e Reader options for xc soar?

[Sean F (F2)]

What e Readers are you all using with XC Soar?

Check out this photo. Looks outstanding to me...what product is this? This is a European glider I believe...

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=96fd2857e278434d&id=96FD2857E278434D%21721&authkey=!AA89ng71-Olr8Wc#cid=96FD2857E278434D&id=96FD2857E278434D%211017&authkey=%21AA89ng71-Olr8Wc

Sean

[JP Stewart]

That's the traditional Nook "Simple Touch" http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/nook-simple-touch-barnes-noble/1102344735 I can vouch for it as an e-reader but it is pretty slow for something like xc-soar.

JP

[[email protected]]

I very strongly suspect it is a Nook (from Barnes and Noble). The power button has a distinctive "n" shape to it. I'm not familiar will all the models, but it looks like the http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/nook-simple-touch-barnes-noble/1102344735

I recall reading somewhere that Nooks run a non-standard version of Android, but there are ways to convert them to "normal" Android tablets.

Cheers,
-Mark Rebuck

[Peter Scholz[_3_]]

Am 23.07.2013 16:03, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> What e Readers are you all using with XC Soar?
>
> Check out this photo. Looks outstanding to me...what product is this? This is a European glider I believe...
>
> https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=96fd2857e278434d&id=96FD2857E278434D%21721&authkey=!AA89ng71-Olr8Wc#cid=96FD2857E278434D&id=96FD2857E278434D%211017&authkey=%21AA89ng71-Olr8Wc
>
> Sean
>

XCSoar is also beeing ported to the Kobo mini reader, here you can see a
picture: http://max.kellermann.name/download/xcsoar/screenshots/kobo.jpg

--
Peter Scholz
ASW24 JE

[Dan Marotta]

These new devices are interesting, notwithstanding possible slowness.
However, I wonder how you mount them in the cockpit since they're so large.
Will you make a leg strap or mount it to a stalk? Simply laying it on your
lap could become an expensive surprise when you hit a strong vertical shear
and it rises up and through your canopy!

I made paper cutouts of all my instruments and of various sized Android
devices and tried laying them on a spare uncut panel I have. Not even a 7
inch model could be integrated into my panel and I didn't want a Ram mounted
thing that big blocking the view of my panel.

For now, my Streak on a home made mount works great but I'm always on the
lookout for a suitable replacement.


"Jp Stewart" > wrote in message
...
> That's the traditional Nook "Simple Touch"
> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/nook-simple-touch-barnes-noble/1102344735
> I can vouch for it as an e-reader but it is pretty slow for something like
> xc-soar.
>
> JP

[Mike Hostage]

I am flying with a Nook Simple Touch, loaded with TopHat (a derivative of
XCSoar, see: tophat.freeforums.org), connected to a Cambridge 302. The
display is superb in direct sunlight and the update rate is immaterial,
given that I use the instrument for occasional quick reference, not
detailed and continuous study.

I have mounted the Nook on a stalk attached to the cockpit side rail,
giving me full panel access for regular instruments.

Mike

At 15:23 23 July 2013, Dan Marotta wrote:
>These new devices are interesting, notwithstanding possible slowness.
>However, I wonder how you mount them in the cockpit since they're so
large.
>
>Will you make a leg strap or mount it to a stalk? Simply laying it on
your
>
>lap could become an expensive surprise when you hit a strong vertical
shear
>
>and it rises up and through your canopy!
>
>I made paper cutouts of all my instruments and of various sized Android
>devices and tried laying them on a spare uncut panel I have. Not even a 7

>inch model could be integrated into my panel and I didn't want a Ram
>mounted
>thing that big blocking the view of my panel.
>
>For now, my Streak on a home made mount works great but I'm always on the

>lookout for a suitable replacement.
>
>
>"Jp Stewart" wrote in message
...
>> That's the traditional Nook "Simple Touch"
>>
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/nook-simple-touch-barnes-noble/1102344735
>
>> I can vouch for it as an e-reader but it is pretty slow for something
>like
>> xc-soar.
>>
>> JP
>
>

[AGL]

On Tuesday, 23 July 2013 11:48:07 UTC-4, Mike Hostage wrote:
> I am flying with a Nook Simple Touch, loaded with TopHat (a derivative of
>
> XCSoar, see: tophat.freeforums.org),

Yes, it's a Nook. I have one with TopHat too, but use a USB mouse GPS or my back-up generic Garmin with a serial/usb adapter. I take it home and download the igc file by USB. (ok for the OLC) It works very well so far.

