Is this nuts, or what?

[Jay Honeck]

From AvWeb:

"If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on the
alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16 nautical
miles northwest of Lakeland, on Lakeland's 332-degree radial. The airport
will be the site of a world record attempt involving 140 skydivers and seven
jump aircraft. Getting caught in the middle could prove ... messy."

We are planning to fly into Sun N Fun next week. Last year we were forced
to land short, because the field was closed -- and Zephyr Hills was the most
logical airport when coming from the north. It was an absolute zoo getting
in there, because EVERYONE was stuck doing the same thing.

Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Seems like they might have
> tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

They're probably saying the same thing about Sun'n Fun. With just as much
justification.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
> They're probably saying the same thing about Sun'n Fun. With just
> as much justification.
>

Hmmm...., hasn't Sun 'n Fun been at that same location for some 25 years or
so?

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
>
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > They're probably saying the same thing about Sun'n Fun. With just
> > as much justification.
>
> Hmmm...., hasn't Sun 'n Fun been at that same location for some 25 years or
> so?

And similar lines about airports and housing developments haven't worked in at least
that long.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
> And similar lines about airports and housing developments
> haven't worked in at least that long.
>

The point was about justification. It is not equal.

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
>
> The point was about justification. It is not equal.

I disagree.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
> I disagree.
>

It's not a matter of opinion.

[Maule Driver]

If they were fully aware of SF, they may have ... or may not. No reason to
expect those 'meat bombs' to pay any attention or even be aware of SF. If
they've done the proper notifications and Notams are issued I don't see any
reason to expect them to not to do it.

25years doesn't really change anything.

Both events pose a risk to each other due to potential irresponsible
behavior. I can't figure out any basis for preference. But I'm staying the
hell away!

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53...
> From AvWeb:
>
> "If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on
the
> alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
> 14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16
nautical
> miles northwest of Lakeland, on Lakeland's 332-degree radial. The airport
> will be the site of a world record attempt involving 140 skydivers and
seven
> jump aircraft. Getting caught in the middle could prove ... messy."
>
> We are planning to fly into Sun N Fun next week. Last year we were forced
> to land short, because the field was closed -- and Zephyr Hills was the
most
> logical airport when coming from the north. It was an absolute zoo
getting
> in there, because EVERYONE was stuck doing the same thing.
>
> Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm
having
> a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
> field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
> tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[EDR]

I started skydiving in 1973.
There has been an annual Z-Hill Boogie every year.
This may be a year when the Boogie and SNF conflict.
Those record loads are going up into the mid- to high-teens.
Canopy opening altitudes will be between 2000 and 4000 feet AGL.
Depending on the upper level winds, the loads may exit several miles
upwind from the airport.
With the surface area of 140 bodies linked together, the formation can
be "flown" (until it loses shape and integrity).
The large loads will require multiple aircraft, five or six DC-3's(?)
or more smaller aircraft.

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Jay Honeck > posted:

> From AvWeb:
>
> "If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be
> on the alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport
> between April 14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH)
> is located 16 nautical miles northwest of Lakeland, on Lakeland's
> 332-degree radial. The airport will be the site of a world record
> attempt involving 140 skydivers and seven jump aircraft. Getting
> caught in the middle could prove ... messy."
>
Neat! A "cluster meat bomb"! ;-)

At least they warned you.

Neil

[Dale]

In article <76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
> a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
> field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
> tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

Why not? The skydivers are at Z-hills, not Lakeland. Z-Hills has
skydiving 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year.

