Minden Airstrip Review

[[email protected]]

As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).

I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.

I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list

Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)

If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.

Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).

One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!

Regards,

Frank (TA)

[[email protected]]

Black Rock City Municipal Airport:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.762333,-119.216273&spn=0.004778,0.009645&t=h&z=17

[jfitch]

On Friday, September 20, 2013 2:28:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).
>
>
>
> I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.
>
>
>
> I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at
>
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list
>
>
>
> Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)
>
>
>
> If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.
>
>
>
> Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).
>
>
>
> One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Frank (TA)

When Black Rock is open (during Burning Man) if you land there you will have to pay the landing fee, reportedly $250+. The rest of the time, the Black Rock desert is landable, even by the Space Shuttle. You may die of exposure walking out though.

Spaulding is an OK airport, many have landed there. The others that you question I would not consider, in most cases there are suitable alternatives nearby. Keeping in mind that Out There, if you are down to 8 or 9K feet MSL, while you are still 4 - 5K feet AGL, you are struggling and looking for a landing site. Any reasonable day you should be working between 12 and 18.

[Dan Marotta]

Sorry to contradict in light of your unfortunate experience at Region 9, but
we routinely look down at the Lincoln Station airstrip. Renny Rozzoni drove
out there after your accident and took several pictures from the road and
from the strip. If I still had them, I'd post links. Maybe someone else
will.


> wrote in message
...
As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow
to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of
all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find
that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always
some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal
waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport
(again).

I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint
database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I
found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is
nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say
'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the
surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to
tell from the GE imagery.

I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem
airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the
photo sets on my Google drive at

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list

Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation
and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with
the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third
photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway
widthh)

If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any
new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so
all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files
over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.

Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database
as appropriate ;-).

One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City'
which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The
airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but
the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the
city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of
the festival) - neat!

Regards,

Frank (TA)

[Ralph Jones[_3_]]

On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 16:08:14 -0700 (PDT), jfitch >
wrote:
[snip]

>
>When Black Rock is open (during Burning Man) if you land there you will have to pay the landing fee, reportedly $250+.

I thought everything was barter at Burning Man.

[jfitch]

On Friday, September 20, 2013 6:55:09 PM UTC-7, Ralph Jones wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 16:08:14 -0700 (PDT), jfitch
>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> >
>
> >When Black Rock is open (during Burning Man) if you land there you will have to pay the landing fee, reportedly $250+.
>
>
>
> I thought everything was barter at Burning Man.

Once you get in, maybe. To get in, no barter, only cash. A few years ago I flew over it, thought about landing there to walk around (would have been an easy relaunch with the motor glider). The price put me off the idea.

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

On Friday, September 20, 2013 2:28:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).
>
>
>
> I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.
>
>
>
> I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at
>
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list
>
>
>
> Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)
>
>
>
> If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.
>
>
>
> Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).
>
>
>
> One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Frank (TA)

Minden data base, like many others contain many old (questionable) entries. We update the new, but nobody removes any of the old stuff. I fly the place by selecting the best airport in each valley and then selecting it in the alternates page on my SN-10. If I can't make it over the Pine nuts, my alternate is back to Minden. In the Topaz Valley, I'm putting it on Topaz International (dirt strip on northern end). Same thing in the Palameno Valley, there are several marginal strips shown, but I just use Air Sailing if I get in trouble up there.
Hope this helps, looking forward to your accident review,
JJ

[Ramy]

The Truckee database covers the exact same area and is much more current. It is maintained by Sergio and myself. Last update was earlier this year. Still it may have outdated data, but at least anything that was brought to our attention was corrected. I recommend anyone flying from Reno area to use the Truckee database. However as others pointed out, if you can't get high enough (over 12K) it is not worth trying to go XC here. If you are at the normal altitude band, there are only few airports we occasionaly land at: Carson, Rosachi, topaz international, Hilton ranch, swee****er, alpine county, Bridgeport, Mamooth, Lee Vining, Bishop, Hawthorn, Yerrington, Mina, gabbs, Austin, Flanigan, Susanville, Sierraville, Nervino.
These are the ones that comes to mind. I may have missed few. You probably don't need to consider more than that.