I made custom clips for a RAM-HOL-TAB-SMU with a 1" ball system to the cockpit side rail. It covers the spare Winter mechanical vario I never use.

After flying four hours on the regular 7AH batteries with that and an audio vario, voltage dropped from 12.8 12.6 volts. One day I'll measure the current usage, but it's a non-issue.

I see no indication that it's too slow to do the job. On-line objections about speed or ghosting have been theoretical. Try one! It's cheap enough. :-)

[Kimmo Hytoenen]

This is video of our installation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a28I9u0fYO8

Still some issues with IOIO connection, but I have been flying with
it. It's B&W only, some ghost images, maybe slow... but readability
in glider cockpit is so much better than anything else, that I am
sure that this is the future of PNA devices.

Since viewing angle is practically unlimited, kneeboard use should
be possible.

[[email protected]]

Does the Simple Touch have sound? I know that my old Nook (which I still use) doesn't have any sound, GPS, etc.
I've seen these around for under $50 recently..

[[email protected]]

No sound on the Nook. Someone on the Top Hat site posted a means of getting sound out. Involved extra hardware.

Slow display and ghosting is no problem in my opinion. Seems at least as fast as the PDA's many of us have been using. Getting the nook setup is a bit fiddly, but not at all difficult using the instructions on the Top Hat Soaring site.

[Roel Baardman]

http://forum.xcsoar.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1214

[Dan Marotta]

I present the following not as criticism, but as an alternative for those
who don't want to spend a lot of money.

I looked at RAM mounts for my Streak installation and just couldn't justify
the high price. There's a lot of talk about adjustability but, seriously, I
think that, once you have it adjusted to your preference, you leave it
there. My solution was simple and, most importantly, cheap!

I went to WalMart and bought a universal car cell phone mount. It came with
suction cup and AC vent attachments. Using a hacksaw, I removed the suction
cup base and then, with two adel clamps
(http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wilemanaircraft.com/cat_images/Adel%2520Clamp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wilemanaircraft.com/amelia/search.asp?store%3Dwilemanaircraft%26action%3DSear ch%26ShowDetails%3DTrue%26ShowImages%3DTrue%26cat% 3D87%26subcat_4%3D87&h=142&w=200&sz=36&tbnid=Qd3tRIHfxf7puM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=120&zoom=1&usg=__nderBjIDGhw3nWoEKhpIjmIE0KI=&docid=Glwxp4vkoGoBdM&sa=X&ei=x-DvUeb1JOTAyAGfsoC4Dg&ved=0CDsQ9QEwAg),
a couple of nuts and screws, attached it to the side of my panel above my
knee. After a single adjustment, it's there permanently.


"AGL" > wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday, 23 July 2013 11:48:07 UTC-4, Mike Hostage wrote:
>> I am flying with a Nook Simple Touch, loaded with TopHat (a derivative of
>>
>> XCSoar, see: tophat.freeforums.org),
>
> Yes, it's a Nook. I have one with TopHat too, but use a USB mouse GPS or
> my back-up generic Garmin with a serial/usb adapter. I take it home and
> download the igc file by USB. (ok for the OLC) It works very well so far.
>
> I made custom clips for a RAM-HOL-TAB-SMU with a 1" ball system to the
> cockpit side rail. It covers the spare Winter mechanical vario I never
> use.
>
> After flying four hours on the regular 7AH batteries with that and an
> audio vario, voltage dropped from 12.8 12.6 volts. One day I'll measure
> the current usage, but it's a non-issue.
>
> I see no indication that it's too slow to do the job. On-line objections
> about speed or ghosting have been theoretical. Try one! It's cheap
> enough. :-)

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:03:20 PM UTC+1, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> What e Readers are you all using with XC Soar?

The only e-reader currently planned to be supported by XCSoar is the Kobo Mini, which is 4/5ths the size of the Nook Simple Touch. Its dimensions are similar to 5" PNAs such as the Oudie / Vertica:

Oudie 2 : 135 x 86 x 14 mm
Kobo Mini: 133 x 102 x 10 mm
Nook Simple Touch: 165 x 127 x 12 mm

Top Hat is a derivative ('fork') of XCSoar that does support the Nook.

