IFR Checkride Scheduled

[Jon Kraus]

I have my IFR checkride scheduled for April 21st... To make it even more
exciting my CFII talked me into taking my ride with a DE that is getting
his certification for giving instrument checkrides... So not only will
he be there but a representative from the FAA will be riding along
critiquing him... Has anyone else had any checkride experiences along
these lines? Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride
experiences to take the edge off my nervousness... Really the nerves
haven't hit yet and I figure that the worst thing that will happen is
that I'd bust some portion and have to retake it... Holding pattern
entries would be my guess... Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA (hopefully not for long)

[Peter R.]

Jon Kraus ) wrote:

> Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride
> experiences to take the edge off my nervousness...

My instrument checkride was not atypical so I don't have any over-the-top
experiences to offer. I did, however, forget the acronym MEA when the DE
pointed to it on the en route chart and asked what the number represented.
After he answered his own question, I apologized for the legitimate brain
fart. This DE is also a CFII (not mine) and a very easy person with whom
to converse, so overall the test was very comfortable for me.

However, in regards to the nervousness, I have two suggestions. The first
is to really enjoy and interact with the DE during the oral exam. Ask him
about his experiences. Take the opportunity to let him/her teach you, as
well as the more obvious part about him/her testing you. The more you
informally interact with him/her, the more you should realize that he is
just a more experienced pilot who wants to be sure you will be a safe
pilot, especially with a rating that can be inherently more lethal.

Secondly, I found it reassuring that I absolutely did not want to pass the
instrument checkride if I was not a safe instrument pilot. I am not on any
fast track to some airline job, so slamming out ratings like the passing of
mile markers on a super highway was not my goal. Carrying my precious
cargo of my wife and two little boys as safely as possible was (and is
still) my goal. This may be obvious, but the point of passing is not to
pass, but to demonstrate some level of proficiency.

With that in mind, I gave the DE a quick speech at the beginning of my oral
exam stating that I expected him to withhold the rating if I was not safe
in his eyes. By doing this, I accomplished two things. First, it relaxed
me because it reminded me of the real purpose of the checkride. Secondly,
it demonstrated to the DE what my sincere goal was if I did pass the
checkride.

Remember that your CFII would not have endorsed your logbook if s/he felt
you were not ready. Fly like it is your CFII in the right seat, and you
should do very well.

Looking forward to reading your post-instrument checkride report. :)

--
Peter












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[John T]

"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message

>
> Or, can anyone give relay some
> interesting checkride experiences to take the edge off my
> nervousness...

It was November 2001. The WTC wreckage was still strewn across lower
Manhattan and the Pentagon construction crews were starting their own
herculean rebuilding effort while many citizens were still wary of aircraft
sounds in the skies. The Powers That Be had just recently implemented the
DC ADIZ and all the local pilots were well aware that the circular contrails
above the city were created by aircraft not displaying civilian livery.

I scheduled my checkride to fly out of Frederick, MD (KFDK) but that meant I
had to get my plane from Leesburg, VA (KJYO) to FDK. At the time of my
checkride, all flights in the ADIZ had to be on IFR plans so I had to
convince my instructor to tag along so we could fly IFR on his ticket.

We get to FDK without incident, meet the DE and she begins reviewing the
documentation. Aircraft logs check out OK and she reviews my logbook. "So
you flew to Elizabeth City, NC for your long XC?" Yes. "I don't see an
instructor sign-off." Uh-oh.

I had gotten an interpretation from AOPA that an instructor was not required
for that flight. They were wrong. As the DE put it, "You should have asked
the FAA." OK, what are my options? It turned out that her afternoon
appointment had cancelled (perhaps due to ADIZ restrictions) and she was
willing to give me the checkride in the afternoon *IF* I could get the long
XC done that day.

I call the office and let them know I need to take the rest of the day off
and they graciously agreed. Meanwhile, my instructor (who I begged to
check) also was able to get the day off from his day job.

We planned and flew a XC from FDK to Hot Springs, VA (KHSP) - a very cool
mountain-top airport for those interested - with a secondary stop at
Shenandoah (KSHD). While waiting for fuel at SHD, I called and confirmed
with the DE that we would be back in FDK that day, but that daylight would
be fast receding by the time we got there. She normally doesn't conduct
checkrides at night, but she suggested I get back to FDK as quickly as
possible.

