Training aircraft recommendations

[Benjamin Gawert]

Since my knowledge about the different civilian aircraft models is somewhat
limited I'd need some hints. For pilot training I'm looking for aircrafts
that fullfils these requirements:

- retractable tricycle landing gear
- single piston or turboprop engine (high performance)
- tandem seat configuration with canpoy
- stick controlled
- left-hand throttle
- IFR capable
- allowed in the US for flight training use

Maybe someone here can give me some recommendations as to which aircraft
models would fit to these requirements.

Benjamin

[BTIZ]

T-34.. Turbo Prop model would be T-34C

Or... the Pilatus PC-7

BT

"Benjamin Gawert" > wrote in message
...
> Since my knowledge about the different civilian aircraft models is
somewhat
> limited I'd need some hints. For pilot training I'm looking for aircrafts
> that fullfils these requirements:
>
> - retractable tricycle landing gear
> - single piston or turboprop engine (high performance)
> - tandem seat configuration with canpoy
> - stick controlled
> - left-hand throttle
> - IFR capable
> - allowed in the US for flight training use
>
> Maybe someone here can give me some recommendations as to which aircraft
> models would fit to these requirements.
>
> Benjamin
>

[C J Campbell]

"Benjamin Gawert" > wrote in message
...
> Since my knowledge about the different civilian aircraft models is
somewhat
> limited I'd need some hints. For pilot training I'm looking for aircrafts
> that fullfils these requirements:
>
> - retractable tricycle landing gear
> - single piston or turboprop engine (high performance)
> - tandem seat configuration with canpoy
> - stick controlled
> - left-hand throttle
> - IFR capable
> - allowed in the US for flight training use
>

In the US you can use any aircraft you want for flight training. However,
you will not find aircraft such as you described generally considered to be
trainers. In fact, most flight schools would think you are nuts.

Try starting out in something a little more reasonable (and insurable) and
working your way up.

[Benjamin Gawert]

C J Campbell wrote:

>> Since my knowledge about the different civilian aircraft models is
>> somewhat limited I'd need some hints. For pilot training I'm looking
>> for aircrafts that fullfils these requirements:
>>
>> - retractable tricycle landing gear
>> - single piston or turboprop engine (high performance)
>> - tandem seat configuration with canpoy
>> - stick controlled
>> - left-hand throttle
>> - IFR capable
>> - allowed in the US for flight training use
>>
>
> In the US you can use any aircraft you want for flight training.
> However, you will not find aircraft such as you described generally
> considered to be trainers. In fact, most flight schools would think
> you are nuts.
>
> Try starting out in something a little more reasonable (and
> insurable) and working your way up.

I already have a flying experience in something smaller (i.e. C-172, Arrow
and Seneca) and even some faster aircrafts. And I have some personal reasons
for looking for an aircraft with the above properties.

Benjamin

[Benjamin Gawert]

BTIZ wrote:

> T-34.. Turbo Prop model would be T-34C
>
> Or... the Pilatus PC-7

Thank You! Especially the T-34's seem to be what I'm looking for.

Benjamin

[Cecil Chapman]

> And I have some personal reasons
> for looking for an aircraft with the above properties.

'Personal reasons' ???? How intimate a disclosure would it be to tell what
kind of aircraft you would like to fly.... Man ,,, you're creeping me
out..... :-/

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[Cecil Chapman]

..... oops... I meant to add "and why?".....

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[Michael]

"Benjamin Gawert" > wrote
> Since my knowledge about the different civilian aircraft models is somewhat
> limited I'd need some hints. For pilot training I'm looking for aircrafts
> that fullfils these requirements:
>
> - retractable tricycle landing gear
> - single piston or turboprop engine (high performance)
> - tandem seat configuration with canpoy
> - stick controlled
> - left-hand throttle
> - IFR capable
> - allowed in the US for flight training use
>
> Maybe someone here can give me some recommendations as to which aircraft
> models would fit to these requirements.

Airplanes such as you describe are not normally used for civilian
flight training, and are not common in the civilian fleet. If you
must use such an airplane, I suggest the T-34. It is a surplus
military trainer, but available used on the civil market. Be aware,
there are some killer AD's in the works.

Michael

[Benjamin Gawert]

Cecil Chapman wrote:

>> And I have some personal reasons
>> for looking for an aircraft with the above properties.
>
> 'Personal reasons' ???? How intimate a disclosure would it be to
> tell what kind of aircraft you would like to fly.... Man ,,, you're
> creeping me out..... :-/

It's not just what I _want_ to fly, it's a bit more complicated and it also
has something to do with my job. As I said I already flew standard aircrafts
but they simply don't fit the needs for my training requirements.

Benjamin

[Benjamin Gawert]

Michael wrote:

> Airplanes such as you describe are not normally used for civilian
> flight training, and are not common in the civilian fleet. If you
> must use such an airplane, I suggest the T-34. It is a surplus
> military trainer, but available used on the civil market. Be aware,
> there are some killer AD's in the works.

Thanks for Your answer! Yes, I think the T-34 or T-34C would be the way to
go.

Benjamin

[gatt]

"Cecil Chapman" > wrote in message
news:lpbhc.24557

> > And I have some personal reasons
> > for looking for an aircraft with the above properties.
>
> 'Personal reasons' ???? How intimate a disclosure would it be to tell
what
> kind of aircraft you would like to fly.... Man ,,, you're creeping me
> out..... :-/

Yeah. Sign of the times. Don't say you don't need to learn to land it or
you'll be hearing helicopters.

-c

[gatt]

"Benjamin Gawert" > wrote in message news:c63jnl$7jui8$2@ID-

> Thanks for Your answer! Yes, I think the T-34 or T-34C would be the way to
> go.

Plus it's a beautiful airplane!

-c

[BTIZ]

the "killer AD's" refer to wing spar attachments and such... I think the
T-34 lost last season in TX was a possible spar attach failure.

Cost of repair could ground the aircraft permanently.

BT

"Benjamin Gawert" > wrote in message
...
> Michael wrote:
>
> > Airplanes such as you describe are not normally used for civilian
> > flight training, and are not common in the civilian fleet. If you
> > must use such an airplane, I suggest the T-34. It is a surplus
> > military trainer, but available used on the civil market. Be aware,
> > there are some killer AD's in the works.
>
> Thanks for Your answer! Yes, I think the T-34 or T-34C would be the way to
> go.
>
> Benjamin
>

[Greg Copeland]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:35:45 -0700, BTIZ wrote:

> the "killer AD's" refer to wing spar attachments and such... I think the
> T-34 lost last season in TX was a possible spar attach failure.
>
> Cost of repair could ground the aircraft permanently.
>
> BT
>
> "Benjamin Gawert" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Michael wrote:
>>
>> > Airplanes such as you describe are not normally used for civilian
>> > flight training, and are not common in the civilian fleet. If you
>> > must use such an airplane, I suggest the T-34. It is a surplus
>> > military trainer, but available used on the civil market. Be aware,
>> > there are some killer AD's in the works.
>>
>> Thanks for Your answer! Yes, I think the T-34 or T-34C would be the way to
>> go.
>>
>> Benjamin
>>

Last I heard, those planes were compliant to all ADs. Is that not true?

[Michael]

Greg Copeland > wrote
> Last I heard, those planes were compliant to all ADs. Is that not true?

No, it's not. None of the T-34's that lost a wing were AD compliant.
More importantly, none were privately owned. All belonged to these
'weekend warrior' operations, meaning they were rode hard and put up
wet.

The one that crashed in Houston recently was scheduled to have the AD
performed, and thus should have been restricted to 2 gees. Camera
film indicates that it was passing a plane in a turn, on the outside.
The plane on the inside of the turn was puling 5 gees.

Despite this, the old AD has been ruled insufficient, and the new AD
will likely be a killer.

Michael

[Greg Copeland]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:58:11 -0700, Michael wrote:

> Greg Copeland > wrote
>> Last I heard, those planes were compliant to all ADs. Is that not true?
>
> No, it's not. None of the T-34's that lost a wing were AD compliant.
> More importantly, none were privately owned. All belonged to these
> 'weekend warrior' operations, meaning they were rode hard and put up
> wet.
>
> The one that crashed in Houston recently was scheduled to have the AD
> performed, and thus should have been restricted to 2 gees. Camera
> film indicates that it was passing a plane in a turn, on the outside.
> The plane on the inside of the turn was puling 5 gees.
>
> Despite this, the old AD has been ruled insufficient, and the new AD
> will likely be a killer.
>

Wow. Hard to believe that an operation like that would not of
placed prioity on complying with AD's.

Thanks.

[Big John]

Benjamin

One came unglued just north of Houston a couple of months ago.

Nice guy and his air combat student were killed.

Big John


On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:37:57 +0200, "Benjamin Gawert" >
wrote:

>Michael wrote:
>
>> Airplanes such as you describe are not normally used for civilian
>> flight training, and are not common in the civilian fleet. If you
>> must use such an airplane, I suggest the T-34. It is a surplus
>> military trainer, but available used on the civil market. Be aware,
>> there are some killer AD's in the works.
>
>Thanks for Your answer! Yes, I think the T-34 or T-34C would be the way to
>go.
>
>Benjamin