[Soartech]

> The only e-reader currently planned to be supported by XCSoar is the Kobo Mini.

Well that is unfortunate!
In the USA the Kobo mini is almost unheard of!
I see you can get it on Amazon for $90, about the same as the Nook. But the quality is not as good. Three reviewers out of 12 said " Don't waste your money on this e-reader. "

Just so everyone knows what they are getting into:
Currently, the method of getting XCSoar to run on the Nook is tedious but do-able with the help of the detailed instructions at the TopHat site. It requires a couple of spare micro-SD cards and about an hour. You also have to do some soldering to create a special junction cable that will connect your GPS USB to the Nook and to a 5V USB power source that plugs into your glider's 12V power. This requires purchasing a few male & female USB connectors, a USB cig.lighter charger and a small On-the-Go (OTG) USB adapter cable to fit into the Nook. A really nice hockey-puck GPS module is available for $31 at DX.com. With the ghosting on the screen, I'm not sure it is all worth the effort. My Streak is very clear in the cockpit.

[Mike Hostage]

The Nook has no sound.

Mike


At 01:37 24 July 2013, wrote:
>Does the Simple Touch have sound? I know that my old Nook
(which I still
>use) doesn't have any sound, GPS, etc.
>I've seen these around for under $50 recently..
>

[Sean F (F2)]

Interesting comments. I just upgraded from the streak 5 to an LG Optimus G Pro (latest and greatest android phone at AT&T). It is a even brighter than the streak and has the latest android version so it is very stable. But the contrast of the e reader is exceptional and might be worth a look! Has anyone built an IO board for an eReader?

[Richard[_9_]]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:03:20 AM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> What e Readers are you all using with XC Soar? Check out this photo. Looks outstanding to me...what product is this? This is a European glider I believe... https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=96fd2857e278434d&id=96FD2857E278434D%21721&authkey=!AA89ng71-Olr8Wc#cid=96FD2857E278434D&id=96FD2857E278434D%211017&authkey=%21AA89ng71-Olr8Wc Sean



Use the Walmart Sylvania SDPF785 7" Digital Photo Frame $19.99 with the 4Gig SD card.

Richard

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:04:26 PM UTC+1, Soartech wrote:
> > The only e-reader currently planned to be supported by XCSoar is the Kobo Mini.
>
> Well that is unfortunate!
>
> In the USA the Kobo mini is almost unheard of!
>
> I see you can get it on Amazon for $90, about the same as the Nook. But the quality is not as good. Three reviewers out of 12 said " Don't waste your money on this e-reader. "
>

Check out http://www.kobo.com/kobomini/wheretobuy/

I don't know how they compare for reading, but in the display mode we're using for XCSoar there's no significant difference in quality between the Nook and the Kobo Mini.

Installation of XCSoar on the Kobo Mini will consist of connecting the ereader to a PC and copying a single file to the ereader.

Ghosting is more noticable on e-ink displays at higher temperatures, but it's hard to put figures on it because airflow around the display seems to be more of a factor than the ambient temperature.

[Max Kellermann[_2_]]

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 5:25:58 PM UTC+2, wrote:> The only e-reader currently planned to be supported by XCSoar is the Kobo Mini

Not exactly true.

The Nook will be supported, too, but the installation procedure requires rooting and hacking the kernel (like TopHat). I believe the Kobo is the better one, but I leave people a choice.

[[email protected]]

> The Nook will be supported, too, but the installation procedure requires rooting and hacking the kernel (like TopHat). I believe the Kobo is the better one, but I leave people a choice.

Kobo size will be more practical, specially if you mount it somewhere in the instrument panel area. Rob has made excellent instructions on how to root NOOK, and lately I have been flying with TopHat connected with IOIOv1 and IOIO-OTG cards without connection breaks. I will fly with NOOK until KOBO with IOIO connection is ready. Thanks for the developers!

Compared to DELL Streak operating system update, IMHO NOOK rooting is easy.