We kept the squirrels under the cowl of the 172 running as fast as the whip
could get them and we arrived back at FDK with about 25 minutes of daylight
left. My instructor signed off the logbook and the DE began the oral
portion of the checkride.

Everything went well and we went to the plane where I performed the
pre-flight by flashlight. Luckily, I was still night current and we took
off for the practical test.

We went through the usual assortment of tasks - steep turns, DME arc, VOR
approach, tracking radials, etc. - and ended up shooting the ILS back to
FDK. She let me know that I'd "broken out" and could remove the hood and
proceeded to inform me that as long as I could land and park the plane, I'd
received my instrument rating. Even with that added pressure, I was able to
fly a near-perfect glideslope followed by a chirp-chirp...chirp landing that
any instructor would be proud of.

We went inside where the DE filled out my temporary certificate and I filed
my very first IFR plan where I was to be PIC - just to get home to JYO.

After all was said and done, I performed the first pre-flight of the day
before 8am and tied down after 7pm. In between, I logged 1.1 hours for the
trip to/from JYO-FDK, 4.1 hours for the long XC, and another 1.3 for the
practical test (6.5 hours of flight time) on top of the oral exam.

It was a long day.

Let this be a lesson for all: Take your instructor on the long XC flight!
:)

> Really the nerves haven't hit yet and I figure that
> the worst thing that will happen is that I'd bust some portion and
> have to retake it... Holding pattern entries would be my guess...

Good attitude. Try to stay calm. Remember that your instructor wouldn't
send you up (hopefully) unless he thought you were ready.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[Cecil E. Chapman]

> Jon Kraus
> PP-ASEL
> Student-IA (hopefully not for long)

Have a great ride, Jon! As is often said, your instructor wouldn't release
you for the checkride unless you were ready. I look forward to seeing your
'signature' changing, after April 21.

I have to admit that I am going to have to woodshed a little more on holding
patterns. Such an irony, that the very thing we will be tested on in the
practical (i.e., holding patterns) represents something that we may never be
asked to do in our entire flying career. I think I have the pattern entry
process, down, though (OnTop has helped me quite a lot with conceptualizing
the entries). Though occasionally I've done the 'wrong' entry, so to speak,
during moments of IFR training induced 'brain-fog' :-)

As for the nervousness,,, I don't know what to tell you other than to do
something relaxing the day before (unrelated to flying). If you can,, take
the day off and take in a good matinee at the movies (with an extra helping
of popcorn and root beer <g>) or if you fish, take in a day of fishing.
You'll be fine, come April 21!

Look forward to your post-checkride story,,,, really, you're going to find
that you will do just fine!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

>

[Andrew Sarangan]

Here is an interesting question. Lets say you pass your checkride, but
the examiner fails his. Do you have to retake your checkride?



Jon Kraus > wrote in message >...
> I have my IFR checkride scheduled for April 21st... To make it even more
> exciting my CFII talked me into taking my ride with a DE that is getting
> his certification for giving instrument checkrides... So not only will
> he be there but a representative from the FAA will be riding along
> critiquing him... Has anyone else had any checkride experiences along
> these lines? Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride
> experiences to take the edge off my nervousness... Really the nerves
> haven't hit yet and I figure that the worst thing that will happen is
> that I'd bust some portion and have to retake it... Holding pattern
> entries would be my guess... Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Jon Kraus
> PP-ASEL
> Student-IA (hopefully not for long)

[Jack Allison]

Good luck John. Be the plane man, be the plane...

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[C J Campbell]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
om...
> Here is an interesting question. Lets say you pass your checkride, but
> the examiner fails his. Do you have to retake your checkride?

No.