I was at Z-hills in '94. Broke off from a jump and was tracking away as
a flight of 4 aircraft passed under us...I think they were RV's. It
always amazes me how many pilots fly around with their heads "up and
locked". Flying through a skydiving area is just dumb.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Ben Jackson]

In article <76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
>"If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on the
>alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
>14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16 nautical
>miles northwest of Lakeland,

No problem, just explain how well pilots study and follow the Osh/SNF
NOTAMs for arrivals and then tell the jumpers that the pilots will
have access to a secondary NOTAM that will mention their jumping.
That should make the situation crystal clear for them. :)

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:56:51 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>From AvWeb:
>
>"If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on the
>alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
>14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16 nautical
>miles northwest of Lakeland, on Lakeland's 332-degree radial. The airport
>will be the site of a world record attempt involving 140 skydivers and seven
>jump aircraft. Getting caught in the middle could prove ... messy."
>
It may be the site involving a world record attempt but that many in
the air at Sypher Hills is not uncommon. It's one of the major
skydiving locations in the country.

>We are planning to fly into Sun N Fun next week. Last year we were forced
>to land short, because the field was closed -- and Zephyr Hills was the most
>logical airport when coming from the north. It was an absolute zoo getting
>in there, because EVERYONE was stuck doing the same thing.
>
>Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having

Other than being a record attempt the number is nothing new for them
and even then record attempts are being made quite regularly.

When I was down there they were making three trips an hour with three
twin turboprops hauling 20 jumpers each and one run an hour with a
DC-3 hauling 40 jumpers. That could easily run a 100 in the air at one
time and 220 per hour. They do this from dawn till dusk as long as
the weather is good enough to jump. BTW The turboprops were beating
most of their jumpers to the ground.

It's strange to hear, "jumpers away" at 13,000 and almost in the same
breath XXX is down wind for 18 at 10,000, followed by XXX is base for
18 at 5000, followed by XXX turning final. They will make that
descent in less time than most of us could imagine doing a regular
pattern. Seems like I figured their rate of descent to be as high as
120 MPH (over 10,000 FPM averages over 5000 FPM) at points. Soooo
You have a lot more to watch out for than looking for can-oh-pees...

>a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled

You better be visualizing those big twins dropping like missiles! As
I said their down wind is close to 10,000 feet.

>field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
>tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

You have to fit in. To top it off the odds of finding a place to
stay, or spend the night are next to nil that close to Lakeland.

Unless things have changed you are lucky to get an answer out of
unicom/ctaf. I always talk to the jump planes.

BTW, if they make you nervous, think of how they feel with a bunch of
planes coming in that are not used to mixing it up with skydivers and
particularly at one of the busiest skydiving centers in the nation.
Last I heard there were two jump schools there.

Oh! When headed South, if your flight path is any where near Zypher
Hills, pass well to the East as they abut Tampa Bay's airspace on the
West.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:14:48 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>
>"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> They're probably saying the same thing about Sun'n Fun. With just
>> as much justification.
>>
>
>Hmmm...., hasn't Sun 'n Fun been at that same location for some 25 years or
>so?

And I believe the jump schools at Zypher Hills as well.

They are worried about 140 jumpers in the air. Another figure to
consider is on a 10 hour day you can expect over 2,000 if they run 220
an hour That is assuming they are still running at the rate they
were the last time I was down there, but that was a few years back.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0800, Dale > wrote:

>In article <76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53>,
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>> Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
>> a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
>> field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
>> tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?
>
>Why not? The skydivers are at Z-hills, not Lakeland. Z-Hills has
>skydiving 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year.
>
>I was at Z-hills in '94. Broke off from a jump and was tracking away as
>a flight of 4 aircraft passed under us...I think they were RV's. It
>always amazes me how many pilots fly around with their heads "up and
>locked". Flying through a skydiving area is just dumb.

Specially when it's so easy to coordinate with the jump planes if you
are going into that airport.

However when "passing through" I'd give it a wide berth.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Gene Seibel]

Just like diverting to Fond Du Lac when OSH is not taking traffic and
finding racers circling the airport at 500 feet.
--
Gene Seibel
Confessions of a Pilot - http://pad39a.com/publishing/
Because I fly, I envy no one.