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
Mike Hostage > wrote:

> I am flying with a Nook Simple Touch, loaded with TopHat (a derivative of
> XCSoar, see: tophat.freeforums.org), connected to a Cambridge 302. The
> display is superb in direct sunlight and the update rate is immaterial,
> given that I use the instrument for occasional quick reference, not
> detailed and continuous study.
>


I flew with the Nook running Top Hat for the first time this weekend. It
updates at least as fast as my old PDA. Ghosting was not an issue at all
although I did not enable terrain. I did have roads and rivers turned
on. The Nook is connected to a GPS puck and ship power by an
off-the-shelf OTG ""y" cable. It was stable and held GPS lock for a 2.5
hour flight. Previously, I had tested the setup in the car for almost 3
hours and it worked perfectly there as well.

What a joy to fly with a big display that is actually visible in
sunlight!

Top Hat is thankfully pared down a bit from XCSoar. XCSoar and LK8000
both have too many features IMHO. So far Top Hat does everything that I
want it to do and is simple to use.

One feature that I did not try out: The thermalling assistant. I already
have a great thermalling assistant. It's called a 301 Libelle. She
shakes and wags to tell me where the lift is and I can even keep my eyes
out of the cockpit.

[Soartech]

>The Nook is connected to a GPS puck and ship power by an
> off-the-shelf OTG ""y" cable.

JB,
Where did you find this cable? I have not seen one.

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
Soartech > wrote:

> >The Nook is connected to a GPS puck and ship power by an
> > off-the-shelf OTG ""y" cable.
>
> JB,
> Where did you find this cable? I have not seen one.



Got it from a vendor listing on Amazon. It was less than $4 with
shipping. Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CXAC1ZW/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_2672
5410_item

[Max Kellermann[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:03:20 PM UTC+2, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> What e Readers are you all using with XC Soar?

Good news, everyone: XCSoar's support for the B&N Nook Simple Touch has been vastly improved by last night's release 6.7_preview13 (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.xcsoar.testing or http://max.kellermann.name/download/xcsoar/devel/nook/XCSoar.apk). The release merges an improvement from the TopHat sibling project that eliminates E-ink flickering completely.

Photos of the Nook running XCSoar: http://max.kellermann.name/download/xcsoar/screenshots/nook/

Both Kobo Mini and Nook Simple Touch will be supported equally by XCSoar 6.7.

[[email protected]]

I downloaded the latest test version of XCS (6.7) and it runs in the Nook ST perfectly in Simulator mode.

Thanks Max...... Absolutely brilliant, that's just what I wanted!


Bob

On Thursday, August 1, 2013 2:14:33 AM UTC-4, Max Kellermann wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:03:20 PM UTC+2, Sean F (F2) wrote:
>
> > What e Readers are you all using with XC Soar?
>
>
>
> Good news, everyone: XCSoar's support for the B&N Nook Simple Touch has been vastly improved by last night's release 6.7_preview13 (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.xcsoar.testing or http://max.kellermann..name/download/xcsoar/devel/nook/XCSoar.apk). The release merges an improvement from the TopHat sibling project that eliminates E-ink flickering completely.
>
>
>
> Photos of the Nook running XCSoar: http://max.kellermann.name/download/xcsoar/screenshots/nook/
>
>
>
> Both Kobo Mini and Nook Simple Touch will be supported equally by XCSoar 6.7.

[Soartech]

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:20:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> I downloaded the latest test version of XCS (6.7) and it runs in the Nook ST perfectly in Simulator mode.

Bob, How did you load it? Does it still require the complex procedure on the Top Hat website?

[[email protected]]

I did go through the TopHat procedure and managed (after a few Hiccups) to get TopHat running. A very nice variant of XCS and I can see why people like it.
I then downloaded through 'Market', XCSoar 6.6 and noticed the issue it has with the Nook so two nights ago I downloaded the XCSoar Test which is 6.7 wannabe that was written with the Nook in mind.

I am no computer geek by any means and I just followed the instructions to the letter. I still managed to make a few mistakes but by stepping back and re-reading the instructions I was able to figure where I went wrong.

A greyscale version of XCSoar and TopHat both flicker free and very daylight readable.... fantastic. The more sun you have the easier it is to see !

Now I have figure out the cables....

Bob


On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:41:13 PM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:20:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > I downloaded the latest test version of XCS (6.7) and it runs in the Nook ST perfectly in Simulator mode.
>
>
>
> Bob, How did you load it? Does it still require the complex procedure on the Top Hat website?

[Kimmo Hytoenen]

About using IOIO card with NOOK...

