Invitiation to the end of the IRS

[Don Tabor]

Rally for America

How about making April 15th just another day?

American businesses will spend more just on the cost of compliance
with the IRS code than we spend on the war on terror, and we do it
EVERY year,
with no end in sight.

Our current tax code is fair to no one, cripples our manufacturers in
competition in the world market, and rips the country apart with class
warfare.

There is a better way.

On May 1st, thousands of grassroots supporters will stand in
solidarity to promote the FairTax System. Admission is free and
breakfast will be served, so come join us from 8 AM to Noon at the
Chesapeake Convention Center located at 900 Greenbrier Circle,
Chesapeake, Virginia 23320. (CPK, ORF) Transportation can be arranged
from ORF or CPK to the event.

You will hear Neal Boortz speak about the FairTax and learn how you
can be a part of the effort to scrap the current tax system and
replace it with one that is fair to everyone, simple in compliance,
easily enforced, even for the underground economy and bring clarity to
the true cost of government.

For more information, see www.Fairtax.org
or call 1-800-FAIRTAX ext 110

[Peter Duniho]

"Don Tabor" > wrote in message
om...
> [political agenda crap snipped]

Wow. You made absolutely NO attempt to even PRETEND this was on-topic
somehow.

Here, why don't I start posting all of MY political agenda crap to the
newsgroup. Maybe everyone else ought to too.

Yeah, that would work really well...

[Otis Winslow]

How is switching to a tax on consumption going to help? We already have
sales taxes.
If you don't buy much .. you don't pay much tax. It would be too hard to
enforce.
The answer is the flat tax. Just like Soc Sec .. EVERYONE pays the same
percent of their income. Period. No deductions. No sliding scale. No cutoff.
Nothing. If you made $2000 last year you pay the same
percent of your income as the guy who made $2 million. Handled through
payroll deduction.
The problem is that CPAs, tax attorneys and everyone else involved in
handling the
current nightmare tax system would never let it happen. Their PACs would be
paying off
every congress critter out there to prevent it.



"Don Tabor" > wrote in message
om...
> Rally for America
>
> How about making April 15th just another day?
>
> American businesses will spend more just on the cost of compliance
> with the IRS code than we spend on the war on terror, and we do it
> EVERY year,
> with no end in sight.
>
> Our current tax code is fair to no one, cripples our manufacturers in
> competition in the world market, and rips the country apart with class
> warfare.
>
> There is a better way.
>
> On May 1st, thousands of grassroots supporters will stand in
> solidarity to promote the FairTax System. Admission is free and
> breakfast will be served, so come join us from 8 AM to Noon at the
> Chesapeake Convention Center located at 900 Greenbrier Circle,
> Chesapeake, Virginia 23320. (CPK, ORF) Transportation can be arranged
> from ORF or CPK to the event.
>
> You will hear Neal Boortz speak about the FairTax and learn how you
> can be a part of the effort to scrap the current tax system and
> replace it with one that is fair to everyone, simple in compliance,
> easily enforced, even for the underground economy and bring clarity to
> the true cost of government.
>
> For more information, see www.Fairtax.org
> or call 1-800-FAIRTAX ext 110

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Otis Winslow" > wrote in message
.. .
> How is switching to a tax on consumption going to help? We already have
> sales taxes.
> If you don't buy much .. you don't pay much tax. It would be too hard to
> enforce.
> The answer is the flat tax. Just like Soc Sec .. EVERYONE pays the same
> percent of their income. Period. No deductions. No sliding scale. No
cutoff.
> Nothing. If you made $2000 last year you pay the same
> percent of your income as the guy who made $2 million. Handled through
> payroll deduction.
> The problem is that CPAs, tax attorneys and everyone else involved in
> handling the
> current nightmare tax system would never let it happen. Their PACs would
be
> paying off
> every congress critter out there to prevent it.

The problem with the flat tax is it keeps the IRS...the worst agency since
the Gestapo.

[Jay Honeck]

> American businesses will spend more just on the cost of compliance
> with the IRS code than we spend on the war on terror, and we do it
> EVERY year,
> with no end in sight.

Man, that's for sure. I just paid over $1000 for my corporate taxes, for
the second year in a row. Until last year it was running about $600 per
year.

That is money that SHOULD have gone to my employees, or into landscaping, or
remodeling another suite -- but instead I must pay it out to some
bean-counter who pretends to understand the tax code.

And this is all ON TOP OF the hotel tax I pay.

....And the state sales tax.