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53>...
> From AvWeb:
>
> "If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on the
> alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
> 14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16 nautical
> miles northwest of Lakeland, on Lakeland's 332-degree radial. The airport
> will be the site of a world record attempt involving 140 skydivers and seven
> jump aircraft. Getting caught in the middle could prove ... messy."
>
> We are planning to fly into Sun N Fun next week. Last year we were forced
> to land short, because the field was closed -- and Zephyr Hills was the most
> logical airport when coming from the north. It was an absolute zoo getting
> in there, because EVERYONE was stuck doing the same thing.
>
> Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
> a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
> field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
> tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

[Jay Honeck]

> Just like diverting to Fond Du Lac when OSH is not taking traffic and
> finding racers circling the airport at 500 feet.

Last year at OSH we got stuck in a "hold in place" pattern because the air
racers were arriving.

Last year at SNF we got stuck in a "hold around the lake" pattern because
the airport was late in re-opening after the air show.

All these are expected and normal -- but 140 skydivers? During probably THE
busiest week for air traffic in the Zephyr Hills area?

Seems downright ignorant for the organizers to do. But we'll give 'em a
wide berth!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mackfly]

>From: EDR
>Date: 4/8/04 9:56 AM Central Daylight Time

>With the surface area of 140 bodies linked together, the formation can
>be "flown" (until it loses shape and integrity).

Yous guys gotta get that notion out of your heads "FLOWN." Ya might change
your path a couple of degrees but ya ain't a flying. And ya ain't never gonna.
A rock is a Rock, is a Rock, is a Rock. mac

[EDR]

In article >, Mackfly
> wrote:

> >From: EDR
> >Date: 4/8/04 9:56 AM Central Daylight Time
>
> >With the surface area of 140 bodies linked together, the formation can
> >be "flown" (until it loses shape and integrity).
>
> Yous guys gotta get that notion out of your heads "FLOWN." Ya might change
> your path a couple of degrees but ya ain't a flying. And ya ain't never
> gonna.
> A rock is a Rock, is a Rock, is a Rock. mac

Wellll... back in the 70's there was theoretical discussion as to just
how large a formation was need to actually "land".

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
>
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I disagree.
>
> It's not a matter of opinion.

I disagree there, too.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[Jay Honeck]

> Wellll... back in the 70's there was theoretical discussion as to just
> how large a formation was need to actually "land".

So, in 30 years, they'v decided that it's...not possible? Not practical?
Not doable? It seems with enough bodies, you could "glide" to a landing,
no? (Well, the landing itself might be a bit harsh...)

Inquiring minds want to know!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave Stadt]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Mackfly
> > wrote:
>
> > >From: EDR
> > >Date: 4/8/04 9:56 AM Central Daylight Time
> >
> > >With the surface area of 140 bodies linked together, the formation can
> > >be "flown" (until it loses shape and integrity).
> >
> > Yous guys gotta get that notion out of your heads "FLOWN." Ya might
change
> > your path a couple of degrees but ya ain't a flying. And ya ain't never
> > gonna.
> > A rock is a Rock, is a Rock, is a Rock. mac
>
> Wellll... back in the 70's there was theoretical discussion as to just
> how large a formation was need to actually "land".

I believe that number is one. It has been done many, many times. They
might want to add a survival rate in the high 99% range to the equation.

[KG]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53>...
> From AvWeb:
>
> "If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on the
> alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
> 14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16 nautical
> miles northwest of Lakeland, on Lakeland's 332-degree radial. The airport
> will be the site of a world record attempt involving 140 skydivers and seven
> jump aircraft. Getting caught in the middle could prove ... messy."
>
> We are planning to fly into Sun N Fun next week. Last year we were forced
> to land short, because the field was closed -- and Zephyr Hills was the most
> logical airport when coming from the north. It was an absolute zoo getting
> in there, because EVERYONE was stuck doing the same thing.
>
> Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
> a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
> field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
> tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

Aw, come on. Let's play nice together and share our airspace with
everyone.