For me it works best like this:
Power of the NOOK & IOIO card
Power on the NOOK and IOIO card, USB cable connected
Start TopHat. When you get a black screen with warnings,
disconnect USB cable, and wait..
Once SD card detected and TopHat start screen opened,
reconnect USB cable
Start TopHat in FLY mode

Have not tested with XCSoar yet, but the new 6.7 beta looks very
good. Will test tomorrow...

[Max Kellermann[_2_]]

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 7:16:58 PM UTC+2, wrote:
> A greyscale version of XCSoar and TopHat both flicker free and very daylight readable.... fantastic. The more sun you have the easier it is to see !

See, that's why using open source software is good - TopHat has figured out the "flicker free" thing on the Nook, and XCSoar 6.7 copies that part of the code. Copying is not bad - it helps everbody, because each benefit in one project will be available for all projects, and in the end: for all users of all projects.

I'd like to mention that XCSoar 6.7 runs very well on the Kobo Mini. That's another e-book reader that costs just 38 EUR! (in Germany)

http://max.kellermann.name/projects/xcsoar/kobo.html

The Kobo is faster than the Nook, and comes without Android crapware. You can boot right into XCSoar, and booting (from power off) takes just two seconds.

[Kimmo Hytoenen]

I have KOBO waiting on my desk, maybe it is soon time to give it
a try. 5 inch size is better than 6 inch NOOK. But at the moment
I cannot connect KOBO with my flight instruments via IOIO and
Soartronic UART interface using a simple USB cable. (we have 4
club gliders with that setup).

For me the IOIO card connectivity is an important detail. XCSoar
is wonderful device when connected with FLARM for anti-
collision, and variometer for vario, IAS, and Baro (and bug,
ballast and MC settings). Final glide accuracy becomes much
better! And when you have all loggers connected with XCSoar,
declaration and logger file download are very easy.

What I do is, that right after landing I initiate the logger file
download from FLARM to XCSoar/NOOK. After I have pushed the
gilder to hangar, download is ready. Then I either use build in
web browser and WiFi, or USB connection to PC to download IGC
file into OLC. (OLC also accepts XCSoar log files if you glider
does not have engine).

Since KOBO starts to XCSoar directly, it will open new
possibilities for club glider setups!

>http://max.kellermann.name/projects/xcsoar/kobo.html
>
>The Kobo is faster than the Nook, and comes without Android
crapware. You
>c=
>an boot right into XCSoar, and booting (from power off) takes
just two
>seco=
>nds.
>

[David Hirst]

Given the 2.5 years since the previous post, I thought I'd ask how people are finding the reliability of the various e-ink readers.

I've run XCSoar on a Kobo Mini (using the spare serial port and an HC-05 bluetooth module) successfully for a couple of seasons, but the screen died on me a couple of months back during a contest. I've made three other similar conversions and two were not successful - the screen slowly faded out to the point of unreadability in flight. These weren't on hot days either. Maybe it was just a rubbish batch that got sent to New Zealand for sale.

For that contest I ended up using my Galaxy S3 and it worked like a charm once I'd built a big light-shield to make the screen visible - I hear the Note 4 is pretty bright so that may be a good option.

Anyway, does any of this ring any bells? Any further recommendations on e-ink after 2 years of serious use?

DH
TX

[[email protected]]

What color were the casings of your eink devices? The kobo mini exists in both black white.

[David Hirst]

I converted two white and two black. The blacks seemed to have more screen fade but I tried a reflective shield around them (thinking that it was a temperature effect) and got the same issue. I used a white for the longest time and put black tape over the screen frame (to stop canopy reflections) - its screen never faded out... until it died.

[JD Williams]

I have been running a kobo mini for a year or so (white frame). I run an external GPS puck and a two to one connector to link both with ships power. Occasionally it goes nutty and stops responding to me, but a power cycle fixes that if it goes on too long. I would rather have the fidelity of a full color screen, but the consistent readability is an acceptable tradeoff for me. I have a flywithce logger so interrupting the flight trace file isn't an issue for me and it is a rare occurrence.

I have a note 4 and am not any more impressed with screen readability in direct sun than I was with my note 2.

Not sure if you can still find the kobo, but it has worked well for me.

