Rental aircraft logs

[Chris Gumm]

I hope I'm not the only one guilty of this, but do any of you that rent
aircraft ever look at the logs? I have never looked at ant log for an
aircraft I rented, it wasn't even brought up in my training. Well actually
it was only mentioned while I was doing training. I recently found out that
the current aircraft I rent crashed a few years back.

[Bob Gardner]

You are responsible if you accept an unairworthy airplane and go flying
(91.7). Chances of getting caught, absent an accident or incident, are
minimal....but you are still holding the bag. Most FBOs will look at you
like you are crazy if you ask to see the logs, but it is your prerogative.

Bob Gardner

"Chris Gumm" > wrote in message
...
> I hope I'm not the only one guilty of this, but do any of you that rent
> aircraft ever look at the logs? I have never looked at ant log for an
> aircraft I rented, it wasn't even brought up in my training. Well actually
> it was only mentioned while I was doing training. I recently found out
that
> the current aircraft I rent crashed a few years back.
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Chris Gumm wrote:
>
> I hope I'm not the only one guilty of this, but do any of you that rent
> aircraft ever look at the logs? I have never looked at ant log for an
> aircraft I rented, it wasn't even brought up in my training. Well actually
> it was only mentioned while I was doing training. I recently found out that
> the current aircraft I rent crashed a few years back.

I did once. It was a requirement for the test for my private certificate. My CFI made
sure the logs were available and in the plane and that I know what to look for if the
examiner asked.

He didn't.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[Peter Duniho]

"Chris Gumm" > wrote in message
...
> I hope I'm not the only one guilty of this, but do any of you that rent
> aircraft ever look at the logs?

Not regularly, no. I have on occasion, but usually just in preparation for
a checkride (for which I've always reviewed the logs), or with an FBO I've
never rented from before. If I've gotten to know the FBO and they appear to
have their maintenance department in order, the dispatch forms generally
give me what I need to know to be assured the aircraft is airworthy, both
paperwise and physically.

Of course, there's a possibility the aircraft might be unairworthy, and you
might be called out on it by the FAA. But I've never heard of a case where
the FAA went aggressively after a pilot who flew a rental that turned out to
not have its logbooks in order. Not saying it's never happened, but it
doesn't seem like a common occurrance. I'd be more concerned just with
respect to how well the FBO keeps up with the maintenance; if they do, then
the logbooks are likely to be fine, and if they don't, the logbooks are the
least of your worries (other than them being a way for you to note that the
maintenance isn't being done properly).

Pete

[lardsoup]

Here's my take on the rental worthiness thing. See what you think.

The FBO where I rent keeps a log in the plane, along with the HOBBS log,
that lists when all the annual inspections are due, when the VORs were
checked last and a list to write up problems with the plane and the
corrective actions taken to fix the write ups. Also, when I go to the
counter I ask, "Is the plane airworthy, legal and safe to fly?" They say
yes and I'm good to go. Along with a good pre-flight I figure I've done a
responsible job in determining whether the aircraft is safe for flight

Even if I looked at the actual logs there's no why to tell that they are
accurate or the A&Ps actually did any of the work in the logs.

But, if I went to a new FBO, I would ask to see the logs. Just to see their
reaction. If I got any heat about it, I probably would not rent there. If
they said "no problem" I'd feel OK.

[KG]

"Chris Gumm" > wrote in message >...
> I hope I'm not the only one guilty of this, but do any of you that rent
> aircraft ever look at the logs? I have never looked at ant log for an
> aircraft I rented, it wasn't even brought up in my training. Well actually
> it was only mentioned while I was doing training. I recently found out that
> the current aircraft I rent crashed a few years back.

My FBO keeps the logs in a cabinet in the office. They are available
at anytime that the office is open. Obviously they don't want you to
remove them for any purpose, but they will make copies if you need
them. The only time I've ever personally looked at them was for my
checkride. The examiner asked me how I knew that the aircraft was
airworthy and legal to fly.

Kenny G.

[Andrew Sarangan]

This depends on the FBO. In most cases, I consider a verbal
confirmation from the FBO as acceptable. If I don't trust their word
that much, I wouldn't rent from them at all, logbook or not.

What is particularly worrying is that this topic was not even brought
up in your training. You should have at least located all the
documetation and maintenance items. All the DE's I know expected the
student to demonstrate the airworthiness of the airplane.


"Chris Gumm" > wrote in message >...
> I hope I'm not the only one guilty of this, but do any of you that rent
> aircraft ever look at the logs? I have never looked at ant log for an
> aircraft I rented, it wasn't even brought up in my training. Well actually
> it was only mentioned while I was doing training. I recently found out that
> the current aircraft I rent crashed a few years back.

[Ross Oliver]

Peter Duniho > wrote:
>Of course, there's a possibility the aircraft might be unairworthy, and you
>might be called out on it by the FAA. But I've never heard of a case where
>the FAA went aggressively after a pilot who flew a rental that turned out to
>not have its logbooks in order.


An article in the Sept. 2000 issue of AOPA Pilot ("Aircraft inspection and
the renter pilot," pg 136) describes how the FAA suspended a renter pilot's
certificate for 30 days after it was discovered that the annual inspection
of the Cessna 152 the pilot had rented had expired 12 days before the
pilot's flight. The pilot appealed to the NTSB, which upheld the FAA's
suspension. According to the article, this decision created new precedent
establishing that renter pilots cannot rely on the FBO to assure aicraft
airworthiness.

Now whenever I go to a new FBO to rent from, I insist on seeing the aircraft
logs, and present a copy of this article if there is any question. If the
FBO still refuses, I will not rent from them.


Ross Oliver

[Peter Duniho]

"Ross Oliver" > wrote in message
...
> An article in the Sept. 2000 issue of AOPA Pilot ("Aircraft inspection and
> the renter pilot," pg 136) describes how the FAA suspended a renter
pilot's
> certificate for 30 days after it was discovered that the annual inspection
> of the Cessna 152 the pilot had rented had expired 12 days before the
> pilot's flight.

I don't consider that to be an "aggressive" action. I didn't mean to imply
that the FAA never goes after renters for stuff like this. Just that they
don't consider it a major violation, AFAIK.

For what it's worth, I may not check the logbooks every flight, but I do
expect any FBO from which I rent to have some sort of record-keeping and
dispatch procedure that keeps me apprised of when the annual is due, so that
I can avoid flying an airplane that's out of annual. The renter in the case
you mention would have done well to follow a similar policy.

Pete

[Brian Burger]

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Chris Gumm wrote:

> I hope I'm not the only one guilty of this, but do any of you that rent
> aircraft ever look at the logs? I have never looked at ant log for an
> aircraft I rented, it wasn't even brought up in my training. Well actually
> it was only mentioned while I was doing training. I recently found out that
> the current aircraft I rent crashed a few years back.

The Club's aircraft all have Journey Logs; those logs plus the plane's
other papers are handed over with the keys when you sign the plane out,
and the instructors expect you to check at least the most recent page or
two quickly to see if anything has been done to the plane (mechanic-wise)
and how much it's flown lately.

That's become second nature, after 190+hrs of flying Club planes. Even
when I'm PIC I always check the Journey Logs very quickly. At the very
least, knowing whether the plane's already been used that day or not will
give you a clue as to how difficult the beast will be to start... :>

Brian - PP-ASEL/Night -