[Allen]

"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
...
> I have my IFR checkride scheduled for April 21st... To make it even more
> exciting my CFII talked me into taking my ride with a DE that is getting
> his certification for giving instrument checkrides... So not only will
> he be there but a representative from the FAA will be riding along
> critiquing him... Has anyone else had any checkride experiences along
> these lines? Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride
> experiences to take the edge off my nervousness... Really the nerves
> haven't hit yet and I figure that the worst thing that will happen is
> that I'd bust some portion and have to retake it... Holding pattern
> entries would be my guess... Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Jon Kraus
> PP-ASEL
> Student-IA (hopefully not for long)


When I took my multi-engine check ride my boss was getting his DE authority
also. The FAA Inspector from Albuquerque, NM was also training two new
inspectors. There were five of us in a Piper Navajo on a July day in NM.
Talk about "sweating" it out.

You are going about it with the right attitude. Give it the best you've got
and you'll do fine.

P.S. We all passed!

Allen Smith

[Jon Kraus]

Thanks Cecil.... I expect you to finish up before me and give me some
pointers. :-) JK

Cecil E. Chapman wrote:

>>Jon Kraus
>>PP-ASEL
>>Student-IA (hopefully not for long)
>>
>>
>
>Have a great ride, Jon! As is often said, your instructor wouldn't release
>you for the checkride unless you were ready. I look forward to seeing your
>'signature' changing, after April 21.
>
>I have to admit that I am going to have to woodshed a little more on holding
>patterns. Such an irony, that the very thing we will be tested on in the
>practical (i.e., holding patterns) represents something that we may never be
>asked to do in our entire flying career. I think I have the pattern entry
>process, down, though (OnTop has helped me quite a lot with conceptualizing
>the entries). Though occasionally I've done the 'wrong' entry, so to speak,
>during moments of IFR training induced 'brain-fog' :-)
>
>As for the nervousness,,, I don't know what to tell you other than to do
>something relaxing the day before (unrelated to flying). If you can,, take
>the day off and take in a good matinee at the movies (with an extra helping
>of popcorn and root beer <g>) or if you fish, take in a day of fishing.
>You'll be fine, come April 21!
>
>Look forward to your post-checkride story,,,, really, you're going to find
>that you will do just fine!
>
>
>

[Hilton]

Cecil,

Cecil E. Chapman wrote:
> I have to admit that I am going to have to woodshed a little more on
holding
> patterns. Such an irony, that the very thing we will be tested on in the
> practical (i.e., holding patterns) represents something that we may never
be
> asked to do in our entire flying career.

I'm sure other IFR pilots, and perhaps your CFI, have told you this - it
simply is not true. I have been given numerous holds by ATC here in the Bay
Area (where you are). Also, many approaches have a hold as part of their
misssed approach. As yourself what happens if you lose comms. I remember
hearing NorCal giving a military pilot a hold and ATC had to literally
describe to the pilot how to fly it (over PYE if I remember correctly) - I
was amazed.

Moreover, if you go into the exercise of learning holds with the thought
that you'll never use them, you probably won't maximize the learning
experience.

Hilton

[Cecil E. Chapman]

I don't know that I can completely agree with you, I've heard the issue
about hold practice, from grey haired CFI's and regular G.A. pilots,,,, they
all seem to say the same thing about holds.

I know what you are saying, but realistically, how many times have have you
been asked to hold at a towered airport because traffic load was so
prohibitive. I've only been flying since 2000, but in my personal flying
I've only ever been asked to hold because of traffic, once!,,, EVER...

Yep,,, missed approach holds,,, okay maybe there... but I don't think most
of us are going to be flying anywhere near to minimums and will be able to
make the runway just fine on the first try, since most of us are REALLY
REALLY good :->. Okay,,, kind of kidding,,,, I know that we are supposed
to handle missed approaches as if they are the norm and a landing on the
first try as unexpected.... yada yada yada....

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

> experience.
>
> Hilton
>
>

[David Brooks]

"Cecil E. Chapman" > wrote in message
. com...
> I don't know that I can completely agree with you, I've heard the issue
> about hold practice, from grey haired CFI's and regular G.A. pilots,,,,
they
> all seem to say the same thing about holds.
>
> I know what you are saying, but realistically, how many times have have
you
> been asked to hold at a towered airport because traffic load was so
> prohibitive. I've only been flying since 2000, but in my personal flying
> I've only ever been asked to hold because of traffic, once!,,, EVER...
>
> Yep,,, missed approach holds,,, okay maybe there... but I don't think
most
> of us are going to be flying anywhere near to minimums and will be able to
> make the runway just fine on the first try, since most of us are REALLY
> REALLY good :->. Okay,,, kind of kidding,,,, I know that we are supposed
> to handle missed approaches as if they are the norm and a landing on the
> first try as unexpected.... yada yada yada....