JD

[Dan Marotta]

Been using a Dell Streak 5 for almost 6 years. Get 'em cheap on eBay.

On 2/28/2016 12:30 PM, JD Williams wrote:
> I have been running a kobo mini for a year or so (white frame). I run an external GPS puck and a two to one connector to link both with ships power. Occasionally it goes nutty and stops responding to me, but a power cycle fixes that if it goes on too long. I would rather have the fidelity of a full color screen, but the consistent readability is an acceptable tradeoff for me. I have a flywithce logger so interrupting the flight trace file isn't an issue for me and it is a rare occurrence.
>
> I have a note 4 and am not any more impressed with screen readability in direct sun than I was with my note 2.
>
> Not sure if you can still find the kobo, but it has worked well for me.
>
> JD

--
Dan, 5J

[Cookie]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1173058559385720&set=o.1042877269064047&type=3&theater

Hopefully you can see this photo from facebook.


This is what we did with our club LS3. Fairly small panel...minimalist is good for club ship. We did similar with our LS4 which has even smaller panel.

We have black KOBOs also...or I "wrap" the white ones with black "carbon fiber" vinyl.

Cookie

[David Hirst]

>
> Hopefully you can see this photo from facebook.
>

Yes, I did something similar. When they work, they work well; my question was more around whether anyone else had encountered reliability issues with the Kobos.

If not then I can only assume that my "dud" ones came from a bad batch.

[WB]

Been flying with a Kobo for 2 years. Got both a white and a black. Connected with a y cable to GPS puck and ship power. Running Tophat. No problems.

[Cookie]

On Sunday, February 28, 2016 at 7:42:46 PM UTC-5, David Hirst wrote:
> >
> > Hopefully you can see this photo from facebook.
> >
>
> Yes, I did something similar. When they work, they work well; my question was more around whether anyone else had encountered reliability issues with the Kobos.
>
> If not then I can only assume that my "dud" ones came from a bad batch.

If you want 100% reliability guaranteed...don't use a kobo, or XC soar or top hat. The hardware, software, and installations are all "experimental" and subject to "issues".

Remember a Kobo costs $60, and a complete installation can be done for about $100. Alternatives, which may or may not be more reliable can cost 10X.


Cookie

[WB]

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 6:37:33 AM UTC-6, Cookie wrote:
> On Sunday, February 28, 2016 at 7:42:46 PM UTC-5, David Hirst wrote:
> > >
> > > Hopefully you can see this photo from facebook.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, I did something similar. When they work, they work well; my question was more around whether anyone else had encountered reliability issues with the Kobos.
> >
> > If not then I can only assume that my "dud" ones came from a bad batch.
>
> If you want 100% reliability guaranteed...don't use a kobo, or XC soar or top hat. The hardware, software, and installations are all "experimental" and subject to "issues".
>
> Remember a Kobo costs $60, and a complete installation can be done for about $100. Alternatives, which may or may not be more reliable can cost 10X.
>
>
> Cookie

I'm not sure the expensive setups are that much more reliable than the cheap alternatives. At every contest, it seems that there is always one or two pilots with a problem with their super vario or their flight computer, often software related.

What does one do at a contest when the $3500 flight computer dies? Don't think I've seen anyone carrying around a spare for the top end stuff or even a spare Oudie. Two Kobo's cost me less than $100. GPS pucks can be had for even less.

[Dan Marotta]

> If you want 100% reliability guaranteed...don't use a kobo, or XC soar or top hat. The hardware, software, and installations are all "experimental" and subject to "issues".
>
> <snip>
>
>
> Cookie

Following that logic, should we not fly "experimental" gliders? I've
been using one of those cheap, experimental hardware platforms with
experimental software (XCSoar) for years without as many "issues" as I
read about regarding the higher priced solutions.

The so-called experimental hardware was created, you will recall, with
the entire world as a market, not just a hand full of glider pilots. I
would, therefore, expect its reliability to be considerably higher.

YMMV
--
Dan, 5J

[Cookie]

Dude! You missed my point completely. One poster was P'd off because his kobo was a dud. Me and my club members have maybe 12 or so KOBO's among us.. We've had a few duds....some faded screens some bad USB connectors...some trouble with power supplies/ batteries etc.


But I still use the KOBO...and so do the rest of them...mine has worked perfectly for a couple of years...the ones in our club gliders are working fine.


