Slip slidin' away.

[Uncle Fuzzy[_2_]]

For fun. If you get the chance to fly a Janus up high. Play with slips. It will 'lock over' to either side, dropping like a set of car keys (Thanks for that image JS) and the canopy mounted yaw string (s) will be pointing..... well, you'll see.
I started playing with this about the time that Jonkers broke a rudder cable and the guy had to bail. Having read Derek Piggot's warning about the Janus, and realizing it really took a LOT of pedal force to straighten up, I started thinking about 'recovery' if one of my 30+ year old rudder cables broke. Turns out it IS recoverable, but involves a lot of elevator, and eats a lot of altitude. From a mile AGL, it's doable.

Wondering how long my wandering will persist.

[John Galloway[_1_]]

Just to address the reference to the JS1 accident, according to
Uys Jonker speaking at the BGA conference, what happened
there was not a broken rudder cable but similar to what you
describe in the Janus (and various other gliders) i.e. a situation
of a high pedal force required to overcome a locked-over rudder
in a side slip.

This scenario is described in the JS1 flight manual as:

"WARNING: If an excessive slip angle is not corrected with
opposite rudder input, the secondary effect of yaw may cause
the sailplane to roll and enter a spiral dive. It is not possible to
prevent roll by applying full opposite aileron during excessive
sideslip.

CAUTION: The rudder control input force to recover from a side
slip exceeding 20° is high (approximately 20daN) and increases
if the speed is allowed to build up during the resulting spiral
dive. Apply sufficient rudder input to recover from the sideslip to
prevent spiral dive."

John Galloway

At 07:45 30 August 2013, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
>For fun. If you get the chance to fly a Janus up high. Play
with slips.
>I=
>t will 'lock over' to either side, dropping like a set of car keys
(Thanks
>=
>for that image JS) and the canopy mounted yaw string (s) will
be
>pointing..=
>... well, you'll see.
>I started playing with this about the time that Jonkers broke a
rudder
>cabl=
>e and the guy had to bail. Having read Derek Piggot's warning
about the
>Jan=
>us, and realizing it really took a LOT of pedal force to
straighten up, I
>s=
>tarted thinking about 'recovery' if one of my 30+ year old
rudder cables
>br=
>oke. Turns out it IS recoverable, but involves a lot of elevator,
and eats
>=
>a lot of altitude. From a mile AGL, it's doable.=20
>
>Wondering how long my wandering will persist.
>

[mike]

Is that right?

The sister ship also at the same field had the same problem. Luckily it failed on the ground. I was shown the frayed cable prior to its complete failure.

Mike

On Friday, August 30, 2013 8:30:42 AM UTC-6, John Galloway wrote:
> Just to address the reference to the JS1 accident, according to
>
> Uys Jonker speaking at the BGA conference, what happened
>
> there was not a broken rudder cable but similar to what you
>
> describe in the Janus (and various other gliders) i.e. a situation
>
> of a high pedal force required to overcome a locked-over rudder
>
> in a side slip.
>
>
>
> This scenario is described in the JS1 flight manual as:
>
>
>
> "WARNING: If an excessive slip angle is not corrected with
>
> opposite rudder input, the secondary effect of yaw may cause
>
> the sailplane to roll and enter a spiral dive. It is not possible to
>
> prevent roll by applying full opposite aileron during excessive
>
> sideslip.
>
>
>
> CAUTION: The rudder control input force to recover from a side
>
> slip exceeding 20° is high (approximately 20daN) and increases
>
> if the speed is allowed to build up during the resulting spiral
>
> dive. Apply sufficient rudder input to recover from the sideslip to
>
> prevent spiral dive."
>
>
>
> John Galloway
>
>
>
> At 07:45 30 August 2013, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
>
> >For fun. If you get the chance to fly a Janus up high. Play
>
> with slips.
>
> >I=
>
> >t will 'lock over' to either side, dropping like a set of car keys
>
> (Thanks
>
> >=
>
> >for that image JS) and the canopy mounted yaw string (s) will
>
> be
>
> >pointing..=
>
> >... well, you'll see.
>
> >I started playing with this about the time that Jonkers broke a
>
> rudder
>
> >cabl=
>
> >e and the guy had to bail. Having read Derek Piggot's warning
>
> about the
>
> >Jan=
>
> >us, and realizing it really took a LOT of pedal force to
>
> straighten up, I
>
> >s=
>
> >tarted thinking about 'recovery' if one of my 30+ year old
>
> rudder cables
>
> >br=
>
> >oke. Turns out it IS recoverable, but involves a lot of elevator,
>
> and eats
>
> >=
>
> >a lot of altitude. From a mile AGL, it's doable.=20
>
> >
>
> >Wondering how long my wandering will persist.
>
> >

The FAA inspected the sailplane and found a worn through rudder cable. The sister ship, at the same field, had the same problem and failed on the ground.

