Logbooks

[[email protected]]

Any comments wrt purchasing a glider without a complete logbook? Missing from TTSN "0"?

Looking opinions/comments/etc?

r/Jim

[Bill T]

Without a complete logbook, or without any logbook. Missing since TTSN =0?

Is there a record of registration, certificate of airworthiness?
FAA records on a CD can be ordered for about $10. That might yield some information. Hours when 337s were filed or if hours were reported as part of a bill of sale. Not always but you never know what some people may include that becomes an "official record".

All ADs would need to be reacomplishlished. If an AD said, "replace part" you'll need to find the part and replace it, because you don't know if it has been changed or not. So replace it. Are the parts still available from the manufacturer?

I would expect that any life limiting inspections and parts replacements would need to be completed. You don't know hours or years on the parts that are replaced on life extension inspections.

So I guess the question is, how much work are you prepared to do?

Bill T

[Bob Cook[_2_]]

The guy who now owns the glider without a log book has a problem...a big
problem....he wants to get rid of the big problem...he want to pass off the
big problem to you...

Then you will have a big problem and he will be happy!


Cookie




At 01:42 12 July 2013, wrote:
>Any comments wrt purchasing a glider without a complete logbook? Missing
>from TTSN "0"?
>
>Looking opinions/comments/etc?
>
>r/Jim
>

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:42:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Any comments wrt purchasing a glider without a complete logbook? Missing from TTSN "0"?
>
>
>
> Looking opinions/comments/etc?
>
>
>
> r/Jim

The fact that you're asking gives you part of your answer. It immediately raises eyebrows and certainly has an impact on the sale price. I'm a part owner of a glider that required some detective work to rebuild its history, and I can tell you it was a little nerve wracking (we only found out about the gap after the purchase - long story).

As mentioned above, you may be able to retrace some of the history from the FAA records. Also, check the NTSB database on any known N-Numbers assigned to the ship; you may find out info there (hopefully not). Finally, if you can find out about any prior owners, try calling them. I've done this on several sales, and I always found out interesting things (like a seller who listed an LS4 as "refinished" when in fact the "refinish" was just a quick touch up on the top half of the fuselage by the prior owner).

I know some of the repair shops that participate on this board from time to time will have some good advice on re-establishing the history/total time.

[Andy[_1_]]

On the positive side you'd be buying a glider with "no damage history". That worth a lot!

Andy

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:42:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Any comments wrt purchasing a glider without a complete logbook? Missing from TTSN "0"? Looking opinions/comments/etc? r/Jim

It would very much depend on the records that are available.
If "second" log book documents that first was destroyed and records reconstructed in a proper way, it may not be a huge deal.
It also depends to a real degree on the glider. I wouldn't be too concerned if this was the case on a 1-26, but a glider with a life limit like the Pegasus would obviously be an entirely different deal.
AD compliance could be anything from trivial to a really expensive issue depending on the glider.
When all is said and done, remember that the person buying it next will ask the same question and it will affect selling price and ability to sell.
Getting the advice of someone with experience with the type glider would be invaluable.
Proceed with due caution.
Good luck
UH

[Soartech]

Why not just ask the former owner who did the annual inspections?
They may have a record of hours from each year.

[Josh Fletcher]

No Logbooks means the aircraft is worth, at best, half its normal market value.

At least this is the gouge we use in powered aircraft world.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:42:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Any comments wrt purchasing a glider without a complete logbook? Missing from TTSN "0"?
>
>
>
> Looking opinions/comments/etc?
>
>
>
> r/Jim

I should have been a little more detailed.
The aircraft is currently flying, has just been through an annual and has a logbook, but, not a complete logbook. The first logbook is missing with approx. 900hrs in it. Current logbook has from that point to 1500 hrs. It is not a Peg, wouldn't buy one anyway because of the issues with it and perceived lack of support.

I was recommended to adjust price/offer by 20% by our local IA.

Thank to all for input, comment on my additions that might clear up some things.

r/Jim

[Bob Cook[_2_]]

The guy who now owns the glider without a log book has a problem...a big
problem....he wants to get rid of the big problem...he want to pass off the
big problem to you...

Then you will have a big problem and he will be happy!


Cookie




At 01:42 12 July 2013, wrote:
>Any comments wrt purchasing a glider without a complete logbook? Missing
>from TTSN "0"?
>
>Looking opinions/comments/etc?
>
>r/Jim
>

[Morgan[_2_]]

This thread does raise an interesting question. What does everyone do to "backup" their logbooks?

If the logbook is 20-50% of the value of the aircraft, I'm guessing that most people aren't protecting their investments nearly enough.

Heading down to photograph all the pages of my logbook now...