Bizarre Fatal Accident-Suicide?

[Rocky]

Over the weekend an 84 yr old man apparently unfastened his seatbelt,
climbed out of the cockpit of the biplane he was riding in and stepped
off to fall to his death. He hit some power lines that appeared to cut
his torso in half and the parts plunged onto an apartment building.
The pilot attempted to grab the man but was unable to do so. They were
on short final into SEE (San Diego, CA).
Anyone else got more details?

[Aardvark]

Rocky wrote:

> Over the weekend an 84 yr old man apparently unfastened his seatbelt,
> climbed out of the cockpit of the biplane he was riding in and stepped
> off to fall to his death. He hit some power lines that appeared to cut
> his torso in half and the parts plunged onto an apartment building.
> The pilot attempted to grab the man but was unable to do so. They were
> on short final into SEE (San Diego, CA).
> Anyone else got more details?


3 news links at
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U116252E7

this one has this most info....
============================================
March 30, 2004

EL CAJON – An 88-year-old man ended a half-hour rental ride in a biplane
yesterday by jumping to his death and landing in an apartment patio in
view of horrified witnesses, authorities said.

"It was too low for a stunt," said Cynthia Lankford, 33, who watched the
fall from poolside at Graystone Village Apartments on East Bradley Avenue.

"I saw him hit the power lines, heard trees breaking. I really thought
it wasn't real."

The man reportedly had started to climb out of his passenger seat and
fought off the pilot who struggled to hold him in place while keeping
the plane aloft.

Joseph Harold Frost of Carlsbad, who recently was diagnosed with a tumor
that was causing him to go blind, jumped deliberately, said his son,
Robert Frost.

"I think that was dad's idea, to go out in a flash of glory," Robert
Frost said by phone last night. "No one knew it was his plan to do this.
I think he just thought of it today. He handed me his wallet before he
took off.

"My condolences to the pilot. He said my dad was having an amazing time;
he even turned over the controls to my dad."

The pilot was identified by officials as Willis Allen, owner of Allen
Airways Flying Museum. He landed safely at Gillespie Field about 4:45
p.m. and reported his passenger's actions to a sheriff's helicopter
pilot based at the airfield.

Robert Frost had helped his father arrange the flight to celebrate his
88th birthday, which was Saturday.

He chartered the half-hour ride over East County in a two-seater
Steerman PT 17 biplane like the ones he had flown in World War II in the
Army Air Forces, his son said. "It was exactly the type of plane he'd
learned to fly in, and that he trained others in."

After the war, Joseph Frost, born in Iowa, became a land developer and
eventually retired in Carlsbad. He is survived by his wife, Margaret,
and their four sons.

Officials said the plane was on final approach to land, at an estimated
300 to 400 feet in the air, when Joseph Frost took off his safety belt
and stood up in front of the pilot.

"The pilot tried to wrestle him back into the plane and tragically
couldn't do it," Revel said.

The pilot even pitched the plane nose upward to try to get Frost back in
his seat, sheriff's officials said. He jumped out about half a mile
southeast of the airport.

He struck two power lines over the Graystone apartments and a
neighboring mobile-home park. The impact severed his body and knocked
out power for several hours to the area's 4,000 residents and businesses.

The body glanced off the apartment building and landed in the patio back
yard of a ground-floor unit, where a woman was inside. No one was injured.

A tenant at the complex, Dennis Reaves, 34, said his 8-year-old son came
running indoors to tell him a man had fallen from a plane. Reaves, a
hospital emergency room worker, said he ran to help but found that the
man had been killed instantly.

"I see a lot in the ER, but this was very strange," Reaves said.

=====================================

[C J Campbell]

Eeeeewwwww!

************************************************** **************************
****
** Report created 3/30/2004 Record 1
**
************************************************** **************************
****

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 262V Make/Model: A74N Description: BOEING STEARMAN
PT17
Date: 03/29/2004 Time: 0043

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: None

LOCATION
City: SAN DIEGO State: CA Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT ON APPROACH TO GILLESPIE FIELD RUNWAY 27L, THE PASSENGER JUMPED OUT
OF
THE ACFT FATALLY INJURING HIMSELF, NO ACFT DAMAGE, NO GROUND INJURIES,
OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES ARE UNKNOWN, SAN DIEGO, CA

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: UNK



OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Approach Operation: General Aviation