Ramy

[Ramy]

Forgot to mention that I looked at your list and almost everything you listed I never considered as landable places (although they may be) other than Spaulding and both soldier meadows. The whole black rock dry lake is landable but we normally land as close to Gerlach as possible (should be on Truckee database). I dont think you would need to consider any of the others in any day worth flying XC.

Ramy

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 8:51:07 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> Carson, Rosachi, topaz international, Hilton ranch, swee****er, alpine county, Bridgeport,
> Mamooth, Lee Vining, Bishop, Hawthorn, Yerrington, Mina, gabbs, Austin, Flanigan,
> Susanville, Sierraville, Nervino.

I'd add Farias Wheel (been there, done that, in a Duo), Tiger Field, Silver Springs, and Rabbit Dry Lake (if actually dry) to that list. There are other places where 15M or less gliders can safely land (Herlong comes to mind, if it's still there). While I have managed to land safely in a couple of backyard strips, if one is resorting to those sorts of options, it's because they're doing it wrong...

Marc

[Mike I Green]

On 9/21/2013 8:51 AM, Ramy wrote:
> The Truckee database covers the exact same area and is much more current. It is maintained by Sergio and myself. Last update was earlier this year. Still it may have outdated data, but at least anything that was brought to our attention was corrected. I recommend anyone flying from Reno area to use the Truckee database. However as others pointed out, if you can't get high enough (over 12K) it is not worth trying to go XC here. If you are at the normal altitude band, there are only few airports we occasionaly land at: Carson, Rosachi, topaz international, Hilton ranch, swee****er, alpine county, Bridgeport, Mamooth, Lee Vining, Bishop, Hawthorn, Yerrington, Mina, gabbs, Austin, Flanigan, Susanville, Sierraville, Nervino.
> These are the ones that comes to mind. I may have missed few. You probably don't need to consider more than that.
>
> Ramy
>
Don't know a Flanigan Airport. Do know a Flanigan Turnpoint and a
Flanigan Dry Lake, which are several miles apart. Flanigan Dry Lake may
or may not be land-able depending on the season. Flanigan Turnpoint is
not land-able.

--
Mike I Green

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 12:41:17 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> Forgot to mention that I looked at your list and almost everything you listed I never considered as landable places (although they may be) other than Spaulding and both soldier meadows. The whole black rock dry lake is landable but we normally land as close to Gerlach as possible (should be on Truckee database). I dont think you would need to consider any of the others in any day worth flying XC.
>
>
>
> Ramy

Ramy,

Have you guys considered coding all these marginal strips as 'outlanding' (type 3 in .CUP files, '(L)andable in .DAT files) rather than as an airport? My main intent in doing the review is to NOT aim at a marginal/non-existent airstrip, and absent a different appearance on my PDA, as a newcomer I won't know the difference. Just a thought, but it might help us newcomers ;-)

In the meantime, I'll probably modify the standard database to remove/re-code for my personal use.

Frank (TA)

[Bill D]

On Friday, September 20, 2013 3:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).
>
>
>
> I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.
>
>
>
> I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at
>
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list
>
>
>
> Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)
>
>
>
> If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.
>
>
>
> Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).
>
>
>
> One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Frank (TA)


Frank, many states have a "back country airstrip" associations which have documented many remote and rarely used strips with aerial and ground photos both as well as pilot reports. While they don't cover every strip, I've found these useful.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:59:05 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
> On Friday, September 20, 2013 3:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>
> > As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Frank (TA)
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank, many states have a "back country airstrip" associations which have documented many remote and rarely used strips with aerial and ground photos both as well as pilot reports. While they don't cover every strip, I've found these useful.

Bill,

Good point, but they are much more likely to be tail-dragger oriented and not too worried about usable width. What a Maul or a 180 would consider perfectly acceptable might not work too well for an 18m glider ;-).

Frank (TA)

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 10:02:55 AM UTC-4, JJ Sinclair wrote:
> On Friday, September 20, 2013 2:28:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>
> > As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Frank (TA)
>
>
>
> Minden data base, like many others contain many old (questionable) entries. We update the new, but nobody removes any of the old stuff. I fly the place by selecting the best airport in each valley and then selecting it in the alternates page on my SN-10. If I can't make it over the Pine nuts, my alternate is back to Minden. In the Topaz Valley, I'm putting it on Topaz International (dirt strip on northern end). Same thing in the Palameno Valley, there are several marginal strips shown, but I just use Air Sailing if I get in trouble up there.
>
> Hope this helps, looking forward to your accident review,
>
> JJ

JJ,

Thanks for the information. BTW, I posted a complete accident review on Soaring
Cafe back in June ;-).

Frank (TA)

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 11:51:07 AM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
> The Truckee database covers the exact same area and is much more current. It is maintained by Sergio and myself. Last update was earlier this year. Still it may have outdated data, but at least anything that was brought to our attention was corrected. I recommend anyone flying from Reno area to use the Truckee database. However as others pointed out, if you can't get high enough (over 12K) it is not worth trying to go XC here. If you are at the normal altitude band, there are only few airports we occasionaly land at: Carson, Rosachi, topaz international, Hilton ranch, swee****er, alpine county, Bridgeport, Mamooth, Lee Vining, Bishop, Hawthorn, Yerrington, Mina, gabbs, Austin, Flanigan, Susanville, Sierraville, Nervino.
>
> These are the ones that comes to mind. I may have missed few. You probably don't need to consider more than that.
>
>
>
> Ramy

Ramy,

Thanks for taking the time to list out the most commonly used airports. I agree that all these aiports, with the exception of Flanigan (no airport found, waypoint is coded as non-landable) appear imminently landable even for 18m. Nervino is called 'Beckworth' in the Minden database, but 'Nervino' in AirNav and the FAA database. Don't know why the Minden database renamed it, but ... ;-).

Are you referring to the dry lake bed near Flanigan, and if so, can you comment on what parts of the year it is usable?

TIA,

Frank (TA)

[Bill D]

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 8:49:19 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:59:05 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
>
> > On Friday, September 20, 2013 3:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Regards,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Frank (TA)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Frank, many states have a "back country airstrip" associations which have documented many remote and rarely used strips with aerial and ground photos both as well as pilot reports. While they don't cover every strip, I've found these useful.
>
>
>
> Bill,
>
>
>
> Good point, but they are much more likely to be tail-dragger oriented and not too worried about usable width. What a Maul or a 180 would consider perfectly acceptable might not work too well for an 18m glider ;-).
>
>
>
> Frank (TA)

Of course you're right, some are completely unusable for gliders even though a tail dragger can land there. OTOH, some listings have runway width dimensions and excellent photos which give a glider pilot a pretty good idea what the field is like. The only way to know for sure is a "boots on the ground" reconnaissance of the strip. If anyone does that, please put a report on-line somewhere so other pilots can be informed.

[Ramy]

Frank, I believe those are coded better in the Truckee database. We usually do as you suggested and mark the more questionable ones with L. Please review the Truckee database and let me know if otherwise.
As for Flanigan dry lake, it is landable during most summers unless it was a real wet year. It is also a short aero retrieve from Airsailing.

Ramy

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

On Friday, September 20, 2013 2:28:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).
>
>
>
> I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.
>
>
>
> I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at
>
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list
>
>
>
> Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)
>
>
>
> If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.
>
>
>
> Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).
>
>
>
> One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Frank (TA)

I'm afraid my fingerprints are on the Minden data base. Names like Flying Mouse, Flying-M and Norvino were confusing and didn't clearly show the location. So, old JJ made them Hilton, Topaz and Beckworth.
Contest are regularly held at 3 locations around Reno and each have their own turnpoints. While other data bases may contain good info about landable spots, REMEMBER you must only use the turnpoints listed in the Minden data base when flying a contest at Minden. A few years back, a contestant claimed a turnpoint from Truckee when flying the Minden regionals................didn't have a good outcome.
Cheers,
JJ

[Ramy]

Good point JJ. Ideally we should have just one database for the whole Great Basin which will have all the turnpoints for all locations and contests. One single source of truth. But I think most of the "airstrips" in Frank's list should be removed from the Minden database. Is there really a strip in "Baily Ranch" which I believe is below Mt Rose? I never seen any.

Ramy

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:16:58 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> Good point JJ. Ideally we should have just one database for the whole Great Basin which will have all the turnpoints for all locations and contests. One single source of truth. But I think most of the "airstrips" in Frank's list should be removed from the Minden database. Is there really a strip in "Baily Ranch" which I believe is below Mt Rose? I never seen any.
>
>
>
> Ramy

I tried to get Air Sailing, Truckee and Minden to adopt a single turnpoint list a few years back and found that trying to get glider pilots to agree on anything was like herding cats!
JJ

[Dan Marotta]

All these turnpoint databases...

In my Streak I use United States.cup file for my turnpoints. I see that I
also have moriarty_ASC.cup, morirt1b.cup, and moriarC.cup. It seems that
every time there's a contest at Moriarty, a new turn point file appears.
I've tried using multiple TP files and find that the lat/long positions are
not always the same, displaying multiple closely spaced turn points of the
same name, so you can't reliably choose from the map.

It would appear, then, that, should I go to one of the soaring sites in NV,
I should only use the local turn point file used by the local pilots.


"JJ Sinclair" > wrote in message
...
On Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:16:58 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> Good point JJ. Ideally we should have just one database for the whole
> Great Basin which will have all the turnpoints for all locations and
> contests. One single source of truth. But I think most of the "airstrips"
> in Frank's list should be removed from the Minden database. Is there
> really a strip in "Baily Ranch" which I believe is below Mt Rose? I never
> seen any.
>
>
>
> Ramy

I tried to get Air Sailing, Truckee and Minden to adopt a single turnpoint
list a few years back and found that trying to get glider pilots to agree on
anything was like herding cats!
JJ

[jfitch]

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:16:58 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> Good point JJ. Ideally we should have just one database for the whole Great Basin which will have all the turnpoints for all locations and contests. One single source of truth. But I think most of the "airstrips" in Frank's list should be removed from the Minden database. Is there really a strip in "Baily Ranch" which I believe is below Mt Rose? I never seen any.
>
>
>
> Ramy

Ramy,

There is, it can be seen if you are close enough (usually this happens on your retrieve from Carson :)). Look here:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.281998,-119.826722&spn=0.009799,0.014076&t=h&z=16

It's grass in the middle of grass (the farmers there grow turf primarily I think. I haven't walked it but it looks landable from the air. I don't know why you would go there rather than Carson though. Even a 1-26 could fall off Incline and hit Carson.

[[email protected]]

I lent my beach cruiser bike to my best friend so she would have something to ride around at Burning Man two years ago. The process of exorcising that horrible playa dust from the bike put a stop to any ideas I may have had about ever taking any mechanical device of my own into that environment again. It was a nightmare - and it's just a single-speed coaster-brake bike.

[JS]

I believe Ramy has a copy of my SW database which was built from Tehachapi, California City, Warner Springs, Tonopah, Ely, Avenal, Hollister and Minden databases. It has been added to and subtracted from over the years. Many people have helped update it, and VFRMap, AirNav and even Google Earth has been useful.
Approximate scope: Jacumba to Burns - Idaho Falls and Santa Barbara to Hanksville - Estrella. Yet to add the San Joaquin and Sacramento Valleys N of the Hollister - Merced line, associated coastal ranges and Sierra foothills.
Perhaps competition pilots wouldn't want to sort through 900-plus waypoints. That many waypoints with longish names won't fit in old computers either.

[gen]

I camped at Black Rock City airport (FAA airport code: 88NV) for the whole Burning Man event period this year.

The landing fee was $20 this year, as long as you stay at the airport and do not enter the Burning Man event area (the airport is half mile away from the Burning Man event area). If you want to enter the Burning Man event area, then you need a ticket which has to be purchased online in advance but not sold onsite. This year's ticket was $380. But again, ticket is not sold onsite, so no amount of money will get you in Burning Man event if you arrive without a ticket.

As you said, the surface condition of 88NV and surrounding area is very good in general. In the past, Citation X jet landed on 88NV multiple times.

However, 88NV is very busy during Burning Man event. There were 30+ airplanes and helicopters at the airport at any time, and quite a few of them were giving rides to passengers over and around the city constantly during daytime. There were two charter flight companies operating flights to and from Reno. All aircrafts follow defined pattern to avoid collision in this crowded airspace. FAA officers were present to monitor any unsafe activities. If you plan to fly near Burning Man site during the event, I strongly recommend reading information on the following website thoroughly beforehand.

http://www.portofentry.org

If you land, expect no cell phone coverage at the airport or in Black Rock City. The airport had wifi but it was very sporadic.