I have had scandalously few hours in the system since I passed my checkride,
and I've had to hold on approach twice. Once approaching Arlington when the
controller was trying to ensure that the predecessor, who had actually -
gasp - landed, had closed. And once at Paine when the controller had, at a
guess, been a little optimistic about sequencing.

Surely the first problem illustrates that it's going to be more likely to
happen at an untowered field because by then you're on advisories and off
radar? It doesn't have to be a busy hub. Remember to check if there's a
specific frequency for closing the plan at an untowered field (e.g. one
local airport with ILS and scheduled airline traffic uses the CD frequency,
but that's not clearly stated on the plate).

-- David Brooks

[Jon Kraus]

My soon to be DE who flys for ATA told me he has only been told to hold
4 times in his entire career... Maybe the big boys don't get holds as
much as us little guys... JK

Cecil E. Chapman wrote:

>I don't know that I can completely agree with you, I've heard the issue
>about hold practice, from grey haired CFI's and regular G.A. pilots,,,, they
>all seem to say the same thing about holds.
>
>I know what you are saying, but realistically, how many times have have you
>been asked to hold at a towered airport because traffic load was so
>prohibitive. I've only been flying since 2000, but in my personal flying
>I've only ever been asked to hold because of traffic, once!,,, EVER...
>
>Yep,,, missed approach holds,,, okay maybe there... but I don't think most
>of us are going to be flying anywhere near to minimums and will be able to
>make the runway just fine on the first try, since most of us are REALLY
>REALLY good :->. Okay,,, kind of kidding,,,, I know that we are supposed
>to handle missed approaches as if they are the norm and a landing on the
>first try as unexpected.... yada yada yada....
>
>
>

[MLenoch]

>My soon to be DE who flys for ATA told me he has only been told to hold
>4 times in his entire career... Maybe the big boys don't get holds as
>much as us little guys... JK
>

Depends. When I've flown trips at night & especially during the inbound rush,
holds were common. About once every other month. But they were much easier
with direct entries and 2+ minute legs and autopilot. Usually 2 or 3 circuits
& we were done.
VL

[Jon Kraus]

Be the plane.... be the plane... be the plane... OK got it...
Thanks.... JK

Jack Allison wrote:

>Good luck John. Be the plane man, be the plane...
>
>
>

[Richard Thomas]

Hi Allen,

> When I took my multi-engine check ride my boss was getting his DE
authority
> also. The FAA Inspector from Albuquerque, NM was also training two new
> inspectors. There were five of us in a Piper Navajo on a July day in NM.
> Talk about "sweating" it out.
>
> P.S. We all passed!

Wow that must have given the examiner(s) an opportunity to really test the
single engine climb performance! They probably all had white knuckles by
the time you landed...

I'm now hoping I don't get an extra person on board the Seminole when it
comes to taking the Multi addon, the performance is marginal at best!

Best wishes,

Richard Thomas
CP-ASEL IA
Student AMEL

[Hilton]

Cecil,

Cecil wrote:
> I don't know that I can completely agree with you, I've heard the issue
> about hold practice, from grey haired CFI's and regular G.A. pilots,,,,
they
> all seem to say the same thing about holds.

Well, it's definitely a YMMV thing. Also, it depends when and where you
fly.


> I know what you are saying, but realistically, how many times have have
you
> been asked to hold at a towered airport because traffic load was so
> prohibitive.

Firstly, that's just one of many scenarios for being asked/told to hold. To
answer your question, I don't know. Definitely more than zero, but not that
often. I've been asked to hold flying into Arcata, was given a hold out
near Modesto, have held at Tracy for the LVK ILS 25R as well as at MARNA
down near MRY. More often though I get a 'visual hold' or a 'vector hold'.
There are some approaches that start with a turn in the hold - check out
Napa - given direct SGD at 4000' cleared for the approach - you basically
fly the hold.

Hilton