Departed: SAN DIEGO, CA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: SAN DIEGO, CA Flt Plan: UNK Wx Briefing:
U
Last Radio Cont: UNK
Last Clearance: UNK

FAA FSDO: SAN DIEGO, CA (WP09) Entry date: 03/30/2004

[C J Campbell]

"Aardvark" > wrote in message
t...
> Rocky wrote:
>
> > Over the weekend an 84 yr old man apparently unfastened his seatbelt,
> > climbed out of the cockpit of the biplane he was riding in and stepped
> > off to fall to his death. He hit some power lines that appeared to cut
> > his torso in half and the parts plunged onto an apartment building.
> > The pilot attempted to grab the man but was unable to do so. They were
> > on short final into SEE (San Diego, CA).
> > Anyone else got more details?
>
>
> 3 news links at
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?U116252E7
>

You know, I have real trouble pulling stuff that specific out of Google.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "C J Campbell" > said:
>> 3 news links at
>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?U116252E7
>You know, I have real trouble pulling stuff that specific out of Google.

You're probably using regular web google instead of news.google.com, which
specifically indexes recent news items.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"An appointment is an engagement to see someone, while a morningstar is a
large lump of metal used for viciously crushing skulls. It is important not
to confuse the two, isn't it, Mr. --?" - Terry Pratchett

[C J Campbell]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "C J Campbell"
> said:
> >> 3 news links at
> >> http://makeashorterlink.com/?U116252E7
> >You know, I have real trouble pulling stuff that specific out of Google.
>
> You're probably using regular web google instead of news.google.com, which
> specifically indexes recent news items.

You're probably right. :-)

[darwin smith]

Aardvark wrote:

>
> EL CAJON – An 88-year-old man ended a half-hour rental ride in a
> biplane yesterday by jumping to his death and landing in an apartment
> patio in view of horrified witnesses, authorities said.

Ordinarily I'd be more sympathetic to the man's plight and to his
family, but in this
case (and based only on what's been posted here so far) I'd say the man was
completely selfish and inconsiderate. In exchange for ending any pain,
suffering,
and uncertainty he might be facing in his life, he caused a great deal
of emotional
pain and suffering in the lives of countless others.

Rich Lemert

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, darwin smith > said:
>completely selfish and inconsiderate. In exchange for ending any pain,
>suffering, and uncertainty he might be facing in his life, he caused a
>great deal of emotional pain and suffering in the lives of countless
>others.

If I hadn't realized that suicide is an inherently selfish and terrible
thing to do others, I would have been dead 20 years ago.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I once successfully declined a departmental retreat, saying that on
that day I planned instead to advance.
-- Alan J. Rosenthal

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, darwin smith > said:
> >completely selfish and inconsiderate. In exchange for ending any pain,
> >suffering, and uncertainty he might be facing in his life, he caused a
> >great deal of emotional pain and suffering in the lives of countless
> >others.
>
> If I hadn't realized that suicide is an inherently selfish and terrible
> thing to do others, I would have been dead 20 years ago.
>
As selfish as the people that want to keep someone alive that is suffering
terribly?

[Shirley]

"Paul Tomblin":
>As selfish as the people that want to keep
>someone alive that is suffering terribly?

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote:
>>As selfish as the people that want to keep
>>someone alive that is suffering terribly?

I don't think that was the implication, nor does it apply to this scenario.
There are other ways to go, if one chooses, without causing that much trauma to
unsuspecting people. The pilot, the youngster, and anyone else who witnessed
the aftermath didn't have a say in being part of that "blaze of glory." I think
that's what was being referred to as "selfish."

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Shirley) said:
>"Paul Tomblin":
>>As selfish as the people that want to keep
>>someone alive that is suffering terribly?

I never said that. Learn how to quote, idiot.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Heaven has all the lusers, a generous supply of larts -
and no PHBs anywhere in sight.
-- The BOFH Heaven, according to Suresh

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Shirley" > wrote in message
...
> "Paul Tomblin":
> >As selfish as the people that want to keep
> >someone alive that is suffering terribly?
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" wrote:
> >>As selfish as the people that want to keep
> >>someone alive that is suffering terribly?
>
> I don't think that was the implication, nor does it apply to this
scenario.
> There are other ways to go, if one chooses, without causing that much
trauma to
> unsuspecting people. The pilot, the youngster, and anyone else who
witnessed
> the aftermath didn't have a say in being part of that "blaze of glory." I
think
> that's what was being referred to as "selfish."