[John Galloway[_1_]]

It is certainly right insofar as that was what was described in
the Jonker Sailplanes presentation to the BGA conference and
has also been added to the flight manual V3. As someone on
the JS1 waiting list I was listening attentively and I knew that
the original suspicion had been of a broken rudder cable and
also that JS1 rudder cable S tubes had been modified after the
accident.

Has an accident investigation report been published in the US?

John Galloway




At 15:29 30 August 2013, mike wrote:
>Is that right?
>
>The sister ship also at the same field had the same problem.
Luckily it
>fa=
>iled on the ground. I was shown the frayed cable prior to its
complete
>fail=
>ure.
>
>Mike
>
>On Friday, August 30, 2013 8:30:42 AM UTC-6, John Galloway
wrote:
>> Just to address the reference to the JS1 accident, according
to=20
>>=20
>> Uys Jonker speaking at the BGA conference, what
happened=20
>>=20
>> there was not a broken rudder cable but similar to what
you=20
>>=20
>> describe in the Janus (and various other gliders) i.e. a
situation=20
>>=20
>> of a high pedal force required to overcome a locked-over
rudder=20
>>=20
>> in a side slip. =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> This scenario is described in the JS1 flight manual as:
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> "WARNING: If an excessive slip angle is not corrected
with=20
>>=20
>> opposite rudder input, the secondary effect of yaw may
cause=20
>>=20
>> the sailplane to roll and enter a spiral dive. It is not possible
to=20
>>=20
>> prevent roll by applying full opposite aileron during
excessive=20
>>=20
>> sideslip.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> CAUTION: The rudder control input force to recover from a
side=20
>>=20
>> slip exceeding 20=B0 is high (approximately 20daN) and
increases=20
>>=20
>> if the speed is allowed to build up during the resulting
spiral=20
>>=20
>> dive. Apply sufficient rudder input to recover from the
sideslip to=20
>>=20
>> prevent spiral dive."
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> John Galloway
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> At 07:45 30 August 2013, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
>>=20
>> >For fun. If you get the chance to fly a Janus up high.
Play=20
>>=20
>> with slips.
>>=20
>> >I=3D
>>=20
>> >t will 'lock over' to either side, dropping like a set of car
keys=20
>>=20
>> (Thanks
>>=20
>> >=3D
>>=20
>> >for that image JS) and the canopy mounted yaw string (s)
will=20
>>=20
>> be
>>=20
>> >pointing..=3D
>>=20
>> >... well, you'll see.
>>=20
>> >I started playing with this about the time that Jonkers
broke a=20
>>=20
>> rudder
>>=20
>> >cabl=3D
>>=20
>> >e and the guy had to bail. Having read Derek Piggot's
warning=20
>>=20
>> about the
>>=20
>> >Jan=3D
>>=20
>> >us, and realizing it really took a LOT of pedal force to=20
>>=20
>> straighten up, I
>>=20
>> >s=3D
>>=20
>> >tarted thinking about 'recovery' if one of my 30+ year
old=20
>>=20
>> rudder cables
>>=20
>> >br=3D
>>=20
>> >oke. Turns out it IS recoverable, but involves a lot of
elevator,=20
>>=20
>> and eats
>>=20
>> >=3D
>>=20
>> >a lot of altitude. From a mile AGL, it's doable.=3D20
>>=20
>> >
>>=20
>> >Wondering how long my wandering will persist.
>>=20
>> >
>
>The FAA inspected the sailplane and found a worn through
rudder cable. The
>=
>sister ship, at the same field, had the same problem and failed
on the
>grou=
>nd.
>

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:

> For fun. If you get the chance to fly a Janus up high. Play with slips. It
> will 'lock over' to either side, dropping like a set of car keys (Thanks for
> that image JS) and the canopy mounted yaw string (s) will be pointing....
> well, you'll see.
> I started playing with this about the time that Jonkers broke a rudder cable
> and the guy had to bail. Having read Derek Piggot's warning about the Janus,
> and realizing it really took a LOT of pedal force to straighten up, I started
> thinking about 'recovery' if one of my 30+ year old rudder cables broke.
> Turns out it IS recoverable, but involves a lot of elevator, and eats a lot
> of altitude. From a mile AGL, it's doable.
>
> Wondering how long my wandering will persist.

