Jet A

[Big John]

Guess the only way to stop this type of accident is to get that new
Diesel on the market?

Big John

Extracted from NTSB report.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
report has been completed.

On March 15, 2004, at 0830 central standard time, a Beech A36
single-engine airplane, N789SA, was substantially damaged during a
forced landing following a loss of engine power five miles north of
the Lone Star Regional Airport (CXO), near Conroe, Texas. The
commercial pilot and one of his two passengers sustained serious
injuries. One passenger sustained minor injuries. The airplane was
registered to and operated by the pilot. Instrument metrological
conditions prevailed, and an instrument flight rules flight plan was
filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 business flight.
The cross-country flight originated from CXO at 0825, and was destined
for Wichita, Kansas.

One of the passengers reported that the pilot instructed the Fixed
Base Operator to "top off the mains and fill the tips half full." The
pilot rated passenger also stated that he did not see the pilot
conduct his preflight, but the pilot mentioned to him that he checked
the oil. The passenger checked the fuel tanks to see if "the fuel
instructions had been completed," and the mains were full and the tip
tanks were half full." At this time, the passenger "did not notice
anything unusual."

The passenger informed the pilot that he had some work to finish and
wanted to sit in the back. Due to the request of the pilot, he set in
one of the seats facing backwards. The passenger also stated that the
pilot started the engine and "no unusual sounds " were heard." While
the pilot was going through his checklist, "the engine quit" and the
pilot commented "hmm, never done that before." The pilot restarted the
engine, and taxied out to the run-up area. Shortly after takeoff, the
passenger stated he noted "the humming of the engine was not the
humming sound that he was used to hearing in that [air]plane." The
engine was "starting to misfire and sputter," as the passenger
observed the pilot turning back toward the airport, "because of the
unusual engine noises." Subsequently, at an altitude of 2,000 feet,
"the engine quit and the airplane was in a steep what seemed to be a
slip." The airplane impacted soft terrain near a residential area and
came to rest upright.

Examination of the airplane by the FAA inspector, who responded to the
accident site, revealed both main landing gears were crushed upward
through both wing structures. The engine was partially separated from
the airframe, and the fuel selector was observed in the "right"
position. Examination of the aircraft fuel tanks revealed both wingtip
tanks and main tanks were compromised. A "small sample of fuel
consistent with 100 low lead fuel" was extracted from the left main
fuel tank. A four-ounce fuel sample from the left wingtip tank was
"consistent with JET-A fuel."

The manager of the fixed base operator (FBO) where the aircraft was
last refueled reported that the fuel truck log sheets and interviews
with company personnel indicated the airplane was refueled with 53
gallons of JET-A fuel. The lineman, who refueled the aircraft,
reported he put 10 gallons in each wingtip tank and 33 gallons into
both main wing fuel tanks. The manager stated the lineman was recently
moved to the lineman position and had previously refueled four jets
earlier that morning using the JET-A truck with supervision of another
lineman.

At 0853, the automated weather observing system at CXO reported the
wind calm, visibility 3/4 statute mile, 100-foot overcast, temperature
61 degrees Fahrenheit, dew point 61 degrees Fahrenheit, and an
altimeter setting of 30.09 inches of Mercury.

[Jay Honeck]

> fuel tank. A four-ounce fuel sample from the left wingtip tank was
> "consistent with JET-A fuel."

That's one reason I always watch the FBO refuel my plane.

Well, that and the mysterious dent in the leading edge of my wing that
appeared one day, after an FBO refueled me.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Sixkiller]

"rip" > wrote in message
om...
> Jesus, didn't the Feds fix this problem 20+ years ago with their nozzle
> restrictor campaign? Your tax dollars at work.

Line people on drugs?

[BTIZ]

sounds like a law suit...

