane/hour,
which isn't vastly different from my 182 burn.

2) Wind shear, in this case at about 500 AGL and again
at 1500AGL was extraordinarily strong even on a calm
day. A full 10 knot blast as we ascended, when the canopy
caught the wind before us humans transitioned into the
zone too.

3) Wake turbulence from ground traffic (a truck in this
case) is noticeable even if you are 100 ft up.


All in all, a fun day. Give it a try if you have a chance!

--
Dr. Tony Cox
Citrus Controls Inc.
e-mail:
http://CitrusControls.com/

[William W. Plummer]

Yes! And, although you might invent reasons to fly airplanes (commute,
work, etc), none of these stand up to analysis. There is only one reason
to fly balloons -- it's just plain fun. But expensive, much more than
airplanes.


"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> I had the joy of logging my first 0.2 hours in a hot
> air balloon last weekend over the Jean dry lake (near
> Las Vegas). It's interesting how much fun you can have
> with just one control -- a little lever which switches on
> the burner. Strangely, it wasn't that difficult to control
> the vertical velocity - well, when you consider that that
> lever actually controls the first derivative with a 3-second
> time delay that is.
>
> Here are some things that surprised me.
>
> 1) Hot air balloons use about 15 gals of propane/hour,
> which isn't vastly different from my 182 burn.
>
> 2) Wind shear, in this case at about 500 AGL and again
> at 1500AGL was extraordinarily strong even on a calm
> day. A full 10 knot blast as we ascended, when the canopy
> caught the wind before us humans transitioned into the
> zone too.
>
> 3) Wake turbulence from ground traffic (a truck in this
> case) is noticeable even if you are 100 ft up.
>
>
> All in all, a fun day. Give it a try if you have a chance!
>
> --
> Dr. Tony Cox
> Citrus Controls Inc.
> e-mail:
> http://CitrusControls.com/
>
>

[Paul Sengupta]

My reason to fly aeroplanes...it's just plain fun.

Paul

"William W. Plummer" > wrote in message
news:WFB8c.5641$gA5.90576@attbi_s03...
> Yes! And, although you might invent reasons to fly airplanes (commute,
> work, etc), none of these stand up to analysis. There is only one reason
> to fly balloons -- it's just plain fun. But expensive, much more than
> airplanes.

[Gene Seibel]

Balloons are a great trip. Love 'em. ;)
--
Gene Seibel
http://www.pad39a.com/gene/balloons.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



"Tony Cox" > wrote in message .net>...
> I had the joy of logging my first 0.2 hours in a hot
> air balloon last weekend over the Jean dry lake (near
> Las Vegas). It's interesting how much fun you can have
> with just one control -- a little lever which switches on
> the burner. Strangely, it wasn't that difficult to control
> the vertical velocity - well, when you consider that that
> lever actually controls the first derivative with a 3-second
> time delay that is.
>
> Here are some things that surprised me.
>
> 1) Hot air balloons use about 15 gals of propane/hour,
> which isn't vastly different from my 182 burn.
>
> 2) Wind shear, in this case at about 500 AGL and again
> at 1500AGL was extraordinarily strong even on a calm
> day. A full 10 knot blast as we ascended, when the canopy
> caught the wind before us humans transitioned into the
> zone too.
>
> 3) Wake turbulence from ground traffic (a truck in this
> case) is noticeable even if you are 100 ft up.
>
>
> All in all, a fun day. Give it a try if you have a chance!

[gerrcoin]

Tony Cox wrote:
> 1) Hot air balloons use about 15 gals of propane/hour,
> which isn't vastly different from my 182 burn.

Yes, but isn't that 15 gals of a gas volume (ie less density).
In terms of lbs/hr of fuel burned it should work out at a lot less. I
would imagine that baloons are a hell of a lot more efficient than
aircraft in terms of endurance but when you start counting in range
efficiency...

[gerrcoin]

William W. Plummer wrote:
> Yes! And, although you might invent reasons to fly airplanes (commute,
> work, etc), none of these stand up to analysis. There is only one reason
> to fly balloons -- it's just plain fun. But expensive, much more than
> airplanes.
>
And there's always the pesky problem of filing flight plans.
Destination....Downwind.

Plus I had the opportunity to witness one of those things landing near
my house once. They got pulled through two sets of trees, plonked on
the ground and fell over, after which the basket got dragged for a
further 30 or 40 ft. All part of the magic I guess.

[Tony Cox]

"gerrcoin" > wrote in message
...
> Tony Cox wrote:
> > 1) Hot air balloons use about 15 gals of propane/hour,
> > which isn't vastly different from my 182 burn.
>
> Yes, but isn't that 15 gals of a gas volume (ie less density).