....And FICA.

....And Medicare.

....And federal withholding.

....And FUTA.

....And State Unemployment.

The truly sad thing is that I do all the taxes except the year-end stuff
myself, without difficulty. But my year-end tax return is so complex that
I can't possibly understand it (The return itself is over two inches thick.
The supporting documentation is over a foot thick.), and don't even pretend
to read it. I just sign on the bottom line, and fork over the dough.

It's criminal, and it must be fixed, soon.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John Gaquin]

"Otis Winslow" > wrote in message

> How is switching to a tax on consumption going to help? We already have
> sales taxes.

> The answer is the flat tax. Just like Soc Sec .. EVERYONE pays the same
> percent of their income. Period. No deductions. No sliding scale. No
cutoff.

I disagree. A flat tax does not gather in criminal income. You still rely
on the taxpayer to report income. A fed consumption tax applies to all --
criminals and law-abiders alike. Drug dealers and wise-guys buy boats and
cars and clothes and stuff just like everyone else, and more so in many
cases. By including criminal income, you'd probably triple the available
taxable pool.

> The problem is that CPAs, tax attorneys and everyone else involved in
> handling the
> current nightmare tax system would never let it happen. Their PACs would
be
> paying off
> every congress critter out there to prevent it.

The real issue is that Congress would fight it tooth and nail. Without the
IRS code, Congress loses their ability to try to force behavior from certain
groups, and to dabble in social engineering. The IRS code is what gives
Congress the power to hurt their adversaries, and they won't give it up
without a fight.

[Richard Hertz]

"Otis Winslow" > wrote in message
.. .
> How is switching to a tax on consumption going to help? We already have
> sales taxes.
> If you don't buy much .. you don't pay much tax. It would be too hard to
> enforce.
> The answer is the flat tax. Just like Soc Sec .. EVERYONE pays the same
> percent of their income. Period. No deductions. No sliding scale. No
cutoff.
> Nothing. If you made $2000 last year you pay the same
> percent of your income as the guy who made $2 million. Handled through
> payroll deduction.

Yeah, and both systems work great...
You must be a student or a starving artist or something.


> The problem is that CPAs, tax attorneys and everyone else involved in
> handling the
> current nightmare tax system would never let it happen. Their PACs would
be
> paying off
> every congress critter out there to prevent it.
>




>
>
> "Don Tabor" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Rally for America
> >
> > How about making April 15th just another day?
> >
> > American businesses will spend more just on the cost of compliance
> > with the IRS code than we spend on the war on terror, and we do it
> > EVERY year,
> > with no end in sight.
> >
> > Our current tax code is fair to no one, cripples our manufacturers in
> > competition in the world market, and rips the country apart with class
> > warfare.
> >
> > There is a better way.
> >
> > On May 1st, thousands of grassroots supporters will stand in
> > solidarity to promote the FairTax System. Admission is free and
> > breakfast will be served, so come join us from 8 AM to Noon at the
> > Chesapeake Convention Center located at 900 Greenbrier Circle,
> > Chesapeake, Virginia 23320. (CPK, ORF) Transportation can be arranged
> > from ORF or CPK to the event.
> >
> > You will hear Neal Boortz speak about the FairTax and learn how you
> > can be a part of the effort to scrap the current tax system and
> > replace it with one that is fair to everyone, simple in compliance,
> > easily enforced, even for the underground economy and bring clarity to
> > the true cost of government.
> >
> > For more information, see www.Fairtax.org
> > or call 1-800-FAIRTAX ext 110
>
>

[vincent p. norris]

> But my year-end tax return is so complex that
>I can't possibly understand it

I hardon the radio recently that the IRS sent their "experts," posing
as ordinary consumers, to get tax advice from various IRS offices.

The advice they got was wrong in something like 39 out of 43 cases.

vince norris

[Jim Fisher]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> And this is all ON TOP OF the hotel tax I pay.
>
> ...And the state sales tax.
>
> ...And FICA.
>
> ...And Medicare.
>
> ...And federal withholding.
>
> ...And FUTA.
>
> ...And State Unemployment.

Oh, but Jay, thank goodness your employees don't have to pay most of that
stuff. You do! No sweat off their backs, right?

--
Jim Fisher

[Jim Fisher]

"Otis Winslow" > wrote in message
> The answer is the flat tax.

I used to be in favor of that but the problem is that a flat tax is, in
fact, a regressive tax. Yeah, I know everyone pays the same percentage but
$200.00 a year to someone making $10,000.00 a year is still a lot while
$2000.00 a year to someone making a hundred grand really isn't that much.