The playa dust is alkali and corrodes metal when combined with moisture. If you land anywhere on the desert, I recommend washing your glider very carefully especially around the landing gear. Some told me that it's better to spray vinegar first to neutralize alkali, then wash.

In conclusion, I believe it's best to stay away from 88NV as much as possible. As Ramy said, landing near Gerlach is probably a much, much better option. You will have much less problem with the dust there too because it is likely that the ground surface is not disturbed since the last rain and still is packed. Note that there are traffic around 88NV a few weeks before and after the event because hundreds of workers are on the site to build and clean up the city. The cleaning is still happening as of today.

FWIW, there is no bartering at Burning Man. Everything is given away for free without expectation of gaining anything in return.

-Gen


On Friday, September 20, 2013 4:08:14 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
> On Friday, September 20, 2013 2:28:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>
> > As part of my new 12-step crash recovery program, I have taken a sacred vow to never go to a new soaring site without a thorough Google Earth review of all airports/airstrips in the published site waypoint database. When I find that airports in the database aren't there anymore (and there are always some - think Lincoln Station at Moriarty) - I manually modify my personal waypoint database so that I don't try to fly to a non-existent airport (again).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have completed my preliminary review of the current Minden waypoint database, and although I only found a few missing/abandoned airstrips, I found that a LOT of them are problematic - usually due to a runway that is nominally much too narrow for an 18 (or even a 15) meter glider. I say 'nominally' because such an airstrip might be more than adequate if the surrounding sagebrush or other vegetation is low enough - but that's hard to tell from the GE imagery.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have placed photo sets (usually 2 but sometimes 3 photos) of each problem airstrip, along with a Word document containing captioned versions of the photo sets on my Google drive at
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwILkoZHUvTMZ3lmRDJ0cmhKVlE&usp=sharing#list
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Each photo set contains an overview shot showing the airstrip's orientation and distance from Minden, along with a closeup of the airstrip itself, with the runway width shown via the GE 'ruler' tool. Some sets have a third photo showing a nearby alternate (usually a real airport with decent runway widthh)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If anyone has additional information about any of these airstrips (or any new ones discovered that aren't in the database yet), please post it here so all Minden-bound pilots can benefit. If someone wants to copy these files over to the Minden Soaring Club site, that's fine by me too.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hopefully the contest organizers will consider modifications to the database as appropriate ;-).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > One last note. One of the airstrips in the database is 'Black Rock City' which turns out to be the site of the annual 'Burning Man' festival. The airstrip itself is nowhere to be found (or at least I couldn't see it), but the GE image was coincidentally taken during the festival period when the city was actually there (in theory, everything is carted away at the end of the festival) - neat!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Frank (TA)
>
>
>
> When Black Rock is open (during Burning Man) if you land there you will have to pay the landing fee, reportedly $250+. The rest of the time, the Black Rock desert is landable, even by the Space Shuttle. You may die of exposure walking out though.
>
>
>
> Spaulding is an OK airport, many have landed there. The others that you question I would not consider, in most cases there are suitable alternatives nearby. Keeping in mind that Out There, if you are down to 8 or 9K feet MSL, while you are still 4 - 5K feet AGL, you are struggling and looking for a landing site. Any reasonable day you should be working between 12 and 18.

[Rob Brown[_2_]]

On 2013-09-20, jfitch > wrote:
>
> ... the Black Rock desert is landable, even by the Space Shuttle. You may die
> of exposure walking out though.

I never thought of that. Around here, "die of exposure" means "freeze
to death".


--

Rob Brown

[[email protected]]

On Friday, September 20, 2013 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
> On Friday, September 20, 2013 6:55:09 PM UTC-7, Ralph Jones wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 16:08:14 -0700 (PDT), jfitch
>
> >
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > [snip]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >When Black Rock is open (during Burning Man) if you land there you will have to pay the landing fee, reportedly $250+.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I thought everything was barter at Burning Man.
>
>
>
> Once you get in, maybe. To get in, no barter, only cash. A few years ago I flew over it, thought about landing there to walk around (would have been an easy relaunch with the motor glider). The price put me off the idea.

One is able to land for free at BRCMA but you cannot enter the gate without a ticket. Tickets are no longer available at the gate as in years past. Burning Man is a gifting economy, not barter. Trading and monetary deals are frowned upon once inside the gate. It is not some 'hippie' event.