No, it is 15 gals of LPG. Which, energy wise, is about the
equivalent of 8 gals of avgas I believe. LPG weighs 4lbs/gal

> In terms of lbs/hr of fuel burned it should work out at a lot less. I
> would imagine that baloons are a hell of a lot more efficient than
> aircraft in terms of endurance but when you start counting in range
> efficiency...

Well it isn't, and they aren't. That surprised me too.

[William W. Plummer]

We figure 5 lb per gal for no-lead.

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
.net...
> "gerrcoin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Tony Cox wrote:
> > > 1) Hot air balloons use about 15 gals of propane/hour,
> > > which isn't vastly different from my 182 burn.
> >
> > Yes, but isn't that 15 gals of a gas volume (ie less density).
>
> No, it is 15 gals of LPG. Which, energy wise, is about the
> equivalent of 8 gals of avgas I believe. LPG weighs 4lbs/gal
>
> > In terms of lbs/hr of fuel burned it should work out at a lot less. I
> > would imagine that baloons are a hell of a lot more efficient than
> > aircraft in terms of endurance but when you start counting in range
> > efficiency...
>
> Well it isn't, and they aren't. That surprised me too.
>
>

[lance smith]

Good post! Are you taking lessons in ballooning? Keep us tuned in,
this was a very informative post and I'd like to learn more.

-lance smith


"Tony Cox" > wrote in message .net>...
> I had the joy of logging my first 0.2 hours in a hot
> air balloon last weekend over the Jean dry lake (near
> Las Vegas). It's interesting how much fun you can have
> with just one control -- a little lever which switches on
> the burner. Strangely, it wasn't that difficult to control
> the vertical velocity - well, when you consider that that
> lever actually controls the first derivative with a 3-second
> time delay that is.
>
> Here are some things that surprised me.
>
> 1) Hot air balloons use about 15 gals of propane/hour,
> which isn't vastly different from my 182 burn.
>
> 2) Wind shear, in this case at about 500 AGL and again
> at 1500AGL was extraordinarily strong even on a calm
> day. A full 10 knot blast as we ascended, when the canopy
> caught the wind before us humans transitioned into the
> zone too.
>
> 3) Wake turbulence from ground traffic (a truck in this
> case) is noticeable even if you are 100 ft up.
>
>
> All in all, a fun day. Give it a try if you have a chance!

[Tony Cox]

"lance smith" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Good post! Are you taking lessons in ballooning? Keep us tuned in,
> this was a very informative post and I'd like to learn more.

I'm probably not going to get rated. It's hard enough to
find the time and money to enjoy my 182! Perhaps when
I retire.

The ballooning crowd are quite a sociable bunch. It's not
surprising really -- you need to have a ground crew unless
you are real hard-core. That's how I got my ride - I crewed
a couple of times after helping when one landed behind the
house. I'm exchanging plane rides now - both folks can
learn a lot from each other. Did you know that a balloon
can easily outclimb most GA planes? Nor did I, and they
get to have the official right-of-way! Sheesh. And I swear
none of them have ever seen a sectional. Scary.

[John Harlow]

> I had the joy of logging my first 0.2 hours in a hot
> air balloon last weekend

Whew! I thought this was going to be another commentary on my landings ;-D

[ET]

"Tony Cox" > wrote in news:2BL8c.885$Dv2.625
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> "lance smith" > wrote in message
> om...
>>
>> Good post! Are you taking lessons in ballooning? Keep us tuned in,
>> this was a very informative post and I'd like to learn more.
>
> I'm probably not going to get rated. It's hard enough to
> find the time and money to enjoy my 182! Perhaps when
> I retire.
>
> The ballooning crowd are quite a sociable bunch. It's not
> surprising really -- you need to have a ground crew unless
> you are real hard-core. That's how I got my ride - I crewed
> a couple of times after helping when one landed behind the
> house. I'm exchanging plane rides now - both folks can
> learn a lot from each other. Did you know that a balloon
> can easily outclimb most GA planes? Nor did I, and they
> get to have the official right-of-way! Sheesh. And I swear
> none of them have ever seen a sectional. Scary.
>
>
>
>

HA! your in trouble now.... exchanging plane rides (thing of value) for
baloon rides (thing of value) part 135 right??? ;-)




--
ET >:) --- (ducking and running)


"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Jay Honeck]

> Yes! And, although you might invent reasons to fly airplanes (commute,
> work, etc), none of these stand up to analysis.

Hmmm. I can't say as I would agree with that assessment.

I can justify flying airplanes in many ways, not the least of which is
transportation. The ability (and knowledge that I can do so) to be in
Florida in 6.5 hours is worth a lot to me.