A national sales tax is a much more-better idea. You buys lots of stuff?
You pays The Man. This would also encourage folks to save instead of
spending more than they make. . . . Aw hell, I wasn't gonna even reply to
this silly thread but couldn't help it. I'm going to bed before I get wound
up.

--
Jim Fisher

[Greg Copeland]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:19:15 -0500, Jim Fisher wrote:

> "Otis Winslow" > wrote in message
>> The answer is the flat tax.
>
> I used to be in favor of that but the problem is that a flat tax is, in
> fact, a regressive tax. Yeah, I know everyone pays the same percentage but
> $200.00 a year to someone making $10,000.00 a year is still a lot while
> $2000.00 a year to someone making a hundred grand really isn't that much.
>
> A national sales tax is a much more-better idea. You buys lots of stuff?
> You pays The Man. This would also encourage folks to save instead of
> spending more than they make. . . . Aw hell, I wasn't gonna even reply to
> this silly thread but couldn't help it. I'm going to bed before I get wound
> up.

Well, even with a flat tax, the IRS wouldn't be going anywhere. At best,
it would be greatly reduced in size. For those that are below the poverty
line, other ammendments, refunds and services can be provided to offset
anything they paid as part of a flat tax program. In fact, many of these
services are already available today. I've heard this argument used time
and time again. It never holds water. A flat tax system is by far, the
most fair and easiest methods of collecting taxes.

Even if I had to pay any extra two or three hunded dollars a year in
taxes, it would easily be offset by the amount that I already pay in
having my taxes done. Last I heard, if a flat tax program were to be
implemented, the average American would pay +-500 dollars within what they
currently pay. That means some of us would actually do better. Others
would do slight worse. In either case, not having to pay for taxes
services would certainly help to offset the difference.

[VideoGuy]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> > But my year-end tax return is so complex that
> >I can't possibly understand it
>
> I hardon the radio recently that the IRS sent their "experts," posing
> as ordinary consumers, to get tax advice from various IRS offices.
>
> The advice they got was wrong in something like 39 out of 43 cases.
>
> vince norris

And take it from someone who had to learn the HARD way- Even if you call
the IRS and speak to their "experts", and follow the advice; if it's wrong,
and you get audited, YOU- NOT the idiot Federal Employee who screwed you -
are the one who pays the penalties!

Don't EVER believe ANYTHING anybody from the IRS tells you except maybe "we
are incompentent- we are here until retirement- there's nothing you can do".

Gary - won't make THAT mistake a THIRD time - Kasten

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Otis Winslow" > wrote in message
> > The answer is the flat tax.
>
> I used to be in favor of that but the problem is that a flat tax is, in
> fact, a regressive tax. Yeah, I know everyone pays the same percentage
but
> $200.00 a year to someone making $10,000.00 a year is still a lot while
> $2000.00 a year to someone making a hundred grand really isn't that much.

The flat tax (which I'm against) doesn't even kick in until you make like
$30K.


> A national sales tax is a much more-better idea. You buys lots of stuff?
> You pays The Man. This would also encourage folks to save instead of
> spending more than they make. . . . Aw hell, I wasn't gonna even reply to
> this silly thread but couldn't help it. I'm going to bed before I get
wound
> up.

Good idea. :~)

BTW, I heard on the radio that something like one-fourth of households now
pay NO taxes whatsoever (aside from local)...so who are the parasites?

[Jay Honeck]

> Oh, but Jay, thank goodness your employees don't have to pay most of that
> stuff. You do! No sweat off their backs, right?

That's the truly sad thing about our tax system -- and also its brilliance.

If each worker had to pony up their taxes at the end of each week, in the
form of a check to the Gubmint, there would be an immediate and violent
revolution in this country.

However, because the Gubmint has been smart enough (devious enough?) to get
the employers to pay it BEFORE the worker receives his check, it's
"painless" and transparent. Out of sight, out of mind.

When someone mentions a job that pays "$40K per year," I always try to
remind them that it's really much closer to $20K, after they've paid off
their taxes.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Well, even with a flat tax, the IRS wouldn't be going anywhere.

The IRS isn't the enemy. They are a necessary and legal part of our
government.

The enemy is Congress, who keeps passing absurdly more intricate and
inscrutable tax laws, which must then be incorporated and interpreted by the
IRS.