I guarantee that you won't be able to miss 140 skydivers falling
through the sky. They are easy to spot. Anytime you are in the
vicinity of a dropzone(the parachute symbol on your sectional) make
sure that you have your radio tuned to the proper CTAF for the
airport. They will announce their jump run and when jumpers are away.
After that wait 60-90 seconds for the airspace above 4000' to clear
and another 5 minutes for the jumpers to land their canopies. The
record attempt won't jump more than once every couple of hours(at the
most), so your airspace will be tied up for 7 minutes out of 120+.

Remember that they will always be upwind from the dropzone. Their
distance depends on the winds and their intended opening altitude, but
generally it will be a mile or less.

There are literally dozens of dropzones in the Central Florida area.
Central Florida is one of the most popular areas of the country to
skydive. On one trip to Orlando, I jumped 5 different dropzones
within an hours drive of Orlando. And I didn't make it to all the
dropzones that I wanted to.

I've been a skydiver a lot longer than I've been a pilot, but
skydivers still make me nervous when I'm a pilot and pilots make me
nervous when I'm a skydiver. I did have an incident a number of years
ago that was the result of a controller who thought the skydivers
didn't belong in his airspace and refused to talk to our pilot. He
failed to warn us of an approaching American Eagle flight that was
5000 feet below us and approaching at 200+ knots. When our 3-way
skydiving formation got to the American Eagle's altitude there was
about 100 feet of separation. We waved at the pilot with saucer sized
eyeballs as we went by. Obviously this incident could have been fatal
for the skydivers and everyone onboard the American Eagle flight. All
it would have taken to avoid the incident was a little communication.

That's all it will take in this situation. Communicate.

BTW, since you are now informed about the situation at Zephyrhills, if
you still don't like the situation, simply don't use this airport.
There are plenty of other airports around.

Kenny G.

"You can't swim in a boat or fly in an airplane, get out of the
vehicle and enjoy the element."

[KG]

(Mackfly) wrote in message >...
> >From: EDR
> >Date: 4/8/04 9:56 AM Central Daylight Time
>
> >With the surface area of 140 bodies linked together, the formation can
> >be "flown" (until it loses shape and integrity).
>
> Yous guys gotta get that notion out of your heads "FLOWN." Ya might change
> your path a couple of degrees but ya ain't a flying. And ya ain't never gonna.
> A rock is a Rock, is a Rock, is a Rock. mac

You can't fly in an airplane anymore than you can swim in a boat.

[Capt.Doug]

>"Roger Halstead" wrote in message > And I believe the jump schools at
>Zypher Hills as well.

Jumpers were at ZPH before Sun-n-Fun was at LAL. ZPH lies under a Victor
airway (which is one of only 2 victor airways into South Florida without
going into Class B airspace). There is a parachute next to ZHP on the
sectional. Notams are routinely issued IAW FARs.

It may be nuts to those who choose to sensationalize it. Realistically, it
happens most weekends.

Now then, who has the right-of-way, the plane or the jumper?

D.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
...
>
> Now then, who has the right-of-way, the plane or the jumper?
>

The plane.


§ 105.5 General.
No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an
aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from an aircraft,
if that operation creates a hazard to air traffic or to persons or property
on the surface.

[Steve]

Back when I used to skydive I remember the following saying being
proudly yelled to the local pilots:
"If driving a plane is flying, then why isn't driving a boat called
swimming?"

On 08 Apr 2004 19:57:57 GMT, (Mackfly) wrote:

>>From: EDR
>>Date: 4/8/04 9:56 AM Central Daylight Time
>
>>With the surface area of 140 bodies linked together, the formation can
>>be "flown" (until it loses shape and integrity).
>
>Yous guys gotta get that notion out of your heads "FLOWN." Ya might change
>your path a couple of degrees but ya ain't a flying. And ya ain't never gonna.
>A rock is a Rock, is a Rock, is a Rock. mac

[Jim Buckridge]

"Jay Honeck" moaned:

> Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
> a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
> field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
> tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

Tampa Bay Soaring is based there too. My sister has 500+ jumps out of
Sky Dive City there. They've coexisted with Skydive City nicely for
many years.