Not to say that ballooning doesn't sound like a great way to spend the day!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:l1n9c.109154$Cb.1326630@attbi_s51...
> > Yes! And, although you might invent reasons to fly airplanes
(commute,
> > work, etc), none of these stand up to analysis.
>
> Hmmm. I can't say as I would agree with that assessment.
>
> I can justify flying airplanes in many ways, not the least of which is
> transportation. The ability (and knowledge that I can do so) to be in
> Florida in 6.5 hours is worth a lot to me.
>
> Not to say that ballooning doesn't sound like a great way to spend the
day!

But ballooning is not quite the thrill as a hop in a Waco YMF-5! :~)

[William W. Plummer]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:l1n9c.109154$Cb.1326630@attbi_s51...

> I can justify flying airplanes in many ways, not the least of which is
> transportation. The ability (and knowledge that I can do so) to be in
> Florida in 6.5 hours is worth a lot to me.
You have a nice (fast) airplane.

> Not to say that ballooning doesn't sound like a great way to spend the
day!
Usually we lift off at sunrise and we're back for breakfast around 8:30 AM

[Michael]

gerrcoin > wrote
> Plus I had the opportunity to witness one of those things landing near
> my house once. They got pulled through two sets of trees, plonked on
> the ground and fell over, after which the basket got dragged for a
> further 30 or 40 ft. All part of the magic I guess.

I've seen some balloon landings. When I finally got the chance to go
up in one, I took it, of course - but I elected not to stay for the
landing. And that's all I have to say about that.

Michael

[gerrcoin]

Michael wrote:
> gerrcoin > wrote
>
>>Plus I had the opportunity to witness one of those things landing near
>>my house once. They got pulled through two sets of trees, plonked on
>>the ground and fell over, after which the basket got dragged for a
>>further 30 or 40 ft. All part of the magic I guess.
>
>
> I've seen some balloon landings. When I finally got the chance to go
> up in one, I took it, of course - but I elected not to stay for the
> landing. And that's all I have to say about that.
>
> Michael

Oh, now I'm intrigued. How did you manage that; parachute, James Bond
style fall stopped by the timely intervention of the millenium dome
(sorry, was watching that last night), Indian rope trick.....

You can't just tease us like that.

[Michael]

gerrcoin > wrote
> Oh, now I'm intrigued. How did you manage that; parachute

Yes, of course. Safest way to terminate a balloon flight, IMO.

I'm not really joking, either. Those balloon landngs are scary
looking. Not saying I wouldn't do it as a pilot - they also look way
cool, and a balloon rating sounds like fun - but to go along for the
ride as a passenger? Nah. Not for me.

Michael

[[email protected]]

I flew hot air balloons for 12 years and never had a scary landing, but some
were quite interesting! I've landed in open fields, peoples back yards,
golf courses, tops of trees, even on a boat once, but I never felt there was
any real danger of serious injury.

Landing a balloon, like landing a fixed wing aircraft is all about energy
management. You want to dissipate that energy slowly, and a balloon has a
LOT more energy to dissipate than a light aircraft because it has more
weight. No way you say? Let me explain.

The balloon I flew had a gross weight of 1660 pounds. Takeoff weight with
me and 3 passengers was usually at least 1550 pounds, similar to a light
aircraft. So we fly for and hour or so and burn off 125-150 pounds of fuel.
Still sounds about like a light aircraft huh? What about that bag of hot
air over your head? My balloon's volume was 90,000 cubic feet, that almost
4 TONS of air thats moving with you. So when it comes time to land and
bring this thing to a stop you aren't trying to stop a 1500 pound aircraft,
you're trying to stop over 9000 pounds!!

Time to land, so we look for a decent field (actually we've been looking
during the entire flight). Lets say its an afternoon flight and the wind
is still 5 knots when it's time to land. We were hoping the wind would
disipate as sunset approached, but these things happen. Ideally we try to
find a landing spot sheltered by trees, but lets say we can't. We find an
open field and decend slowly, after all 5 knots is only a brisk walking
pace. When the basket touches down it stops, BUT the envelope (the balloon
part) continues to move. Just before the basket touches down we pull the
line attached to the parachute shaped valve in the top of the envelope to
allow the air to start to escape, reducing lift (kinda like dumping the
flaps on a short field landing). The basket tips and drags as we dissipate
energy, all the while the envelope continues to deflate. Maybe we drag
through some grass, bushes, or what have you but we are all safe and sound
in the basket. Rarely would you drag over 50 feet.

Most of the time though the wind has died down during the late afternoon
flight and the conditions at ground level are near calm. A perfect stand up
landing (ballooning equivilant of a greaser) or one or two little hops of
the basket before stopping.

Try it sometime, you might like it.

Rick
Commercial Pilot, ASMEL, Instrument

[Rolf Blom]

On 2004-03-31 16:50, wrote:
> I flew hot air balloons for 12 years and never had a scary landing, but some
> were quite interesting! I've landed in open fields, peoples back yards,
> golf courses, tops of trees, even on a boat once, but I never felt there was
> any real danger of serious injury.
>

-snip-

> Try it sometime, you might like it.
>
> Rick
> Commercial Pilot, ASMEL, Instrument


A now retired workmate told me about when he got a balloon ride
ticket, and had a nice flight; only when they were to land in a small
field, the pilot had to keep away from some wires & set the balloon down
a bit harder than intended.

As the pilot had climbed up to pull the ripcord to open the balloon,
he didn't have a secure footing and fell out of the ballon on touchdown.
The balloon then bounced and plonked down the basket with a all
passengers still inside, right onto the pilot, knocking him out.

The pilot was unconcious, but the pax & balloon were all ok.
Someone called paramedics but forgot to find out their landing
location so the SOS switchboard was thinking it was a hoax...
` -What do you mean, you don't know where you are???'

The balloon-recovery cars appeared soon enough to help out.
(Pilot recovered OK, if slightly worse for wear.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wouldn't hesitate taking a ride, seems safe enough unless you climb
out of the sardine box...

/Rolf

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Michael wrote:
> gerrcoin > wrote
>> Oh, now I'm intrigued. How did you manage that; parachute
>
> Yes, of course. Safest way to terminate a balloon flight, IMO.

I have taken a balloon flight. When I lived in Houston, if it was a nice
Sunday, sometimes I'd get to do three categories of aircraft in a day -
early morning, crew my friend's balloon, then fly the C140 to the glider
club and go soaring. Best way to spend a Sunday, IMHO.

I did get a ride in the balloon, and it was good fun. The landing was a
non-event because the wind wasn't strong. But I've seen the other side
of the balloon ride...

Balloons have very low windspeed launch limitations - usually around
8-10 knots or so. I was crewing for a student balloon pilot one morning,
and the wind was around 10 knots. She decided it was too much. However,
one of the Alvin ballooners only flies when it *is* windy. Carla decided
to fly with him to get the experience of high wind flight.

Normally, balloon chasing is more
balloon-sitting-in-a-gas-station-and-drinking-coffee. You drive the van
a mile or so and get out the Thermos, and wait for the balloon to drift
by. Then you start up, drive a bit more, and wait again. The pilot
normally radios you when she's about to land, at which point you stick
with the balloon.

Well, there was no coffee this morning. After a rather frightening
launch (we started tethered to the van, and the huge sail area of the
inflating balloon seemed to want to take the van with it), off they
went. Balloons look weird when they launch when there's a bit of wind -
they sort of oscillate and billow like a vast blancmange for a while.

Then the chase was on. The winds aloft must have been in excess of 40
knots. We couldn't keep up - the balloon of course going straight
downwind, and us in the van having to follow the whims of the road. We
were doing over 60 most of the time, and the balloon was still getting
away from us. We got to the field they landed in after the fact, and
there were deep drag marks in the grass for quite some distance. No one
fell out of the basket. Carla said it was "exciting".

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> Dylan Smith > wrote:

> the balloon of course going straight downwind, and us
> in the van having to follow the whims of the road.

Just out of curiousity Dylan, and to others with ballooning
experience.... Just what sort of receptions have you run into,
when landing on private property etc.

[William W. Plummer]

"Shiver Me Timbers" > wrote in message
...
> Just what sort of receptions have you run into,
> when landing on private property etc.

In general receptions have been fine. Lots of interest. If we have some
propane left, we tether the balloon and take neighbors and kids up for a
quick trip. Also, if we land on private property, we give the owner a
bottle of wine and do the "ceremony" and explain a bit of ballooning history
and why we are giving the wine. Some people I have flown with also have a
little table, crackers and cheese. There is not much to complain about.
But, I do remember a guy crabbing about the burner waking him up -- he
turned down the offer of a free ride. If the owner appears before we land,
we always ask for permission and no one has ever declined. Sometimes they
actually bring out a pot of coffee.

There was a time when we had to do a rip landing in to this lady's side
yard. But that was after we spent a half hour getting out of the trees --
nearly out of fuel, we had used the drop line to catch a tree branch in
order to stop moving so we could get into the postage stamp yard. The
neighbors didn't know what to make of us up there trying to free the line.
They called the police who came and offered assistance, but we didn't need
it. But then they started ask, "are you legal?", "What's the FAA say about
this?". They were convinced we were violating some law but just couldn't
figure out what it was! We got down, put the lady in the basked with her
bottle of wine and took a photo. The local paper published it on the front
page.

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Shiver Me Timbers wrote:
> Just out of curiousity Dylan, and to others with ballooning
> experience.... Just what sort of receptions have you run into,
> when landing on private property etc.

Most people are welcoming, a few are grouchy.

The ones who don't like balloons have their land marked in red on a
chart so we know not to land there.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"