US-glider guiders only: Article in last Soaring

[GM]

Did anybody else read the article in the October issue of Soaring 'My last dog-fight'? I must have missed the memo but it seems like the US-law enforcement agencies have declared open season on the GA or more specifically glider guiders. First the totally unwarranted arrest in SC and now this incident in FL! In both cases, the involved officers get away without any consequences, well protected by the system. Where are the expressions of outrage or are we cool with that sort of behavior?
Does anyone have a positive experience with 'The Law' in connection with soaring, i.e. being assisted after an off-field landing, etc. he/she can report to off-set these shameful reports?
GM

[Tony[_5_]]

Ive probably had half a dozen very pleasant dealings with local law enforcement during off airport landings. One was after I landed on a road in Iowa. He stayed with me till crew arrived. Another state trooper I'm Iowa stopped by to make sure everything was OK but declined the invitation to return later and help derig the Lark. Another sheriff's deputy in western Kansas was critical in the retrieve. He knew the lady in the house who wouldn't answer the door for me and used her tractor to pull the cirrus out of the soft field.

[[email protected]]

I dun had me a friend years ago what was a CHP here in Cali and what actuly liked flyin' gliders hisself ifin' you can believe that! One day he found out we was doin' auto tows down the highway a piece at this place called Delano an he thought that sounded like a rite lotta fun. . He dun wanted ta' get checked out hisself a doin' that so he picked me up at my house and drove me down there on hwy 99. He was purty comfturble at high speed drivin' from what with spendin' a lotta his time a pursin' people on the highway, an let's just say we got to Delano lickey split! But we was a goin' so fast but what my knees was a knokin' so bad but what I couldn't fly for a while after we dun got there. But all in all I'd rate it a overall positive 'sperience with law enforcement.

Signed
X
GAPA Geezer

[son_of_flubber]

On Monday, October 28, 2013 5:15:36 AM UTC-4, GM wrote:
> Did anybody else read the article in the October issue of Soaring 'My last dog-fight'?

I just called Manny Sousa and he told me that this incident happened in 2011. The article did not mention the date.

[yippee]

Been quite a bit of these with powered aircraft, felony type stops. Guns out pilots dragged out and put on the ground. Happened to the Kings(video course King's) among others. AOPA is now tracking these events.

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

On 10/28/2013 3:15 AM, GM wrote:
> Did anybody else read the article in the October issue of Soaring 'My last
> dog-fight'? I must have missed the memo but it seems like the US-law
> enforcement agencies have declared open season on the GA or more
> specifically glider guiders. First the totally unwarranted arrest in SC and
> now this incident in FL! In both cases, the involved officers get away
> without any consequences, well protected by the system. Where are the
> expressions of outrage or are we cool with that sort of behavior? Does
> anyone have a positive experience with 'The Law' in connection with
> soaring, i.e. being assisted after an off-field landing, etc. he/she can
> report to off-set these shameful reports? GM
>


My reaction was - and remains - deep concern at the failure of "the system" to
hold accountable "beyond reasonable actions" of law officers, when those
actions are highly questionable, almost certainly illegal, "over the top"
efforts to "uphold the law (as these individuals' apparently perceive it)".

Wrong is wrong, regardless of quantity or detail of other accounts of law
officers "doing right" by other glider pilots (including me, several times
over various landouts) noted elsewhere in this thread. Actions typified by
those of officers in Mr. Fleming's and Mr. Sousa's cases serve mostly to
"weaken general respect" for law enforcement, especially when tacitly approved
by "the system's" failing to hold accountable unacceptable actions.

I have - given the facts (in Mr. Fleming's case) and description (from Mr.
Sousa of his encounter) - no reasons to believe any member of the law
enforcement should be proud of the actions of a few in their community.

In my ideal world, these two incidents would be openly scrutinized in the
bright light of public investigation and discussion, so that everyone could
come to their own informed conclusions. Historically, secrecy is a favored
tool of tyrants and dictators, not to mention governments in
general...including ours.

Respectfully,
Bob W.

[GM]

On Monday, October 28, 2013 8:30:21 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Monday, October 28, 2013 5:15:36 AM UTC-4, GM wrote:
>
> > Did anybody else read the article in the October issue of Soaring 'My last dog-fight'?
>
>
>
> I just called Manny Sousa and he told me that this incident happened in 2011. The article did not mention the date.

Thanks for clarifying that, son of flubber! I was looking for a date of this incident in the article but couldn't find one.
GM

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
Tony > wrote:

> Ive probably had half a dozen very pleasant dealings with local law
> enforcement during off airport landings. One was after I landed on a road in
> Iowa. He stayed with me till crew arrived. Another state trooper I'm Iowa
> stopped by to make sure everything was OK but declined the invitation to
> return later and help derig the Lark. Another sheriff's deputy in western
> Kansas was critical in the retrieve. He knew the lady in the house who
> wouldn't answer the door for me and used her tractor to pull the cirrus out
> of the soft field.

The only time I ever had cops get worked up was when I was clocked at 95
mph in a 35 mph zone on Yamaha crotch rocket. Cops thought I was running
when, in reality, I just did not realize they were behind me. I got a
clue when I notice the trees along the road seemed to be flashing blue.
Looked in the rearview and all I could see was about 12 inches square of
a Chrysler police cruiser grill. After we all got stopped, it took the
officers a few minutes to calm down, but eventually they bought my
(true) story that I was just at the end of a long ride and was trying to
catch up to a buddy who had gotten way out ahead of me. Helped that the
officers were both motorcycle guys too.

Have had local law enforcement show up at a few outlandings. The cops
have been more-or-less pleasant, if a not a little bemused by the whole
concept of flying without a motor. Have gotten the usual incredulous
double take when I answered the question of where I took off from and
where I had intended to go. Never had a cop be less than polite and
cordial. Most have been pretty easy going once they figured out there
was no injury or damage. Never had one ask for any ID other than my
driver license. Last time was at the Sports Nats at Chilhowee. An off
duty cop visited me in the soybean field I had landed in. He was mostly
curious and wanted to let me know that the landowner was not home at the
moment, gave me the landowners contact info, and told me he didn't think
the guy would care that I had landed. Then he offered to get me
something to eat and drink. I have been pulled over three times by cops
wanting to know "What's in the weird trailer?" Also got pulled over by a
state trooper in Nebraska while I was towing a homebuilt power plane. I
had two extra engines tied down with it that I was transporting for gas
money. The officer was curious about the plane in general and why there
were three engines. I briefly considered having him on about my little
tri-motor, but decided that honesty is probably the best policy with the
fuzz.

WB
(former scooter trash, now glider trash)

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[Soartech]

>Where are the expressions of outrage or are we cool with that sort of behavior?
>
I am very outraged! I read it again last night and got the feeling it happened a few years ago as S.o.F. confirmed (2011). My thoughts were, if I was this guy and had as much radar evidence as he has then I would be bringing that Sargent to court in a civil suit for endangerment and reckless behavior. He needs a high powered lawyer (who would gladly take this case for an easy split).
Because this story would outrage any good citizen I'd love to see this on some national show like 60 minutes or similar to demonstrate how our law enforcement is becoming way too militant while showcasing soaring as a harmless, intriguing sport.

[son_of_flubber]

The unusual thing about this incident is that the harassed person was in the air and flying a motorglider.

This sort of abuse happens frequently on the ground. NYC even has a "stop and frisk" policy of systematic harassment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_stop-and-frisk_program 684,000 incidents of "stop and frisk" in NYC in 2011.