It'll be fine. The meat bombs don't stay up very long.

[[email protected]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message t>...
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > They're probably saying the same thing about Sun'n Fun. With just
> > as much justification.
> >
>
> Hmmm...., hasn't Sun 'n Fun been at that same location for some 25 years or
> so?

Not a very good argument. Z-Hills has had continuous skydiving
operations there since the mid-60's. During it's heyday some
considered it "the" premier
"drop-zone" in the world. Also, the jump center is a business and the
time of year around Easter has historically been one of it's busiest
seasons. We skydivers like to get along with pilots. Can't jump
without them. :-) (just my humble opinion!)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
om...
>
> Not a very good argument. Z-Hills has had continuous skydiving
> operations there since the mid-60's. During it's heyday some
> considered it "the" premier "drop-zone" in the world. Also, the
> jump center is a business and the time of year around Easter
> has historically been one of it's busiest seasons. We skydivers
> like to get along with pilots. Can't jump without them. :-) (just
> my humble opinion!)
>

What argument did you assume I was making?

[BllFs6]

>Not a very good argument. Z-Hills has had continuous skydiving
>operations there since the mid-60's. During it's heyday some
>considered it "the" premier
>"drop-zone" in the world. Also, the jump center is a business and the
>time of year around Easter has historically been one of it's busiest
>seasons. We skydivers like to get along with pilots. Can't jump
>without them. :-) (just my humble opinion!)
>

Yeah,

And I lived in the same town almost my whole life, but I have enough sense to
stay away from the madness on the weekend when they have the St Patricks day
drunkfest downtown....

Sure, they skydive there every weekend....and sure they have been doing it
forever....and sure, they even have the RIGHT to be doing so...

But still a little prudence on their part one time outa the whole year is only
gonna help THEM....

Skydivers vs airplanes is just like pedestrians vs cars....the skydiver or
pedestrian theorectically has the right of way but they virtually always LOOSE
in any "conflict".....

I sure as heck wouldnt be skydiving in an area where the air traffic is 100 to
1000 times its normal level and a fair percentage of the pilots probably dont
know how to deal with skydivers, and even the ones that do might not do so
properly in all the hustle, bustle, and confusion....

Betting your life that someone else will do the right thing when you dont have
to doesnt seem to wise to me.....

take care

Blll

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, BllFs6 wrote:
> Skydivers vs airplanes is just like pedestrians vs cars....the skydiver or
> pedestrian theorectically has the right of way but they virtually always LOOSE
> in any "conflict".....

In many mid-airs between skydivers and aircraft, surprisingly often the
aircraft comes off much worse (crashes with the loss of all on board)
whilst the skydiver breaks a bone.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"BllFs6" > wrote in message
...
>
> Skydivers vs airplanes is just like pedestrians vs cars....the skydiver
> or pedestrian theorectically has the right of way but they virtually
> always LOOSE in any "conflict".....
>

Actually, it's the other way round. Unlike the pedestrian vs the car, it's
the airplane that has the right-of-way over the skydiver.

I'm not sure I can agree with your other point either. I seem to recall a
few skydiver/airplane collisions that knocked the airplane out of the sky
while the injured skydiver returned via parachute.

[BllFs6]

>Actually, it's the other way round. Unlike the pedestrian vs the car, it's
>the airplane that has the right-of-way over the skydiver.
>
>I'm not sure I can agree with your other point either. I seem to recall a
>few skydiver/airplane collisions that knocked the airplane out of the sky
>while the injured skydiver returned via parachute.

