LX7007 & "LX Compass module" - wind calc

[Pam Howarth]

Does anyone have first hand experience of the LX7007 coupled to the "LX
Compass module"? Specifically at how good it is at calculating the wind
direction/speed?
By itself the LX7007 is less than convincing whilst the Oudie is quite
hopeless. As LX want £480 just for the "Compass module" I thought some
first hand feedback would be helpful?
The "money no object" solution seems to be the Butterfly vario, but again
there seems to be little pilot feedback on the web.

[Charlie Papa[_2_]]

On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:59:33 PM UTC-4, Pam Howarth wrote:
> Does anyone have first hand experience of the LX7007 coupled to the "LX
>
> Compass module"? Specifically at how good it is at calculating the wind
>
> direction/speed?
>
> By itself the LX7007 is less than convincing whilst the Oudie is quite
>
> hopeless. As LX want £480 just for the "Compass module" I thought some
>
> first hand feedback would be helpful?
>
> The "money no object" solution seems to be the Butterfly vario, but again
>
> there seems to be little pilot feedback on the web.

The LX 7007 is the most cogent argument I have encountered against gun control, - although the collateral damage to the glider might be a balancing argument for elniency.

But, if the compass modue functions as well as my 'Most Reliable Partner in Glidng" flight computer did, find another solution. For me, it was and is the LX 8080.

It's fantastic. And, if I were to consider additional options, I would have faith they would work.

[Dan Marotta]

Whatever happened to what we old-timers used to call the "whiskey compass"?
Why would you have to buy a compass module for your flight computer when you
(should) have a simple, reliable, cheap magnetic compass on the panel?

And, assuming you have a GPS, doesn't ground track work well enough? Do you
really need magnetic heading? Don't forget to subtract variation
(declination for mon-military types). Oh, that's probably add variation if
you're in the eastern half of the world.


"Charlie Papa" > wrote in message
...
On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:59:33 PM UTC-4, Pam Howarth wrote:
> Does anyone have first hand experience of the LX7007 coupled to the "LX
>
> Compass module"? Specifically at how good it is at calculating the wind
>
> direction/speed?
>
> By itself the LX7007 is less than convincing whilst the Oudie is quite
>
> hopeless. As LX want £480 just for the "Compass module" I thought some
>
> first hand feedback would be helpful?
>
> The "money no object" solution seems to be the Butterfly vario, but again
>
> there seems to be little pilot feedback on the web.

The LX 7007 is the most cogent argument I have encountered against gun
control, - although the collateral damage to the glider might be a balancing
argument for elniency.

But, if the compass modue functions as well as my 'Most Reliable Partner in
Glidng" flight computer did, find another solution. For me, it was and is
the LX 8080.

It's fantastic. And, if I were to consider additional options, I would have
faith they would work.

[Luke Szczepaniak]

The compass module enables legacy LX Navigation devices to calculate
wind without having to circle. Different manufacturers use different
algorithms and hardware to come up with this data so not all need a
compass module.

Cheers,
Luke Szczepaniak

On 10/15/2013 12:24 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Whatever happened to what we old-timers used to call the "whiskey
> compass"? Why would you have to buy a compass module for your flight
> computer when you (should) have a simple, reliable, cheap magnetic
> compass on the panel?
>
> And, assuming you have a GPS, doesn't ground track work well enough? Do
> you really need magnetic heading? Don't forget to subtract variation
> (declination for mon-military types). Oh, that's probably add variation
> if you're in the eastern half of the world.
>
>
> "Charlie Papa" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:59:33 PM UTC-4, Pam Howarth wrote:
>> Does anyone have first hand experience of the LX7007 coupled to the "LX
>>
>> Compass module"? Specifically at how good it is at calculating the wind
>>
>> direction/speed?
>>
>> By itself the LX7007 is less than convincing whilst the Oudie is quite
>>
>> hopeless. As LX want £480 just for the "Compass module" I thought some
>>
>> first hand feedback would be helpful?
>>
>> The "money no object" solution seems to be the Butterfly vario, but again
>>
>> there seems to be little pilot feedback on the web.
>
> The LX 7007 is the most cogent argument I have encountered against gun
> control, - although the collateral damage to the glider might be a
> balancing argument for elniency.
>
> But, if the compass modue functions as well as my 'Most Reliable Partner
> in Glidng" flight computer did, find another solution. For me, it was
> and is the LX 8080.
>
> It's fantastic. And, if I were to consider additional options, I would
> have faith they would work.