For me, Tophat on KOBO is the ONLY way to go!


Cookie




On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 1:08:25 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> If you want 100% reliability guaranteed...don't use a kobo, or XC soar or top hat. The hardware, software, and installations are all "experimental" and subject to "issues".
>
> <snip>
>
>
> Cookie
>
>
>
>
> Following that logic, should we not fly "experimental" gliders?*
> I've been using one of those cheap, experimental hardware platforms
> with experimental software (XCSoar) for years without as many
> "issues" as I read about regarding the higher priced solutions.
>
>
>
> The so-called experimental hardware was created, you will recall,
> with the entire world as a market, not just a hand full of glider
> pilots.* I would, therefore, expect its reliability to be
> considerably higher.
>
>
>
> YMMV
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J

[WB]

perfectly for a couple of years...the ones in our club gliders are working fine.
>
>
> For me, Tophat on KOBO is the ONLY way to go!
>
>
> Cookie
>
>
>

Yep, I can't understand why anyone would NOT go the KOBO with Tophat/XCSoar route. I guess us glider pilots tend to be a pretty cow-like bunch. We follow the herd, both in picking gliders, equipping them, and flying tasks.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 2:14:51 PM UTC-5, Cookie wrote:
> Dude! You missed my point completely. One poster was P'd off because his kobo was a dud. Me and my club members have maybe 12 or so KOBO's among us. We've had a few duds....some faded screens some bad USB connectors...some trouble with power supplies/ batteries etc.
>
>
> But I still use the KOBO...and so do the rest of them...mine has worked perfectly for a couple of years...the ones in our club gliders are working fine.
>
>
> For me, Tophat on KOBO is the ONLY way to go!
>
>
> Cookie
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 1:08:25 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > If you want 100% reliability guaranteed...don't use a kobo, or XC soar or top hat. The hardware, software, and installations are all "experimental" and subject to "issues".
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
> > Cookie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Following that logic, should we not fly "experimental" gliders?*
> > I've been using one of those cheap, experimental hardware platforms
> > with experimental software (XCSoar) for years without as many
> > "issues" as I read about regarding the higher priced solutions.
> >
> >
> >
> > The so-called experimental hardware was created, you will recall,
> > with the entire world as a market, not just a hand full of glider
> > pilots.* I would, therefore, expect its reliability to be
> > considerably higher.
> >
> >
> >
> > YMMV
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dan, 5J

I have a brand new Kobo mini still in a box (black), if anyone is interested contact by private message.

[Papa3[_2_]]

To directly answer the question... yes, we had a problem with a Kobo last year, and I've seen a few go belly up in our club. In my case, it seemed to be very sensitive to sunlight on the unit. I built a high tech heat shield (i.e. piece of cardboard form an Aircraft Spruce Shipping Box, so it was at least aviation grade cardboard) and that seemed to help. My son and I were flying our twin Grob in a local contest, and between the two of us we had 3 instances of TopHat running (1 Kobo, an HTC One, and a Samsung Galaxy). In my "real" glider I fly with a ClearNav. No quesiton the ClearNav is optimized for the type of racing and XC that I do, but the price point on Tophat is pretty nice. With the phones, I just power them on an external USB battery (Anker or equivalent) with the Bluetooth and cellular service turned off. More than adequate for most flights.

[David Hirst]

> One poster was P'd off because his kobo was a dud. Me and my club members have maybe 12 or so KOBO's among us. We've had a few duds....some faded screens some bad USB connectors...some trouble with power supplies/ batteries etc.

>yes, we had a problem with a Kobo last year, and I've seen a few go belly up in our club. In my case, it seemed to be very sensitive to sunlight on the unit.

....and that's the sort of info I was after. Thanks! Not just my dud batch then.
Actually I wasn't really P'd off, more like "meh". And it was 3 duds out of 4. I still like them (and will probably keep trying them) but I have to make my own decision as to whether they're cheap enough to be considered a 'consumable' item.