Agreed, but I'm not sure that was Paul's context. I'm guesstimating that the
old man in this case did not consider other consequences of his actions. As
he was suffering from a brain tumor, that entirely possible.

A more extreme example would be the fellow a few years back that hung
himself in such a place that his estranged wife would be the one to find his
body.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Tom Sixkiller" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
>> In a previous article, (Shirley) said:
>> >"Paul Tomblin":
>> >>As selfish as the people that want to keep
>> >>someone alive that is suffering terribly?
>>
>> I never said that. Learn how to quote, idiot.
>>
>
>You said: " If I hadn't realized that suicide is an inherently selfish
>and terrible thing to do others, I would have been dead 20 years ago."

I know what I said. "Shirley" stated that I said something entirely
different.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
But yeah, a semi-automatic, a room full of our managers, and I would
*not* be a scene conducive to my staying out of gaol.
-- Matt McLeod

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, (Shirley) said:
> >"Paul Tomblin":
> >>As selfish as the people that want to keep
> >>someone alive that is suffering terribly?
>
> I never said that. Learn how to quote, idiot.
>

You said: " If I hadn't realized that suicide is an inherently selfish and
terrible
thing to do others, I would have been dead 20 years ago."

Understand that "selfishness" can have two perspectives. I won't add other
adjectives.

[Shirley]

(Paul Tomblin):

>I never said that. Learn how to quote, idiot.

I apologize for the error in attribution, but it was an honest mistake. Nice of
you to point it out so politely.

[Robert M. Gary]

darwin smith > wrote in message t>...
> Aardvark wrote:
>
> >
> > EL CAJON – An 88-year-old man ended a half-hour rental ride in a
> > biplane yesterday by jumping to his death and landing in an apartment
> > patio in view of horrified witnesses, authorities said.
>
> Ordinarily I'd be more sympathetic to the man's plight and to his
> family, but in this
> case (and based only on what's been posted here so far) I'd say the man was
> completely selfish and inconsiderate. In exchange for ending any pain,
> suffering,
> and uncertainty he might be facing in his life, he caused a great deal
> of emotional
> pain and suffering in the lives of countless others.

If he was really dying of this cancer it seems pretty selfish for
"countless" others to want him to live in his misery for their
benefit. In the U.S. we have a seriously distorted cultural adversness
to suicide. Too much catholicism. I applaud the guy. He took control
of his destiny and did what he wanted to do.

-Robert



-Robert

[Gig Giacona]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> darwin smith > wrote in message
t>...
> > Aardvark wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > EL CAJON – An 88-year-old man ended a half-hour rental ride in a
> > > biplane yesterday by jumping to his death and landing in an apartment
> > > patio in view of horrified witnesses, authorities said.
> >
> > Ordinarily I'd be more sympathetic to the man's plight and to his
> > family, but in this
> > case (and based only on what's been posted here so far) I'd say the man
was
> > completely selfish and inconsiderate. In exchange for ending any pain,
> > suffering,
> > and uncertainty he might be facing in his life, he caused a great deal
> > of emotional
> > pain and suffering in the lives of countless others.
>
> If he was really dying of this cancer it seems pretty selfish for
> "countless" others to want him to live in his misery for their
> benefit. In the U.S. we have a seriously distorted cultural adversness
> to suicide. Too much catholicism. I applaud the guy. He took control
> of his destiny and did what he wanted to do.
>
> -Robert
>

I don't care what illness the guy had. The was he chose to end his life put
many people, both those that he knew and even more he didn't know, in very
real danger.

GigG

[G.R. Patterson III]

Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> I don't care what illness the guy had. The was he chose to end his life put
> many people, both those that he knew and even more he didn't know, in very
> real danger.

Yes, and the shock of having half a torso land on your patio is not something I would
wish on anyone (or, at least, the list of people on whom I would wish it is very
short).

George Patterson
Treason is ne'er successful, Sir; what then be the reason? Why, if treason
be successful, Sir, then none dare call it treason.

[Peter R.]

Robert M. Gary ) wrote:

> If he was really dying of this cancer it seems pretty selfish for
> "countless" others to want him to live in his misery for their
> benefit. In the U.S. we have a seriously distorted cultural adversness
> to suicide. Too much catholicism. I applaud the guy. He took control
> of his destiny and did what he wanted to do.

Fine. Then kill yourself in the comfort of your own home.