Would love to fly a Janus sometime. Never even seen one in person.

I have played with full rudder slips in a 301 Libelle and a Standard
Cirrus above 6000 ft agl, at around 50 knots starting airspeed. Nothing
happened in the Libelle except for flying fairly sideways and generating
a pretty good sink rate. Tried gradually pulling the nose up to see at
what attitude/airspeed it would start to misbehave. Airspeed was not
reading due to the extreme slip. Thought it would depart and spin before
the nose got too high. I chickened and relaxed the stick when I felt
more buffeting and the controls started getting slack. It flew ok in a
slip with the nose at an attitude I would consider highly alarming close
to the ground. Slipping the Cirrus, the rudder would go hard over to the
right if I got close to full right rudder. Surprised me a bit the first
time it happened. Felt like I was suddenly flying directly sideways. Did
not take inordinate effort to recenter the rudder and the glider behaved
itself just fine. Should try it with the nose up sometime.

If there is one good thing about training in Schweizers, it's that one
learns to slip for glidepath control.

WB (who has also slipped Cezznas with full flaps).

[Bill D]

On Friday, August 30, 2013 10:10:53 AM UTC-6, John Galloway wrote:
> It is certainly right insofar as that was what was described in
>
> the Jonker Sailplanes presentation to the BGA conference and
>
> has also been added to the flight manual V3. As someone on
>
> the JS1 waiting list I was listening attentively and I knew that
>
> the original suspicion had been of a broken rudder cable and
>
> also that JS1 rudder cable S tubes had been modified after the
>
> accident.
>
>
>
> Has an accident investigation report been published in the US?
>
>
>
> John Galloway


NTSB Identification: CEN12LA265

[John Galloway[_1_]]

At 18:19 30 August 2013, Bill D wrote:

>NTSB Identification: CEN12LA265

Thanks Bill but that link only consists of the initial pilot's report.

[kirk.stant]

On Friday, August 30, 2013 9:45:29 AM UTC-7, WB wrote:

> If there is one good thing about training in Schweizers, it's that one
>
> learns to slip for glidepath control.
>
>
>
> WB (who has also slipped Cezznas with full flaps).

In glass, it's not the slip that is the problem - it's trying to land afterwards without using dive brakes that can be really interesting (and expensive)!

Unfortunately, that is not a problem in a Schweizer, so bad habits can (and have) transfer - and lead to broken gliders.

Kirk (who has also tried the dreaded Cezzna full flap slip)
66

[Ramy]

I find it disturbing that no follow up that I am aware off was published yet about the cause of this incident by the pilot or anyone else who knows about it. If I was flying a JS1 I would be even more disturbed. Now we all know we can't trust the NTSB to teach us anything about the cause of glider accidents, but one would hope that at least we will be sharing information among ourselves, so we don't have yet another one of those "too bad he wasn't aware of this".

Ramy

[John Galloway[_1_]]

I too would like to see a full report into the US accident but I
doubt that JS1 pilots will be at all disturbed now when they are
flying:

If the US accident was the result of the rudder cable fraying
(which clearly was a design issue) and then breaking in flight
then that should be fixed by the modification to the rudder
pedal S tube design by adding bell ends and sleeve inserts to
protect the cables (Technical Note TN.JS-010 06 July 2012).

If it was due to misinterpretation of the rudder over-locking in a
side slip then that aspect has been highlighted in the flight
manual.

John Galloway


At 07:51 31 August 2013, Ramy wrote:
>I find it disturbing that no follow up that I am aware off was
published
>ye=
>t about the cause of this incident by the pilot or anyone else
who knows
>ab=
>out it. If I was flying a JS1 I would be even more disturbed.
Now we all
>kn=
>ow we can't trust the NTSB to teach us anything about the
cause of glider
>a=
>ccidents, but one would hope that at least we will be sharing
information
>a=
>mong ourselves, so we don't have yet another one of those
"too bad he
>wasn'=
>t aware of this".
>
>Ramy
>

[Dan Marotta]

"...both rudder pedals went to the floor..."