Few doesnt equate to most does it?

but in anycase I sure wouldnt want to risk brown underwear or serious injury
anymore than neccessary because someone ELSE is too stupid to do the right
thing....

And it sure seems to me that during SnF that you'll have ALOT more crazies
buzzing around south florida than you normally do...but maybe not....

take care

Blll

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"BllFs6" > wrote in message
...
>
> Few doesnt equate to most does it?
>

No, few does not equate to most. But while I can recall a few
skydiver/airplane collisions that knocked the airplane out of the sky while
the injured skydiver returned via parachute, I can't recall any that killed
the skydiver and the airplane landed safely. Would you agree that few is
more than none?

[BllFs6]

>Would you agree that few is
>more than none?
>

okay

Ill even give you that...if thats the case....

but I still wouldnt want to be the first....or even more importantly from a
pragmatic aspect .....worrying about being the first....kinda takes the fun out
it ya know...

and still more...if I lived as the skydiver and the airplane folks died I'd
feel bad even if it was totally their fault....

take care

Blll

[[email protected]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message et>...
> > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > Not a very good argument. Z-Hills has had continuous skydiving
> > operations there since the mid-60's. During it's heyday some
> > considered it "the" premier "drop-zone" in the world. Also, the
> > jump center is a business and the time of year around Easter
> > has historically been one of it's busiest seasons. We skydivers
> > like to get along with pilots. Can't jump without them. :-) (just
> > my humble opinion!)
> >
>
> What argument did you assume I was making?

Sorry, I just assumed (perhaps mistakenly), by following the thread,
that you were making some sort of case for shutting down a business
for a week during
one of it's busiest times so a bunch of guys could have a club meeting
16 miles away. I'll try to read the thread more carefully and try to
put it into
context. I know that the DZ at Zephyrhills uses up more than 2 whole
cubic miles of sky but maybe if everyone pays attention there won't be
any problems. By the looks of the weather around here (Lakeland) the
last couple of days, there may not be anything to worry about anyway.
Blue Ones, TP.
(Disclaimer: I have no professional connection to the DZ -- just a
concerned consumer. Also, I have been an advocate of SF since it's
inception and have not missed a single year.)

[Paul Sengupta]

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
> When I was down there they were making three trips an hour with three
> twin turboprops hauling 20 jumpers each and one run an hour with a
> DC-3 hauling 40 jumpers. That could easily run a 100 in the air at one
> time and 220 per hour. They do this from dawn till dusk as long as
> the weather is good enough to jump.

Zephyrhills was one of the stops on our qualifying cross country.
Winter Haven - Ocala - Zephyrhills - Winter Haven. Not-quite
PPLs mixing it with the jumpers! They do Zephyrhills mineral water
from one of those water cooler things at the FBO.

> You have to fit in. To top it off the odds of finding a place to
> stay, or spend the night are next to nil that close to Lakeland.

Maybe, maybe not. The motel where I stay mostly in Winter
Haven would not always be full during S'n'F. And that's only a
short drive away down highway 92.

http://www.usa-lodging.net/motels/florida/WinterHaven.htm

Paul

[Paul Sengupta]

Other alternatives to Lakeland are Winter Haven, Bartow, Plant
City and Lake Wales, all pretty close. 5-15 miles. (ok, Lake Wales
is 21.9, just looked it up on Airnav)

There are quite a few others around the area too. Around
Tampa you have Peter O'Knight, Vandenburg, around Orlando
you have Orlando Exec, Kissimmee, Sanford, (ignoring Tampa
and Orlando Internationals, though Tampa and the Raytheon
FBO there are very friendly).

Coming in from the north you have DeLand and Leesburg
or even Ocala (all a bit far out). Carry on a bit to the south
and you have Sebring, Wauchula, Arcadia and Avon Park.

You're spoilt for choice round that area. I haven't listed
the small strips or airparks either.

Lake Wales also has jumpers.

Paul