This old man's blaze of glory could have resulted in the deaths of others,
including the pilot who became distracted attempting to save the man's life
as well as other, truly innocent victims on the ground. And to those who
caught a glimpse of the severed torso or the man's intestines splashed on
the ground?

Where I live there is a large shopping mall that has a wide opening seven
stories high in the center. In each of the four corners of this large
opening is a glass elevator.

One week before Easter a few years ago, a distraught, middle-aged woman
climbed out over the railing and dove to her death several floors below.

She landed literally a yard or two from a line of children waiting to see
the Easter bunny. Her blood and body parts splashed several of the
children.

Would you applaud that blaze of glory? How about if your four-year old
daughter was one of the children who needed the woman's brains washed out
of her pretty, golden hair?

IMO, the old man was quite wrong in the method of his death, not in his
decision to do commit suicide.

--
Peter












----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[S Green]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> darwin smith > wrote in message
t>...
> > Aardvark wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > EL CAJON – An 88-year-old man ended a half-hour rental ride in a
> > > biplane yesterday by jumping to his death and landing in an apartment
> > > patio in view of horrified witnesses, authorities said.
> >
> > Ordinarily I'd be more sympathetic to the man's plight and to his
> > family, but in this
> > case (and based only on what's been posted here so far) I'd say the man
was
> > completely selfish and inconsiderate. In exchange for ending any pain,
> > suffering,
> > and uncertainty he might be facing in his life, he caused a great deal
> > of emotional
> > pain and suffering in the lives of countless others.
>
> If he was really dying of this cancer it seems pretty selfish for
> "countless" others to want him to live in his misery for their
> benefit. In the U.S. we have a seriously distorted cultural adversness
> to suicide. Too much catholicism. I applaud the guy. He took control
> of his destiny and did what he wanted to do.
>
Should have blown his brains out with a gun rather than traumatise a pilot.

[C J Campbell]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
>
> If he was really dying of this cancer it seems pretty selfish for
> "countless" others to want him to live in his misery for their
> benefit. In the U.S. we have a seriously distorted cultural adversness
> to suicide. Too much catholicism. I applaud the guy. He took control
> of his destiny and did what he wanted to do.
>

Yeah, that 3 year old who was traumatized by having two halves of a dead
body fall into his yard should get a life. I mean, why should anybody
complain about having guts and blood all over their patio? The man was
heroic for what he did.

<Seriously> What in the world are you thinking?

[Robert M. Gary]

"Gig Giacona" > wrote in message >...
> I don't care what illness the guy had. The was he chose to end his life put
> many people, both those that he knew and even more he didn't know, in very
> real danger.

Huh? What danger? Was he going to fall on the roof of a stadium and fall the roof?

[Robert M. Gary]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message >...
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > If he was really dying of this cancer it seems pretty selfish for
> > "countless" others to want him to live in his misery for their
> > benefit. In the U.S. we have a seriously distorted cultural adversness
> > to suicide. Too much catholicism. I applaud the guy. He took control
> > of his destiny and did what he wanted to do.
> >
>
> Yeah, that 3 year old who was traumatized by having two halves of a dead
> body fall into his yard should get a life. I mean, why should anybody
> complain about having guts and blood all over their patio? The man was
> heroic for what he did.

I didn't read anything about a 3 year old. Please post the link that
describes this. No one once said the guy was heroic. Please quote
something that said the guy was a "hero". Superman is a hero, I said
I applaud this guy. Let's avoid the hyperbole. The guy saved himself
from months or years of being blind, in terrible pain all the time,
puking up his guts everyday, knowing he was just waiting to die. Maybe
he could have picked a better spot, but he sure could have picked a
worse one too.

[Peter Gottlieb]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> "Gig Giacona" > wrote in message
>...
> > I don't care what illness the guy had. The was he chose to end his life
put
> > many people, both those that he knew and even more he didn't know, in
very
> > real danger.
>
> Huh? What danger? Was he going to fall on the roof of a stadium and fall
the roof?

He landed close to others in a densely populated area and endangered the
pilot.

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> Robert M. Gary > wrote:

> Huh? What danger? Was he going to fall on the roof of a stadium and fall the roof?

------------------------------------------------------------------
He struck two power lines over the Graystone apartments and a
neighboring mobile-home park. The impact severed his body and
knocked out power for several hours to the area's 4,000 residents
and businesses.