Sounds to me like one cable broke, the rudder went hard over due to
unbalanced cable tension, and there was no way to center the rudder.
Knowing both the accident pilot and the owner of the other JS-1 which had
the failure on the ground, I believe them. And neither I, nor the factory,
nor the NTSB were in the cockpit.

I also believe that the factory fix will take care of the problem.


"John Galloway" > wrote in message
...
>I too would like to see a full report into the US accident but I
> doubt that JS1 pilots will be at all disturbed now when they are
> flying:
>
> If the US accident was the result of the rudder cable fraying
> (which clearly was a design issue) and then breaking in flight
> then that should be fixed by the modification to the rudder
> pedal S tube design by adding bell ends and sleeve inserts to
> protect the cables (Technical Note TN.JS-010 06 July 2012).
>
> If it was due to misinterpretation of the rudder over-locking in a
> side slip then that aspect has been highlighted in the flight
> manual.
>
> John Galloway
>
>
> At 07:51 31 August 2013, Ramy wrote:
>>I find it disturbing that no follow up that I am aware off was
> published
>>ye=
>>t about the cause of this incident by the pilot or anyone else
> who knows
>>ab=
>>out it. If I was flying a JS1 I would be even more disturbed.
> Now we all
>>kn=
>>ow we can't trust the NTSB to teach us anything about the
> cause of glider
>>a=
>>ccidents, but one would hope that at least we will be sharing
> information
>>a=
>>mong ourselves, so we don't have yet another one of those
> "too bad he
>>wasn'=
>>t aware of this".
>>
>>Ramy
>>
>

[[email protected]]

The right hand rudder cable on Angel Paula’s JS-1 was cut through; the rudder then went full left. There is no quick obvious way to get control of the rudder when that happens. The glider was about 3,000 ft. AGL then.

The cable was cut by the sharp end of the S tube through which the cable passes. The end of the S tube is normally flared out, or bell shaped. Some manufacturers also run a plastic tube through the S tube and have the cable routed in the plastic. The JS-1 that Angel bailed out of and a sister ship owned by Barton Tate, also at Moriarty, had S tubes with no plastic tube and no flare on the end. The end was apparently cut with some kind of rotary cutter, probably an abrasive disk and the sharp end that resulted was not dressed smooth. I have cut steel tube this way and the end is so sharp you can almost shave with it. It will cut your flesh quite easily.

That sharp end is at the bottom of the tube where the cable exits and goes forward to an anchor point on a bulkhead. Each time the rudder pedal was pressed forward the sharp end of the steel tube cut into the cable. The cable is made of many small diameter wires bundled together. The sharp end of the steel tube simply cut, over many applications of right pedal, the cable one small strand at a time. Soon there were not enough strands to withstand the tension loads and the remaining strands, probably already nicked a bit, broke under that load. The tension spring on the LH rudder pedal then pulled the rudder to full left deflection.

The rudder did not lock out nor did the cable break, it was cut. The breaking strength of stainless steel 7x19 aircraft cable is 1760 lbs, galvanized is 2,000 lbs. The forward anchor point of the cable would fail before the cable reached its breaking point. The pictures of the wreckage show the forward anchor point to be intact. The glider hit almost level, almost no forward movement; the cable did not break during impact. Pictures do show the cut cable.

Jonkers so much admitted the correctness of this description when they sent Barton Tate new rudder pedals with a plastic tube in the S tube. After Angel’s accident Barton sat in his glider and cycled the rudder pedals from stop to stop, his already frayed cable was cut through even further.
This was a sobering moment for Barton.

I have designed and built and flown a rudder pedal assembly, Genesis prototype and production units, I know the critical design points. Those pedals have proven to be trouble free, they have a flared end and a plastic tube. I have pictures of Angle’s cut cable and Barton’s almost severed cable. I have felt the sharp end of the S tube. There is no other scenario that is viable.

Robert Mudd
Composite Aircraft Repair LLC
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

[son_of_flubber]

On Saturday, August 31, 2013 2:46:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:

> The cable was cut by the sharp end of the S tube through which the cable passes.
..
..
..
The [ed. S-tube] end was apparently cut with some kind of rotary cutter, probably an abrasive disk and the sharp end that resulted was not dressed smooth. <

The sheer incompetence and/or disregard for human life that this implies is appalling.

[[email protected]]

Excellent explanation, Robert. Thanks for clarifying this. Fred

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
"kirk.stant" > wrote:

> On Friday, August 30, 2013 9:45:29 AM UTC-7, WB wrote:
>
> > If there is one good thing about training in Schweizers, it's that one
> >
> > learns to slip for glidepath control.
> >
> >
> >
> > WB (who has also slipped Cezznas with full flaps).
>
> In glass, it's not the slip that is the problem - it's trying to land
> afterwards without using dive brakes that can be really interesting (and
> expensive)!
>
> Unfortunately, that is not a problem in a Schweizer, so bad habits can (and
> have) transfer - and lead to broken gliders.
>
> Kirk (who has also tried the dreaded Cezzna full flap slip)
> 66

Yeah, I definitely had to augment my Schweizer training with some 2-seat
glass time. Most of my 2-seat glass time has been in Grob trucks. Great
for initial teaching of energy management in the pattern.

The instructor who does my flight review always wants to see a
no-divebrake pattern and landing. I have done no divebrake landings in
my 301. Slip as low as I dare and very careful airspeed control. Still,
the float is very long. If I had to out-land without divebrakes (very
unlikely in my 301 as it has a tail chute as a backup) and the field was
too short, I'd just have to land in a slip as slowly as possible and
ride out the ground loop.

[Ramy]

I agree. This makes me wonder what else was overlooked.

Ramy

[Soartech]

>Jonkers so much admitted the correctness of this description when they sent >Barton Tate new rudder pedals with a plastic tube in the S tube.

So did Jonkers compensate him for the loss of his very expensive glider or is Angel suing them to get it back? Nice that he survived.

[[email protected]]

Uncle Fuzzy: Instead of just wondering about the integrity of the 30+ year old cables why not put a new set in? It's not that complicated or expensive a job. With lots of gliders there is a calendar or flight hour limit on the cables anyways.

I recall Derek Piggott writing that the DG-100 rudder locks over and that the Janus does too so a Janus flight was a good way of experiencing the effect with an instructor if you had purchased or were considering purchasing a 100.

My 15B slips very steeply and effectively and behaves well in a full slip but the incident with the JS-1 also had me wondering about what would happen if a cable broke. When I disconnected the left cable at the turnbuckle aft of the pedals in the process of replacing my cables I noticed that the rudder was only deflected about ten degrees by the spring on the side that was still hooked up. Of course this doesn't tell me what it would do with a 50 knot or more airflow over it. Since I frequently fly barefoot I suppose I could do a test in flight by simply grabbing one pedal with my toes and pulling it backwards putting slack in the cable while not touching the other pedal.

[Uncle Fuzzy[_2_]]

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 1:17:24 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Uncle Fuzzy: Instead of just wondering about the integrity of the 30+ year old cables why not put a new set in? It's not that complicated or expensive a job. With lots of gliders there is a calendar or flight hour limit on the cables anyways.
>
>
>
> I recall Derek Piggott writing that the DG-100 rudder locks over and that the Janus does too so a Janus flight was a good way of experiencing the effect with an instructor if you had purchased or were considering purchasing a 100.
>
>
>
> My 15B slips very steeply and effectively and behaves well in a full slip but the incident with the JS-1 also had me wondering about what would happen if a cable broke. When I disconnected the left cable at the turnbuckle aft of the pedals in the process of replacing my cables I noticed that the rudder was only deflected about ten degrees by the spring on the side that was still hooked up. Of course this doesn't tell me what it would do with a 50 knot or more airflow over it. Since I frequently fly barefoot I suppose I could do a test in flight by simply grabbing one pedal with my toes and pulling it backwards putting slack in the cable while not touching the other pedal.

The cables are fine. I just like to 'what if' when I have the time, and this was one of those times. I found I can make it go generally where I want, with or without rudder input, with or without aileron input, but I do need ONE of them. Kinda' OBE now that my only 'rating' is "Ballast" (maybe 'honorable ballast'

[Dan Marotta]

<snip>...Since I frequently fly barefoot ...

Not in New Mexico, I'd wager!


> wrote in message
...
Uncle Fuzzy: Instead of just wondering about the integrity of the 30+ year
old cables why not put a new set in? It's not that complicated or expensive
a job. With lots of gliders there is a calendar or flight hour limit on the
cables anyways.

I recall Derek Piggott writing that the DG-100 rudder locks over and that
the Janus does too so a Janus flight was a good way of experiencing the
effect with an instructor if you had purchased or were considering
purchasing a 100.

My 15B slips very steeply and effectively and behaves well in a full slip
but the incident with the JS-1 also had me wondering about what would happen
if a cable broke. When I disconnected the left cable at the turnbuckle aft
of the pedals in the process of replacing my cables I noticed that the
rudder was only deflected about ten degrees by the spring on the side that
was still hooked up. Of course this doesn't tell me what it would do with a
50 knot or more airflow over it. Since I frequently fly barefoot I suppose I
could do a test in flight by simply grabbing one pedal with my toes and
pulling it backwards putting slack in the cable while not touching the other
pedal.

[[email protected]]

"Not in New Mexico I wager"

You got that right! Where I fly the airfield is 128 ft. ASL, we spend a lot of time at or below ridge heights of 4000-6000 feet ASL and to go above 12,500 you need permission from ATC - which is seldom granted. The cockpit is usually a comfortable shirtsleeve temperature - except during the summer on a day with weak lift where you end up sweating buckets as you scratch away at low speed below 3000 for the whole flight.

[Oscar[_2_]]

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 6:11:15 PM UTC+2, Ramy wrote:
> I agree. This makes me wonder what else was overlooked.
>
>
>
> Ramy

That's quite a wild statement! Maybe you want to think that through?

[Dan Marotta]

But you don't have cacti and rattle snakes to worry about!


> wrote in message
...
"Not in New Mexico I wager"

You got that right! Where I fly the airfield is 128 ft. ASL, we spend a lot
of time at or below ridge heights of 4000-6000 feet ASL and to go above
12,500 you need permission from ATC - which is seldom granted. The cockpit
is usually a comfortable shirtsleeve temperature - except during the summer
on a day with weak lift where you end up sweating buckets as you scratch
away at low speed below 3000 for the whole flight.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:54:47 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> <snip>...Since I frequently fly barefoot ...
>
>
>
> Not in New Mexico, I'd wager!
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> Uncle Fuzzy: Instead of just wondering about the integrity of the 30+ year
>
> old cables why not put a new set in? It's not that complicated or expensive
>
> a job. With lots of gliders there is a calendar or flight hour limit on the
>
> cables anyways.
>
>
>
> I recall Derek Piggott writing that the DG-100 rudder locks over and that
>
> the Janus does too so a Janus flight was a good way of experiencing the
>
> effect with an instructor if you had purchased or were considering
>
> purchasing a 100.
>
>
>
> My 15B slips very steeply and effectively and behaves well in a full slip
>
> but the incident with the JS-1 also had me wondering about what would happen
>
> if a cable broke. When I disconnected the left cable at the turnbuckle aft
>
> of the pedals in the process of replacing my cables I noticed that the
>
> rudder was only deflected about ten degrees by the spring on the side that
>
> was still hooked up. Of course this doesn't tell me what it would do with a
>
> 50 knot or more airflow over it. Since I frequently fly barefoot I suppose I
>
> could do a test in flight by simply grabbing one pedal with my toes and
>
> pulling it backwards putting slack in the cable while not touching the other
>
> pedal.

No barefooting at our glider port in Colorado, nor sandals. The little ball cactus are buggers and it's not rare to have someone hooking up the CG hook during winch launching kneel on one. They hide in the buffalo grass. It's been about five years since a visiting CAP member managed to get bit by a rattler, but he was tempting fate also.

Frank Whiteley

[son_of_flubber]

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 9:06:17 PM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:

> No barefooting at our glider port in Colorado, nor sandals. The little ball cactus are buggers and it's not rare to have someone hooking up the CG hook during winch launching kneel on one. They hide in the buffalo grass. It's been about five years since a visiting CAP member managed to get bit by a rattler, but he was tempting fate also.
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>
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> Frank Whiteley

Yikes. Fires, cacti, and rattlesnakes. I guess the lift is worth it.

[[email protected]]

Well, just for the hell of it I tried pulling aft on one rudder pedal while not touching the other when in flight. On my 15B at least the pedal springs don't deflect the rudder much at all at least at around 45 knots.

It was a day with strong lift to 4000 on one mountain and not much else anywhere else so in lieu of going anywhere I satisfied my curiosity about the rudder, did a number of spins and stalls etc. and finished up with a no airbrake landing - just in case I ever buy that ASW-12 I've always dreamed of:-)

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
wrote:

and finished up with a no
> airbrake landing - just in case I ever buy that ASW-12 I've always dreamed
> of:-)



The ASW-12: Now that's a real man's glider!