[Pam Howarth]

Hmm...the whiskey (whisky) compass eh? Next you'll be saying why have a
flight director at all when a couple of pith balls worked so well? The
LX7007 requires you to fly a couple (or more) of nice concentric circles
before it can calculate the wind; few thermals, especially in the
mountains, seem to be nice round columns. You may also have noticed that
the whiskey compass (and yes I do have one) is pretty useless when banked
over in a thermal?
Real wind information is available (Butterfly Vario, Clearnav etc) and I
think it is valuable but it comes with a multi thousand Euro price tag so
upgrading my "old" (and perhaps not very reliable) technology is an
option.
Your "declination" & "variation" comments are a joke, yes?

At 16:24 15 October 2013, Dan Marotta wrote:
>Whatever happened to what we old-timers used to call the "whiskey
compass"?
>
>Why would you have to buy a compass module for your flight computer when
>you
>(should) have a simple, reliable, cheap magnetic compass on the panel?
>
>And, assuming you have a GPS, doesn't ground track work well enough? Do
>you
>really need magnetic heading? Don't forget to subtract variation
>(declination for mon-military types). Oh, that's probably add variation
if
>
>you're in the eastern half of the world.
>
>
>"Charlie Papa" wrote in message
...
>On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:59:33 PM UTC-4, Pam Howarth wrote:
>> Does anyone have first hand experience of the LX7007 coupled to the "LX
>>
>> Compass module"? Specifically at how good it is at calculating the wind
>>
>> direction/speed?
>>
>> By itself the LX7007 is less than convincing whilst the Oudie is quite
>>
>> hopeless. As LX want �480 just for the "Compass module" I thought
some
>>
>> first hand feedback would be helpful?
>>
>> The "money no object" solution seems to be the Butterfly vario, but
again
>>
>> there seems to be little pilot feedback on the web.
>
>The LX 7007 is the most cogent argument I have encountered against gun
>control, - although the collateral damage to the glider might be a
>balancing
>argument for elniency.
>
>But, if the compass modue functions as well as my 'Most Reliable Partner
in
>
>Glidng" flight computer did, find another solution. For me, it was and is

>the LX 8080.
>
>It's fantastic. And, if I were to consider additional options, I would
>have
>faith they would work.
>
>

[Peter Purdie[_3_]]

At 18:42 15 October 2013, Pam Howarth wrote:
>
>(snip)
>Real wind information is available (Butterfly Vario, Clearnav >etc) and I
think it is valuable but it comes with a multi >thousand Euro price tag so
upgrading my "old" (and >perhaps not very reliable) technology is not an
>option.
>(/snip)

I haven't looked at Butterfly pricing, but the Clearnav vario (with instant
accurate wind and nav to home base) is only multi thousand Euro if the
multiplication factor is less than one. And (by user reports) is the best
vario on the market bar none.

[jfitch]

On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:14:32 PM UTC-4, pete purdie wrote:
> At 18:42 15 October 2013, Pam Howarth wrote:
>
> >
>
> >(snip)
>
> >Real wind information is available (Butterfly Vario, Clearnav >etc) and I
>
> think it is valuable but it comes with a multi >thousand Euro price tag so
>
> upgrading my "old" (and >perhaps not very reliable) technology is not an
>
> >option.
>
> >(/snip)
>
>
>
> I haven't looked at Butterfly pricing, but the Clearnav vario (with instant
>
> accurate wind and nav to home base) is only multi thousand Euro if the
>
> multiplication factor is less than one. And (by user reports) is the best
>
> vario on the market bar none.

' And (by user reports) is the best vario on the market bar none.'

That seems like a long stretch. Do you work for them?

The latest generation varios from Clearnav, LX, and Butterfly seem pretty comparable as a vario, the Butterfly has many more features than the others beyond the vario (and a price that reflects the features). I have not experienced how the others perform, but the Butterfly provides instantaneous wind (and I mean "instantaneous") and seems quite accurate.

[Dan Marotta]

I asked Steve Hill at Moriarty airport today and he told me that it was
useful for determining wind during essentially straight flight, as in ridge
or wave soaring. Luke also sent me a nice email with the same explanation
so I now understand.

Personally, I don't need to know the wind direction/speed when I can simply
change heading to achieve the effect I want. Also, I wouldn't know how to
use it efficiently in real time. As an Air Force student pilot I learned to
use the rusty, trusty E-6b computer to graphically calculate crab angles for
450 KTAS or thereabouts.

Now, having said the above, I recall folks asking me why I wanted an outside
air temperature gauge. I just wanted to know the temperature, so I also
understand folks wanting to know what the wind is doing.

I learned "variation", in the Air Force; my wife and I both learned
"declination" while working as radar systems engineers. Which is correct so
long as you know what you're talking about? Who cares?

Oh, yeah - reading my flight manual the other day I discovered that an OAT
gauge is mandatory in my glider when carrying water ballast. Go figure.

BTW, using the magnetic compass in a jet is considered an emergency
procedure. At least it was in the 70s...


"Pam Howarth" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hmm...the whiskey (whisky) compass eh? Next you'll be saying why have a
> flight director at all when a couple of pith balls worked so well? The
> LX7007 requires you to fly a couple (or more) of nice concentric circles
> before it can calculate the wind; few thermals, especially in the
> mountains, seem to be nice round columns. You may also have noticed that
> the whiskey compass (and yes I do have one) is pretty useless when banked
> over in a thermal?
> Real wind information is available (Butterfly Vario, Clearnav etc) and I
> think it is valuable but it comes with a multi thousand Euro price tag so
> upgrading my "old" (and perhaps not very reliable) technology is an
> option.
> Your "declination" & "variation" comments are a joke, yes?
>
> At 16:24 15 October 2013, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>Whatever happened to what we old-timers used to call the "whiskey
> compass"?
>>
>>Why would you have to buy a compass module for your flight computer when
>>you
>>(should) have a simple, reliable, cheap magnetic compass on the panel?
>>
>>And, assuming you have a GPS, doesn't ground track work well enough? Do
>>you
>>really need magnetic heading? Don't forget to subtract variation
>>(declination for mon-military types). Oh, that's probably add variation
> if
>>
>>you're in the eastern half of the world.
>>
>>
>>"Charlie Papa" wrote in message
...
>>On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:59:33 PM UTC-4, Pam Howarth wrote:
>>> Does anyone have first hand experience of the LX7007 coupled to the "LX
>>>
>>> Compass module"? Specifically at how good it is at calculating the wind
>>>
>>> direction/speed?
>>>
>>> By itself the LX7007 is less than convincing whilst the Oudie is quite
>>>
>>> hopeless. As LX want �480 just for the "Compass module" I thought
> some
>>>
>>> first hand feedback would be helpful?
>>>
>>> The "money no object" solution seems to be the Butterfly vario, but
> again
>>>
>>> there seems to be little pilot feedback on the web.
>>
>>The LX 7007 is the most cogent argument I have encountered against gun
>>control, - although the collateral damage to the glider might be a
>>balancing
>>argument for elniency.
>>
>>But, if the compass modue functions as well as my 'Most Reliable Partner
> in
>>
>>Glidng" flight computer did, find another solution. For me, it was and is
>
>>the LX 8080.
>>
>>It's fantastic. And, if I were to consider additional options, I would
>>have
>>faith they would work.
>>
>>
>

[Peter Purdie[_3_]]

At 23:30 15 October 2013, jfitch wrote:
>On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:14:32 PM UTC-4, pete purdie wrote:
>
>' And (by user reports) is the best vario on the market bar none.'
>
>That seems like a long stretch. Do you work for them?=20
>
No, I don't work for them. But I do sell them, and all the other varios by
major manufacturers. I haven't met the same level of enthusiasm for
anything else. The difference seems to be that experienced pilots 'know'
what the air is doing, and a vario enhances that information. The ClearNav
vario seems to agree more closely with what a good pilot feels, and makes
centring and maximising climb more efficient. Likewise the instantaneous
wind appears highly accurate - a useful feature particularly flying in
mountains.

I was sufficiently convinced by the feedback that I bought one for my
glider with my own money, and agree with what my customers say.

[[email protected]]

Le mercredi 16 octobre 2013 05:36:56 UTC-4, pete purdie a écrit*:
> At 23:30 15 October 2013, jfitch wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:14:32 PM UTC-4, pete purdie wrote:
>
> >
>
> >' And (by user reports) is the best vario on the market bar none.'
>
> >
>
> >That seems like a long stretch. Do you work for them?=20
>
> >
>
> No, I don't work for them. But I do sell them, and all the other varios by
>
> major manufacturers. I haven't met the same level of enthusiasm for
>
> anything else. The difference seems to be that experienced pilots 'know'
>
> what the air is doing, and a vario enhances that information. The ClearNav
>
> vario seems to agree more closely with what a good pilot feels, and makes
>
> centring and maximising climb more efficient. Likewise the instantaneous
>
> wind appears highly accurate - a useful feature particularly flying in
>
> mountains.
>
>
>
> I was sufficiently convinced by the feedback that I bought one for my
>
> glider with my own money, and agree with what my customers say.

Hi
It is unfortunate that the Flight Computer display is one large size only. A 70%screen,like the picture in the Soaring magazine advertisement, would fit my LS6panel. Any other option?
Regards
Gilles

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:05:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Le mercredi 16 octobre 2013 05:36:56 UTC-4, pete purdie a écrit*:
>
> > At 23:30 15 October 2013, jfitch wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:14:32 PM UTC-4, pete purdie wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >' And (by user reports) is the best vario on the market bar none.'
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >That seems like a long stretch. Do you work for them?=20
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > No, I don't work for them. But I do sell them, and all the other varios by
>
> >
>
> > major manufacturers. I haven't met the same level of enthusiasm for
>
> >
>
> > anything else. The difference seems to be that experienced pilots 'know'
>
> >
>
> > what the air is doing, and a vario enhances that information. The ClearNav
>
> >
>
> > vario seems to agree more closely with what a good pilot feels, and makes
>
> >
>
> > centring and maximising climb more efficient. Likewise the instantaneous
>
> >
>
> > wind appears highly accurate - a useful feature particularly flying in
>
> >
>
> > mountains.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I was sufficiently convinced by the feedback that I bought one for my
>
> >
>
> > glider with my own money, and agree with what my customers say.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> It is unfortunate that the Flight Computer display is one large size only.. A 70%screen,like the picture in the Soaring magazine advertisement, would fit my LS6panel. Any other option?
>
> Regards
>
> Gilles

Yea, get a glider with a bigger panel :)

Seriously, I flew this year with both the CN vario and the LX climb vario (V3) and the sound matches quite well between the two and so does the needle (only climb tested). Very rarely you hear something out of tune. So after flying many hours with both I can say they are pretty close but the LX Vario sounds much more pleasant to the ear. I bet the LX Navigation Vario is the same. It is good we all have difference preferences or life would be very boring.

[jfitch]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:08:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:05:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > Le mercredi 16 octobre 2013 05:36:56 UTC-4, pete purdie a écrit*:
>
> >
>
> > > At 23:30 15 October 2013, jfitch wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:14:32 PM UTC-4, pete purdie wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >' And (by user reports) is the best vario on the market bar none.'
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >That seems like a long stretch. Do you work for them?=20
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > No, I don't work for them. But I do sell them, and all the other varios by
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > major manufacturers. I haven't met the same level of enthusiasm for
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > anything else. The difference seems to be that experienced pilots 'know'
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > what the air is doing, and a vario enhances that information. The ClearNav
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > vario seems to agree more closely with what a good pilot feels, and makes
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > centring and maximising climb more efficient. Likewise the instantaneous
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > wind appears highly accurate - a useful feature particularly flying in
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > mountains.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I was sufficiently convinced by the feedback that I bought one for my
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > glider with my own money, and agree with what my customers say.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi
>
> >
>
> > It is unfortunate that the Flight Computer display is one large size only. A 70%screen,like the picture in the Soaring magazine advertisement, would fit my LS6panel. Any other option?
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Gilles
>
>
>
> Yea, get a glider with a bigger panel :)
>
>
>
> Seriously, I flew this year with both the CN vario and the LX climb vario (V3) and the sound matches quite well between the two and so does the needle (only climb tested). Very rarely you hear something out of tune. So after flying many hours with both I can say they are pretty close but the LX Vario sounds much more pleasant to the ear. I bet the LX Navigation Vario is the same. It is good we all have difference preferences or life would be very boring.

As a simple climb vario - given that the manufacturers are all using functionally identical barometric sensors and that the filtering algorithms are pretty well understood - it would be a surprise if a particular one was "the best bar none". Now, I can't claim to be a pilot with enough experience to "know" what the air is doing (with only 44 years soaring and 30,000 cross country miles I still require a variometer to quickly center a thermal). It would be interesting to see a video of all three brands in the same panel flying through a few bumpy thermals to prove their differences, if there are any. In my mind the differences are more in UI and extended features.

I thought the CV vario used GPS and air data to calculate wind?

[Bryan SQ]

Does anyone have first hand experience of the LX7007 coupled to the "LX
Compass module"? Specifically at how good it is at calculating the wind
direction/speed?


I have been using the LX7007 and the compass module this year and I can report that is appears to work quite well - how well is not easy to say without doing extensive tests. It is useful to be made aware of wind shifts that can indicate convergence, or the best direction to search for wave etc. Obviously the higher the wind strength the more accurate the vector calculation will be, I would be interested to see the results of any testing that has been done?