The body glanced off the apartment building and landed in the patio
back yard of a ground-floor unit, where a woman was inside. No one
was injured.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't see the potential for danger and the possibility of
someone actually being hit, then Robert I find it hard to believe
that you actually have the ability to fly an airplane because your
comments are showing the rest of the group that you are
dumber than a stump.

[Gig Giacona]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> "Gig Giacona" > wrote in message
>...
> > I don't care what illness the guy had. The was he chose to end his life
put
> > many people, both those that he knew and even more he didn't know, in
very
> > real danger.
>
> Huh? What danger? Was he going to fall on the roof of a stadium and fall
the roof?

He landed at/on/near an apartment complex. What the hell are you talking
about?

GigG

[C J Campbell]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > > If he was really dying of this cancer it seems pretty selfish for
> > > "countless" others to want him to live in his misery for their
> > > benefit. In the U.S. we have a seriously distorted cultural adversness
> > > to suicide. Too much catholicism. I applaud the guy. He took control
> > > of his destiny and did what he wanted to do.
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, that 3 year old who was traumatized by having two halves of a dead
> > body fall into his yard should get a life. I mean, why should anybody
> > complain about having guts and blood all over their patio? The man was
> > heroic for what he did.
>
> I didn't read anything about a 3 year old.

OK, he was eight. What age do you think is appropriate for watching people
do the bug on a windshield trick?

Please post the link that
> describes this. No one once said the guy was heroic.

I said he was heroic. I was being sarcastic. OK, you were not applauding him
because he is a hero, perhaps not even admirable. Maybe you were applauding
him simply because you were entertained?

Please quote
> something that said the guy was a "hero". Superman is a hero, I said
> I applaud this guy. Let's avoid the hyperbole. The guy saved himself
> from months or years of being blind, in terrible pain all the time,
> puking up his guts everyday, knowing he was just waiting to die. Maybe
> he could have picked a better spot, but he sure could have picked a
> worse one too.

Yes, let's avoid the hyperbole. Please post the link that he was going to be
in terrible pain all the time, puking up his guts every day, waiting to die.
Not all tumors are fatal, you know. This one was going to make him blind.

Are you suggesting that people who find out they are going to go blind
should kill themselves? Would you applaud going out and killing blind
people?

What is wrong with counseling, pain medication, and just trying to help
people cope with their problems instead of applauding them for killing
themselves?

This guy endangered the pilot by getting into a struggle in the airplane. He
endangered and horrified people on the ground. This is fairly typical of
suicides, BTW. They never think for a minute about the cost and
inconvenience of cleaning up after them, nor are they generally concerned
about how their actions might endanger others, traumatize witnesses, waste
emergency resources, etc. They are focused solely upon themselves. Suicide
is indeed the ultimate expression of selfishness.

Weren't you the guy who was so supportive of that elderly couple who just
flew off into the sunset one day? I wonder how much time and money was spent
on search and rescue looking for them. How many people risked their lives to
determine what happened to them? What other emergency needs were not being
met because these thoughtless bozos never considered that their actions
might be tying up critical resources?

I wonder how much is spent on therapy for loved ones and unwilling witnesses
to suicides. I wonder how many horrible diseases are spread by people who
were exposed to blood and other bodily fluids from would-be suicides. I
wonder how many people are killed or injured by attempts to rescue or aid
those making half-hearted suicide attempts. I had a good friend who worked
for Involuntary Treatment. He was thrown down three flights of stairs by a
couple of teenagers that had made a suicide pact. He was badly injured. It
is nothing at all like the romanticized Romeos and Juliets in plays and
movies.

You want to know what suicide is all about? Try a Google search on Kurt
Cobain's suicide picture. Then, when you have seen it, tell me how you think
this behavior should be applauded.

[Robert M. Gary]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message >...
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> Yes, let's avoid the hyperbole. Please post the link that he was going to be
> in terrible pain all the time, puking up his guts every day, waiting to die.
> Not all tumors are fatal, you know. This one was going to make him blind.

I guess its possible that the guy has some non-terminal tumor that
would just cause him to be blind, but I believe that is very doubtful.
There is no need to prove he will live out the rest puking and in
pain. Have you ever known anyone who enjoyed Chemo?
-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

"Gig Giacona" > wrote in message >...
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Gig Giacona" > wrote in message
> >...
roof?
>
> He landed at/on/near an apartment complex. What the hell are you talking
> about?

I only believe about 1/2 of what I see from the media. We could have
been blocks away for all I know. I also know that anytime an airplane
crashes the media reports it was "sputtering".