DH
TX

[Papa3[_2_]]

There are a number of threads online that describe various problems with Kobos in direct sunlight. Google "Kobo sunlight freeze" and you'll find them.. Inconclusive whether this is specific to a batch, a firmware version, etc. But it's happening enough to show up easily with searches. The high-tech cardboard shade helped - enough so that I would consider building a proper one out of something more permanent. NOTE:there are a bunch in our club. From memory, I think the ones that are flush-mounted to the panel rather than on a stalk mount (which mine was) seem to do better. The back of the case is protected and the lip of the instrument panel shroud probably provides some relief, especially when flying up-sun. You could probably build a nice tunnel mount like the ClearNav. Then, your investment in the panel fabrication would be orders of magnitude more than the instrument. :-)

Erik Mann (P3)

[Dan Marotta]

I guess I did miss the point! Thanks for pointing that out.

Cheers!

On 2/29/2016 12:14 PM, Cookie wrote:
>
> Dude! You missed my point completely. One poster was P'd off because his kobo was a dud. Me and my club members have maybe 12 or so KOBO's among us. We've had a few duds....some faded screens some bad USB connectors...some trouble with power supplies/ batteries etc.
>
>
> But I still use the KOBO...and so do the rest of them...mine has worked perfectly for a couple of years...the ones in our club gliders are working fine.
>
>
> For me, Tophat on KOBO is the ONLY way to go!
>
>
> Cookie
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 1:08:25 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> If you want 100% reliability guaranteed...don't use a kobo, or XC soar or top hat. The hardware, software, and installations are all "experimental" and subject to "issues".
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>> Cookie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Following that logic, should we not fly "experimental" gliders?
>> I've been using one of those cheap, experimental hardware platforms
>> with experimental software (XCSoar) for years without as many
>> "issues" as I read about regarding the higher priced solutions.
>>
>>
>>
>> The so-called experimental hardware was created, you will recall,
>> with the entire world as a market, not just a hand full of glider
>> pilots. I would, therefore, expect its reliability to be
>> considerably higher.
>>
>>
>>
>> YMMV
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

[7C]

On Tuesday, 1 March 2016 02:21:08 UTC, Papa3 wrote:
> There are a number of threads online that describe various problems with Kobos in direct sunlight. Google "Kobo sunlight freeze" and you'll find them.

I've had problems with the screen lock coming on during flying, which makes it stop responding to input. I believe this, and perhaps some of the other freezes, are caused by problems with the infrared sensors on the touch screen. It may be possible to protect them by shielding just slightly inside the boundaries of the screen without a tunnel.

I have been flying with Kobos since before they started and have apart from a broken USB port (my fault) and some ghosting they are all still ok. I use the USB port for GPS feed, but I know that if you get the voltage slightly wrong or have a poor ground the serial port on the mobo causes all sorts of glitches and crashes.

Mel

[[email protected]]

I've used XCsoar on a Nook Simple Touch for a couple of years and love it. I use it with a GPS USB puck and a Y-cable for external power. There have been a few glitches/freezeups, but if I start with a fully charged Nook there is rarely a problem. (Be sure to return its USB mode to "peripheral" and then fully power-off after you are done flying.)

I have yet to see ANY display, at any price, that is more sunlight-readable than the e-ink display of the B&W e-readers. The hardware is a bit flimsy but replacements are still easy to find and cheap. I added an extension to the snap-on-back that I use to mount the Nook with, to protect the USB plug from being bumped by my knee.

The Kobo seems like another option, but for me the simplicity of using the USB port of the Nook as-is is a plus, as is the larger display (and it fit in my cockpit, just barely).

[[email protected]]

We have developed a simple electronic device to connect KOBO with FLARM to get GPS, Baro and Flarm traffic. This "Soartronic OTX" module is connected to your glider's 12v battery, and it generated charging power to KOBO. Connection to KOBO is with normal USB cable, and with FLAR using straight RJ45 cable.. It also feeds 12V to your FLARM. And if you use external FLARM display, it has a build-in RJ45 splitter. Tested by Rob of TopHat in US.

www.soartronic.com

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, February 28, 2016 at 6:26:14 PM UTC-6, Cookie wrote:
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1173058559385720&set=o.1042877269064047&type=3&theater
>
> Hopefully you can see this photo from facebook.
>
>
> This is what we did with our club LS3. Fairly small panel...minimalist is good for club ship. We did similar with our LS4 which has even smaller panel.
>
> We have black KOBOs also...or I "wrap" the white ones with black "carbon fiber" vinyl.
>
> Cookie


Can anyone give me some information on the Kobo mini panel mount that is being used in the above photo ? Thanks.

Doug