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> Guess the only way to stop this type of accident is to get that new
> Diesel on the market?
>
> Big John
>
> Extracted from NTSB report.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
> report has been completed.
>
> On March 15, 2004, at 0830 central standard time, a Beech A36
> single-engine airplane, N789SA, was substantially damaged during a
> forced landing following a loss of engine power five miles north of
> the Lone Star Regional Airport (CXO), near Conroe, Texas. The
> commercial pilot and one of his two passengers sustained serious
> injuries. One passenger sustained minor injuries. The airplane was
> registered to and operated by the pilot. Instrument metrological
> conditions prevailed, and an instrument flight rules flight plan was
> filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 business flight.
> The cross-country flight originated from CXO at 0825, and was destined
> for Wichita, Kansas.
>
> One of the passengers reported that the pilot instructed the Fixed
> Base Operator to "top off the mains and fill the tips half full." The
> pilot rated passenger also stated that he did not see the pilot
> conduct his preflight, but the pilot mentioned to him that he checked
> the oil. The passenger checked the fuel tanks to see if "the fuel
> instructions had been completed," and the mains were full and the tip
> tanks were half full." At this time, the passenger "did not notice
> anything unusual."
>
> The passenger informed the pilot that he had some work to finish and
> wanted to sit in the back. Due to the request of the pilot, he set in
> one of the seats facing backwards. The passenger also stated that the
> pilot started the engine and "no unusual sounds " were heard." While
> the pilot was going through his checklist, "the engine quit" and the
> pilot commented "hmm, never done that before." The pilot restarted the
> engine, and taxied out to the run-up area. Shortly after takeoff, the
> passenger stated he noted "the humming of the engine was not the
> humming sound that he was used to hearing in that [air]plane." The
> engine was "starting to misfire and sputter," as the passenger
> observed the pilot turning back toward the airport, "because of the
> unusual engine noises." Subsequently, at an altitude of 2,000 feet,
> "the engine quit and the airplane was in a steep what seemed to be a
> slip." The airplane impacted soft terrain near a residential area and
> came to rest upright.
>
> Examination of the airplane by the FAA inspector, who responded to the
> accident site, revealed both main landing gears were crushed upward
> through both wing structures. The engine was partially separated from
> the airframe, and the fuel selector was observed in the "right"
> position. Examination of the aircraft fuel tanks revealed both wingtip
> tanks and main tanks were compromised. A "small sample of fuel
> consistent with 100 low lead fuel" was extracted from the left main
> fuel tank. A four-ounce fuel sample from the left wingtip tank was
> "consistent with JET-A fuel."
>
> The manager of the fixed base operator (FBO) where the aircraft was
> last refueled reported that the fuel truck log sheets and interviews
> with company personnel indicated the airplane was refueled with 53
> gallons of JET-A fuel. The lineman, who refueled the aircraft,
> reported he put 10 gallons in each wingtip tank and 33 gallons into
> both main wing fuel tanks. The manager stated the lineman was recently
> moved to the lineman position and had previously refueled four jets
> earlier that morning using the JET-A truck with supervision of another
> lineman.
>
> At 0853, the automated weather observing system at CXO reported the
> wind calm, visibility 3/4 statute mile, 100-foot overcast, temperature
> 61 degrees Fahrenheit, dew point 61 degrees Fahrenheit, and an
> altimeter setting of 30.09 inches of Mercury.
>
>
>
>

[Tony Cox]

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
>
> Extracted from NTSB report.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
> report has been completed.
>
> On March 15, 2004, at 0830 central standard time, a Beech A36...

Seems to be a rash of them. Here's another just 4 days before.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20040325X00370&ntsbno=LAX04CA153&akey=1

"During a telephone interview with the National Transportation Safety Board
investigator-in-charge (IIC), the operator stated that, while at the fuel
island, a new employee had mistakenly filled the fuel truck with Jet-A fuel.
The employee then used the Jet-A fuel in the truck to refuel the airplane.
In an effort to help avoid similar problems, the operated has ordered new
nozzles for the fueling points to help distinguish the Jet-A tank from the
Avgas tank."

[rip]

Jesus, didn't the Feds fix this problem 20+ years ago with their nozzle
restrictor campaign? Your tax dollars at work.