Congress is supposedly made up of our representatives, but I haven't seen
much evidence of that in my lifetime.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article <daOhc.2226$IW1.320205@attbi_s52>, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

> When someone mentions a job that pays "$40K per year," I always try to
> remind them that it's really much closer to $20K, after they've paid off
> their taxes.

you might also mention that it can cost the employer $50,000 to $60,000.

--
Bob Noel

[Don Tabor]

"Otis Winslow" > wrote in message >...
> How is switching to a tax on consumption going to help? We already have
> sales taxes.
> If you don't buy much .. you don't pay much tax. It would be too hard to
> enforce.
> The answer is the flat tax.

Currently, AOL users cannot post directly to usenet, so I am replying
through Google.

The flat tax is better than the current system, but the FairTax has
significant advantages, especially in cost of compliance and
progressivity.

See

http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/materials/flatax.html


Don

[Otis Winslow]

"Richard Hertz" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> You must be a student or a starving artist or something.
>

Ha ha .. no .. thankfully not.

[Otis Winslow]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
>> The flat tax (which I'm against) doesn't even kick in until you make like
> $30K.
>
>
> BTW, I heard on the radio that something like one-fourth of households now
> pay NO taxes whatsoever (aside from local)...so who are the parasites?
>


Everyone should pay something. From the first dollar. There should be no
parasites.

As for a consumption tax .. it's a great idea. But would be a night mare to
enforce and I think the resources required to chase it down and enforce
it would offset the reduction in govt size from implementation of a flat
tax. People would just pay cash and barter to avoid it like they avoid
sales
tax.

However .. both of these methods are far superior to the current one.

[Trent Moorehead]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
> The real issue is that Congress would fight it tooth and nail. Without
the
> IRS code, Congress loses their ability to try to force behavior from
certain
> groups, and to dabble in social engineering. The IRS code is what gives
> Congress the power to hurt their adversaries, and they won't give it up
> without a fight.

John,

You've hit the nail on the head with that one. Couldn't say it much better.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:7dOhc.2204$_L6.387680@attbi_s53...
> > Well, even with a flat tax, the IRS wouldn't be going anywhere.
>
> The IRS isn't the enemy. They are a necessary and legal part of our
> government.

They may be legal but they're certainly not necessary, especailly their
Gestapo mentaility ("We're always right even when were wrong")

>
> The enemy is Congress, who keeps passing absurdly more intricate and
> inscrutable tax laws, which must then be incorporated and interpreted by
the
> IRS.

Which plays the bully with such relish.

>
> Congress is supposedly made up of our representatives, but I haven't seen
> much evidence of that in my lifetime.

True enough but every time some Rep tries to reign in the IRS they get
stepped on.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Otis Winslow" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >> The flat tax (which I'm against) doesn't even kick in until you make
like
> > $30K.
> >
> >
> > BTW, I heard on the radio that something like one-fourth of households
now
> > pay NO taxes whatsoever (aside from local)...so who are the parasites?
> >
>
>
> Everyone should pay something. From the first dollar. There should be no
> parasites.
>
> As for a consumption tax .. it's a great idea. But would be a night mare
to
> enforce

No moreso than sales tax already is. Even more, there is much less that can
be manipulated via "interpretations".

> and I think the resources required to chase it down and enforce
> it would offset the reduction in govt size from implementation of a flat
> tax. People would just pay cash and barter to avoid it like they avoid
> sales tax.

Only commodities (primarily) can be bartered.

One last thought: The US existed for it's first 125 years without an IRS,
and with only excise taxes. We started to rapidly lose our liberties and
privacy when the Income Tax and the IRS came into being in 1913 (just in
time for World War One).

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Trent Moorehead" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Gaquin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The real issue is that Congress would fight it tooth and nail. Without
> the
> > IRS code, Congress loses their ability to try to force behavior from
> certain
> > groups,
(See below)
> > and to dabble in social engineering. The IRS code is what gives
> > Congress the power to hurt their adversaries, and they won't give it up
> > without a fight.
>
> John,
>
> You've hit the nail on the head with that one. Couldn't say it much
better.

They also lose the abiltiy to court favor (and favorS) through use of the
tax code (special breaks) as awell as regulations (stomping a competitor or
adversary).

[Wdtabor]

>
>They also lose the abiltiy to court favor (and favorS) through use of the
>tax code (special breaks) as awell as regulations (stomping a competitor or
>adversary).
>

So, help us get the FairTax passed. Volunteer at the rally or at
www.FairTax.com

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG