FLARM, ADS-B, Transponder made easy??

[[email protected]]

Like to fly at both TSA (Dallas - Fort Worth) and Moriarty (ABQ). MY heirs worry more about me hitting an airliner than another glider. Have high end avionics in the Piper (Garmin 750 with ADS-B in and out), but Piper display does not seem like it would help much in a situation like near cloud base with an unlimited height start gate.

I have noticed with ADS-B that as traffic gets close the screen seems to distract me from looking outside.

Did not seem to be any reasonable place to put the portable FLARM in the Libelle.

Seems crazy that we are dealing with three different (co dependent) devices to solve the same low probably problem. Four systems actually if you count looking outside.

Getting the Libelle ready for next season. Help me.

Bill Snead
6W

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote, On 11/10/2013 7:48 AM:
> Like to fly at both TSA (Dallas - Fort Worth) and Moriarty (ABQ). MY
> heirs worry more about me hitting an airliner than another glider.
> Have high end avionics in the Piper (Garmin 750 with ADS-B in and
> out), but Piper display does not seem like it would help much in a
> situation like near cloud base with an unlimited height start gate.
>
> I have noticed with ADS-B that as traffic gets close the screen seems
> to distract me from looking outside.
>
> Did not seem to be any reasonable place to put the portable FLARM in
> the Libelle.
>
> Seems crazy that we are dealing with three different (co dependent)
> devices to solve the same low probably problem. Four systems
> actually if you count looking outside.

Put in a transponder - you don't have to look at it or do anything for
it to work. Your heirs can stop worrying about the airliners.

Put in a PowerFlarm Core (aka "brick"). Set the "alert" range to, say, 5
miles (no more). You don't have to look at it or do anything until it
alerts you to PowerFlarm, ADS-B, or transponder traffic.

Until you get that alert, keep looking outside.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Dave Springford]

But don't turn on your transponder while flying at a contest, or it will cause collision alerts on everyone's flarm who is within a couple of miles of you.

Transponders in contests seriously mess up the usefulness of the Flarm!

[Dave Nadler]

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 2:52:37 PM UTC-5, Dave Springford wrote:
> Transponders in contests seriously mess up the usefulness of the Flarm!

If you use a Mode S transponder like trig and properly configure
your FLARM with ICAO code matching transponder, you will have
NO PROBLEMS.

Don't install archaic Mode C transponders please as these MAY
cause problems (in addition to consuming more power).

[Pat Russell[_2_]]

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:48:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
.... MY heirs worry more about me hitting an airliner than another glider...

Don't you mean "next of kin" rather than "heirs?"

The opinion of your heirs may not be what you think!

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:48:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Like to fly at both TSA (Dallas - Fort Worth) and Moriarty (ABQ). MY heirs worry more about me hitting an airliner than another glider. Have high end avionics in the Piper (Garmin 750 with ADS-B in and out), but Piper display does not seem like it would help much in a situation like near cloud base with an unlimited height start gate. I have noticed with ADS-B that as traffic gets close the screen seems to distract me from looking outside. Did not seem to be any reasonable place to put the portable FLARM in the Libelle. Seems crazy that we are dealing with three different (co dependent) devices to solve the same low probably problem. Four systems actually if you count looking outside. Getting the Libelle ready for next season. Help me. Bill Snead 6W

I looked at how to put PF in my Libelle. The portable is hopeless. The brick should be no particular big deal but I have not yet looked at antenna positions.
It may well be that the best place will be in the fuselage aft of the canopy. The whole thing could go back there and just run the display cable forward.
For a display I think I would go with the LX display as it is likely going to be the easiest to find a place to put it and, from the comments I have heard, is easiet to see.
Glad to see you decided to keep your nice glider.
Good luck
UH

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:48:53 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> Like to fly at both TSA (Dallas - Fort Worth) and Moriarty (ABQ). MY heirs worry more about me hitting an airliner than another glider. Have high end avionics in the Piper (Garmin 750 with ADS-B in and out), but Piper display does not seem like it would help much in a situation like near cloud base with an unlimited height start gate.
>
>
>
> I have noticed with ADS-B that as traffic gets close the screen seems to distract me from looking outside.
>
> Thinking of putting in an Oudie. Can I use the Oudie as the FLARM display? Does ADS-B data ride on transponder RF? Is there any plan to consolidate all these devices into ADS-B? It would seem to me that I fairly low power transmission of GPS position and altitude could solve all the collision problems?

Bill Snead
6W
>
> Did not seem to be any reasonable place to put the portable FLARM in the Libelle.
>
>
>
> Seems crazy that we are dealing with three different (co dependent) devices to solve the same low probably problem. Four systems actually if you count looking outside.
>
>
>
> Getting the Libelle ready for next season. Help me.
>
>
>
> Bill Snead
>
> 6W

[Dave Springford]

You can display the Flarm targets on the Oudie, but you probably want to have another dedicated Flarm display. The Flarm targets on the Oudie are good for situational awareness, but a dedicated Flarm display will be much better for the collision warnings.

If you have panel space, a Flarmview or Butterfly display will do the job. If your panel space is limited, the V7 vario connected to the Flarm and Oudie will give you a superb vario that also doubles as a flarm collision clock display.

[darrylr]

On Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:42:15 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:48:53 AM UTC-6, wrote:
>
> > Like to fly at both TSA (Dallas - Fort Worth) and Moriarty (ABQ). MY heirs worry more about me hitting an airliner than another glider. Have high end avionics in the Piper (Garmin 750 with ADS-B in and out), but Piper display does not seem like it would help much in a situation like near cloud base with an unlimited height start gate.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have noticed with ADS-B that as traffic gets close the screen seems to distract me from looking outside.
>
> >
>
> > Thinking of putting in an Oudie. Can I use the Oudie as the FLARM display? Does ADS-B data ride on transponder RF? Is there any plan to consolidate all these devices into ADS-B? It would seem to me that I fairly low power transmission of GPS position and altitude could solve all the collision problems?
>
>
>
> Bill Snead
>
> 6W
>
> >
>
> > Did not seem to be any reasonable place to put the portable FLARM in the Libelle.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Seems crazy that we are dealing with three different (co dependent) devices to solve the same low probably problem. Four systems actually if you count looking outside.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Getting the Libelle ready for next season. Help me.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Bill Snead
>
> >
>
> > 6W

There are many may threads wasted on this stuff on DUC.

ADS-B data-out rides on Transponder 1090ES (or in the USA on UAT), but getting ADS-B data-out properly installed in any glider is a pain in the ass thanks to the FAA. And it would provide you with limited benefit today, ATC and the airliners can see you fine with a transponder. Just install a Mode-S transponder like Dave says, the Trig TT-22 being my favorite, turn it on don't look at it. ATC will see you, and the airliners with TCAS-II will avoid running into you, that TCAS-II last saftey net is very important. TCAS-II's collision avoidance uses transponder interrogation, you do not need ADS-B data-out for it to work.

None of this is as hard as it is sometimes made out. To avoid airliners and fast jets (and some GA traffic) install a transponder, everything else install a PowerFLARM. Wanting "one box to do all" is actually a just horrible idea, if Flarm had to build a RTCA compliant/FAA approved device, it would never have gotten any product to market. Keeping electronic gizmos we need in gliders as as separate as possible from regulatory quagmires is a great plan.

Darryl

[Dave Springford]

100% agree Darryl!

Determine what is your biggest collision threat. If it is large transport aircraft (20 seats +) and biz jets that carry TCAS, install a Trig Mode S.

If it is glider on glider, such as contests or ridges or mountains, install a flarm.

If it is both, install both! There is no one size fits all solution.

For GA, it is a draw which system works best. Personally, I'd rather see them, than rely on them seeing me. So that means PowerFlarm for me.

[Ramy]

I should point out that leaving your transponder on in a contest or gaggle does NOT make PowerFlarm useless as some believe. Mode C alert and flarm alerts look and sound completely different. It is easy to ignore mode C alerts in a thermal, they are not too intrusive, you will not confuse them with the long loud collision alarm and red blinking screen that a flarm collision alert produces. So please do not turn off your transponder under any circumstances.

Ramy