Big John wrote:
> Guess the only way to stop this type of accident is to get that new
> Diesel on the market?
>
> Big John
>
> Extracted from NTSB report.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
> report has been completed.
>
> On March 15, 2004, at 0830 central standard time, a Beech A36
> single-engine airplane, N789SA, was substantially damaged during a
> forced landing following a loss of engine power five miles north of
> the Lone Star Regional Airport (CXO), near Conroe, Texas. The
> commercial pilot and one of his two passengers sustained serious
> injuries. One passenger sustained minor injuries. The airplane was
> registered to and operated by the pilot. Instrument metrological
> conditions prevailed, and an instrument flight rules flight plan was
> filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 business flight.
> The cross-country flight originated from CXO at 0825, and was destined
> for Wichita, Kansas.
>
> One of the passengers reported that the pilot instructed the Fixed
> Base Operator to "top off the mains and fill the tips half full." The
> pilot rated passenger also stated that he did not see the pilot
> conduct his preflight, but the pilot mentioned to him that he checked
> the oil. The passenger checked the fuel tanks to see if "the fuel
> instructions had been completed," and the mains were full and the tip
> tanks were half full." At this time, the passenger "did not notice
> anything unusual."
>
> The passenger informed the pilot that he had some work to finish and
> wanted to sit in the back. Due to the request of the pilot, he set in
> one of the seats facing backwards. The passenger also stated that the
> pilot started the engine and "no unusual sounds " were heard." While
> the pilot was going through his checklist, "the engine quit" and the
> pilot commented "hmm, never done that before." The pilot restarted the
> engine, and taxied out to the run-up area. Shortly after takeoff, the
> passenger stated he noted "the humming of the engine was not the
> humming sound that he was used to hearing in that [air]plane." The
> engine was "starting to misfire and sputter," as the passenger
> observed the pilot turning back toward the airport, "because of the
> unusual engine noises." Subsequently, at an altitude of 2,000 feet,
> "the engine quit and the airplane was in a steep what seemed to be a
> slip." The airplane impacted soft terrain near a residential area and
> came to rest upright.
>
> Examination of the airplane by the FAA inspector, who responded to the
> accident site, revealed both main landing gears were crushed upward
> through both wing structures. The engine was partially separated from
> the airframe, and the fuel selector was observed in the "right"
> position. Examination of the aircraft fuel tanks revealed both wingtip
> tanks and main tanks were compromised. A "small sample of fuel
> consistent with 100 low lead fuel" was extracted from the left main
> fuel tank. A four-ounce fuel sample from the left wingtip tank was
> "consistent with JET-A fuel."
>
> The manager of the fixed base operator (FBO) where the aircraft was
> last refueled reported that the fuel truck log sheets and interviews
> with company personnel indicated the airplane was refueled with 53
> gallons of JET-A fuel. The lineman, who refueled the aircraft,
> reported he put 10 gallons in each wingtip tank and 33 gallons into
> both main wing fuel tanks. The manager stated the lineman was recently
> moved to the lineman position and had previously refueled four jets
> earlier that morning using the JET-A truck with supervision of another
> lineman.
>
> At 0853, the automated weather observing system at CXO reported the
> wind calm, visibility 3/4 statute mile, 100-foot overcast, temperature
> 61 degrees Fahrenheit, dew point 61 degrees Fahrenheit, and an
> altimeter setting of 30.09 inches of Mercury.
>
>
>
>

[Peter Duniho]

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> Guess the only way to stop this type of accident is to get that new
> Diesel on the market?

Only if you also eliminate all kinds of fuel but Jet-A, and mandate that
every single airplane be retrofitted with a diesel.

In other words...duh, getting a new diesel on the market isn't going to do
anything "top stop this type of accident".

[Bob Chilcoat]

The fun will begin when the diesel-retrofitted Cherokees and 172's start
asking for Jet A. The pilots will have to watch like hawks to make sure 100
LL doesn't end up in their tanks.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Big John" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Guess the only way to stop this type of accident is to get that new
> > Diesel on the market?
>
> Only if you also eliminate all kinds of fuel but Jet-A, and mandate that
> every single airplane be retrofitted with a diesel.
>
> In other words...duh, getting a new diesel on the market isn't going to do
> anything "top stop this type of accident".
>
>

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"Peter Duniho" > writes:

> "Big John" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Guess the only way to stop this type of accident is to get that new
>> Diesel on the market?
>
> Only if you also eliminate all kinds of fuel but Jet-A, and mandate that
> every single airplane be retrofitted with a diesel.
>
> In other words...duh, getting a new diesel on the market isn't going to do
> anything "top stop this type of accident".

In fact, getting small single-engine diesel prop planes on the market
will *add* to the confusion -- right now, small single-engine planes
can be relatively safely assumed to be gasoline-powered. (Sure, I
know one shouldn't fuel based on just assumption; but unusual
instructions can and should be double-checked, and that would
eliminated *some* mistakes.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Jeremy Lew]

Is this the kind of thing which can be caught by looking at the color of the
fuel in the fuel tester? I don't know the color of Jet A, but I was taught
to look for the blue color and that if two kinds of fuel are mixed it all
turns gray. Anyone know if in practice this would be easily detectable in
the fuel strainer?

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> Guess the only way to stop this type of accident is to get that new
> Diesel on the market?
>
> Big John
>
> Extracted from NTSB report.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
> report has been completed.
>
> On March 15, 2004, at 0830 central standard time, a Beech A36
> single-engine airplane, N789SA, was substantially damaged during a
> forced landing following a loss of engine power five miles north of
> the Lone Star Regional Airport (CXO), near Conroe, Texas. The
> commercial pilot and one of his two passengers sustained serious
> injuries. One passenger sustained minor injuries. The airplane was
> registered to and operated by the pilot. Instrument metrological
> conditions prevailed, and an instrument flight rules flight plan was
> filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 business flight.
> The cross-country flight originated from CXO at 0825, and was destined
> for Wichita, Kansas.
>
> One of the passengers reported that the pilot instructed the Fixed
> Base Operator to "top off the mains and fill the tips half full." The
> pilot rated passenger also stated that he did not see the pilot
> conduct his preflight, but the pilot mentioned to him that he checked
> the oil. The passenger checked the fuel tanks to see if "the fuel
> instructions had been completed," and the mains were full and the tip
> tanks were half full." At this time, the passenger "did not notice
> anything unusual."
>
> The passenger informed the pilot that he had some work to finish and
> wanted to sit in the back. Due to the request of the pilot, he set in
> one of the seats facing backwards. The passenger also stated that the
> pilot started the engine and "no unusual sounds " were heard." While
> the pilot was going through his checklist, "the engine quit" and the
> pilot commented "hmm, never done that before." The pilot restarted the
> engine, and taxied out to the run-up area. Shortly after takeoff, the
> passenger stated he noted "the humming of the engine was not the
> humming sound that he was used to hearing in that [air]plane." The
> engine was "starting to misfire and sputter," as the passenger
> observed the pilot turning back toward the airport, "because of the
> unusual engine noises." Subsequently, at an altitude of 2,000 feet,
> "the engine quit and the airplane was in a steep what seemed to be a
> slip." The airplane impacted soft terrain near a residential area and
> came to rest upright.
>
> Examination of the airplane by the FAA inspector, who responded to the
> accident site, revealed both main landing gears were crushed upward
> through both wing structures. The engine was partially separated from
> the airframe, and the fuel selector was observed in the "right"
> position. Examination of the aircraft fuel tanks revealed both wingtip
> tanks and main tanks were compromised. A "small sample of fuel
> consistent with 100 low lead fuel" was extracted from the left main
> fuel tank. A four-ounce fuel sample from the left wingtip tank was
> "consistent with JET-A fuel."
>
> The manager of the fixed base operator (FBO) where the aircraft was
> last refueled reported that the fuel truck log sheets and interviews
> with company personnel indicated the airplane was refueled with 53
> gallons of JET-A fuel. The lineman, who refueled the aircraft,
> reported he put 10 gallons in each wingtip tank and 33 gallons into
> both main wing fuel tanks. The manager stated the lineman was recently
> moved to the lineman position and had previously refueled four jets
> earlier that morning using the JET-A truck with supervision of another
> lineman.
>
> At 0853, the automated weather observing system at CXO reported the
> wind calm, visibility 3/4 statute mile, 100-foot overcast, temperature
> 61 degrees Fahrenheit, dew point 61 degrees Fahrenheit, and an
> altimeter setting of 30.09 inches of Mercury.
>
>
>
>

[jsmith]

Jet A you smell and put a drop on a white piece of paper. Avgas
evaporates, Jet A leaves a ring.

Jeremy Lew wrote:
> Is this the kind of thing which can be caught by looking at the color of the
> fuel in the fuel tester? I don't know the color of Jet A, but I was taught
> to look for the blue color and that if two kinds of fuel are mixed it all
> turns gray. Anyone know if in practice this would be easily detectable in
> the fuel strainer?

[Ash Wyllie]

jsmith opined

>Jet A you smell and put a drop on a white piece of paper. Avgas
>evaporates, Jet A leaves a ring.

Some of the newest testers have a ball that sinks in Avgas and floats in JetA
(and water).

>Jeremy Lew wrote:
>> Is this the kind of thing which can be caught by looking at the color of
>> the fuel in the fuel tester? I don't know the color of Jet A, but I was
>> taught to look for the blue color and that if two kinds of fuel are mixed
>> it all turns gray. Anyone know if in practice this would be easily
>> detectable in the fuel strainer?


-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

[[email protected]]

Jeremy Lew > wrote:
> Is this the kind of thing which can be caught by looking at the color of the
> fuel in the fuel tester? I don't know the color of Jet A, but I was taught
> to look for the blue color and that if two kinds of fuel are mixed it all
> turns gray. Anyone know if in practice this would be easily detectable in
> the fuel strainer?

Please, please go DO the EXPERIMENT. It does NOT TURN GRAY!

The CHEMISTRY of the colored fuels will turn them CLEAR when mixed.

Mixing 100LL and Jet A will look very light blue, but smell wrong and
feel oily.


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!

[lance smith]

Mixing fuels (and associated dyes) doesn't do anything weird
chemistry-wise. 100LL + JetA will just dilute the blue dye and the
mixture will look a light blue like Jer said. So if you mix 80 + 100LL
you get purple (red + blue). Try it, no fuel dye combination makes
gray.

-lance smith


wrote in message >...
> Jeremy Lew > wrote:
> > Is this the kind of thing which can be caught by looking at the color of the
> > fuel in the fuel tester? I don't know the color of Jet A, but I was taught
> > to look for the blue color and that if two kinds of fuel are mixed it all
> > turns gray. Anyone know if in practice this would be easily detectable in
> > the fuel strainer?
>
> Please, please go DO the EXPERIMENT. It does NOT TURN GRAY!
>
> The CHEMISTRY of the colored fuels will turn them CLEAR when mixed.
>
> Mixing 100LL and Jet A will look very light blue, but smell wrong and
> feel oily.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard